Yes, I do agree the updates to this map have been great. I really like the layout, it feels a bit more balance than the old one. Also the lighting in those latest screenshots is fantastic.
o The addition of (temporarily named) Break Room.
o The now missing connection at the back of Central Processing to Ventilation Access (debating re-adding that; seems like access to Ventilation hive from Central Processing would be so easy though).
o Changes to a ton of vents.
o Marine Start now having two separate entrances instead of a pass-by corridor entrance.
o Sewer hive room layout.
o Purification Station room layout.
o Stability room layout.
simply looking at both mini maps i can clearly see an improvement over level design that would favor ns2, the vent redesign alone makes much more sense. thanks for the quick reply and i eagerly await this map.
AdambeanCardiff, South WalesJoin Date: 2005-06-03Member: 53038Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
edited April 2013
Just echoing my comments from the Steam workshop page here. You already answered two of my concerns so I won't bother writing them again.
I like the direction you've taken on this remake by converting the central "double" location to a tech point. I think more of the classic map remakes should take this approach to fit better with NS2's game play. All of the ports should really be doing this -- porting doesn't have to mean a spicy copypasta, which you don't appear to be doing at all 5 tech points is a very important factor of NS2's game play. I feel ns2_veil has missed a trick on this point, and it seems other ports in progress are doing the same.
The only thing I'm not keen on is that though you intend to rename "Marine Start" to something more fitting, you also intend on keeping this as a fixed marine start point. Part of NS2's charm is a much higher randomization of scenarios by having marines start at a random location as well as aliens, though this is entirely your choice. ns2_veil seems to be enjoyed with marines in a fixed location too. There are probably just a minority that feel the same as me on this point anyway.
Liking the progress so far Flaterectomy When it's done I'm sure this would make an excellent addition to the official maps.
Amazing game. We had such a great game yesterday, remembers of ns1. Maybe ns2 gameplay makes it different but i found it really balanced and fun. Finish the art and release it, its a good, balanced and fun fun fun map.
I had my first play through on this map today! It played really, really well. I hope you're still giving this map top priority because we could really use a map that plays well and not only looks shiny.
One small thing is that you have a looong snipe-range in upper sewer(?) looking south to sewer hive.
I had my first play through on this map today! It played really, really well. I hope you're still giving this map top priority because we could really use a map that plays well and not only looks shiny.
One small thing is that you have a looong snipe-range in upper sewer(?) looking south to sewer hive.
At the moment, I'm having a break from Caged to finish my co_portals hive room (and avoid burning out on Caged), but this hive room is a relatively small area that I expect to complete pretty soon. My current work-in-progress version of Caged has seen some more work than the current public build, and with a few more changes I think I can release a new version not long after I resume work on it.
One of the major changes you'll see in the next release is that I am wanting to test having Central Processing be a double res node location rather than a tech point again (and in that case I'll likely reconnect the 'backdoor' of Central Processing towards Ventilation Access again). I do lean towards the current build with a tech point in there as it's more in line with NS2 gameplay, but I owe it to the original version (before they reduced that to a 1 res node location anyway) to at least try it. If a few weeks of testing shows that the change doesn't improve the map, then I'll revert it back to a tech point location.
I am assuming you mean the distance between Upper Sewer and Lower Sewer? (The location names aren't very well placed at the moment; I'll try and fix that for the next version as well.) In the current build it seems to have been less of a problem than it was before, but I am open to address the issue again. Did you encounter specific issues in the game you played other than general sniper-ranginess?
Yes, I ment Upper to Lower Sewer. It was just me not remembering the room name. As I've only had one playthrough on this map I don't really have that much more critique to give. I'm hoping to find populated servers with this map on it so that I could play it some more.
I've said before in this post that not every map needs to be like summit, and I still think that to a degree, but like you say it's more in line with the current NS2 gameplay. Without the middle tech point I suspect a lot of the games played on a competitive level will look pretty much the same, seeing as you will have an easier time defending your 2nd tech point as marines in Generator than you would in the Sewer tech point. Partially due to the enormeous hallway, and the layout of that tech point. A tech point in the middle of the map feels like it could spice this up a bit, and make for more varied play.
FlaterectomyNetherlandistanJoin Date: 2005-02-03Member: 39643Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
Meep. Due to the removal of a few textures in the latest NS2 build my ready room and Auxiliary Generator are now missing their floors. I'll see if I can speed up the next build, but for now you'll just have to cope. :P
FlaterectomyNetherlandistanJoin Date: 2005-02-03Member: 39643Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
I'm planning to work on Caged a lot this weekend to get a new test build out (with double res instead of TP in Central Processing). And what better way to start such a weekend than by playing a round of Caged for 141 minutes? My eyes, they bleed.
FlaterectomyNetherlandistanJoin Date: 2005-02-03Member: 39643Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
I published a new build of Caged on sunday.
CHANGELOG (9 june 2013)
o Turned Central Processing into a double res node location instead of a tech point. This might be temporary - I just want to test it for at least a few weeks.
o Re-added the connection between Central Processing and Ventilation Access
o Further detailing of Verily, Unto Satan's Butthole
o Renamed Verily, Unto Satan's Butthole
o Removed the death drop from Stability
o Added some cover in the the Generator tech point to prevent sniping from the Stability-side entrance
So the map is currently a 4 TP map again. After seeing the map played for months, I now know that it works very well with a TP in Central Processing, and now I want to see how it plays with double res nodes in there. I cannot stress enough that this isn't necessarily a permanent change.
Here's the progress video for this release, with some footage from sunday's map test starting at around 6:43!
it was a good game, that said monitoring RT node was a broken so it wasn't representative. Poor marines.
I love the visually polished area that i wont name :P
You know I'm a caged fan boy, buuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrtttttt.....
Its still quite hard to push out from central. It was also quite hard to counter the many bile-bomb rushes, there's just a lot of approaches (with short line of sight) to central, especially now vent is connected. Perhaps moving the power node into the actual room and removing the window sections would give gorges less cover to launch their projectiles all over my structures.
Have you got any hard statistics on the win ratio? my impression is that its still alien friendly, securing forward bases in the alien side of the map can be quite a challenge. Aliens seem to have a lot vents and hidey holes to bypass marine check points maybe this is the cause? removing the top section in that one hallway might be nice. Also the vent in lower gen is slightly annoying with the bridge covering it.
I tried to do a simplified timings diagram for numb skulls like me to use (check oblivious's thread), I make the mean travel time from RT to RT 19.43. compared with summits 17.33... I do feel some corridors are a bit too long.
We really need to see some comp players scrim it out on this map. You have some pro contacts right!?!
Keep at it man
FlaterectomyNetherlandistanJoin Date: 2005-02-03Member: 39643Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
Monitoring RT was broken? That's strange. I just tested it on a listen server and it keeps working fine - not sure what happened on the server.
Alas, no win/loss statistics. I can try moving the power node to the back wall inside the room (directly across from where it currently sits).
I've been considering moving the vent entrance in Auxiliary Generator onto the diagonal wall next to its current location. I might do that for the next build.
If Mendasp had trouble getting teams to do PCWs on Veil_test, then I have to be pessimistic about my chances with Caged. :P
LokiJoin Date: 2012-07-07Member: 153973Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
edited June 2013
Aye that RT was fooked non of us could drop it even tho we could the game before so not sure what was happening there (no cloaked drifters either I checked). The most recent stats on ns2 stats (tho 22days old) seem to indicate marines 55% vs aliens 45%. Loved the video and please dont get rid of all the hiding spots otherwise I wont be able to troll aliens and make skulk trains!!!!!!!!
But maybe move the powernode into central it might help marines in there a little bit
Im going to start testing some of these maps hopefully compettive my problem with this one is quite obvious its way to marine favored look at the double node room marines can sit in southwest corner and hold it not only that satans Butthole has direct route to all alien rt locations if they spawn sewer ... the biggest issue for this map competively is the sillyness of trying to establish a 3rd res node. there needs to be vents into central if ur going to put a double res node there otherwise marines will probably be uncontested.
Im going to start testing some of these maps hopefully compettive my problem with this one is quite obvious its way to marine favored look at the double node room marines can sit in southwest corner and hold it not only that satans Butthole has direct route to all alien rt locations if they spawn sewer ... the biggest issue for this map competively is the sillyness of trying to establish a 3rd res node. there needs to be vents into central if ur going to put a double res node there otherwise marines will probably be uncontested.
The game we played on Sunday aliens spawned Sewer and won. We talked a lot about central, the double res verses tech point, and how much of central holds the choke points. I found it interesting how difficult it was to harass the north half of the map, but we still won by rushing MS & taking it. Either way the map will change, that's the point of it being gray box.
Check the video above for our thoughts - sorry I talked over so much of it. My voice sounds just annoying, but hopefully only to myself.
Comments
simply looking at both mini maps i can clearly see an improvement over level design that would favor ns2, the vent redesign alone makes much more sense. thanks for the quick reply and i eagerly await this map.
I like the direction you've taken on this remake by converting the central "double" location to a tech point. I think more of the classic map remakes should take this approach to fit better with NS2's game play. All of the ports should really be doing this -- porting doesn't have to mean a spicy copypasta, which you don't appear to be doing at all
The only thing I'm not keen on is that though you intend to rename "Marine Start" to something more fitting, you also intend on keeping this as a fixed marine start point. Part of NS2's charm is a much higher randomization of scenarios by having marines start at a random location as well as aliens, though this is entirely your choice. ns2_veil seems to be enjoyed with marines in a fixed location too. There are probably just a minority that feel the same as me on this point anyway.
Liking the progress so far Flaterectomy
At the moment, I'm having a break from Caged to finish my co_portals hive room (and avoid burning out on Caged), but this hive room is a relatively small area that I expect to complete pretty soon. My current work-in-progress version of Caged has seen some more work than the current public build, and with a few more changes I think I can release a new version not long after I resume work on it.
One of the major changes you'll see in the next release is that I am wanting to test having Central Processing be a double res node location rather than a tech point again (and in that case I'll likely reconnect the 'backdoor' of Central Processing towards Ventilation Access again). I do lean towards the current build with a tech point in there as it's more in line with NS2 gameplay, but I owe it to the original version (before they reduced that to a 1 res node location anyway) to at least try it. If a few weeks of testing shows that the change doesn't improve the map, then I'll revert it back to a tech point location.
I am assuming you mean the distance between Upper Sewer and Lower Sewer? (The location names aren't very well placed at the moment; I'll try and fix that for the next version as well.) In the current build it seems to have been less of a problem than it was before, but I am open to address the issue again. Did you encounter specific issues in the game you played other than general sniper-ranginess?
Just ran around, really like what you've textured. Do want Caged.
CHANGELOG (9 june 2013)
o Turned Central Processing into a double res node location instead of a tech point. This might be temporary - I just want to test it for at least a few weeks.
o Re-added the connection between Central Processing and Ventilation Access
o Further detailing of Verily, Unto Satan's Butthole
o Renamed Verily, Unto Satan's Butthole
o Removed the death drop from Stability
o Added some cover in the the Generator tech point to prevent sniping from the Stability-side entrance
So the map is currently a 4 TP map again. After seeing the map played for months, I now know that it works very well with a TP in Central Processing, and now I want to see how it plays with double res nodes in there. I cannot stress enough that this isn't necessarily a permanent change.
Here's the progress video for this release, with some footage from sunday's map test starting at around 6:43!
Edit: Also, I should link this: http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/comment/2122366/#Comment_2122366 It doesn't have all the routes and timings as of this new, just released version (glares at flat....
Butttt, can you pretty please add a difficult way to get into the vent from purification to ventilation XD
I'm glad you liked it!
Add a difficult way? You want it to be harder for aliens to get in there on the Purification side??
Alas, no win/loss statistics. I can try moving the power node to the back wall inside the room (directly across from where it currently sits).
I've been considering moving the vent entrance in Auxiliary Generator onto the diagonal wall next to its current location. I might do that for the next build.
If Mendasp had trouble getting teams to do PCWs on Veil_test, then I have to be pessimistic about my chances with Caged. :P
But maybe move the powernode into central it might help marines in there a little bit
The game we played on Sunday aliens spawned Sewer and won. We talked a lot about central, the double res verses tech point, and how much of central holds the choke points. I found it interesting how difficult it was to harass the north half of the map, but we still won by rushing MS & taking it. Either way the map will change, that's the point of it being gray box.
Check the video above for our thoughts - sorry I talked over so much of it. My voice sounds just annoying, but hopefully only to myself.