I'm not a fan of double res points, not unless they're exposed as hell (like mine-shaft), its gonna end up too much like veil if you do that and different is good.... I think the central area needs a little bit of a design rethink- mainly the routes in and the positioning of the TP, RT and PN.
Maybe next week you could submit two gray boxed builds?!
Oh and do the live stream on saturday so I can watch you butcher your map! :P
I would say that kind of decision would be down to what kind of experience you want the map to be. Do you want a struggle over being able to unlock end game tech or would you prefer both sides to be able to reach end game tech and have the conflict be over who gets there first?
Also, going to very interested to watch your stream, hope to leach some techniques from you :P
FlaterectomyNetherlandistanJoin Date: 2005-02-03Member: 39643Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
edited March 2013
Hai folks, just wanted to you all to know I'm going to try streaming some mapping in a few minutes, so if you're interested you can come and have a look.
Interesting workflow - slow, steady and selfconfident . I am not just sure how you manage not to loose yourself in all that geometry visible at once.
I have noticed that you dont use keybinds for most used tools. I strongly recomend you to try that, it will speed your work 300%. For example, I am jusing QWERTY for Select, Move, Rotate, Transform etc. And 1,2,3 .. for Line, Rectangle, Circle etc.
Interesting workflow - slow, steady and selfconfident . I am not just sure how you manage not to loose yourself in all that geometry visible at once.
I have noticed that you dont use keybinds for most used tools. I strongly recomend you to try that, it will speed your work 300%. For example, I am jusing QWERTY for Select, Move, Rotate, Transform etc. And 1,2,3 .. for Line, Rectangle, Circle etc.
I've been putting off creating more layers for locations (the area I was working on in the cast is part of my Upper Sewer layers, but isn't actually that location any more) until there's better layer functionality in the editor. I've grown used to it, though.
I have a bad habit of sometimes using the key bindings, and then switching to buttons again. (That's the default key bindings, not your localized key approach.) I may try and teach myself to use them.
I only played this map once and as comm (no FPS walkthrough yet), so not too much to say. Here are my first impressions.
- some power nodes are really too exposed. For example the one in top left TP, right around the corner of a LOOONG hallway with no RT close which would mean at least you have a base that would warn you of an incoming attack. It's just the power node and right around the corner is enemy territory.
the center node also seems to be attackable from all sides and longer distances
- the top center RT (monitoring) can be sniped from the vent with not much for Marines to do (saw a Lerk harassing it for some time)
- your map seems closer to the final geometry than the usual greybox. Some features might look nice, but aren't really gameplay relevant. For example: the sides of the top right TP (generator I believe) have these protrusions along the walls, but you can't really hide behind them/use them as cover as a Skulk (they're too small for that), so they aren't really there I don't know if my impression is right and how the original map looked in this regard, just a thought. I believe making the geometry as gameplay relevant as possible improves a map.
The new build was a massive improvement! simple changes but drastic effects.
The fact skulks couldn't flank you at every point made a much more enjoyable game. Maintenance still felt quite hard to defend at a marine, Maybe shorten that route from start to it.
Like you say we'll have to play a few more games but it felt really good today.
I second what Howser said, the map really threw some nice suprises at me, I was fighting a lerk in a room and suddenly he just flip flopped around a lot of geometry I haven't seen in previous tests Keep up the great work mate !
The overall gameplay seems nice although I've only played it two times and haven't explored the whole map through yet. I haven't played the original map also so I don't know how true to the original it is.
It felt a bit too narrow at some hallways. Nice placement of the vents, they seem to be always at the right place for the aliens to ambush and outmaneuver the marines. Perfect for those hit and run tactics.
I think you can reach the draw distance limit when looking from the back of the satan's butthole to the marine start.
that was a bad game for the aliens, the comm kept doing mistakes after mistakes :P he drop the hive in the sewer after i said there is a phase gate their
Do I really sound that loud and annoying? Oh dear.
Was good to see a video of what you'd been upto, as the only changes I saw the whole match were those in the ready room and finding a vent missing when I ran for it!
You edited my voice in the video! I know I sound more manly than that in real life.... :P
watching the video reminded me how involved I got in that game, I was really enjoy myself; that is a very good sign. perhaps I shouldn't swear so much, when people record in the future. But I'll blame that on the immersion factor! looking forward to next Sunday, I vote for a double play session as I suspect the layout is face approaching its final state.
*spell check* Fast
FlaterectomyNetherlandistanJoin Date: 2005-02-03Member: 39643Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
@MisterYoon I didn't quite like the architecture in that screenshot myself, though I am considering reintroducing something similar to those pillars in another area of the map.
xtcmenJoin Date: 2004-04-20Member: 28040Members, Squad Five Blue
edited April 2013
Flat, I wouldn't try and break up visibility too much in that area. In general, the area's around can and should be wide open and have long LOS points. This help prevents an alien team from stomping the marines too hard outside their base.
Veil Topographical / Skylights is a good example. Long, open LOS but they fit well.
FlaterectomyNetherlandistanJoin Date: 2005-02-03Member: 39643Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
edited April 2013
I unfortunately have to break it up there, as the length of that area (1792 units) will mean players disappear from view if they're at the far end of it. With these pipes blocking it, there will be a max of about 1056 units worth of alien shootery. (EDIT: That's in a straight line. You can shoot further away if you angle yourself so you can fire at the opposing stairs.)
FlaterectomyNetherlandistanJoin Date: 2005-02-03Member: 39643Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
I may have to do some more masking, as my vis blocker pipes are pretty see-through, but I'm pleased with the direction. (Disclaimer: walls and floor from Butthole towards Upper Sewer are still untouched and need work.)
Can't wait for this map to be fully textured! It'll be so great. I'm already enjoying fits of nostalgia looking at these screenshots, I think caged was one of the first maps I played in NS.
Also hope this map will be made official later on, it definitely has the potential for it!
Your work always impresses me flat and this time is no exception! Caged is a real success thanks to all your hard work, and I know that many look forward to playing the map during the sunday meet.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
Your work looks great, nice to see you take so much care about the balance of the map. I will cross my fingers that you have this ready for the next custom map cup before season 3(around august/september). :P
o The addition of (temporarily named) Break Room.
o The now missing connection at the back of Central Processing to Ventilation Access (debating re-adding that; seems like access to Ventilation hive from Central Processing would be so easy though).
o Changes to a ton of vents.
o Marine Start now having two separate entrances instead of a pass-by corridor entrance.
o Sewer hive room layout.
o Purification Station room layout.
o Stability room layout.
Comments
Maybe next week you could submit two gray boxed builds?!
Oh and do the live stream on saturday so I can watch you butcher your map! :P
Also, going to very interested to watch your stream, hope to leach some techniques from you :P
www.twitch.tv/flaterectomy
EDIT: Stream is over, video here: www.twitch.tv/flaterectomy/b/374547371
EDIT: Stream is over, video here: www.twitch.tv/flaterectomy/b/376096570
I have noticed that you dont use keybinds for most used tools. I strongly recomend you to try that, it will speed your work 300%. For example, I am jusing QWERTY for Select, Move, Rotate, Transform etc. And 1,2,3 .. for Line, Rectangle, Circle etc.
I have a bad habit of sometimes using the key bindings, and then switching to buttons again. (That's the default key bindings, not your localized key approach.) I may try and teach myself to use them.
- some power nodes are really too exposed. For example the one in top left TP, right around the corner of a LOOONG hallway with no RT close which would mean at least you have a base that would warn you of an incoming attack. It's just the power node and right around the corner is enemy territory.
the center node also seems to be attackable from all sides and longer distances
- the top center RT (monitoring) can be sniped from the vent with not much for Marines to do (saw a Lerk harassing it for some time)
- your map seems closer to the final geometry than the usual greybox. Some features might look nice, but aren't really gameplay relevant. For example: the sides of the top right TP (generator I believe) have these protrusions along the walls, but you can't really hide behind them/use them as cover as a Skulk (they're too small for that), so they aren't really there
The fact skulks couldn't flank you at every point made a much more enjoyable game. Maintenance still felt quite hard to defend at a marine, Maybe shorten that route from start to it.
Like you say we'll have to play a few more games but it felt really good today.
It felt a bit too narrow at some hallways. Nice placement of the vents, they seem to be always at the right place for the aliens to ambush and outmaneuver the marines. Perfect for those hit and run tactics.
I think you can reach the draw distance limit when looking from the back of the satan's butthole to the marine start.
Why removing this!? This is just beyond fantastic.
Was good to see a video of what you'd been upto, as the only changes I saw the whole match were those in the ready room and finding a vent missing when I ran for it!
Keep up the good work!
watching the video reminded me how involved I got in that game, I was really enjoy myself; that is a very good sign. perhaps I shouldn't swear so much, when people record in the future. But I'll blame that on the immersion factor! looking forward to next Sunday, I vote for a double play session as I suspect the layout is face approaching its final state.
*spell check* Fast
Also, these are the little gems you get when replicating bugs discovered during our Sunday night map tests:
minor bugs left really... get finishing it!
Veil Topographical / Skylights is a good example. Long, open LOS but they fit well.
Also hope this map will be made official later on, it definitely has the potential for it!
As you can see, the most major differences are:
o The addition of (temporarily named) Break Room.
o The now missing connection at the back of Central Processing to Ventilation Access (debating re-adding that; seems like access to Ventilation hive from Central Processing would be so easy though).
o Changes to a ton of vents.
o Marine Start now having two separate entrances instead of a pass-by corridor entrance.
o Sewer hive room layout.
o Purification Station room layout.
o Stability room layout.