ARCs really need to make a noise. A really loud noise. The more there are, the louder they should be.
I like this. I don't think it would change the gameplay significantly, because arc pushes don't rely on surprise (since you can't keep them secret against good aliens anyway). And if it gives the aliens a "holy poop we're about to get BONED" panic attack to hear an approaching arc train, well, so much the better.
Aliens need a game ender. If Bile Bomb has got to be nerfed down like this, they need something else. "Everyone save for an Onos explosion" doesn't cut it.
Frothybeverage and Vigilantia freaking newbs. Ever heard of onos bar on docking and central drilling on mineshaft? Shall I go on? Arc’s don’t even have to get close to the hive or where aliens can see them cause they can shoot thru walls.
I think what you're not considering is that to take out an alien hive at the same speed two gorges bilebombing, using arcs, is much longer res for res. Bile was simply too effective or too cheap res wise, they felt it was too effective and left cost alone. Hence the reduction. Plus biling weapons is a nice trade off.
Aliens need a game ender. If Bile Bomb has got to be nerfed down like this, they need something else. "Everyone save for an Onos explosion" doesn't cut it.
How about Bile Bomb plus teamwork?
Yes, instead of two gorges you might have to rush three. The horror.
I find whips actually, when upgraded with that little known bombard. At last time of using, it rapid fires a hunk of burning death at the exo. This may of have changed with the update, but I still think It may be a good counter. Oh yeah, and they are still strong if hit by the full force of an exo.
The best counter to an exo rush is still hit anywhere else however ... :P
Except they're so inaccurate with such a large falloff and such a long cooldown that Exos can mow them down before their second fling. Plus, it's a huge Tres sink that could go to other things (that won't work).
EDIT: If, out of the many times I've done it, just once three bombard whips hitting an Exo at the same time actually killed it, that'd be sweet. 90 res to kill an Exo? I'll take it. But it never works. They never do their full damage (usually less than half) because of the falloff, and Exos can mow them down before their 6 second cooldown finishes. I've even tried enzyming them. Once, I even tried four or five whips.
Coincidentally, this entire defense is knocked out by a couple of ARCs.
Even that doesn't work when there are a few shotguns or Exos sitting in that base mowing everything down. One Onos isn't enough of a damage soaker to save the rest of your team from going down. Also, I don't bile a base without a teammate, ever. I'll yell at skulks, lerks, or fades nearby. If I can get an Onos, I'm a happy Gorge.
TBH, I'm ok with the damage nerf to BB. However, I really don't like the range nerf. If UWE is going to make maps with fing huge ceilings that allow JPs to fly around and be a PitA to kill, then aliens should be able to utilize this height to their advantage in some way. As it is now, I have to look at the freaking ceiling to bile something that is 10 feet away....
The counter to BB is to go kill the gorge. If marines can't figure that out, then it's not cause for a nerf. You should always have at least 1 guy that is in your base/near a PG to defend.
one fun controversial idea is that if marines are too buff right now, make it so the armory doesnt repair armor, only welders, just like NS1. people will still armory hump, but a xeno skulk should be able to go to town
one fun controversial idea is that if marines are too buff right now, make it so the armory doesnt repair armor, only welders, just like NS1. people will still armory hump, but a xeno skulk should be able to go to town
Sorry but, I hate this idea so much.
Marines are forced into so much busy work... I just don't like the idea of forcing them standing around doing MORE WELDING!
I'm still able to get a power node down to flashing when I expend all of my energy as a single adrenaline/carapace gorge (and I land most of those bombs on target). Given 3 - 4 more seconds, I can still take a power node down if I'm not shot, or if the comm doesn't nanoshield, whereas in 239 I was able to single handedly kill a power node with some energy left over to spare.
I don't mind the bile bomb nerfs, I still find it to be effective.
Even if I'm only half paying attention, I can hear the pitter patter of an incoming gorge from 1-2 rooms away.
Fail gorge rush, spending unnecessary time / covering unnecessary distance as a defenseless gorge.
one fun controversial idea is that if marines are too buff right now, make it so the armory doesnt repair armor, only welders, just like NS1. people will still armory hump, but a xeno skulk should be able to go to town
I firmly agree with this statement. Armories not repairing armor leads to more teamwork between marines inherently, which is how they are meant to be played. It also allows the Hit-and-Run tactics that are supposed to be used by most lifeforms viable. AND it makes cracking a base with the other tools avialable.
The patch where this was tested lead to some of the best teamwork on the marine side with minimal effort.
On topic:
I feel that the BB changes were a good thing. Having one ability be the answer to ALL marine tech but JPs seemed bland, however, I do feel that the aliens other tools need to be increased in usefulness (possible fix above )
one fun controversial idea is that if marines are too buff right now, make it so the armory doesnt repair armor, only welders, just like NS1. people will still armory hump, but a xeno skulk should be able to go to town
I firmly agree with this statement. Armories not repairing armor leads to more teamwork between marines inherently, which is how they are meant to be played. It also allows the Hit-and-Run tactics that are supposed to be used by most lifeforms viable. AND it makes cracking a base with the other tools avialable.
The patch where this was tested lead to some of the best teamwork on the marine side with minimal effort.
On topic:
I feel that the BB changes were a good thing. Having one ability be the answer to ALL marine tech but JPs seemed bland, however, I do feel that the aliens other tools need to be increased in usefulness (possible fix above )
Because the thing I just LOVE doing as marines is welding Exos, what better way to make NS2 fun than having that happen for the entire game. Also, it's yet ANOTHER piece of busywork for the marines to do as well as a res sink for the marines again. It'd be no less tedious than not allowing armor to heal from the Hive, crags or regen.
Besides, if we started pulling this stuff out because X side is too buff, why didn't we do this when Aliens were slanted towards winning.
Not healing armor might reduce the effectiveness of putting armories EVERYWHERE a little bit which would be a welcome change, not to mention having the marines needing to buy welders uses a little of their res, which helps with things like shotguns and exos.
Power, phase, armory is crazy hard to take down without a onos or a big team push.
Not healing armor might reduce the effectiveness of putting armories EVERYWHERE a little bit which would be a welcome change, not to mention having the marines needing to buy welders uses a little of their res, which helps with things like shotguns and exos.
Power, phase, armory is crazy hard to take down without a onos or a big team push.
Because it's supposed to be hard to take down because there are players defending it? If you kill the players, all it takes is 2 skulks to hump the phase from both entrances and insta-kill marines phasing through. Besides, I can make the same argument for crags. Alien commanders can put down more crags than armories due to khammander getting more tres than marines. If it's equivalent skilled and # of marines and equivalent skilled and # aliens, marines SHOULD win at the armory/phase.
In the ARC vs Bile Bomb argument, I'm surprised no ones talking about how the Marines can have an unlimited amount of ARCs. The ARCs are controlled by one player, so the rest of the Marines can attack other points or defend the ARC's (as Exo's, JP's, shotgunners, etc), and they can be shielded.
Has anybody suggest a (maybe third hive upgrade) bouncing bile bomb? You'd have to aim the angle right to get it to bounce where you want, but it would add that little bit of extra range for late game gorging...
Comments
I like this. I don't think it would change the gameplay significantly, because arc pushes don't rely on surprise (since you can't keep them secret against good aliens anyway). And if it gives the aliens a "holy poop we're about to get BONED" panic attack to hear an approaching arc train, well, so much the better.
How about Bile Bomb plus teamwork?
I think what you're not considering is that to take out an alien hive at the same speed two gorges bilebombing, using arcs, is much longer res for res. Bile was simply too effective or too cheap res wise, they felt it was too effective and left cost alone. Hence the reduction. Plus biling weapons is a nice trade off.
Yes, instead of two gorges you might have to rush three. The horror.
@halfofaheaven
Rush xeno before level 3 armor, then you'll hear marines crying because it's op. Trust me.
Except they're so inaccurate with such a large falloff and such a long cooldown that Exos can mow them down before their second fling. Plus, it's a huge Tres sink that could go to other things (that won't work).
EDIT: If, out of the many times I've done it, just once three bombard whips hitting an Exo at the same time actually killed it, that'd be sweet. 90 res to kill an Exo? I'll take it. But it never works. They never do their full damage (usually less than half) because of the falloff, and Exos can mow them down before their 6 second cooldown finishes. I've even tried enzyming them. Once, I even tried four or five whips.
Coincidentally, this entire defense is knocked out by a couple of ARCs.
Even that doesn't work when there are a few shotguns or Exos sitting in that base mowing everything down. One Onos isn't enough of a damage soaker to save the rest of your team from going down. Also, I don't bile a base without a teammate, ever. I'll yell at skulks, lerks, or fades nearby. If I can get an Onos, I'm a happy Gorge.
The counter to BB is to go kill the gorge. If marines can't figure that out, then it's not cause for a nerf. You should always have at least 1 guy that is in your base/near a PG to defend.
Sorry but, I hate this idea so much.
Marines are forced into so much busy work... I just don't like the idea of forcing them standing around doing MORE WELDING!
I don't mind the bile bomb nerfs, I still find it to be effective.
Fail gorge rush, spending unnecessary time / covering unnecessary distance as a defenseless gorge.
I firmly agree with this statement. Armories not repairing armor leads to more teamwork between marines inherently, which is how they are meant to be played. It also allows the Hit-and-Run tactics that are supposed to be used by most lifeforms viable. AND it makes cracking a base with the other tools avialable.
The patch where this was tested lead to some of the best teamwork on the marine side with minimal effort.
On topic:
I feel that the BB changes were a good thing. Having one ability be the answer to ALL marine tech but JPs seemed bland, however, I do feel that the aliens other tools need to be increased in usefulness (possible fix above
Because the thing I just LOVE doing as marines is welding Exos, what better way to make NS2 fun than having that happen for the entire game. Also, it's yet ANOTHER piece of busywork for the marines to do as well as a res sink for the marines again. It'd be no less tedious than not allowing armor to heal from the Hive, crags or regen.
Besides, if we started pulling this stuff out because X side is too buff, why didn't we do this when Aliens were slanted towards winning.
Power, phase, armory is crazy hard to take down without a onos or a big team push.
Because it's supposed to be hard to take down because there are players defending it? If you kill the players, all it takes is 2 skulks to hump the phase from both entrances and insta-kill marines phasing through. Besides, I can make the same argument for crags. Alien commanders can put down more crags than armories due to khammander getting more tres than marines. If it's equivalent skilled and # of marines and equivalent skilled and # aliens, marines SHOULD win at the armory/phase.