Balance Tweak Mod - Your suggestions
Assassin_wm
Join Date: 2004-01-30 Member: 25754Members
Join Date: 2004-01-30 Member: 25754Members
Hi All.
I'm working on a balance mod for NS2. I've got some ideas regarding what I want to change, but I would like to know what the community would like to see.
So far I've tweaked the following:
-Bile Bomb
--Damage greatly reduced
--Functions as a debuff, greatly increasing damage done by normal attacks.
-Parasite (2 tweaks)
--Removed time out (Still removable by armoury and Medpacks (considering removing that medpack behaviour))
--Works on Buildings
-Damage caused by Alien bites (1 subtle tweak)
--Damage caused by alien bites is gently increased with the hive number.
-Crags
--They now Heal buildings using their own health as a reservoir. Heals players as before. They heal at the same rate, but take damage equivalent to the amount they heal other buildings for. When below 15% health, they stop healing. They can't heal each other.
What I have on my list:
-Sentries
--Can shoot bile bombs out of the air
-Nano Shield (1 tweak)
--Too strong? Can't be healed whilst Nano shielded/healing is half as effective?
-Medpacks (1 tweak)
--A bit too cheap/fast. Spammable
-Phasegates (1 change, not really a tweak)
--Am I think only one who keeps walking into them by accident?
--Allow commander to change phase gate linkage.
-Power supply (1 tweak in regards to reliance on power nodes)
--Make the battery function as a battery for devices nearby. Charges up from powernode. Runs out if used for too long. Slow to charge. More buildings near the battery, the faster the battery will run out. 1 battery per room. Battery cannot support sentries and buildings.
So, with that list in mind... What have I missed?
I'm working on a balance mod for NS2. I've got some ideas regarding what I want to change, but I would like to know what the community would like to see.
So far I've tweaked the following:
-Bile Bomb
--Damage greatly reduced
--Functions as a debuff, greatly increasing damage done by normal attacks.
-Parasite (2 tweaks)
--Removed time out (Still removable by armoury and Medpacks (considering removing that medpack behaviour))
--Works on Buildings
-Damage caused by Alien bites (1 subtle tweak)
--Damage caused by alien bites is gently increased with the hive number.
-Crags
--They now Heal buildings using their own health as a reservoir. Heals players as before. They heal at the same rate, but take damage equivalent to the amount they heal other buildings for. When below 15% health, they stop healing. They can't heal each other.
What I have on my list:
-Sentries
--Can shoot bile bombs out of the air
-Nano Shield (1 tweak)
--Too strong? Can't be healed whilst Nano shielded/healing is half as effective?
-Medpacks (1 tweak)
--A bit too cheap/fast. Spammable
-Phasegates (1 change, not really a tweak)
--Am I think only one who keeps walking into them by accident?
--Allow commander to change phase gate linkage.
-Power supply (1 tweak in regards to reliance on power nodes)
--Make the battery function as a battery for devices nearby. Charges up from powernode. Runs out if used for too long. Slow to charge. More buildings near the battery, the faster the battery will run out. 1 battery per room. Battery cannot support sentries and buildings.
So, with that list in mind... What have I missed?
Comments
Fortunately there's space enough for more than one balance mod
Kinda hard to judge the change notes, when the actual changes aren't noted.
I've not looked at the Alien economy yet. That's on my list of things to add to my list.
I'll edit my first post with the changes I've done and changes I intend to do.
--Damage greatly reduced
--Functions as a debuff, greatly increasing damage done by normal attacks.
Really like this change, a proper nerf to bile bomb while also receiving a buff that gives incentive for teamwork.
-Parasite (2 tweaks)
--Removed time out (Still removable by armoury and Medpacks (considering removing that medpack behaviour))
--Works on Buildings
Not sure if the timeout change was necessary, just not understanding the reasoning behind that.
-Damage caused by Alien bites (1 subtle tweak)
--Damage caused by alien bites is gently increased with the hive number.
A very clever change! I like this one. I always thought that leap is easily the best upgrade for a skulk, and that Xenocide is not used frequently enough to be considered a buff to late-game skulks. This will help them scale properly.
-Sentries
--Can shoot bile bombs out of the air
Overpowered! Haha no really, a very cool idea, I'd be interested to see how it works in-game.
-Nano Shield (1 tweak)
--Too strong? Can't be healed whilst Nano shielded/healing is half as effective?
Nano Shield isn't great, mostly because of the resource cost. How long does it last, for 5 resources? It also requires a 2nd com chair, so it cannot be used until the marines have managed to capture a second tech point and need to start pushing out.
-Medpacks (1 tweak)
--A bit too cheap/fast. Spammable
Not sure about too cheap, considering the state of marine economy. It's just so easy to take out extractors as a skulk.
-Phasegates (1 change, not really a tweak)
--Am I think only one who keeps walking into them by accident?
Not I!
-Power supply (1 tweak in regards to reliance on power nodes)
--Make the battery function as a battery for devices nearby. Charges up from powernode. Runs out if used for too long. Slow to charge. More buildings near the battery, the faster the battery will run out. 1 battery per room. Battery cannot support sentries and buildings.
I'm debating if this is my favorite change or not. I've always hated the idea of a separate battery, but I love the idea of buildings themselves being able to store power and be temporarily available even after the power goes down. To me, that would be a pure genius change.
Well done sir!
- Parasite changes, I'm all for it.
- I've been pondering the idea of a battery upgrade for single structures as well. Thought about maybe adding a 5-10 res "battery" research tab for every structure. One could then for instance research the battery on vital structures such as a pg, an obs and/or ip, which could then still function for say 15 seconds after the power goes down. It would buy the marines some more time to counter/recover from a power node rush.
- I think medpacks are allright. But I feel nanoshield should apply only to structures and possibly exos.
Thanks for the kind words!
The parasite change is because, as far as I've seen, it's not used very often. I really like the risk reward of going back to base to remove the parasite, against pressing on. It also opens up an interesting avenue for tactics, allowing parasited marines to trick aliens by purposely going the wrong way.
I'll look into the med pack thing again. Although perhaps the addition of thrown grenades would help with the resource extractor issue?
My percieved issue with Bile Bomb is the gorge acting like a lone wolf and running at primary bases. I was hoping to encourage more teamwork with the gorge without minimising its effectiveness. Infact, the bile bomb functioning like this will allow buildings to be taken down faster if the Aliens work together.
My concern with this is that there's little reason to not do it. I like the idea of a dedicated building because it does allow the aliens a recourse; destroy the node and the battery. It also means that the comm needs to be intelligent about where they place the battery; too many buildings and it will only last a matter of seconds.
Personally, I think lone gorges are a viable harrassment strategy. Marines have the means to react, and a lone gorge is an easy target anyway. The problem is how fast multiple gorges can stack damage, imo.
About the battery upgrade I was going on about, these would still cost res, so while it would indeed be foolish not to upgrade at least one vital structure in your base (there would be little reason not to build an additional power supply as well), you'd still have to make choices on how often to spend that res. The trick would be to find a cost so that upgrading batteries on every single structure in every room you expand to would be very inefficient use of res, while still providing the marines with a useful fail-safe option against a power node rush. Sure, a dedicated building as you described could achieve thesame thing, but I feel like marines don't really need another building to be built up and clutter bases, while aliens don't really need another building to chomp on. So I'm more inclined to tweak with an upgrade option.
(Note: Neither medpacks nor Armory will be able to remove parasites from buildings for obvious reasons. I suggest making them removable by welder)
- Bile-Bomb change: Change it to debuff with mild damage OR allow it to be destroyable by sentries. Both of them together are too much. For the record I like the debuff idea better.
-Alien bite scaling with number of Hives. I am not great fan of this. I would rather buckle to popular demand and reintroduce Focus upgrade (slower attack speed/far higher damage).
-Cant really comment on Phase Gate, Medpack or Nano Shield tweaks as you didn't really said what are you tweaking in those instances outside of some vague hints.
Overall I like those changes as they are relatively... sane and directly address some of the existing issues in the game.
Would you mind if i suggest if you're greatly reducing damage you also make bile slow things down? Like marines move slightly slower, armouries take slightly longer to refill health/ammo etc.
Walking into them by accident, spinning round and jumping back through them, getting confused, spinning, stumbling back through them, spinning, panicking, spinning, going through and spinning, spinning, going through and through and through and endless spinning, and then vomiting on my keyboard. Then looking at the screen, dying from a skulk bite, then vomiting on my keyboard again.
Every time I need to go through a phase gate a shudder of dread and horror trickles down my spine.
That's quite an interesting idea. I will keep that in mind!
Understood, I don't think the parasite change is broken or anything, just wondering.
And, oh yes, hand grenades please!
Than take the GL-attachment for the rifle for this. The model and animation exists and from its size it make sens that it can only store 1 grenade.
Interesting Idea... The range would have to be quite short though, the arc is pretty important for thrown grenades...
Seeing as aliens are more powerful race, give the marines an extra player or two. You can see my original post (and developer response) in this thread, and I posted in the modding forum and received some modding advice in this thread.
For me I'd also like to see the EXO have health. Right now, did you know the EXO is the *only* unit or structure in the entire game of *any kind* not to have health? (Even ARCs and MACs have health, and they're just chunks of metal, as are buildings - which have health too.) Since there is a marine inside an EXO, how about he gets the 100 health that the marine has? Seeing how painfully easy it is to kill EXOs this small buff might help to balance things out.
The only other thing that is really destroying games right now is the inane power node mechanic. Since it's probably too big a task to overhaul it, how about making power nodes a lot harder to kill so that aliens will actually choose to attack other structures unless they are ending a game and they can afford to throw a lot of players at it. IMHO, no game should end because of one person attacking a power node. It is a team game right?
I LOVE the biobomb change. Right now 2 gorges can take down a marine base usually before the commander even get the alarm. And some times 1-2 marine cant even take care of 2 gorges before they unload all their energy due to higher health and biobomb being a ranged attack! Your change makes it so that you cant just mass gorge instead you have to get at least 1 other life form. Skulks have low hp and easy to shoot when they are biting power. Other life form to do good damage also require close attach and thus easy to shoot. Since they cost significantly more than just another gorge it decrease the amount of suicide power node rush.
However to properly test things you cant change too many things at the same time!
DO NOT allow turret to shoot down bio. because then I will always build 1 turret at base for 10 res and I can never be biobombed. Maybe make a upgrade so they can be 50% resistant or something LATER ON AFTER YOU TEST OUT THE BIOBOMB Change
DO NOT change powernode until AFTER biobomb change.
The sentry change will likely only be able to shoot every other bile bomb, and a clever gorge could avoid it. The sentry chance also feeds into the battery idea; you can't use a battery for sentries and as a backup power source, so the comm will have the weigh up the pros and cons of each option.
Just have to say, *Mind Blown*
How about each sentry reduces effectiveness of each bile bomb by a third. i.e. all three need to hit it for it to be zero. Pointing all three at one side leaves it vulnerable, so even having 1-2 reducing bilebomb effectiveness for a short time is worth it. So bile bombing a pack of sentries will take about 1/3 longer if you attack from the side which only one sentry faces the gorge.
The sentry-bile bomb is the only change i really like. Balance should introduce single variables at a time. Adding too many at once does not really allow you to measure how each is contributing. Some variables may be dependent on others you introduce. Making several mods that introduce a single factor. And each server can select which they would like to add.
Recalling what Savant has said in BigTracers balance thread, and I'm paraphrasing: When Voogru made a mod that allowed armories to recover health in NS1. I don't know what else he included but that was just a single factor that was remembered/kept/adapted.
Problem with single tweaks is that, a number of tweaks can feed into each other and create a much more balanced system. If single tweak mods were available then there's nothing to stop a Marine preferring admin to choose the marine buffs and alien nerfs, and leave all the marine nerfs and alien buffs. Game balance is an ecosystem, especially in a game like this.
I would avoid a cooldown (hidden or otherwise). The bigger problem with medspam imo is its synergy with nanoshield as they both fill the same role. If anything is needed beyond that a simple bump to 2 TRes per med should be all that is needed.
You could explore a HoT with them but that has other implications on combat as well though it may work with nanoshield existing in its current form a little better.
I'm reluctant to change medpacks to a heal over time, simply because that's a fairly hard hit. 2 res per medpack is probably as far as I'd go. Maybe make it heal slightly more for that though.
Nano shields is on my radar; probably going to either make a nano'd rine unhealable, or ( as someone suggested) make it so that plain marines can't be nano'd.
I'd think that's the prime difference between Alien and Marine Comm at the moment. Marine comm can directly intervene in a battle's outcome, but only if they're skilled enough to actually hit the players with the medpacks at the right time. As it is they only refill heath, so they're not terribly OP. So any tweak should be small, if you really want to tweak something.
I rather like the bile idea you've implemented. That's not something I've heard before.
You could try the suggestion here to buff the powernode health.
Nice work!