RFK as an avenue for addressing balance
|strofix|
Join Date: 2012-11-01 Member: 165453Members
Join Date: 2012-11-01 Member: 165453Members
In the past, I have always been foursquare against the concept of RFK. I felt that it was ultimately detrimental to gameplay for many reasons which have been done to death, so I won't go into them now.
However, after it was once again mentioned in a thread regarding the source of imbalance in NS2, I began thinking of it in a different light.
Here are some ideas I need to get out of the way first, before the main suggestion:
The first is the concept that aliens are more reliant on pRes than marines are. This is due to a number of reasons, the Onos being quite a big one (in public play at least). Other reasons include weapon recycling, as well as the more granular nature of marine pRes investments (welders, mines, shotguns, jetpacks) compared to the very "all in" nature of alien investments (Lerk, Fade, Onos).
The second idea is an obvious one, which is how the current res for death mechanic encourages passivity in both teams. This in a game which strictly requires constant and offensive pressure from the marine team. If conveyed in the right way, and with enough emphasis, RFK would be the driving force behind getting new and inexperienced players to be far more aggressive and active.
My suggestion is as follows: cut pRes gain for individual players by x%, and introduce a res for kill system which rewards y resources for each kill.
I use variables because the exact values will require a lot of data and analysis to achieve the desired effect. The desired effect is that an average marine who plays aggressively should break exactly even with the current system. That is to say that, if an average marine on team with 4 extractors takes exactly 10 minutes to get 75 resources, then with this system it should take the exact same amount of time, provided he plays somewhat aggressively, and seeks out kills. For the alien team, an average alien who plays aggressively should come out around 8-10% worse off than aliens do in the current system. So if an average alien takes 10 minutes to get 75 resources currently, with this system it would take 11 minutes, provided he play somewhat aggressively.
The idea behind this is to lessen the impact of extremely good players getting, for example, a fade very quickly. Good players will of course still be able to make up the defecit in this system and get a quicker fade, but not necessarily all that much faster than players currently get a fade, just quicker than other people on his team.
The reduction of pRes gained from resource nodes is intended to hit aliens harder in 2 ways. First of all, as mentioned previously, I feel that aliens rely on pRes more than marines do, and secondly because most players agree that marines tend to have more extractors than aliens have harvesters.
The main idea is to create this sense of needing to be aggressive, or, the sense of needing the enemy to not get many kills. As marines, you could choose to attack in order to increase your pRes to a higher level than the aliens can achieve. Or, you could choose to play defensively, and die rarely, in order to hit the aliens were it hurts; their pRes.
However, after it was once again mentioned in a thread regarding the source of imbalance in NS2, I began thinking of it in a different light.
Here are some ideas I need to get out of the way first, before the main suggestion:
The first is the concept that aliens are more reliant on pRes than marines are. This is due to a number of reasons, the Onos being quite a big one (in public play at least). Other reasons include weapon recycling, as well as the more granular nature of marine pRes investments (welders, mines, shotguns, jetpacks) compared to the very "all in" nature of alien investments (Lerk, Fade, Onos).
The second idea is an obvious one, which is how the current res for death mechanic encourages passivity in both teams. This in a game which strictly requires constant and offensive pressure from the marine team. If conveyed in the right way, and with enough emphasis, RFK would be the driving force behind getting new and inexperienced players to be far more aggressive and active.
My suggestion is as follows: cut pRes gain for individual players by x%, and introduce a res for kill system which rewards y resources for each kill.
I use variables because the exact values will require a lot of data and analysis to achieve the desired effect. The desired effect is that an average marine who plays aggressively should break exactly even with the current system. That is to say that, if an average marine on team with 4 extractors takes exactly 10 minutes to get 75 resources, then with this system it should take the exact same amount of time, provided he plays somewhat aggressively, and seeks out kills. For the alien team, an average alien who plays aggressively should come out around 8-10% worse off than aliens do in the current system. So if an average alien takes 10 minutes to get 75 resources currently, with this system it would take 11 minutes, provided he play somewhat aggressively.
The idea behind this is to lessen the impact of extremely good players getting, for example, a fade very quickly. Good players will of course still be able to make up the defecit in this system and get a quicker fade, but not necessarily all that much faster than players currently get a fade, just quicker than other people on his team.
The reduction of pRes gained from resource nodes is intended to hit aliens harder in 2 ways. First of all, as mentioned previously, I feel that aliens rely on pRes more than marines do, and secondly because most players agree that marines tend to have more extractors than aliens have harvesters.
The main idea is to create this sense of needing to be aggressive, or, the sense of needing the enemy to not get many kills. As marines, you could choose to attack in order to increase your pRes to a higher level than the aliens can achieve. Or, you could choose to play defensively, and die rarely, in order to hit the aliens were it hurts; their pRes.
Comments
Where is this assumption coming from? Inexperienced players are aggressive and active, though. Sure, they may end pushing into the wrong places or without making use of the tools at their disposal, but that's a communication issue...not a pRes issue..
This is a terrible balance idea and actually makes the game much worse for a number of reasons.
1. More than anything, this makes good players even more dominant in a game. They have higher tech/lifeforms quicker than anyone else and thus can solidify their dominance in a match very early on. New players are completely sol in this and will feel helpless
2. Why do you put aggressive play up on a pedestal as the only way this game should be played (reward players for aggression but not defense)? Marines can easily have a reason to prioritize building something over killing a skulk. I can imagine the start of the game when everyone runs out of base to kill a skulk for pRes rather than build a powernode or extractor and leave themself vulnerable to attack.
3. It encourages teams to get angry at players that don't get many kills, ruining the spirit of this game.
This is definitely not the way to go for NS2.
Good players should be allowed to have a bigger impact on the game than bad players. Or do you think players at the bottom of the scoreboard should get more Pres so they can have fun too ??? And I agree with you, we should remove the Pres-flow-stopping-when-dead so that newbies can have their personal res too.
Because "defense" is so fun, I love building turrets and playing PvE in my Sim City city I just built. That's true, why reward action ? We should cut the map in 2 for the first 10 minutes like in siege maps so everyone can have time to play Element Tower Defense 3.0
Probably just like in NS1 ... ???
Yes, these are all basically the done-to-death reasons why RFK can be bad, and they are all valid.
1. This will always be a negative side affect of RFK. Many argue that this should be addressed by simply not having imbalanced teams in the first place. It doesn't really matter if one player kills more than another, so long as the kills are just about equal over both teams.
2. I personally dislike overly aggressive play, or being forced to undertake a certain style of play. Unfortunately, at the moment, aggressive play is a prerequisite for a marine victory. There is simply no way around that fact. Aliens also benefit heavily from putting sustained pressure on the marines. Maybe if the game changes in the future this will no longer be the case, but currently the mechanics themselves dictate that aggressive play is the best option.
3. Teams already do this, but I suppose it would only worsen things.
Good players already do have an impact on the game. I wasn't arguing against this, as you make it sound. I just don't see a need to make this dominance even more pronounced in a game.
I can only assume you're trolling here...I can't think of a single round of NS2 that has felt like marines are sitting on a turret sentry farm (3 sentries is called a farm of sentries??? But I've been calling them a gaggle of sentries this whole time!).
I don't know where you're getting this SimCity PvE tower defense nonsense from.
You have a very jaded and incorrect view of what defense actually means. Phasing into a tech point to stop an alien attack? That's defense, not aggression.
Healing? Gorges building the hives (essential in some games) will not get anything or a welder for an exo.
Bait? If I walked into an unsecured hallway to save my comrades from ventilated pants, no reward.
It also can reduce the aggressive nature of people, why would you throw yourself at the opposition; you will just feed them, right?
If the Pres was based more on score (assuming scoring is balanced more), it might work for that, but otherwise I think the current system is ok...ish.
PS: I remember someone before complaining about skulks and AR marines being too powerful for their cost, maybe the loss of P.res is to compensate for that?
1) It discourages players from being aggressive with skulks because there is now a benefit to the marines when the arguably disposable skulks dies trying to take down an RT/PG/WhatHaveYou.
2) It encourages turtling.
3) It creates an even greater discrepancy between skilled and lesser skilled players, which grants access to more powerful tech/lifeforms, which creates a greater discrepancy between skilled and lesser skilled players. It greases the slippery slope too much.
4) It gives incentive to people to disparage other players who are not as skilled (stop giving them res n00b!).
5) It does nothing for Gorges, who rarely get kills; and will actually hurt them under your plan because they will now get less res then before. We don't need to weaken the Gorge any more.