If pipeline sucks, why do pubs insist on taking pipeline instead of cargo when the aliens spawned in Sub-Sector?
Because the rines playing suck. If aliens spawn sub and rines can't take cargo or nano I usually give up, going for pipe at that point is the "sigh lets just wait till we get owned" solution.
There's nothing wrong with tactical locations in the map that confer a heavy advantage while the marines hold them. It makes things more interesting than just "put a phase gate in every tech point you can secure". It's only a problem if they are too easy to take and hold, which Dome definitely isn't.
i bleeive aliens have a harder time if they start in pipe they are less likely to win, its a harder defensive position and easy to cut it off from nano
Of course its a good strategy because its set up in a choke point that controls multiple areas. However its deep in alien territory and there is a very high chance that there will be a drifter or cysts there by the time you have marines in position with phase tech researched, thus its not exactly easy to lock down and "proxy marines" have next to no chance in my experience of actually taking down cargo vs an equally skilled team, at best you can snipe the RT down, one gorge and a couple skulks can basically hold off your entire team from cargo.
Its very far from marine start so its impossible to reinforce your position if the phase gate doesn't get up and its cramped as hell so aliens can absolute decimate you.
So yes, you have correctly evaluated that its a strong point to hold but its not imbalanced because its typically hard to get (less so with a sub start, but then marines dont need the pipeline side at all with a sub start).
The dome in veil is not the problem, the map veil is the problem.
I agree, the fact there are only 4 tech points makes it easy for marines to hold 1 and deny stomp, umbra and aliens getting full upgrades. Yet marines must if they want full tech...we cant get a full tech v full tech point on this map.
That nano has covers on the vents yet it can easily be arcd from two locations which are not easy for aliens to respond to further compounds the issues with this map.
Back in NS1 sieges had ot be built and as such where in situ much longer allowing greater warning time of a problem.
The only redeeming aspect of hte map is that marines feel their mobility issues more early game.
I'm sure you all know these stats, but I didn't see them posted in here anywhere.
For Build 239 in ns2_veil public and competitive
Alien start in Pipeline: 37.8% win
Alien start in Cargo: 57.4% win
Alien start in Sub-sector: 71.9% win
Pretty unbalanced.
I don't really think a base in dome is a map breaker. Last time I played in a match with a base in dome, an extremely skilled lerk just sat in there and went 50-0 against marines trying to get into cargo.
I see your point about it being a major choke-point but perhaps a necessary one given the stats. I think veil has bigger problems.
There are so many vents and so many vents that marines can easily get into. If anyone remembers veil from ns1 it also had a lot of vents but vents that took teamwork for marines to get into.
As far as those ratios go I hope you didn’t get them from ns2 stats cause it’s now a fact that it doesn’t show the correct ratios.
I still can’t understand why those covers in nano were placed there. That was how aliens were able to siege out nano just as marines can roll arcs down to and on either side of nano and siege the aliens out.
Probably because too many people complained. Never had an issue myself, it was part of the challenge for marines on a map they already have advantage on.
You suggest that its "so easy" for marines to run more then 1/2 way across the map, cut the cysts, set up the power and a phase, while literally one room away from the alien hive, and nano (where the rest of the aliens will be chillin) in a room that is pretty good for skulks to fight in. Can you figure the rest out from here?
Not SureJoin Date: 2013-01-06Member: 177758Members
I'm guessing every time you build up dome, you get waves of skulk charging up the hallway from cargo and getting mowed down.
Well, those guys are idiots so don't use them as an example. I've commanded something like 300 hours in this game for both aliens and marines and the only overpowered tactics/strategy I've seen yet is "get jetpacks asap" and "get bilebomb asap." There is no perfect room to build a base. Everything is situational.
I'm guessing every time you build up dome, you get waves of skulk charging up the hallway from cargo and getting mowed down.
Well, those guys are idiots so don't use them as an example. I've commanded something like 300 hours in this game for both aliens and marines and the only overpowered tactics/strategy I've seen yet is "get jetpacks asap" and "get bilebomb asap." There is no perfect room to build a base. Everything is situational.
Have you ever heard of a room called Central Drilling?
I'm guessing every time you build up dome, you get waves of skulk charging up the hallway from cargo and getting mowed down.
Well, those guys are idiots so don't use them as an example. I've commanded something like 300 hours in this game for both aliens and marines and the only overpowered tactics/strategy I've seen yet is "get jetpacks asap" and "get bilebomb asap." There is no perfect room to build a base. Everything is situational.
Have you ever heard of a room called Central Drilling?
central power can be biled from across the universe. Get creative. Get some team mates to distract. Get central drilling.
I'm guessing every time you build up dome, you get waves of skulk charging up the hallway from cargo and getting mowed down.
Well, those guys are idiots so don't use them as an example. I've commanded something like 300 hours in this game for both aliens and marines and the only overpowered tactics/strategy I've seen yet is "get jetpacks asap" and "get bilebomb asap." There is no perfect room to build a base. Everything is situational.
Have you ever heard of a room called Central Drilling?
central power can be biled from across the universe. Get creative. Get some team mates to distract. Get central drilling.
I'm going to employ some deductive reasoning now that makes a number of assumptions. I welcome you to find fault in the assumptions, as that is your prerogative. However, please do not find fault in me as the individual for making said assumptions.
I assume that you are agreeing with the previous poster in his assertion that there are no perfect or overpowered rooms in any of the maps.
I also assume that you are asserting that, while central drilling has its advantages, it also has its equal disadvantages, and is a balanced room.
Central drilling currently allows the marine team to ARC deposit hive. This is most likely going to be changed in future patches, moving the hive location further away from central drilling, preventing this from happening.
If the room is currently balanced now, for marine occupation, will the removal of the ability to siege deposit hive not render it an extremely weak choice for marines to take?
Was merely refering to taking central out. Central is large an open yes, but also full of geometry and has multiple entrances. The power node is very exposed. Create chaos and hit the power from range.
The arcing issue is another bitch.
Still, everything is situational. Why uber base central if you hold deposit?
also if this is a balance discussion, don't bother mentioning anything related to Mineshaft. Mineshaft is largely regard as the least balanced map in the game
You suggest that its "so easy" for marines to run more then 1/2 way across the map, cut the cysts, set up the power and a phase, while literally one room away from the alien hive, and nano (where the rest of the aliens will be chillin) in a room that is pretty good for skulks to fight in. Can you figure the rest out from here?
The fuck? 2 marines? Where did I say that, no no silly, I meant everyone but 1 or 2 people.
Well, should all maps be a full tech vs full tech game?
With Veil, there are so many vents ...
Well you kinda of assume that seeing as we have 5 on other maps which allows for a 2 - 3 tech point situation.
Veil being ns1 was not designed with this in mind and whilst a tech point in nano was tried it didn't work.
I think it does need another tech point to really work and not result in games where 1 side cant reach full tech if the other side has.
Until then its not hard to expect a marine team to hold 2 tech points...it can be tough for aliens to hold all three. Most veil games I have played aliens rarely deny marines holding a 2nd tech point unless there is a bit of a stack/bad comm.
Comments
It's the same reason they always want to take pipeworks on Refinery, instead of containment or turbine, or why they want shift first.
Because the rines playing suck. If aliens spawn sub and rines can't take cargo or nano I usually give up, going for pipe at that point is the "sigh lets just wait till we get owned" solution.
ns2_systemwaypointing
Its very far from marine start so its impossible to reinforce your position if the phase gate doesn't get up and its cramped as hell so aliens can absolute decimate you.
So yes, you have correctly evaluated that its a strong point to hold but its not imbalanced because its typically hard to get (less so with a sub start, but then marines dont need the pipeline side at all with a sub start).
That nano has covers on the vents yet it can easily be arcd from two locations which are not easy for aliens to respond to further compounds the issues with this map.
Back in NS1 sieges had ot be built and as such where in situ much longer allowing greater warning time of a problem.
The only redeeming aspect of hte map is that marines feel their mobility issues more early game.
With Veil, there are so many vents ...
For Build 239 in ns2_veil public and competitive
Alien start in Pipeline: 37.8% win
Alien start in Cargo: 57.4% win
Alien start in Sub-sector: 71.9% win
Pretty unbalanced.
I don't really think a base in dome is a map breaker. Last time I played in a match with a base in dome, an extremely skilled lerk just sat in there and went 50-0 against marines trying to get into cargo.
I see your point about it being a major choke-point but perhaps a necessary one given the stats. I think veil has bigger problems.
As far as those ratios go I hope you didn’t get them from ns2 stats cause it’s now a fact that it doesn’t show the correct ratios.
I still can’t understand why those covers in nano were placed there. That was how aliens were able to siege out nano just as marines can roll arcs down to and on either side of nano and siege the aliens out.
I did get them from NS2 Stats, as I wasn't aware.
When did this become known and can it be fixed?
Assuming the stats are semi accurate I'd like to point out the following.
Sub - good connection to nano.
Cargo - ok connection to nano.
Pipe - crap connection to nano.
Imagine if sub had to go through overlook to get to nano.
Dumbest post of the day award. Difficult to take that award from strofix"
Well, those guys are idiots so don't use them as an example. I've commanded something like 300 hours in this game for both aliens and marines and the only overpowered tactics/strategy I've seen yet is "get jetpacks asap" and "get bilebomb asap." There is no perfect room to build a base. Everything is situational.
Have you ever heard of a room called Central Drilling?
central power can be biled from across the universe. Get creative. Get some team mates to distract. Get central drilling.
I'm going to employ some deductive reasoning now that makes a number of assumptions. I welcome you to find fault in the assumptions, as that is your prerogative. However, please do not find fault in me as the individual for making said assumptions.
I assume that you are agreeing with the previous poster in his assertion that there are no perfect or overpowered rooms in any of the maps.
I also assume that you are asserting that, while central drilling has its advantages, it also has its equal disadvantages, and is a balanced room.
Central drilling currently allows the marine team to ARC deposit hive. This is most likely going to be changed in future patches, moving the hive location further away from central drilling, preventing this from happening.
If the room is currently balanced now, for marine occupation, will the removal of the ability to siege deposit hive not render it an extremely weak choice for marines to take?
Dude, it's Veil, everywhere is 1/2 way accross the map for marines.
The arcing issue is another bitch.
Still, everything is situational. Why uber base central if you hold deposit?
The fuck? 2 marines? Where did I say that, no no silly, I meant everyone but 1 or 2 people.
Veil being ns1 was not designed with this in mind and whilst a tech point in nano was tried it didn't work.
I think it does need another tech point to really work and not result in games where 1 side cant reach full tech if the other side has.
Until then its not hard to expect a marine team to hold 2 tech points...it can be tough for aliens to hold all three. Most veil games I have played aliens rarely deny marines holding a 2nd tech point unless there is a bit of a stack/bad comm.