I'm not so sure I like the new shotgun.

sharnrocksharnrock Join Date: 2012-11-02 Member: 166084Members
I like that it's not as random, but the spread is so huge. Sometimes it takes 3 shotgun blasts to kill a skulk. I have my pistol out so often now, I wonder why I don't just stick with the lmg.

Idk, maybe I'm just not used to it yet.
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Comments

  • y2jrock60y2jrock60 Join Date: 2012-11-30 Member: 173739Members
    I personally get more kills with the new shotgun. Maybe it's just because I'm using it more now though. I like to save up for grenade launchers, jetpacks, and flamethrowers, so I often find myself skipping shotguns unless I pick one up from a fallen soldier.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    Its all about timing and risk now. You have to wait for that lifeform to get close enough to be more damaging - but without getting damaged , or maybe just damaged enough.
    Higher risk, higher reward, at a higher skill requirement.

    Finally fits it's role of "great upclose / poor from far away"
    Relevant: http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/comment/2070825/#Comment_2070825
  • NeokenNeoken Bruges, Belgium Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27447Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester
    I like the new shotgun. Less frustrating than the random spread version, and still as good as ever as a short range skulk blaster.
  • sharnrocksharnrock Join Date: 2012-11-02 Member: 166084Members
    ironhorse wrote: »
    Its all about timing and risk now. You have to wait for that lifeform to get close enough to be more damaging - but without getting damaged , or maybe just damaged enough.
    Higher risk, higher reward, at a higher skill requirement.

    Finally fits it's role of "great upclose / poor from far away"
    Relevant: http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/comment/2070825/#Comment_2070825

    With the increased spread, and increased chance of landing at least some pellets, I would say not necessarily. A smaller cone would make for a more precise shot. I understand what you're saying about making it more dangerous and having to make the shots count, but this thing costs a lot p-res. Marines have a range advantage. It seems like all the alternative weapons they have to choose from let the aliens get closer. If I buy a fade or lerk, that's an upgrade. If I buy a flamethrower or shotgun, it's a side grade.

    flamethrower - useless after 10ft
    shotgun - not very useful after 15ft
    GL - just plain useless
  • supsusupsu Join Date: 2012-04-24 Member: 151023Members, Squad Five Blue
    I personally don't like it either, for the same reason. I'd like the spread to be a little tinier so you can one shot skulk from one meter away, if you get lucky, and the damage to be a bit lower. I don't like that I need for the skulk to be fully in my screen so I can securely kill him.
  • xDragonxDragon Join Date: 2012-04-04 Member: 149948Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited February 2013
    New shotgun suffers from many problems, and doesnt really solve any of the ones that existed. And just so its known - these changes were done 8 hours before patch time because it had fallen by the wayside, and all the comments about how the new spread fixed nothing - got ignored. They both tighten the spread by 20% and then added 2 more pellets, making the damage higher overall (was initally 15 at 11 dmg). Now we are left with a shotgun that does too much damage at point blank, but also has almost 0 effective range. It still can snipe almost as good as the old shotgun on skulks. As i said before and in countless other threads - the fix to the shotgun is not a perfectly symmetrical distribution like it is now - that both lowers the skill ceiling (wider area of damage = less precision required) and also still allows for long range hits. A good solution that has been suggested many times is a circular spread like in Quake.

    In the end its lack of knowledge about the game that leads to changes like this that ultimately do nothing to improve the weapons utility or place. Maybe someday people will realize this game is a RTS/FPS and not a class based shooter.
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited February 2013
    I miss the old one sometimes, it really is a SHORT range weapon now. You can't really have everyone go shotgun anymore, you need an lmg or two in the mix or you get raped.

    EDIT: That said, I do like the new one, it does more what a shotgun should do imo, and like someone else said, higher risk higher reward.
  • EmooEmoo Ibasa Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11198Members
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    I miss the old one sometimes, it really is a SHORT range weapon now. You can't really have everyone go shotgun anymore, you need an lmg or two in the mix or you get raped.

    EDIT: That said, I do like the new one, it does more what a shotgun should do imo, and like someone else said, higher risk higher reward.

    I'd say it's a good thing that you can't have everyone take it. It's like GLs, flamers and exos all of them suck if too many choose it. Now shotgun falls into that group as well, a hindrance if most of the team take it, but a help if a few take it.

    That said while I feel the new shotgun is an improvement it's slightly OP. The new scatter and pellet count is good but it feels that the overall damage it puts out is just a tad too high.
  • TechercizerTechercizer 7th Player Join Date: 2011-06-11 Member: 103832Members
    edited February 2013
    sharnrock wrote: »
    If I buy a fade or lerk, that's an upgrade. If I buy a flamethrower or shotgun, it's a side grade.

    You might want to practice your Skulkwork a bit, then. Fades and Lerks are bigger targets that Skulks, they're much worse at killing buildings, and they have to factor getting out alive into all of their combat strategies. They're good units, and they do what they do well, but they gain a weakness for every strength.
  • sharnrocksharnrock Join Date: 2012-11-02 Member: 166084Members
    sharnrock wrote: »
    If I buy a fade or lerk, that's an upgrade. If I buy a flamethrower or shotgun, it's a side grade.

    You might want to practice your Skulkwork a bit, then. Fades and Lerks are bigger targets that Skulks, they're much worse at killing buildings, and they have to factor getting out alive into all of their combat strategies. They're good units, and they do what they do well, but they gain a weakness for every strength.

    I've yet to see a skulk go 40/1 in any reasonable game.
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    Lerk's shouldn't be dying to these shotguns, if you swoop in on someone with a shotgun you're doing it fucking wrong. Fades...you have to hope they're bad shots, or you get lucky, or you're REALLY skilled. Or play like a pussy only hitting solo rines, or going in with cover, going in solo 1v3 isn't even close to an option unless you're top 1% fade.
  • SquishpokePOOPFACESquishpokePOOPFACE -21,248 posts (ignore below) Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165262Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I miss being able to blam-snipe skulks from across the room.
  • GlissGliss Join Date: 2003-03-23 Member: 14800Members, Constellation, NS2 Map Tester
    edited February 2013
    supsu wrote: »
    I personally don't like it either, for the same reason. I'd like the spread to be a little tinier so you can one shot skulk from one meter away, if you get lucky, and the damage to be a bit lower. I don't like that I need for the skulk to be fully in my screen so I can securely kill him.
    this issue is also amplified by NS2's interp / netcode - you're basically waiting to shoot until after it's already too late and you've been bitten which is frustrating to say the least

  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    An even symmetrical pattern was an absolutely necessary improvement to the shotgun. The size of the spread can easily be tweaked in the future if it proves necessary, so relax. I've found it to be about the same as before personally, the old shotgun was only longer range if you were relying on the incredibly unreliable spread pattern to work in your favor.
  • MrPinkMrPink Join Date: 2002-05-28 Member: 678Members
    I have noticed that lerk vs. shotgun is really easy for the lerk if you just keep a little distance. It's a very effective counter now.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    sharnrock wrote: »
    I like that it's not as random, but the spread is so huge. Sometimes it takes 3 shotgun blasts to kill a skulk. I have my pistol out so often now, I wonder why I don't just stick with the lmg.

    Idk, maybe I'm just not used to it yet.

    The only things that changed are this:
    • Old shogun:
      • 2-3+ meters most effective range
      • Random long range big damage shot due to random rotation, clustered pellets and less spread
    • New shotgun:
      • 1.5-2+ meters most effective range
      • Consistent damage throughout the range, no random long range "crits". The futher away the target the less damage you do (compared to the old shotgun)

    There is now also more synergy with the pistol for long range sniping, I used to mainly use the shotty for close to mid range. But now tend to switch to pistol earlier to make sure the shots hit and do max damage (pistol bullet vs random shotgun cluster crit+less spread)
  • deathshrouddeathshroud Join Date: 2010-04-10 Member: 71291Members
    seem to get more kills with it now
  • Wonderboy2402Wonderboy2402 Join Date: 2011-08-28 Member: 118911Members
    I feel like it is a water spritz bottle and when you aim at skulks... anything greater then five feet they barely get wet. But a blast directly in the face will drop them.
  • pendelum5pendelum5 Join Date: 2012-10-29 Member: 164317Members
    I love the new spread. Even if it does less damage at range, it is easier to tag a skulk and strip his celerity for the panicking LMG teammates he's biting.
  • FuleFule Join Date: 2009-06-04 Member: 67683Members
    It's more skill than luck now. I like it.
  • sotanahtsotanaht Join Date: 2013-01-12 Member: 179215Members
    It's almost impossible to completely miss with the shotgun now, short OR long range, and the extremely tight center 5 pellets make it particularly effective direct fire at long range. It's 55 damage with barely any more spread than the LMG at any range, enough to snipe a skulk in 2 shots.
  • SquishpokePOOPFACESquishpokePOOPFACE -21,248 posts (ignore below) Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165262Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited February 2013
    Today I totally killed three skulks in TWO shots jumping out of the phase-gate in a 360 spin no-scope YEAH SKILZ!!1
    I officially like the new shotgun now, I'm actually getting more kills with it than the old one.
  • sotanahtsotanaht Join Date: 2013-01-12 Member: 179215Members
    Squishpoke wrote: »
    Today I totally killed three skulks in TWO shots jumping out of the phase-gate in a 360 spin no-scope YEAH SKILZ!!1
    I officially like the new shotgun now, I'm actually getting more kills with it than the old one.

    Yep, it's an all around buff. More consistant range damage, more forgiving at all ranges, higher max damage. The only thing that's any worse is the maximum range for full damage, if you want to get the full amount on an onos or fade you have to get a bit closer than before.
  • |strofix||strofix| Join Date: 2012-11-01 Member: 165453Members
    I laugh at marines with shotguns while I spike them from 5 meters away.
  • sotanahtsotanaht Join Date: 2013-01-12 Member: 179215Members
    |strofix| wrote: »
    I laugh at marines with shotguns while I spike them from 5 meters away.
    They should still be able to do around 80-120 damage at that range if they can get a direct hit. Nothing really much changed as far as I'm concerned.
  • |strofix||strofix| Join Date: 2012-11-01 Member: 165453Members
    sotanaht wrote: »
    |strofix| wrote: »
    I laugh at marines with shotguns while I spike them from 5 meters away.
    They should still be able to do around 80-120 damage at that range if they can get a direct hit. Nothing really much changed as far as I'm concerned.

    I can still laugh while I'm dead!

  • SquishpokePOOPFACESquishpokePOOPFACE -21,248 posts (ignore below) Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165262Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Lerks ruin everyone's fun.
  • statikgstatikg Join Date: 2012-09-19 Member: 159978Members
    I have not had the experience of being able to do long range damage with the new shotgun, I think its good that it got balanced a bit, not sure that we needed the damage buff, but I am hopeful that the damage buff is simply in anticipation of a fade hp buff.
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    The more I play, the more I miss being able to one shot skulks at medium range.
  • SpaceJewSpaceJew Join Date: 2012-09-03 Member: 157584Members
    edited February 2013
    Where is my mid-game tech to one shot Marines from far away?

    I mean, if it's totally fair for a Marine to gib an aliens player up close (You know, the only envelope a skulk can attack in?) then it should also be totally fair for an Onos to launch a horn through a Marines chest from 80 meters away and nail him to a wall. Right?

    Oh wait, asymmetry! I guess just saying that word makes it ok. I wish I had some more asymmetry in my life, it would solve every argument I have with people.

    EDIT:

    On a serious note, the changes to shotgun really make the need for a 'last weapon used' quick key all the more necessary.
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