Does anyone else notice that if you have a robotics factory do anything, upgrade to arc factory, make arc, make mac, whatever, you can't cancel it? You can cancel ANYTHING else, but not on the robotics factory, what's up with that?
<!--quoteo(post=2057117:date=Jan 7 2013, 11:26 AM:name=Ghosthree3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ghosthree3 @ Jan 7 2013, 11:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2057117"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Does anyone else notice that if you have a robotics factory do anything, upgrade to arc factory, make arc, make mac, whatever, you can't cancel it? You can cancel ANYTHING else, but not on the robotics factory, what's up with that?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I mentioned that in my original post:
<!--quoteo(post=2056564:date=Jan 6 2013, 06:15 AM:name=Amb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Amb @ Jan 6 2013, 06:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2056564"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->* allow marine comm to queue multiple ARC/MAC purchases, <!--coloro:#008000--><span style="color:#008000"><!--/coloro-->also allow comm to cancel a purchase in progress<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2057089:date=Jan 7 2013, 10:32 AM:name=Wake)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wake @ Jan 7 2013, 10:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2057089"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No to beacon cancellation, you have to make your decision. I find it more fun that way.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2057103:date=Jan 7 2013, 11:00 AM:name=Xao)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xao @ Jan 7 2013, 11:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2057103"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Canceling beacons seems like a balance change and not a QoL change to me<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Beacon canceling has always been in NS1, granted in NS1 beacon cost energy instead of res which is why I said the team should still punished by not getting a refund.
<!--quoteo(post=2057103:date=Jan 7 2013, 11:00 AM:name=Xao)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xao @ Jan 7 2013, 11:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2057103"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The fact that getting out the hive and pressing B will let you know what upgrades you have within half a second as opposed to being the hive ######ing mind and having no indications of what is up is annoying at best.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
hahaha, that's a very funny way to look @ it but it's oh so true.
<!--quoteo(post=2057089:date=Jan 7 2013, 10:32 AM:name=Wake)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wake @ Jan 7 2013, 10:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2057089"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ok to have a follow order for MACs but lets make it and upgrade, not a gift, since it's a real asset and upgrade to MAC's AI.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
MACs automatically run up to people to weld but require upgrade to follow people? makes no sense, sorry.
<!--quoteo(post=2057126:date=Jan 7 2013, 11:48 AM:name=Amb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Amb @ Jan 7 2013, 11:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2057126"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I mentioned that in my original post:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, sorry, forgot you did, also you have a huge issue with double+ posting, you found the edit button but you over post anyway D:
<!--quoteo(post=2057130:date=Jan 7 2013, 11:55 AM:name=Amb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Amb @ Jan 7 2013, 11:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2057130"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->MACs automatically run up to people to weld but require upgrade to follow people? makes no sense, sorry.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He means an upgrade will allow you to assign the MAC's to follow specific people/exos, rather then their current behavior "FIX EVERYTHING".
<!--quoteo(post=2057136:date=Jan 7 2013, 12:28 PM:name=Ghosthree3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ghosthree3 @ Jan 7 2013, 12:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2057136"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->He means an upgrade will allow you to assign the MAC's to follow specific people/exos, rather then their current behavior "FIX EVERYTHING".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah I know that. What I'm saying is, the MACs are smart enough to know who/what needs welding but aren't smart enough to follow someone unless they received an "upgrade"?
<!--quoteo(post=2057143:date=Jan 7 2013, 12:52 PM:name=Ghosthree3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ghosthree3 @ Jan 7 2013, 12:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2057143"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't agree it should be an upgrade, it should be pretty easy to click a mac, right click a person, hey it follows them around, that was hard.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yup, it should be THAT simple. Select a MAC, right click on a player and the MAC should follow that player.
I am actually pretty sad over the AI as a whole. Their path choices is pretty bad too, If you are not too careful they will pick a path that goes right through enemy territory, or some atrocious waste-of-time path. I find myself giving them shorter way points that ends up being faster and safer.
AI is not an easy thing to code. Never has been, and never will be. But this game is still being developed, and it has the player base to keep the game wanting more.
<!--quoteo(post=2057089:date=Jan 6 2013, 06:32 PM:name=Wake)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wake @ Jan 6 2013, 06:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2057089"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No to the ARC precise range before they're deployed. Let have a bit of fog and incertitude please.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's true that hidden knowledge is a <i>cornerstone </i>of PVP games, but there's a huge difference between knowing the capabilities of your own equipment (especially since ARC range is static), and hidden knowledge relating to enemy strategy.
<b>Flashing ARC range briefly on right-click would be a great quality of life improvement. </b>There's no particular skill or interesting gameplay which comes about due to ARC range being obscured -- it's just a bad interface.
If you want interesting hidden knowledge interplay, that's great. I'm for that. Let's talk about the smart ways for adding more of that to NS2, and let's <i>not </i>use it as justification not to implement basic quality of life improvements. There are tons of opportunities for adding interesting information warfare to NS2 (and a lot of it revolves around tweaks to existing things -- like if there was a way to balance Ink such that it prevents things from being revealed when scanned (which would likely require a better infantry anti-structure weapon than marines currently have, given that GLs are completely shut down by whips which is where ARCs become a requirement.))
There are a ton of quality of life improvements which could be made without crossing the <i>"game plays itself"</i> line you seem to be worried about.
<!--quoteo(post=2056564:date=Jan 5 2013, 11:15 AM:name=Amb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Amb @ Jan 5 2013, 11:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2056564"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->* allow marine comm to queue multiple ARC/MAC purchases, also allow comm to cancel a purchase in progress
* pre-drop all the power nodes for marines to build at the start of the round. Power nodes cost 0 res to drop and cannot be destroyed by Aliens, making the comm to double click to bulk drop power node is totally unnecessary and plain annoying.
* a more intuitive way to beacon: when you select an obs to beacon, it always ports the players to the nearest CC. So why not just let the comm click on a beacon-available CC on the minimap to beacon instead of keybinding individual obs?
* paint a red patch on the minimap every time a marine structure is attacked, the same way when alien cyst is attacked. Also add a loud warning alarm when a structure in a "tech point room" is attacked, similar to the alien hive scream.
* allow marine comm to drop scan, med/ammo spam directly onto the minimap in the lower left corner
* make drifter say "the enemy approaches" when hostiles are within its line of sight (same way the SC worked in NS1 v1.0)
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--coloro:#0000FF--><span style="color:#0000FF"><!--/coloro-->For both comms:<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--> * show players' names on the large minimap so the comm knows who's at where
* implement the <a href="http://media.moddb.com/images/articles/1/108/107716/auto/NS2_Insight_v10_800x526.jpg" target="_blank">spectator dashboard</a> to give the comms a better picture on the state of upgrades (who's sick of asking their team 'what upgrade did we lose?')<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My thoughts on your ideas:
Don't need to que multiple arcs/macs, noobs build enough of these as is. The game is meant to be players versus players, not players versus turrets.
Predropping power nodes is the worst thing ever. All the nodes used to be pre-set on mineshaft and it sucked. Some of them still are actually, and aliens will sit forever attacking every node and then marines will walk by and decide to rebuild it, and it's just annoying. Doesn't matter how many times you tell them waterpumps or whatever is useless, they go back. If you want them to build power nodes, just drop a building and the node will be there.
That isn't done because it takes longer, that's pretty much it. In the time it takes you to recognize something is happening, and take action you probably have almost lost a building. So it's best to just get people immediately where you need them instead of clicking more stuff.
Don't need a red patch on the map since the building flashes and usually shows what's attacking it.
Ok dropping health and ammo on a moving target is hard enough while comming, especially since there's so many places it can fall or get stuck on. Just simply no to this. There is no way you can actually effectively drop health or ammo with the mini map.
Drifters don't need to say anything, the minimap says it for them. Seriously I don't want to hear a door bell every time someone comes near a drifter, it's not a ######ing Halloween decoration.
The minimap is far too small to have names on it. There's enough information as is without cluttering it with names everywhere.
If you want to know what upgrades you lost, jump out of the hive and press b. Or better yet remember where you put things. Your team is more likely than not going to yell at you if they lost something important. If I lose celerity I immediately say hey where the hell is celerity. It's like taking a shower and the water gets turned off, you notice it.
Just to get some fact straight: the power nodes are not supposed to be invulnerable until fully built. They weren't in the past either, but it's a temporary workaround fix for a bug where it was impossible to get the node back up when it got destroyed during it's initial building phase. Devs just didn't fix it yet.
<!--quoteo(post=2057258:date=Jan 7 2013, 06:51 PM:name=Davil)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Davil @ Jan 7 2013, 06:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2057258"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My thoughts on your ideas:
Don't need to que multiple arcs/macs, noobs build enough of these as is. The game is meant to be players versus players, not players versus turrets.
Predropping power nodes is the worst thing ever. All the nodes used to be pre-set on mineshaft and it sucked. Some of them still are actually, and aliens will sit forever attacking every node and then marines will walk by and decide to rebuild it, and it's just annoying. Doesn't matter how many times you tell them waterpumps or whatever is useless, they go back. If you want them to build power nodes, just drop a building and the node will be there.
That isn't done because it takes longer, that's pretty much it. In the time it takes you to recognize something is happening, and take action you probably have almost lost a building. So it's best to just get people immediately where you need them instead of clicking more stuff.
Don't need a red patch on the map since the building flashes and usually shows what's attacking it.
Ok dropping health and ammo on a moving target is hard enough while comming, especially since there's so many places it can fall or get stuck on. Just simply no to this. There is no way you can actually effectively drop health or ammo with the mini map.
Drifters don't need to say anything, the minimap says it for them. Seriously I don't want to hear a door bell every time someone comes near a drifter, it's not a ######ing Halloween decoration.
The minimap is far too small to have names on it. There's enough information as is without cluttering it with names everywhere.
If you want to know what upgrades you lost, jump out of the hive and press b. Or better yet remember where you put things. Your team is more likely than not going to yell at you if they lost something important. If I lose celerity I immediately say hey where the hell is celerity. It's like taking a shower and the water gets turned off, you notice it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2057269:date=Jan 7 2013, 07:17 PM:name=Amb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Amb @ Jan 7 2013, 07:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2057269"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"dog in a manger" alert...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm just curious. But are you fat and really really lazy?
it seems to me that most people in this thread are defending or misinterpreting a bad UI as deliberate design and balance choices. the interface could use a lot of work. whether or not it's possible for a player to keep track of the mishaps is irrelevant. the fact is the UI does not relay most information efficiently, and little fun comes out of overcoming a poor system as opposed to working with a great one. a lot of rework could go into the field players' UI as well. for example, Aliens on the field typically don't have much of an idea as to what their commander is up to.
minimap needs to convey much more information than it should. I would start with the <a href="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=108936055&searchtext=minimap" target="_blank">minimap colored players</a>, and form some kind of identifier for minimap names. I can understand how it would be quite annoying in larger servers, but it's quite useful. Quakeworld solves this by allowing players to have a "shortname" that appears for teamchat communications that I believe is limited to 3-4 characters.
agreed on basic changes like the MAC range identifier of course. there skill difference should come in the positioning.
sometimes I swear if NS2 didn't have a clock on the scoreboard people would defend it as immersive...
<!--quoteo(post=2057138:date=Jan 6 2013, 08:32 PM:name=Amb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Amb @ Jan 6 2013, 08:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2057138"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->yeah I know that. What I'm saying is, the MACs are smart enough to know who/what needs welding but aren't smart enough to follow someone unless they received an "upgrade"?
lol...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you re going to LOl @ answers that are made to you, then LOL @ your proposals. End of participation
I think the UI that shows the marine team's players with their weapon and kda should appear on the left of the marine comm's screen, exactly the same as in spectater UI. It's small so it won't obscure vision, and when you click on one of the player's boxes it should take you to their location.
<!--quoteo(post=2057346:date=Jan 7 2013, 11:56 PM:name=Ghosthree3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ghosthree3 @ Jan 7 2013, 11:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2057346"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think the UI that shows the marine team's players with their weapon and kda should appear on the left of the marine comm's screen, exactly the same as in spectater UI. It's small so it won't obscure vision, and when you click on one of the player's boxes it should take you to their location.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So... remember in NS1 how all marines had this long tower of boxes telling them what upgrades they had? Why CAN'T we have that on the command screen? How about a horizontal stacked dashboard? For aliens, grey icons on the bottom for alien abilities before they're researched, yellow highlight when they're available, red when they're not (after research). Do the same with upgrade towers by putting a small tray of icons above that. For marines, the same dashboard with blue highlighting instead. Bottom bar being weapons/jetpacks/exo research, top bar being weapons/armor upgrades (updating icons, not 3 for each) and the research for MACs and phase tech.
What's wrong with having the spectator layout's ideas stuck onto the marine commander screen? A vertical dashboard showing marine names/weapons/location/health/armor would be AMAZING. It could work for the aliens, too.
Why not have Drifters alert the Khammander? That's what they're made for.
Absolutely to double tapping your bound keys to jump to what you've set. (If I set some crags or a robotics factory or etc. to a key, double tapping that key should instantly move my camera to it.)
All of these ideas raise the skill floor for commanding and help make the game more fun for new players while increasing awareness for veteran players as well.
However, I disagree with some of these ideas.
I would not like to see a follow command on the MACs. MAC trains are annoying enough as is. (Wouldn't mind patrol routes to repair bases, however.) [NOTE: You can hold shift to set multiple waypoints for MACs to make them go down the route you want them to follow.]
Do not pre-drop all of the power nodes. This will be extremely annoying when they fix the power nodes to be damageable while building again.
Beacons are fine, and they definitely shouldn't be something you can cancel. Forcing a beacon is an extremely important tactic for aliens. I would rather see little observatory icons on the tray you normally see MACs or Driters without tasks with small location texts above them to select them (only for observatories with a CC nearby, no duplicates, one obs icon per CC with obs nearby).
No to names on the minimap. Dashboards with player information will cover that.
And no to more ping options. Although this may help commanders without a microphone, I, personally, would rather see more emphasis put on voice communication with the team.
And that's how I would improve the commander UI. Feel free to disagree.
<!--quoteo(post=2057321:date=Jan 7 2013, 10:25 PM:name=Gliss)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gliss @ Jan 7 2013, 10:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2057321"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->it seems to me that most people in this thread are defending or misinterpreting a bad UI as deliberate design and balance choices.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This phenomenon has been around for decades in the computing world. Remember when GUI was first developed in 1974 with the Xerox Alto, became commercially available in 1984 with Apple's Macintosh but didn't become a mainstream standard until 1995 with Microsoft Win 95? It took the computer nerds 19 years to finally accept the fact that mouse/graphics is the way to go instead of keyboard/text. <u><b>19 years!</b></u>
This phenomenon still continues today. You have people who disapprove the use of GPS and e-reader because "why do I need that stuff when I can just read a real map/book?". Remember when the first iPhone came out so many people bashed its UI because it didn't have a physical keypad? Five years on, who's still making smart phones with physical keypad today?
Sorry to sound harsh but I have no respect for nay sayers, they are the ones who are always holding back great innovations in the tech industry. I remember a great quote from Steve Jobs when he was asked in an interview on people's inability to type proficiently on QWERTY keyboards and how he plans to solve that problem, he simply replied 'Death will eventually take care of everything'
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->allow marine comm to cancel a beacon in case of an accidental click, the alarm should stop the second it's canceled, team can still be punished with no res refund<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dunno .. in NS1 this was used alot to fool aliens. 1 skulk that gets into marine base shouldn't have to flee because there 'might' be aload of marines beaconed in .. it's an unfair tactic imho .. it's fun as marine comm .. but I'd personally be against it
<!--quoteo(post=2057401:date=Jan 8 2013, 02:00 AM:name=Balmark)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Balmark @ Jan 8 2013, 02:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2057401"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I dunno .. in NS1 this was used alot to fool aliens. 1 skulk that gets into marine base shouldn't have to flee because there 'might' be aload of marines beaconed in .. it's an unfair tactic imho .. it's fun as marine comm .. but I'd personally be against it<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I actually never got fooled by a canceled beacon in NS1 because you hear a very loud "swoosh" sound when the marines get mass ported in. Again, to me, that's a L2P issue and experience come in time. So to people who are worried that this might break the balance: again, NS wasn't, isn't and won't be balanced to accommodate newbs. If it was the case then UWE can simply kiss competitive play goodbye.
<!--quoteo(post=2057395:date=Jan 7 2013, 09:52 AM:name=Amb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Amb @ Jan 7 2013, 09:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2057395"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This phenomenon has been around for decades in the computing world. Remember when GUI was first developed in 1974 with the Xerox Alto, became commercially available in 1984 with Apple's Macintosh but didn't become a mainstream standard until 1995 with Microsoft Win 95. It took the computer nerds 19 years to finally accept the fact that mouse/graphics is the way to go instead of keyboard/text.
This phenomenon still continues today. You have people who disapprove the use of GPS and e-reader because "why do I need that stuff when I can just read a real map/book?". Remember when the first iPhone came out so many people bashed its UI because it didn't have a physical keypad? Five years on, who's still making smart phones with physical keypad today?
Sorry to sound harsh but I have no respect for nay sayers, they are the ones who are always holding back great innovations in the tech industry. I remember a great quote from Steve Jobs when he was asked in an interview on people not being to type efficiently on QWERTY keyboards and how he plans to solve that problem, he simply replied 'Death will eventually take care of everything'<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hate the future, my book ran out of batteries...
<!--quoteo(post=2057408:date=Jan 8 2013, 02:15 AM:name=MMZ_Torak)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MMZ_Torak @ Jan 8 2013, 02:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2057408"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I hate the future, my book ran out of batteries...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah and in 20 years I bet you'll be one of the protesters in the "ban the internet to keep the libraries open" parade.
<!--quoteo(post=2057401:date=Jan 8 2013, 02:00 AM:name=Balmark)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Balmark @ Jan 8 2013, 02:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2057401"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I dunno .. in NS1 this was used alot to fool aliens. 1 skulk that gets into marine base shouldn't have to flee because there 'might' be aload of marines beaconed in .. it's an unfair tactic imho .. it's fun as marine comm .. but I'd personally be against it<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gotta agree with this, you could run the aliens like puppets through the power of threat.
<!--quoteo(post=2057406:date=Jan 8 2013, 02:08 AM:name=Amb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Amb @ Jan 8 2013, 02:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2057406"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I actually never got fooled by a canceled beacon in NS1 because you hear a very loud "swoosh" sound when the marines get mass ported in. Again, to me, that's a L2P issue and experience come in time. So to people who are worried that this might break the balance: again, NS wasn't, isn't and won't be balanced to accommodate newbs. If it was the case then UWE can simply kiss competitive play goodbye.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Usually you want to get going BEFORE they arrive...
<!--quoteo(post=2057414:date=Jan 8 2013, 02:39 AM:name=Ghosthree3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ghosthree3 @ Jan 8 2013, 02:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2057414"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Usually you want to get going BEFORE they arrive...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yup and if I don't hear the final "swoosh" sound, I'd go straight back into their base knowing it's a canceled beacon and they just lost 10 res for it. /flex
<!--quoteo(post=2057416:date=Jan 8 2013, 02:44 AM:name=Amb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Amb @ Jan 8 2013, 02:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2057416"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->yup and if I don't hear the final "swoosh" sound, I'd go straight back into their base knowing it's a canceled beacon and they just lost 10 res for it. /flex<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, but maybe that split second was all they needed (slim chance I know but...it could happen).
The fact that the entire HUD is light blue should be enough indication that its not terribly well designed. Honestly the entire bottom section of the HUD should flip horizontally so the map is on the right and build is on the left (RTS conventions be damned! :P ) And we gotta get alerts in different colors, its so silly eveyrthing is light blue, it makes 0 sense.
Part of me wants to do a paintover but I get paid to do that all day and just can't make myself design more HUD when I go home... :( //effortgnomes
I like the OP's suggestions. I'd like to see Powernodes get a hover-icon above them in unbuilt locations so the comm can drive-by-drop them instead of double clicking at least. Pre-seeding all the nodes I'm mixed on; on the one hand there is less for the Comm to worry about which is good, but there is more clutter for Marines to sort out what they need to be doing (combined with the auto-waypoint for building it'd distract noobs the way cyst chopping does).
Whips - Control of whips is quirky. It is hard to tell if all whips in a group are rooted or unrooted. I've had to give whips numerous unroot / root commands until they actually do it. When you are controlling a large group of whips the commands run worse.
Comments
I mentioned that in my original post:
<!--quoteo(post=2056564:date=Jan 6 2013, 06:15 AM:name=Amb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Amb @ Jan 6 2013, 06:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2056564"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->* allow marine comm to queue multiple ARC/MAC purchases, <!--coloro:#008000--><span style="color:#008000"><!--/coloro-->also allow comm to cancel a purchase in progress<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2057103:date=Jan 7 2013, 11:00 AM:name=Xao)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xao @ Jan 7 2013, 11:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2057103"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Canceling beacons seems like a balance change and not a QoL change to me<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Beacon canceling has always been in NS1, granted in NS1 beacon cost energy instead of res which is why I said the team should still punished by not getting a refund.
hahaha, that's a very funny way to look @ it but it's oh so true.
<!--quoteo(post=2057089:date=Jan 7 2013, 10:32 AM:name=Wake)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wake @ Jan 7 2013, 10:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2057089"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ok to have a follow order for MACs but lets make it and upgrade, not a gift, since it's a real asset and upgrade to MAC's AI.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
MACs automatically run up to people to weld but require upgrade to follow people? makes no sense, sorry.
Yeah, sorry, forgot you did, also you have a huge issue with double+ posting, you found the edit button but you over post anyway D:
<!--quoteo(post=2057130:date=Jan 7 2013, 11:55 AM:name=Amb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Amb @ Jan 7 2013, 11:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2057130"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->MACs automatically run up to people to weld but require upgrade to follow people? makes no sense, sorry.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He means an upgrade will allow you to assign the MAC's to follow specific people/exos, rather then their current behavior "FIX EVERYTHING".
yeah I know that. What I'm saying is, the MACs are smart enough to know who/what needs welding but aren't smart enough to follow someone unless they received an "upgrade"?
lol...
yup, it should be THAT simple. Select a MAC, right click on a player and the MAC should follow that player.
AI is not an easy thing to code. Never has been, and never will be. But this game is still being developed, and it has the player base to keep the game wanting more.
It's true that hidden knowledge is a <i>cornerstone </i>of PVP games, but there's a huge difference between knowing the capabilities of your own equipment (especially since ARC range is static), and hidden knowledge relating to enemy strategy.
<b>Flashing ARC range briefly on right-click would be a great quality of life improvement. </b>There's no particular skill or interesting gameplay which comes about due to ARC range being obscured -- it's just a bad interface.
If you want interesting hidden knowledge interplay, that's great. I'm for that. Let's talk about the smart ways for adding more of that to NS2, and let's <i>not </i>use it as justification not to implement basic quality of life improvements. There are tons of opportunities for adding interesting information warfare to NS2 (and a lot of it revolves around tweaks to existing things -- like if there was a way to balance Ink such that it prevents things from being revealed when scanned (which would likely require a better infantry anti-structure weapon than marines currently have, given that GLs are completely shut down by whips which is where ARCs become a requirement.))
There are a ton of quality of life improvements which could be made without crossing the <i>"game plays itself"</i> line you seem to be worried about.
* pre-drop all the power nodes for marines to build at the start of the round. Power nodes cost 0 res to drop and cannot be destroyed by Aliens, making the comm to double click to bulk drop power node is totally unnecessary and plain annoying.
* a more intuitive way to beacon: when you select an obs to beacon, it always ports the players to the nearest CC. So why not just let the comm click on a beacon-available CC on the minimap to beacon instead of keybinding individual obs?
* paint a red patch on the minimap every time a marine structure is attacked, the same way when alien cyst is attacked. Also add a loud warning alarm when a structure in a "tech point room" is attacked, similar to the alien hive scream.
* allow marine comm to drop scan, med/ammo spam directly onto the minimap in the lower left corner
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--coloro:#0000FF--><span style="color:#0000FF"><!--/coloro-->For Alien comms:<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
* make drifter say "the enemy approaches" when hostiles are within its line of sight (same way the SC worked in NS1 v1.0)
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--coloro:#0000FF--><span style="color:#0000FF"><!--/coloro-->For both comms:<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
* show players' names on the large minimap so the comm knows who's at where
* implement the <a href="http://media.moddb.com/images/articles/1/108/107716/auto/NS2_Insight_v10_800x526.jpg" target="_blank">spectator dashboard</a> to give the comms a better picture on the state of upgrades (who's sick of asking their team 'what upgrade did we lose?')<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My thoughts on your ideas:
Don't need to que multiple arcs/macs, noobs build enough of these as is. The game is meant to be players versus players, not players versus turrets.
Predropping power nodes is the worst thing ever. All the nodes used to be pre-set on mineshaft and it sucked. Some of them still are actually, and aliens will sit forever attacking every node and then marines will walk by and decide to rebuild it, and it's just annoying. Doesn't matter how many times you tell them waterpumps or whatever is useless, they go back. If you want them to build power nodes, just drop a building and the node will be there.
That isn't done because it takes longer, that's pretty much it. In the time it takes you to recognize something is happening, and take action you probably have almost lost a building. So it's best to just get people immediately where you need them instead of clicking more stuff.
Don't need a red patch on the map since the building flashes and usually shows what's attacking it.
Ok dropping health and ammo on a moving target is hard enough while comming, especially since there's so many places it can fall or get stuck on. Just simply no to this. There is no way you can actually effectively drop health or ammo with the mini map.
Drifters don't need to say anything, the minimap says it for them. Seriously I don't want to hear a door bell every time someone comes near a drifter, it's not a ######ing Halloween decoration.
The minimap is far too small to have names on it. There's enough information as is without cluttering it with names everywhere.
If you want to know what upgrades you lost, jump out of the hive and press b. Or better yet remember where you put things. Your team is more likely than not going to yell at you if they lost something important. If I lose celerity I immediately say hey where the hell is celerity. It's like taking a shower and the water gets turned off, you notice it.
Don't need to que multiple arcs/macs, noobs build enough of these as is. The game is meant to be players versus players, not players versus turrets.
Predropping power nodes is the worst thing ever. All the nodes used to be pre-set on mineshaft and it sucked. Some of them still are actually, and aliens will sit forever attacking every node and then marines will walk by and decide to rebuild it, and it's just annoying. Doesn't matter how many times you tell them waterpumps or whatever is useless, they go back. If you want them to build power nodes, just drop a building and the node will be there.
That isn't done because it takes longer, that's pretty much it. In the time it takes you to recognize something is happening, and take action you probably have almost lost a building. So it's best to just get people immediately where you need them instead of clicking more stuff.
Don't need a red patch on the map since the building flashes and usually shows what's attacking it.
Ok dropping health and ammo on a moving target is hard enough while comming, especially since there's so many places it can fall or get stuck on. Just simply no to this. There is no way you can actually effectively drop health or ammo with the mini map.
Drifters don't need to say anything, the minimap says it for them. Seriously I don't want to hear a door bell every time someone comes near a drifter, it's not a ######ing Halloween decoration.
The minimap is far too small to have names on it. There's enough information as is without cluttering it with names everywhere.
If you want to know what upgrades you lost, jump out of the hive and press b. Or better yet remember where you put things. Your team is more likely than not going to yell at you if they lost something important. If I lose celerity I immediately say hey where the hell is celerity. It's like taking a shower and the water gets turned off, you notice it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
"dog in a manger" alert...
I'm just curious. But are you fat and really really lazy?
minimap needs to convey much more information than it should. I would start with the <a href="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=108936055&searchtext=minimap" target="_blank">minimap colored players</a>, and form some kind of identifier for minimap names. I can understand how it would be quite annoying in larger servers, but it's quite useful. Quakeworld solves this by allowing players to have a "shortname" that appears for teamchat communications that I believe is limited to 3-4 characters.
agreed on basic changes like the MAC range identifier of course. there skill difference should come in the positioning.
sometimes I swear if NS2 didn't have a clock on the scoreboard people would defend it as immersive...
lol...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you re going to LOl @ answers that are made to you, then LOL @ your proposals.
End of participation
I really like this idea.
What's wrong with having the spectator layout's ideas stuck onto the marine commander screen? A vertical dashboard showing marine names/weapons/location/health/armor would be AMAZING. It could work for the aliens, too.
Why not have Drifters alert the Khammander? That's what they're made for.
Absolutely to double tapping your bound keys to jump to what you've set. (If I set some crags or a robotics factory or etc. to a key, double tapping that key should instantly move my camera to it.)
All of these ideas raise the skill floor for commanding and help make the game more fun for new players while increasing awareness for veteran players as well.
However, I disagree with some of these ideas.
I would not like to see a follow command on the MACs. MAC trains are annoying enough as is. (Wouldn't mind patrol routes to repair bases, however.) [NOTE: You can hold shift to set multiple waypoints for MACs to make them go down the route you want them to follow.]
Do not pre-drop all of the power nodes. This will be extremely annoying when they fix the power nodes to be damageable while building again.
Beacons are fine, and they definitely shouldn't be something you can cancel. Forcing a beacon is an extremely important tactic for aliens. I would rather see little observatory icons on the tray you normally see MACs or Driters without tasks with small location texts above them to select them (only for observatories with a CC nearby, no duplicates, one obs icon per CC with obs nearby).
No to names on the minimap. Dashboards with player information will cover that.
And no to more ping options. Although this may help commanders without a microphone, I, personally, would rather see more emphasis put on voice communication with the team.
And that's how I would improve the commander UI. Feel free to disagree.
This phenomenon has been around for decades in the computing world. Remember when GUI was first developed in 1974 with the Xerox Alto, became commercially available in 1984 with Apple's Macintosh but didn't become a mainstream standard until 1995 with Microsoft Win 95? It took the computer nerds 19 years to finally accept the fact that mouse/graphics is the way to go instead of keyboard/text. <u><b>19 years!</b></u>
This phenomenon still continues today. You have people who disapprove the use of GPS and e-reader because "why do I need that stuff when I can just read a real map/book?". Remember when the first iPhone came out so many people bashed its UI because it didn't have a physical keypad? Five years on, who's still making smart phones with physical keypad today?
Sorry to sound harsh but I have no respect for nay sayers, they are the ones who are always holding back great innovations in the tech industry. I remember a great quote from Steve Jobs when he was asked in an interview on people's inability to type proficiently on QWERTY keyboards and how he plans to solve that problem, he simply replied 'Death will eventually take care of everything'
I dunno .. in NS1 this was used alot to fool aliens. 1 skulk that gets into marine base shouldn't have to flee because there 'might' be aload of marines beaconed in .. it's an unfair tactic imho .. it's fun as marine comm .. but I'd personally be against it
I actually never got fooled by a canceled beacon in NS1 because you hear a very loud "swoosh" sound when the marines get mass ported in. Again, to me, that's a L2P issue and experience come in time. So to people who are worried that this might break the balance: again, NS wasn't, isn't and won't be balanced to accommodate newbs. If it was the case then UWE can simply kiss competitive play goodbye.
This phenomenon still continues today. You have people who disapprove the use of GPS and e-reader because "why do I need that stuff when I can just read a real map/book?". Remember when the first iPhone came out so many people bashed its UI because it didn't have a physical keypad? Five years on, who's still making smart phones with physical keypad today?
Sorry to sound harsh but I have no respect for nay sayers, they are the ones who are always holding back great innovations in the tech industry. I remember a great quote from Steve Jobs when he was asked in an interview on people not being to type efficiently on QWERTY keyboards and how he plans to solve that problem, he simply replied 'Death will eventually take care of everything'<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hate the future, my book ran out of batteries...
yeah and in 20 years I bet you'll be one of the protesters in the "ban the internet to keep the libraries open" parade.
Gotta agree with this, you could run the aliens like puppets through the power of threat.
<!--quoteo(post=2057406:date=Jan 8 2013, 02:08 AM:name=Amb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Amb @ Jan 8 2013, 02:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2057406"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I actually never got fooled by a canceled beacon in NS1 because you hear a very loud "swoosh" sound when the marines get mass ported in. Again, to me, that's a L2P issue and experience come in time. So to people who are worried that this might break the balance: again, NS wasn't, isn't and won't be balanced to accommodate newbs. If it was the case then UWE can simply kiss competitive play goodbye.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Usually you want to get going BEFORE they arrive...
yup and if I don't hear the final "swoosh" sound, I'd go straight back into their base knowing it's a canceled beacon and they just lost 10 res for it. /flex
Also: The ability to rebind keys, please.
Yeah, but maybe that split second was all they needed (slim chance I know but...it could happen).
Part of me wants to do a paintover but I get paid to do that all day and just can't make myself design more HUD when I go home... :( //effortgnomes
I like the OP's suggestions. I'd like to see Powernodes get a hover-icon above them in unbuilt locations so the comm can drive-by-drop them instead of double clicking at least. Pre-seeding all the nodes I'm mixed on; on the one hand there is less for the Comm to worry about which is good, but there is more clutter for Marines to sort out what they need to be doing (combined with the auto-waypoint for building it'd distract noobs the way cyst chopping does).