This game is extremely unfriendly for new players. DEVs need to address this ASAP

MrChokeMrChoke Join Date: 2012-12-13 Member: 174990Members, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Shadow
edited December 2012 in NS2 General Discussion
With Christmas and all the Steam sales, we have a lot of new players. And the natural urge for a new player is to be a human holding a gun and not some species of alien totally foreign. Guess what happens when there are even a few new players on the marines versus aliens who are not new? The worst, blow-out, stupid, no fun games I have ever seen in online gaming.

I have been trying to get a handful of friends to start playing this game. I had one friend playing last night. We played 9 games as marines. We got absolutely blown out all 9 times. Most of the time the marines could not even hold an RT for more than a few seconds. Now I am not a new player. I know what the marines need to do to win. I have seen them win many times. Overall I'd say the marines win almost half the time. But when I try to look through the eyes of a new player the way I it was running last night, I would have uninstalled this game in a heartbeat. Word of mouth is very important to a game like this. I can't build a case to say tihs is a great game to my friends. After last night I am telling them I will let you know when they fix it.

I don't think it needs a major overhaul. It needs changes so that the marines do not get killed in a 1/2 a second in early game. Time and time again all I was seeing is one experienced skulk kill 1, 2, even 3 marines in a matter of a second or two. Now don't start telling me all this and that on how the marines need to aim better, stay together, yada yada yada. I know how to play. But a new player will and is getting killed time and time again as marine. And you multiply this ease of taking down 1 or more marines by one alien into the entire alien team base rushing and you get quite literally the worst gaming experience I have seen in a long long time.

Here are a few simple suggestions that I know are easy to do. Make the marines gun clips larger. Make the reload time shorter. Give him more armor at game start. There are many easy ways to adresss this. And if it throws the balance off a bit then adjust the aliens a bit if needed. But FIX THIS problem. This game is getting uninstalled left and right I am sure of it. And it doesn't deserve it. Its bad timing that Christmas came along with this problem being seen by all of these new players. All the more important to address it soon.
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Comments

  • LocklearLocklear [nexzil]kerrigan Join Date: 2012-05-01 Member: 151403Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, WC 2013 - Shadow
    NS2 is not an easy game. You can't adjust balanced armor/damage/ammo values to make up for new players being poor at the game.

    What could be done is make the game more intuitive and include perhaps an AI/training system to help new players have a runthrough of a "real game" before they get on the field.

    But idk, it's rough for new players for sure. And I agree that it's a problem.. but not one solved by breaking the balance for competent players.
  • SkackySkacky Join Date: 2005-06-05 Member: 53189Members
    Sorry, but giving Marines larger clips will not solve anything if they cannot aim properly, and this will give an advantage to very good shots. Shooting a Skulk isn't easy but it's a lot easier than in NS1 and I usually collect the kills when I play Marine, unless I'm cornered by two or more Skulks with no bullets left in my LMG. The reload time is ridiculously short too and is the perfect time frame for a Skulk to strike, it's fine as it is. There is no need to change it. And don't forget that your commander has access to upgrades that can increase the damage you make and increase your armor. Also, I think Marines are overall harder to play than Aliens when you begin the game (shooting and mechanics), so I'd recommend you and your friends play a couple of games as Aliens first so you can understand how Skulks attack and plan their moves.
  • VolcanoVolcano Join Date: 2011-07-27 Member: 112496Members, Constellation
    One does not simply adjust the game to players not willing to learn
  • TerranigmaTerranigma Join Date: 2010-04-03 Member: 71158Members
    edited December 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=2053693:date=Dec 31 2012, 02:56 PM:name=MrChoke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MrChoke @ Dec 31 2012, 02:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2053693"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Here are a few simple suggestions that I know are easy to do. Make the marines gun clips larger. Make the reload time shorter. Give him more armor at game start. There are many easy ways to adresss this. And if it throws the balance off a bit then adjust the aliens a bit if needed. But FIX THIS problem. This game is getting uninstalled left and right I am sure of it. And it doesn't deserve it. Its bad timing that Christmas came along with this problem being seen by all of these new players. All the more important to address it soon.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Simply, no.

    The problem, as you mentioned already, is not that marines are too weak early on but that that new players get beaten up by more experienced players. Now when that is true - and it is, in fact! - then the solution cannot be to increase the armour as well of fire power of the marines because of the gap in terms of <i>skill</i>. The problem, as you've pointed out, are <b>not</b> not the marines itself because even teams, in terms of experience and skill, will probably result in a somewhat even match. Tweaking the balance for <i>all</i> players becaues new players have a hard time during their first rounds, will result in a even more broken balance for the rest of the playerbase.

    If anything, give <i>rookie</i> players some sort of boost so they don't get eaten up that easily - though, I don't really like this idea at all. What new players need are more information, tips, hints, advices, maybe some sort of squad-system and simply a less frustrating start. But soften the initial experience for new players but tweaking the overall balance in their favour will result in a broken balance for everyone else. You cannot really compensate lack of skill due to balance. If I'd play say StarCraft² against an experienced player, I would get beaten up in no time. The <i>solution</i> to this problem cannot be to give my units more firepower, hp, more starting buildings, etc. but I simply have to <i>learn</i> to play the game.

    If new players, especially as Marines, have most of the time no clue what to do and what the game is about in the first place, then I think that can ruin a gaming experience. The solution, as other's have mentioned it again and again, are more hints, tips, etc. for rookies - I think getting beaten up by experienced players is something everyone is, or at least should, be able to get along with when he starts to play a new game he doesn't know. What can frustrate people is, when they die and neither know why, how or for what reason. I mean, there are tutorials at Youtube but frankly, when I install a game I would be really pissed off if I had first go to Youtube to watch some videos. I want the game to explain itself to me while I play it. Currently, NaSe2 does a bad job in that aspect. Meddling around with the balance, though, won't solve the problem but just cause many more.

    Ideas:

    If you get killed by another player, show the player a pop-up - he hasn't anything to do while he respawns anyway - where you get information about the weapon or lifeform that killed you. You furthermore become tiny advices how to cope with that weapon or lifeform. If you see a structure you get a little in-game pop-up that briefly explains the function of this structure, etc. That game simply needs more explanations. You cannot expect new players to browse through Wikis, watch Youtube videos or keep asking other players.
  • WakeWake Join Date: 2003-03-05 Member: 14351Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=2053699:date=Dec 31 2012, 10:15 AM:name=Terranigma)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Terranigma @ Dec 31 2012, 10:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2053699"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->... What new players need are more information, tips, hints, advices, ...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I remember an old NS1 School initiative, learning evenings sessions ;-)
  • CommunistWithAGunCommunistWithAGun Local Propaganda Guy Join Date: 2003-04-30 Member: 15953Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2053693:date=Dec 31 2012, 08:56 AM:name=MrChoke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MrChoke @ Dec 31 2012, 08:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2053693"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->With Christmas and all the Steam sales, we have a lot of new players. And the natural urge for a new player is to be a human holding a gun and not some species of alien totally foreign. Guess what happens when there are even a few new players on the marines versus aliens who are not new? The worst, blow-out, stupid, no fun games I have ever seen in online gaming.

    I have been trying to get a handful of friends to start playing this game. I had one friend playing last night. We played 9 games as marines. We got absolutely blown out all 9 times. Most of the time the marines could not even hold an RT for more than a few seconds. Now I am not a new player. I know what the marines need to do to win. I have seen them win many times. Overall I'd say the marines win almost half the time. But when I try to look through the eyes of a new player the way I it was running last night, I would have uninstalled this game in a heartbeat. Word of mouth is very important to a game like this. I can't build a case to say tihs is a great game to my friends. After last night I am telling them I will let you know when they fix it.

    I don't think it needs a major overhaul. It needs changes so that the marines do not get killed in a 1/2 a second in early game. Time and time again all I was seeing is one experienced skulk kill 1, 2, even 3 marines in a matter of a second or two. Now don't start telling me all this and that on how the marines need to aim better, stay together, yada yada yada. I know how to play. But a new player will and is getting killed time and time again as marine. And you multiply this ease of taking down 1 or more marines by one alien into the entire alien team base rushing and you get quite literally the worst gaming experience I have seen in a long long time.

    Here are a few simple suggestions that I know are easy to do. Make the marines gun clips larger. Make the reload time shorter. Give him more armor at game start. There are many easy ways to adresss this. And if it throws the balance off a bit then adjust the aliens a bit if needed. But FIX THIS problem. This game is getting uninstalled left and right I am sure of it. And it doesn't deserve it. Its bad timing that Christmas came along with this problem being seen by all of these new players. All the more important to address it soon.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Re-balancing the game for the lowest common denominator will ruin the game. This is a bad idea. If your team is infested with rookies, you've tried to help, they either don't listen or don't care, find a new server. Sucks but you gotta do what you gotta do. If you want a higher quality game go look for pickup games. Pubs are and shall always be terrible examples of organized play.
  • NeokenNeoken Bruges, Belgium Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27447Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester
    edited December 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=2053693:date=Dec 31 2012, 10:56 AM:name=MrChoke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MrChoke @ Dec 31 2012, 10:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2053693"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->With Christmas and all the Steam sales, we have a lot of new players. And the natural urge for a new player is to be a human holding a gun and not some species of alien totally foreign. Guess what happens when there are even a few new players on the marines versus aliens who are not new? The worst, blow-out, stupid, no fun games I have ever seen in online gaming.

    I have been trying to get a handful of friends to start playing this game. I had one friend playing last night. We played 9 games as marines. We got absolutely blown out all 9 times. Most of the time the marines could not even hold an RT for more than a few seconds. Now I am not a new player. I know what the marines need to do to win. I have seen them win many times. Overall I'd say the marines win almost half the time. But when I try to look through the eyes of a new player the way I it was running last night, I would have uninstalled this game in a heartbeat. Word of mouth is very important to a game like this. I can't build a case to say tihs is a great game to my friends. After last night I am telling them I will let you know when they fix it.

    I don't think it needs a major overhaul. It needs changes so that the marines do not get killed in a 1/2 a second in early game. Time and time again all I was seeing is one experienced skulk kill 1, 2, even 3 marines in a matter of a second or two. Now don't start telling me all this and that on how the marines need to aim better, stay together, yada yada yada. I know how to play. But a new player will and is getting killed time and time again as marine. And you multiply this ease of taking down 1 or more marines by one alien into the entire alien team base rushing and you get quite literally the worst gaming experience I have seen in a long long time.

    Here are a few simple suggestions that I know are easy to do. Make the marines gun clips larger. Make the reload time shorter. Give him more armor at game start. There are many easy ways to adresss this. And if it throws the balance off a bit then adjust the aliens a bit if needed. But FIX THIS problem. This game is getting uninstalled left and right I am sure of it. And it doesn't deserve it. Its bad timing that Christmas came along with this problem being seen by all of these new players. All the more important to address it soon.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    A rookie playing as a skulk against a decent marine will die just as often. So, what to do? Make the skulk bites do 1/3 more damage, increase skulk speed, buff skulk hp? You don't want those new skulk players to get beaten by better players do you? That would be terribly unbalanced, right?

    Seriously, new players die more often, it's like this in every single game, unless the game requires zero skill. They play more, they get better, they die less often. The only thing NS2 can improve upon in this regard is a better tutorial (not just videos or explore mode, but a real ingame walkthrough explaining the basic mechanics and strategies would help).
  • joederpjoederp Join Date: 2012-11-02 Member: 165992Members
    So you want to dumb the game down so that new players can be effective with Marines and win games when they first start playing? Are you serious?? Name one other game in the world that you can buy today and be proficient at multiplayer. EVERY game has a learning curve and when it comes to online play that curve is even greater. If new players are too short sighted to see the value in this game, and quit / uninstall because they aren't instantly winning matches, then good riddance.
  • CommunistWithAGunCommunistWithAGun Local Propaganda Guy Join Date: 2003-04-30 Member: 15953Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2053713:date=Dec 31 2012, 09:45 AM:name=joederp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (joederp @ Dec 31 2012, 09:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2053713"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If new players are too short sighted to see the value in this game, and quit / uninstall because they aren't instantly winning matches, then good riddance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
  • DestherDesther Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165195Members
    Combat gametype is good for newbies to practice aiming with very little down-time and less slippery-slope advantages,
  • TerranigmaTerranigma Join Date: 2010-04-03 Member: 71158Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2053702:date=Dec 31 2012, 03:27 PM:name=Wake)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wake @ Dec 31 2012, 03:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2053702"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I remember an old NS1 School initiative, learning evenings sessions ;-)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    That requires the players to want to learn the game. I mean, if I install a game I want to play it and learn it by-the-way, but I guess I wouldn't invest the time to learn the game like I learn another language or some sort of skill. Now that I think about it, I guess it would already help the game a lot if there would be way more in-game hints, say, information about structures if you hover over it with the mouse, information about <i>what</i> has killed you - PlanetSide2 does this and it helps a lot! - and so on. Expecting that someone goes to Youtube, learns the game in some sort of schooling-environment requires you to invest a lot of time only to learn a game which probably isn't any fun so far for you.


    I don't support the idea of the thread creator but he has a point. I enjoy playing on rookie servers because I think someone needs to be there showing them how it's done but, well, for many of them the first games where not much fun and a game, wheter you're are good at it or not, should be fun. At least, you should know what you can and should do - but the game doesn't say that. More in-game information should be enough, I think. Sure, they will get beaten up but that's true any time you start playing something new. I don't think that's a big deal, if at least you know what killed for, for what reason, how it can be avoided and you at least grasp the basic idea what the game is all about. As a new player, you'll probably see a lot of stuff standing around and have no clue what's all that for. I think that is frustrating, dying isn't.
  • waflzwaflz Join Date: 2012-09-07 Member: 158459Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2053693:date=Dec 31 2012, 06:56 AM:name=MrChoke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MrChoke @ Dec 31 2012, 06:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2053693"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->With Christmas and all the Steam sales, we have a lot of new players. And the natural urge for a new player is to be a human holding a gun and not some species of alien totally foreign. Guess what happens when there are even a few new players on the marines versus aliens who are not new? The worst, blow-out, stupid, no fun games I have ever seen in online gaming.

    I have been trying to get a handful of friends to start playing this game. I had one friend playing last night. We played 9 games as marines. We got absolutely blown out all 9 times. Most of the time the marines could not even hold an RT for more than a few seconds. Now I am not a new player. I know what the marines need to do to win. I have seen them win many times. Overall I'd say the marines win almost half the time. But when I try to look through the eyes of a new player the way I it was running last night, I would have uninstalled this game in a heartbeat. Word of mouth is very important to a game like this. I can't build a case to say tihs is a great game to my friends. After last night I am telling them I will let you know when they fix it.

    I don't think it needs a major overhaul. It needs changes so that the marines do not get killed in a 1/2 a second in early game. Time and time again all I was seeing is one experienced skulk kill 1, 2, even 3 marines in a matter of a second or two. Now don't start telling me all this and that on how the marines need to aim better, stay together, yada yada yada. I know how to play. But a new player will and is getting killed time and time again as marine. And you multiply this ease of taking down 1 or more marines by one alien into the entire alien team base rushing and you get quite literally the worst gaming experience I have seen in a long long time.

    Here are a few simple suggestions that I know are easy to do. Make the marines gun clips larger. Make the reload time shorter. Give him more armor at game start. There are many easy ways to adresss this. And if it throws the balance off a bit then adjust the aliens a bit if needed. But FIX THIS problem. This game is getting uninstalled left and right I am sure of it. And it doesn't deserve it. Its bad timing that Christmas came along with this problem being seen by all of these new players. All the more important to address it soon.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    Dude i dont know what to say, every game has a learning curve, why dont you take the turn to learn it. You're talking about making balances changes when you just started the game.
  • VeNeMVeNeM Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 928Members
    ok so what multiplayer fps is "friendly" to newbies? Theres always a learning curve with every game.
  • piratedavepiratedave Join Date: 2012-03-10 Member: 148561Members
    edited December 2012
    this is also an admin problem

    i joined a rookie server a few hours ago with my friend and what i saw was blatant pub stomping by 2 skilled alien players (they had clan tags too -_-).

    Theres also RAMPANT team stacking going on in just about every server.

    NS1 had these issues, and NS2 seems to be worse -_- Just what are rookie servers for anyway ? They just seem to be pub stomping grounds and thats it, i hardly see anyone else trying to help noobs .... Admins should start policing their rookie servers and kick/ban these people, They arent helping anyone, they are enjoying owning these new players and what we are left with are new players thinking "balance is horrible" "Ns2 is rife with hackers" "NS2 is not fun"
  • VeNeMVeNeM Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 928Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2053698:date=Dec 31 2012, 10:10 AM:name=Volcano)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Volcano @ Dec 31 2012, 10:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2053698"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One does not simply adjust the game to players not willing to learn<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    lmaooooooo!
  • luminalumina Join Date: 2012-06-15 Member: 153300Members
    You can't balance a game based on what noobs are doing. You will completely ruin the game if you do. Here is why.

    This thread claims that aliens are OP. Marines are getting slaughtered because aliens can kill them so quickly. Marine teams are just getting run over. Etc...

    I was reading the steam forums last night and a new player had a detailed balance thread. It was very similar to this. He was claiming aliens don't stand a chance. Marines kill aliens too fast. Melee vs range is unfair. He is seeing aliens get run over in every game. The game will never survive with such poor balance. Etc...

    So which noob should the developers listen to? You both had the exact opposite experience. Is it really possible for you both to be right?

    If someone doesn't want to l2p, this game isn't for them anyway. If you are seeing one team stacked all the time, switch servers. There are some servers where people know each other and conti.ually stack teams. You won't have that same experience on every server.
  • m0rdm0rd Join Date: 2012-11-26 Member: 173223Members
    I try to go as easy as I can when I know the server is full of new players. Even ones without the rookie tag, you can still smell the fresh Marine meat. But even then, what can I do? I always offer to help whenever I can. I always pick random and 95% of the time it sends me to Aliens, and in these games I feel almost forced to go Gorge just so i'm not killing their morale and causing them to F4. But even then, messing with the balance like that is not the answer. Once they start learning the mechanics and getting the hang of aiming the game will open up to them. Good marines should be beating good Aliens in most cases, at least in the early game.
  • MestaritonttuMestaritonttu Join Date: 2004-07-29 Member: 30229Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
    Take note: balance at release WAS FINE despite an influx of new players.

    Why is that?
  • AmbAmb Join Date: 2012-11-09 Member: 168647Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    <!--quoteo(post=2053693:date=Jan 1 2013, 01:56 AM:name=MrChoke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MrChoke @ Jan 1 2013, 01:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2053693"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And the natural urge for a new player is to be a human holding a gun and not some species of alien totally foreign. Guess what happens when there are even a few new players on the marines versus aliens who are not new? The worst, blow-out, stupid, no fun games I have ever seen in online gaming.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    welcome to the world of Natural Selection, it's been this way since 2003 NS1 days.
  • ZaggyZaggy NullPointerException The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-12-10 Member: 24214Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Onos, Subnautica Playtester
    I agree that learning curve is very steep for NS2.
    A training/tutorial map would be a great idea to get the greens to learn the game without getting stomped by regulars.
    That or a friendly pub where you can practice with fellow greens.
    Some sort of ranking system would be a great help, where you join only servers with people with the same amount of playtime and kill/death ratio.
  • MestaritonttuMestaritonttu Join Date: 2004-07-29 Member: 30229Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
    I wonder if the word "rookie" is confusing. Who uses it anyway? Rookie? That sounds like a military rank or something. It should just read "NEWBIE" with caps. "NEWBIE FRIENDLY SERVER". Everybody gets that.
  • luminalumina Join Date: 2012-06-15 Member: 153300Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2053737:date=Dec 31 2012, 10:31 AM:name=Mestaritonttu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mestaritonttu @ Dec 31 2012, 10:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2053737"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I wonder if the word "rookie" is confusing. Who uses it anyway? Rookie? That sounds like a military rank or something. It should just read "NEWBIE" with caps. "NEWBIE FRIENDLY SERVER". Everybody gets that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    It is used a lot in sports. I haven't heard it used in the military.

    Is this only a US thing or something? Why wouldn't people understand rookie?
  • MestaritonttuMestaritonttu Join Date: 2004-07-29 Member: 30229Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
    edited December 2012
    It's pretty much never used in gaming around EU is all.

    Edit: I only know the word from some war movie and a game I used to play when I was five.
  • DeathbaneDeathbane Join Date: 2012-12-30 Member: 176770Members
    As a new player, i found that after only 5 or 6 hours play i was over competent, getting to the top of scoreboards on rookie servers. Maybe this was because
    I used to play alot of the original AVP game, which this reminds me of alot somehow, specially in how the skulk is played.

    It was a blast to figure things out and enjoy the game, even when we were getting stomped. The only thing i had a problem was was the alien khammander GUI sometimes obscuring upgrades, where the upgrades where placed wasnt also consistent. Also the learning curve as a marine commander is pretty severe, i still havnt got it down what to build when but i think it will be fine with more playtime.

    Some people really do want everything handed to them on a plate these days. When you buy a game, i thought part of the fun was figuring it out and *playing* around with it.
  • TaylorFactorTaylorFactor Join Date: 2004-05-01 Member: 28362Members
    Before dumping the issue on the shoulders of the Devs, how many of these new folks actually choose to use the tutorials?

    As the saying goes, "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink."
  • DestherDesther Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165195Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2053744:date=Dec 31 2012, 04:57 PM:name=TaylorFactor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TaylorFactor @ Dec 31 2012, 04:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2053744"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Before dumping the issue on the shoulders of the Devs, how many of these new folks actually choose to use the tutorials?

    As the saying goes, "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Tutorials would be better as scripted in-game sequences that are kept very brief and in small chunks. Nobody wants to load up a new game and have to wade through 6 hours of videos to know what's going on.
  • MestaritonttuMestaritonttu Join Date: 2004-07-29 Member: 30229Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
    edited December 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=2053748:date=Dec 31 2012, 07:10 PM:name=Desther)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Desther @ Dec 31 2012, 07:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2053748"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Tutorials would be better as scripted in-game sequences that are kept very brief and in small chunks. Nobody wants to load up a new game and have to wade through 6 hours of videos to know what's going on.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yup, the current tutorials are simply put awful. A video tutorial can be just fine, but if it starts like "Ooookay, welcome to this NS2 tutorial, my name is Whocares and I'll be covering Youdon'thaveaclue, as you know there are many elements bla blah blah and I'll be going through them BLAH BLAH *presses [x] and goes play and learn by mistakes*
  • elodeaelodea Editlodea Join Date: 2009-06-20 Member: 67877Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited December 2012
    What about the new player on the other team who won 9 times in a row? I won't say you're wrong about the unfun experience of new players, but your suggestions are coming from the wrong direction. You can't determine fun simply by number of losses or wins, and you can't randomly suggest marine buffs without understanding the effect on <b>alien new players</b>. If UWE put in your changes, someone else just like you is going to make a thread, only about some marine player killing 9 new player skulks with a single lmg + pistol. *edit*70 bullets, faster reload?!, <b>and</b> more starting armour? When marines already have early game advantage? I'm not sure you understand what you're asking for.

    The game should be fun and compelling to play regardless of losing or winning. What's probably the biggest overall issue when it comes to unfun is that losses are unnecessarily drawn out due to high spawn rates etc.

    But yea, skulk movement, animations, and glancing bite are pretty op with equally skilled teams at lower skill levels. Don't expect a fix to this any time soon though. Even if UWE were to acknowledge it as a pressing issue, perfecting walljump (bhop ain't coming back) so it scales smoothly with skill isn't something done overnight.
  • WitchcraftTheEvertrollingWitchcraftTheEvertrolling Join Date: 2012-12-15 Member: 175185Members
    I dont know why so many people want to change the game to reward players for being unskilled and stupid. Just the same with all this "WE NEED SUPERPOWERS FOR TURTLEBREAKING" because 12v12 rookie servers take to long for.

    Just no, NS2 is a competitive shooter, rookies have to learn this game like the veterans did before. If they dont want to because its to hard, then they shall go back to CoD or other faceroll games, NS2 is obviously not theirs. I rather like to play a good but hard game with a small community then a fastfood ###### game with a large community.

    In my opinion devs should make the game even harder, especially on Alien side.
  • KilledByDeathKilledByDeath Join Date: 2012-12-26 Member: 176308Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Games that ignore the "lowest common denominator" also tend to crash harder then a led airship. This whole attitude about NS2 being some super secret club where only the chosen few get to enjoy it is pretty horrible and will get this game's community now where fast.

    I've seen too many games where the community is smug as ###### with the "lol go back to CoD" and then a few months later crying about how it takes 20 minutes to find a full server.
This discussion has been closed.