Would more darkness be actually beneficial?
godrifle
Join Date: 2006-12-01 Member: 58815Members
Join Date: 2006-12-01 Member: 58815Members
We only get darkness when a power node is shut off, and even then it's only temporarily as backup generators kick in pretty quick. The lighting effects in this game are impressive, and having more in-the-dark confrontations would be atmospheric and would add more gameplay depth/variety. Maybe there could be a destroyable "Lights Node", or have all unpowered power node rooms be dark. Marines currently enjoy the vast majority of the game in the light, but if we changed it to be more dark... you'd have more people changing their monitor settings to see better... definitely bad for pub play.
How do you feel about darkness? Should we see it more often?
How do you feel about darkness? Should we see it more often?
Comments
Remove the "powered" aspect of Marine buildings, make the power node much weaker while being much easier to repair.
Make darkness a tactical decision, remove the big easy "turn everything off" button in every key point, add depth to combat while increasing Marine build flexibility.
I like the dark/stealth aspects of the game which the Spark engine beautifully accomplishes (remember Doom 3?), but it's superficial since competitive players will do anything to get fullbright or high contrast between players/environment and I'm not sure much can be done about that. Thankfully the game does not rely solely on this aspect to be fun or competitive, as the diverse levels, team tactics, combat tactics and ventilation systems offset this problem. I always try to throw something positive into the rant because despite the flaws - some of which can be fixed - this game will remain my favorite for years to come.
there have been many discussions and even a "light mod"(cysts and alien struktures would emit light)-sadly it was never finished.
my take is this:
alien hives should not sit in fully lit rooms, they have to be dark.
aliens in general prefer darkness = infestation should not only destroy powernodes but also deaktivate that horrible red emergency lighting.
all rooms can start lit, even the start hive room(to not give away start possition), but after a minute or so the lights should fail.
i would apply that mechanic to all infested rooms, so if the infestation spreads to a room a timer should start running and after a minute or 2 it should count as fully infestet=no artificial lights, cysts and alien structures should emit light.
i would apply that mechanic to all infested rooms, so if the infestation spreads to a room a timer should start running and after a minute or 2 it should count as fully infestet=no artificial lights, cysts and alien structures should emit light.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like the idea of infestation killing power nodes but how do we stop people from aggressive cysting with the goal of overrunning a tech point to kill the power with infestation? That seems a bit OP to me. Maybe the infestation can only kill the power nodes in rooms with no marine buildings? Also, the power should go out once the room is completely infested (or largely infested), not with just one cyst hitting the power node.
-edit-
For clarity, I'm talking about vacant areas. I do not think that this is a good idea as an aggressive tactic for clearing rooms.
agreed: powernode damage only with no other marine buildings and a decent infestation of the whole room.... room-sizes vary greatly, i would have liked to propose a needed number of cysts, but its either to much for small rooms or to little for big ones....
to measure the degree of infestation could be difficult
I do agree though that even emergency lighting should go away where there is a hive in the room, atleast that would be pretty cool.
The biggest problem i have with lighting right now is that all rooms start out fully lit when there is no power node yet. This means that alien main is always fully lit unless marines build a power node for the aliens to destroy.
EDIT: Maybe the red emergency lights could make a smaller amount of light to make the dark corners bigger.
Even better.
- Power off is a good idea as I'd prefer to see more darkness in play.
- On the suggestions here I'd say a compromise.
1) Power sockets get 3 states, plugged, unplugged and infested
2) Marines can plug in as normal to create power nodes.
3) Empty sockets can become infested if a cyst is placed near them and the infestation covers them.
4) When a power node is destroyed the back up power still come one
5) If that destroyed node is covered with infestation then it "melts" the remains of the node off and begins the infestation timer
6) After you have a mature cyst by it then an infested node forms as such, think vine like structures coming out and connecting to ground infestation
7) Cysts and Harvesters give off a glow.
8) In rooms with power nodes established Marines get there tactical net working, this works like the scanner function but with line of sight. essentially in rooms with the power node plugged in if a Marine spots an enemy its shows them up scanner style for their entire team.
So Infestation doesn't destroy nodes but can infest sockets.
aliens get the advantage of their enhanced vision and darkness in their areas while Marines get the advantage of their battle network in areas they've plugged in
Remove the "powered" aspect of Marine buildings, make the power node much weaker while being much easier to repair.
Make darkness a tactical decision, remove the big easy "turn everything off" button in every key point, add depth to combat while increasing Marine build flexibility.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is my vote. My dream solution would be something like this:
1. Separate structures from power, make power nodes simply light switches that are easy to kill and repair.
2. Revert the "unsocketed" mechanic and give all rooms active power nodes at the start that aliens can kill if they want. #1 would mean that this is no longer too tedious for aliens or too punishing for marines.
3. Remove the "blackout -> emergency red" mechanic. Settle for a compromise - unpowered rooms are very dark, but not pitch black.
4. Give aliens a subtle passive night vision effect to make the darkness more navigable - not like alien vision, but rather just make unlit areas appear a little less dark
5. Stretch goal: Implement cool ambient lighting from cysts
Basically, separating structures from the power gives us a lot more freedom to make the lights a meaningful gameplay mechanic in their own right.
How about this...
Alien vision only works in rooms where the power is off. This would require that all nodes be installed at the beginning of the game, which I'm fine with. That allows aliens to kill them at the very start if they want to spend the time doing it. So yeah, if they want to take the time to take out power nodes, then give them that advantage. If not, then they don't get that advantage. Fair? (Hey, I'll even toss up a suggestion on moderator with this in mind and see where it goes.)
Darkness by default is great from an environmental standpoint, but awful from a balance standpoint. If darkness is the default, then aliens need a 'weakness' when the power is NOT off.
Hey, I'm still trying to get people to endorse the idea of laser sights on marines. If you look at <a href="http://www.google.com/moderator/#9/e=2055e8&g=laser+sight" target="_blank">this suggestion</a>, you'll see UWE concept art link. Can you imagine laser sights in a darkened room?! I think that would look amazing.
I doubt it would be hard to have competitive settings and public settings be different. MLG manage it all the time after all
/\ Do this /\ This!!!! /\
Wait I now feel like the only one who doesn't do this now.
I tend to only use alien vision when I know I'm vsing mart marines who try to trap people into making mistakes by using their torches.
Normally I actually go without Alien vision so I can see where the torch light is coming from and I will know where the enemy is looking so I can make sure I'm not in their line of sight.
Funny, I'm putting that exact thing into my map XD.
Something like this? (Slightly darker in game)
<a href="http://i.imgur.com/AxAU7.jpg" target="_blank">http://i.imgur.com/AxAU7.jpg</a>
<a href="http://i.imgur.com/qni6J.jpg" target="_blank">http://i.imgur.com/qni6J.jpg</a>
<a href="http://i.imgur.com/Q49G1.jpg" target="_blank">http://i.imgur.com/Q49G1.jpg</a>
You may be. I know very few people who don't play with alien vision on all the time.
A vision mode that smooths out wall surfaces, pathing, highlights anything involved with the enemy in the tiniest portion in a very identifiable way and gains you FPS.
What's not to use?
How about this...
Alien vision only works in rooms where the power is off. This would require that all nodes be installed at the beginning of the game, which I'm fine with. That allows aliens to kill them at the very start if they want to spend the time doing it. So yeah, if they want to take the time to take out power nodes, then give them that advantage. If not, then they don't get that advantage. Fair? (Hey, I'll even toss up a suggestion on moderator with this in mind and see where it goes.)
Darkness by default is great from an environmental standpoint, but awful from a balance standpoint. If darkness is the default, then aliens need a 'weakness' when the power is NOT off.
Hey, I'm still trying to get people to endorse the idea of laser sights on marines. If you look at <a href="http://www.google.com/moderator/#9/e=2055e8&g=laser+sight" target="_blank">this suggestion</a>, you'll see UWE concept art link. Can you imagine laser sights in a darkened room?! I think that would look amazing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I understand your point; however, I don't see this as darkness by default. I see this as darkness in alien controlled areas. So if all nodes were on and built at start and shut down by infestation then only areas controlled by aliens are darkened or emergency lit. Once the infestation is cleared (is fire from flame throwers a light source?) and the node rebuilt, then there is light.
As far as always using alien vision; I sure don't. I did at first but it gives no clue as to actual lighting in the room. I was running through dark room admiring the alien vision and laughing at the poor marines that couldn't see me and ran into a fully lit room and got smoked because I had no idea the room was lit, or that I had transitioned from a dark room to a lit room because of alien vision.
I do like the idea of alien's eyes glowing slightly in full darkness; maybe only while running? A stationary or walking alien, in the dark, should not be so easily spotted, however.
I do like the laser sight too. Maybe it could provide a small radius of "emergency lighting" as well?
A vision mode that smooths out wall surfaces, pathing, highlights anything involved with the enemy in the tiniest portion in a very identifiable way and gains you FPS.
What's not to use?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think seeing Like a Marine helps fight them more as then you know what they can see and where they can see it so you can hide there using regular vision then switching to alien from cover to spot targets easier. Basically seeing only smooth surfaces stops me hiding do well.
It's a decision between letting either the aliens or the marines have more control over the power.
If aliens didn't want pitch black rooms for whatever reason, they could just decide to not cyst that power node (though that might leave a vulnerable spot on the ground where the marines can sneak in a phase gate).
By giving control to the marines, they could earn their slight visual help for the room they plan to progress into by powering the adjacent room, but it could also have the unintentional side effect of notifying aliens of their presence in an adjacent room (though usually the aliens will know anyway).
How about a compromise:
<ul><li>Fully lit if power node in room is built by marines.</li><li>Constant red emergency light if the adjacent room is powered.</li><li>Red emergency light that slowly interpolates/pulses to pitch black and back again if aliens have the node infested and the adjacent room is powered.</li><li>Pitch black with luminescent alien structures if the power node is down and the adjacent room is not powered at all.</li></ul>
This is probably a good idea. I use alien vision but I'd rather learn to play without it. Like you said, people don't know if they are hiding well because they can't see their surroundings properly, with lerk I turn of alien vision when I'm finding somewhere to roost. With gorge I turn it off so I can see where my projectiles are going. I also noticed I learned maps waaaay slower when I played alien all the time with alien vision. I started playing marines more just to learn the maps better, each room stopped blending together. Plus the fact that alien vision makes everywhere look lame. I would really prefer a less intense alien vision, more like when you parasite a marine, just have a subtle orange glow. I noticed streamers often don't play with alien vision on, I thought it could be because it looks like crap.
Real darkness in this game sounds cool, right now as a marine I am very very scared of dark rooms, for the whole 5 seconds they stay completely dark. I think it would be really awesome for it to at least be like that in hive rooms. I do not feel even slightly worried about walking into the alien's domain. Plus I like to think of exos moving in on a completely dark hive room. The flood lights would be bad ass.
This is actually a really good idea that doesn't affect actual game mechanics.
Except this game has an RTS element and controlling an area is part of the RTS gameplay.
It was however also something that made me die <b>very</b> easily in those rooms.
I kind of think that it should be more of a mappers choice per light. Some rooms looks simply amazing in the emergency lighting (like hive rooms), while some would make more sense to be pitch-black apart from sunlight.
Such as crevice, where I have no idea where such strong red emergency lights appear from :S
One solution would be to have all power nodes built by default but I think this would be too much of an advantage for Marines. As they would no longer need to build them when expanding or Aliens would need to spend a lot of time destroying them all.
Something I think which might work is to have all power node sockets start with a low power lighting node which would be visibly different to the normal nodes. These low power nodes would not be able to power Marine buildings so Marines would still need to build a normal power node. They also will not count as a Marine building so would not alert the Commander when they are under attack. Once Marines build a normal power node the node behaves as they do now and once a low power node is destroyed it cannot be repaired, a normal power node has to be built in it's place.
These low power nodes would only have about 1000 health so they could be destroyed a lot quicker by Aliens to send the room into darkness/emergency lighting. It gives Aliens a way to darken the rooms they control while not giving Marines a control advantage at the start of the game.
Also, if we are going to even remotely touch this subject; Marines need a superior flashlight, seriously. The current one is almost equivalent to the original Doom 3 flashlight, IE. absolutely worthless. If it's not busy making it harder for your to see in semi-dark rooms, it is not illuminating anything in completely dark ones.
im no programmer, but isnt there some sort of minimum-light-value so a pitch dark room would apear as only dimmly lit?