1)FPS seems to drop considerably using alien vision. Strange since it is taking away detail, however I assume it's simply layering another level on.
2)You have no idea if you're in a darkened or lightened area, and unable to judge how hidden you are.
This coupled with the fact that most marine targets will already be outlined through walls (when spotted or parasited) means I only use vision mode to pick out hidden marines in most cases. If FPS was the same I'd probably use it more.
<!--quoteo(post=2048187:date=Dec 19 2012, 05:33 PM:name=MMZ_Torak)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MMZ_Torak @ Dec 19 2012, 05:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048187"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I understand your point; however, I don't see this as darkness by default.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Not darkness by default but an *advantage* by default.
Let's consider this. Most everyone will agree that alien vision rocks and makes skulking (or any lifeform) a breeze. Any player that plays without it is only limiting themselves. Now let's also consider that alien vision makes darkness meaningless.
Since darkness is meaningless to aliens, darkness only affects marines. Well we know how darkness affects marines, since it is a clear disadvantage. Not only does the flashlight suck (especially if you have video settings turned up and you're in a 'foggy' area), the flashlight can impair the view of your team mates.
So it's clear that darkness is a clear alien advantage. That's OK if aliens go to the trouble of taking out power nodes. The problem is that they want to make it so that all rooms (except marine spawn) are dark to start the game. That means the aliens get a huge early game advantage since marines are stumbling around in the dark and getting chomped.
My point was that if you want to make it so the whole map (except marine spawn) starts off as 'dark' to start the game, then aliens have to give something up to gain that advantage. In this case my compromise is that once marines get power to a room the aliens lose their alien vision
In rooms without power - alien advantage In rooms with power - marine advantage
This might actually make power nodes mean something. However aliens *must* give up something if they are going to get this advantage. Giving up alien vision in rooms with lights on seems like a fair compromise. It would mean that you would have territorial advantage for BOTH sides - based on who had the 'power'.
<!--quoteo(post=2048329:date=Dec 20 2012, 01:27 AM:name=aaSpider)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aaSpider @ Dec 20 2012, 01:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048329"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think an issue still remains where Aliens are unable to take out the power in a room unless the Marines have first built it. One solution would be to have all power nodes built by default but I think this would be too much of an advantage for Marines. As they would no longer need to build them when expanding or Aliens would need to spend a lot of time destroying them all.
Something I think which might work is to have all power node sockets start with a low power lighting node which would be visibly different to the normal nodes. These low power nodes would not be able to power Marine buildings so Marines would still need to build a normal power node. They also will not count as a Marine building so would not alert the Commander when they are under attack. Once Marines build a normal power node the node behaves as they do now and once a low power node is destroyed it cannot be repaired, a normal power node has to be built in it's place.
These low power nodes would only have about 1000 health so they could be destroyed a lot quicker by Aliens to send the room into darkness/emergency lighting. It gives Aliens a way to darken the rooms they control while not giving Marines a control advantage at the start of the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> you could just go with the regular socket can become infested and then the lights go out, Marines simply need to kill the infestation on the socket (Health at most that of a single cyst and can then power node to put the lights back on. Basically this allows light to be on but allows aliens to turn them off before a node is built at all
<!--quoteo(post=2048401:date=Dec 20 2012, 12:42 AM:name=Savant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Savant @ Dec 20 2012, 12:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048401"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My point was that if you want to make it so the whole map (except marine spawn) starts off as 'dark' to start the game, then aliens have to give something up to gain that advantage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the whole map starting dark is over the top. I suggest that the whole map actually start out lit as it does currently. Once the infestation reaches a power node in a room with no marine buildings, that the power go out. I would not want to see cysts and infestation become the alien's ARC's however. That too would be over the top.
Should the marines want to reclaim the room, they would have to clear the infestation around the node and rebuild it.
I'm okay with no alien vision in a room that is lit.
<!--quoteo(post=2048340:date=Dec 19 2012, 08:48 PM:name=Kazter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kazter @ Dec 19 2012, 08:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048340"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, if we are going to even remotely touch this subject; Marines need a superior flashlight, seriously. The current one is almost equivalent to the original Doom 3 flashlight, IE. absolutely worthless. If it's not busy making it harder for your to see in semi-dark rooms, it is not illuminating anything in completely dark ones.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Full agreement here. The current flashlight (torch for those of you across the pond) is more of a hindrance than anything else.
<!--quoteo(post=2048147:date=Dec 20 2012, 06:24 AM:name=xen32)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xen32 @ Dec 20 2012, 06:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048147"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Powernode down, room connected to powered room = emergency lights. Powernode down, no adjacent powered room = total darkness.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> +1 Though perhaps a dimmed (20% reduction) flickering emergency lighting that moves as a wave from room to room outside the powered areas.
Oh and please make it so the sockets start built and are able to be destroyed. If aliens will waste time taking them out then marines are not being pestered and can control other parts of the map. Given their is no cost to repairing these nodes (unlike the cyst chain) and all areas will start powered (until an alien decides their diets lacking in electricity/plasma (whatever the heck the TSA power supply is). This means aliens can kill power in their hive and no longer have a marine friendly starting hive.
<!--quoteo(post=2048231:date=Dec 19 2012, 06:43 PM:name=SixtyWattMan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SixtyWattMan @ Dec 19 2012, 06:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048231"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is actually a really good idea that doesn't affect actual game mechanics.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It does though - absolute blackness in enemy territory is a crippling weakness for marines, effectively forcing them to always repair the power nodes as they go. It's also the nail in the coffin of aliens ever turning off alien vision, unless a passive night vision effect is added.
Yeah this idea is great and we definitely should see more fights in the dark on maps. It's just a matter of doing it while also improving marine balance so that they're not even worse off than they are now.
Basically balance should try to revolve around the desired game atmosphere.
<!--quoteo(post=2048540:date=Dec 20 2012, 09:20 AM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Dec 20 2012, 09:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048540"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It does though - absolute blackness in enemy territory is a crippling weakness for marines, effectively forcing them to always repair the power nodes as they go. It's also the nail in the coffin of aliens ever turning off alien vision, unless a passive night vision effect is added.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree that absolute blackness is a problem. I think this whole thing should just leverage the existing game mechanic for when the nodes are taken out with respect to lighting; perhaps with the addition of the Emergency Lighting if an adjacent room has power, and total darkness if no adjacent room has power. Add in no alien vision in a lighted (built power node) room and I think we have a good starting point.
Comments
+1
1)FPS seems to drop considerably using alien vision. Strange since it is taking away detail, however I assume it's simply layering another level on.
2)You have no idea if you're in a darkened or lightened area, and unable to judge how hidden you are.
This coupled with the fact that most marine targets will already be outlined through walls (when spotted or parasited) means I only use vision mode to pick out hidden marines in most cases. If FPS was the same I'd probably use it more.
Let's consider this. Most everyone will agree that alien vision rocks and makes skulking (or any lifeform) a breeze. Any player that plays without it is only limiting themselves. Now let's also consider that alien vision makes darkness meaningless.
Since darkness is meaningless to aliens, darkness only affects marines. Well we know how darkness affects marines, since it is a clear disadvantage. Not only does the flashlight suck (especially if you have video settings turned up and you're in a 'foggy' area), the flashlight can impair the view of your team mates.
So it's clear that darkness is a clear alien advantage. That's OK if aliens go to the trouble of taking out power nodes. The problem is that they want to make it so that all rooms (except marine spawn) are dark to start the game. That means the aliens get a huge early game advantage since marines are stumbling around in the dark and getting chomped.
My point was that if you want to make it so the whole map (except marine spawn) starts off as 'dark' to start the game, then aliens have to give something up to gain that advantage. In this case my compromise is that once marines get power to a room the aliens lose their alien vision
In rooms without power - alien advantage
In rooms with power - marine advantage
This might actually make power nodes mean something. However aliens *must* give up something if they are going to get this advantage. Giving up alien vision in rooms with lights on seems like a fair compromise. It would mean that you would have territorial advantage for BOTH sides - based on who had the 'power'.
One solution would be to have all power nodes built by default but I think this would be too much of an advantage for Marines. As they would no longer need to build them when expanding or Aliens would need to spend a lot of time destroying them all.
Something I think which might work is to have all power node sockets start with a low power lighting node which would be visibly different to the normal nodes. These low power nodes would not be able to power Marine buildings so Marines would still need to build a normal power node. They also will not count as a Marine building so would not alert the Commander when they are under attack. Once Marines build a normal power node the node behaves as they do now and once a low power node is destroyed it cannot be repaired, a normal power node has to be built in it's place.
These low power nodes would only have about 1000 health so they could be destroyed a lot quicker by Aliens to send the room into darkness/emergency lighting. It gives Aliens a way to darken the rooms they control while not giving Marines a control advantage at the start of the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you could just go with the regular socket can become infested and then the lights go out, Marines simply need to kill the infestation on the socket (Health at most that of a single cyst and can then power node to put the lights back on.
Basically this allows light to be on but allows aliens to turn them off before a node is built at all
I think the whole map starting dark is over the top. I suggest that the whole map actually start out lit as it does currently. Once the infestation reaches a power node in a room with no marine buildings, that the power go out. I would not want to see cysts and infestation become the alien's ARC's however. That too would be over the top.
Should the marines want to reclaim the room, they would have to clear the infestation around the node and rebuild it.
I'm okay with no alien vision in a room that is lit.
Full agreement here. The current flashlight (torch for those of you across the pond) is more of a hindrance than anything else.
I like this as well.
+1
Though perhaps a dimmed (20% reduction) flickering emergency lighting that moves as a wave from room to room outside the powered areas.
Oh and please make it so the sockets start built and are able to be destroyed.
If aliens will waste time taking them out then marines are not being pestered and can control other parts of the map.
Given their is no cost to repairing these nodes (unlike the cyst chain) and all areas will start powered (until an alien decides their diets lacking in electricity/plasma (whatever the heck the TSA power supply is).
This means aliens can kill power in their hive and no longer have a marine friendly starting hive.
It does though - absolute blackness in enemy territory is a crippling weakness for marines, effectively forcing them to always repair the power nodes as they go. It's also the nail in the coffin of aliens ever turning off alien vision, unless a passive night vision effect is added.
Basically balance should try to revolve around the desired game atmosphere.
I agree that absolute blackness is a problem. I think this whole thing should just leverage the existing game mechanic for when the nodes are taken out with respect to lighting; perhaps with the addition of the Emergency Lighting if an adjacent room has power, and total darkness if no adjacent room has power. Add in no alien vision in a lighted (built power node) room and I think we have a good starting point.