is hit reg really that bad?

Sharp-Shooter · December 2012

is hit reg really that bad? or is it the player? because so far i see very little problems if any for hit reg, if its as bad as most of you say it is please post a video to show the devs how bad it is and to fix it, im talking about LMG hit reg not shotty as the shotty has random spread
so far i think its bad player in regards to aim, high ping, bad server

but please prove me wrong

Emoo · December 2012

From all the other posts on this (did you really need to start another?) it seems that there are some hit-reg issues but they're hard to reproduce and nowhere near as common as suspected. A few people have commented that it might be the skulk movement changes made a while back that makes them much faster and jumpy, now that marines are starting to adjust to these new movement patterns the problem seems to be getting a bit better. One factor that's still screwing up aim and isn't contested by anyone is performance, a lot of people are still struggling to get a good frame rate and it completely screws up your ability to track aliens (and doesn't affect aliens tracking marines so bad due to glancing hits).

douchebagatron · December 2012

It comes down to a few things:

if you shoot a skulk and see blood, that should mean that you hit the skulk. another identifier is the damage numbers get drawn. if you see the damage numbers then you definitely hit it. the problem is that you might not see damage numbers. and in that situation, it likely means you didn't hit it, even though blood was drawn. sometimes the numbers just aren't drawn even though you did hit though.

this happens if you look for it, and it's the best way to identify hitreg being off.

all games have some form of this due to lag compensation, but sometimes it seems worse than normal, especially with fast moving targets.

Samus1111111 · December 2012

The 2 main problems that I have (as an alien) with hit reg is:

1) getting shot around a corner. I believe this has to do with the lag compensation, but not sure. I have been shot while retreating around a corner for up to ~.5 seconds after I am completely around the corner and out of LOS.
2) gorge spit is lol worthy. Watch this --> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAUB0uujeiU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAUB0uujeiU</a> I know it is 1 month old, but the problem is still there as far as I can tell.

RaZDaZ · December 2012

Kinda like the placebo effect, once hitreg is mentioned as a problem...it can take a big effect and people jump onto it believing that fixing it is the solution to our problems.

I will state that there is a problem with hitreg but a lot is down to aim. From what I know, it's better to try and aim ahead of your target only slightly but easier said than done as a marine with funky skulk movement. Getting shot around corners is in pretty much every shooter.

pendelum5 · December 2012

My biggest issue is that FPS drops will also introduce an input delay, which really sucks when trying to track skulks once shtf.

Sehzade · December 2012

heyy!! it is one of those again!
welcome back, old friend.
long time no see!
take a seat and have a hot cup of black tea.

Shrimm · December 2012

There are indeed hit reg issues. They only seem to occur sometimes though. it leads me to believe client and server become desynchronized sometimes. Simply because most times hit reg is great.

Savant · December 2012

I do believe there is a hit registration problem for a number of reasons... First of all, the ones complaining are the marines with ranged weapons. The aliens with melee weapons are not affected it would seem. Yet they *could* be affected, since I know in NS1 it was the other way around. Hit registration for bites was horrid at times. People had videos of skulks biting a marine's ass and he still lived. It makes sense that hit registration would be more likely to affect ranged weapons since there is a greater interval between the time the shot is fired and when it hits the target.

Anyway, I've encountered hit registration issues, but sporadically. Usually it involves shooting at a skulk and I can hear the shots hit and I can see the blood, but I get no damage (or not enough) and end up dying. I've also had it on the other side when I thought for sure I was dead, and after killing a couple marines I was scratching my head asking myself "how the hell did I pull that off?"

It's possible this may be related to server/processor load. Rarely do I ever recall it happening in the early game. But maybe that's just a fluke. Right now I'm trying to get some good vidcaps that are really obvious and impossible for anyone to question.

Frosty the Pyro · December 2012

I would estimate a bit less than 5 % no-reg rate, based on unloading a full lmg into a structure/onos (large easy targets so you know there is no missing) and noticing the total reported damage being a bit less than 500 (550/600/650 depending on upgrades), its rare that more than 2 bullets of a clip end up being non-regs

LilbitHeartless · December 2012

There has been times I suspect something is off when I'm shooting an alien but quite frankly in every FPS I've had those times. Figuring that sort of thing takes an marine player that is a very good shot and dedicated enough to record and go back through his footage. Think I've had one time where I was 98% sure something wasn't right, and it was shotgunning a skulk in the face as he jumped towards me, had someone sitting next to me who agreed.

I've had the gorge problem for sure, if they need recordings of that i probably could help.

Being hit around corners? That's just the norm in NS2, it happens in other games but is brutal in this game. People have said it is because it is a fast paced game. In other FPS games I've done the whole peak around the corner to shoot for a split second then pull back thing.. you can't really do that in NS2.

What I hate the worst is when jumping around a marine or circling him and having him looking the other way and still be hitting me. Not easy to dodge around a marine when the way he is looking on the screen is not consistent with what registers with the server. Thought it was odd the other day, I was playing with a friend and he saw this happen to me, he told me he was surprised the guy got me because he wasn't looking at me, which is what it also looked like to me. I had figured it only synched up wrong for me, I figured for onlookers they would see the marine aiming directly at me.
--- Not sure if this could be linked with hit reg problems, if for me the marine is looking left yet hitting me, I assume the hitbox would be wonky. If this happens with a marine (the skulk is looking a different direction than he really is) then his hitbox would be inconsistent with what he sees.

glimmerman · December 2012

sometimes its impossible to go into a room with lots of combat because of fps lag. You literally cannot fly as a lerk if you fps is really low as it doesn't take any input - thus suddenly mid-flight you just fall to ground.

Khyron · December 2012

Hit reg isn't bad, but something has changed to make it noticeable since launch, though I couldn't be more time/build-specific than that. I also haven't recorded and watched my playbacks to confirm my suspicions, but it has happened enough times since launch that I'm pretty sure it's not just my imagination. About once per game or two I have an encounter which I'm confident should have registered better, occasionally it's a complete miss for something I would have expected full bite or full shotgun hit etc. To add a bit of perspective I'm talking about a well running server, good pings all round and no unusual/demanding circumstances which might add frame lag or something. I'm talking about one-on-one encounters in the early game in corridors etc. As I said, circumstances where I feel confident a hit should have landed but didn't. I've also occasionally seen my shots register when I expected to miss, though that's rarer. If I didn't have 700 hours prior to release and another hundred hours since, I don't think I'd have the perspective or confidence to say something has changed/worsened.

But there isn't much point talking about it, it needs to be recorded and shown to UWE as per their <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=125559" target="_blank">instructions</a>.

DumbMarine · December 2012

Sometimes I'll get like 10 shots into a skulk that's not moving and it will do no damage. I get the same thing with the gorge spit, though I'm not sure if the gorge spit is a separate issue or not. Sometimes, I'll get hits on a skulk even though I'm pretty sure I should be missing (hard to notice but I've been paying attention for it, it's easier to see with the pistol). Sometimes the lerk spines feel like it's impossible to hit marines with. Sometimes I'll bite a marine's torso and do 50 damage instead of 75, but that's probably because my aim could be improved more than hit reg.

I've noticed that some servers are more prone to these inconsistencies than others, or my ability to aim changes when I switch servers. One of those.

ScardyBob · December 2012

There are certainly issues with performance, animations, input lag, etc which quite a few people clump under the title of 'hitreg'. Its become a bit of a catchall for all that seems off with the game related to hitting targets.

fiveseven · December 2012

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (glimmerman @ Dec 16 2012, 02:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2046540"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>sometimes its impossible to go into a room with lots of combat because of fps lag. You literally cannot fly as a lerk if you fps is really low as it doesn't take any input - thus suddenly mid-flight you just fall to ground.</div>

This happens with fade too, blink into a room with 4 guys and a few structures and trying to make a tight turn + blink out you end up moving very quickly into a wall... mouse feels like its moving through goo.

Swiftspear · December 2012

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sharp-Shooter @ Dec 15 2012, 07:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2046415"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>is hit reg really that bad? or is it the player? because so far i see very little problems if any for hit reg, if its as bad as most of you say it is please post a video to show the devs how bad it is and to fix it, im talking about LMG hit reg not shotty as the shotty has random spread
so far i think its bad player in regards to aim, high ping, bad server

but please prove me wrong</div>
It's signifignatly worse than it was in NS1 with properly configured network settings. It's not really "that bad" in that it's not really all that worse than CoDBlOps for example, but it's bad in that because NS2 things are moving so much faster than in <i>Shoot Man Brown Wars VI</i> we need the hit reg to be better to match.

gnoarch · December 2012

I think it's <<10% real problem and >>90% in peoples minds. Every time they dont kill a skulk they think about whether it was hitreg or bad aim.

After all there are people who kill 2 skulks per mag and get >20:1 scores so hitreg can't be that bad.

Savant · December 2012

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gnoarch @ Dec 16 2012, 06:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2046571"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>I think it's <<10% real problem and >>90% in peoples minds. Every time they dont kill a skulk they think about whether it was hitreg or bad aim.

After all there are people who kill 2 skulks per mag and get >20:1 scores so hitreg can't be that bad.</div>The problem is that I can be at the top of the scoreboard one game, and on the bottom the next, despite the pool of players being the same. Did I somehow 'forget' how to play? No. This is not in people's minds. Like any problem of this nature though, when you have something that doesn't happen consistently it's a real bugger to track down the cause.

Dwavenhobble · December 2012

I've had it a few times. One that had to be a hit reg problem. its was the classic shotgun point blank to a skulks face, so good a shot you saw the pellets hit in a ring round it on the ground. It didn't register at all.

I've had one other where it mis registered with me doing 176 damage to a non carapace skulk and them living due to some of the damage not counting at a guess.

I had a really bad run on one server though that might have been playing with 192 ping on a server where everyone else was at 50-70 so it was more likely my own silly fault there

MMZ_Torak · December 2012

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Swiftspear @ Dec 16 2012, 02:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2046554"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>[...] because NS2 things are moving so much faster than in <i>Shoot Man Brown Wars VI</i> we need the hit reg to be better to match.</div>

Heh, gotta love it.

Syriquez · December 2012

I personally think the biggest hitreg item in the game is the Pistol (other than the glancing Bite not registering properly on laggy Marines).

That thing is <i>always</i> either 100% on or 100% off. There are no in-betweens with that gun's performance. I honestly don't think the server can handle it when it fires at maximum rate (e.g., is spammed) and just "assumes" the hits are confirmed. I've had numerous instances where I can kill a Marine consistently if he uses the LMG or Shotgun but if he pulls out the pistol and fires the magazine in <1 second? Bam, dead. No recompense permitted.
Comparatively, I generally <i>don't</i> spam the Pistol, trying to maximize actually hitting things...and shots that should clearly have hit just don't. Just don't understand it. But if I psycho-spam the Pistol in <1 second? Guaranteed kill even when I personally think it shouldn't have hit.

Dwavenhobble · December 2012

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Syriquez @ Dec 18 2012, 11:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2047766"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>I personally think the biggest hitreg item in the game is the Pistol (other than the glancing Bite not registering properly on laggy Marines).

That thing is <i>always</i> either 100% on or 100% off. There are no in-betweens with that gun's performance. I honestly don't think the server can handle it when it fires at maximum rate (e.g., is spammed) and just "assumes" the hits are confirmed. I've had numerous instances where I can kill a Marine consistently if he uses the LMG or Shotgun but if he pulls out the pistol and fires the magazine in <1 second? Bam, dead. No recompense permitted.
Comparatively, I generally <i>don't</i> spam the Pistol, trying to maximize actually hitting things...and shots that should clearly have hit just don't. Just don't understand it. But if I psycho-spam the Pistol in <1 second? Guaranteed kill even when I personally think it shouldn't have hit.</div>
If you're onto something here it might be a reason to impose a locked fire rate of some kind on it if it does turn out to be the problem

turtsmcgurt · December 2012

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dwavenhobble @ Dec 18 2012, 03:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2047769"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>If you're onto something here it might be a reason to impose a locked fire rate of some kind on it if it does turn out to be the problem</div>

He's not, but the idea isn't bad. Valve implemented it into TF2 and it works just fine.

Syriquez · December 2012

Herpderp, dismiss it out-of-hand with zero evidence for or against it. Quote me some more ns2stats, as that's 100% relevant to...a tiny selection of servers removed by the modded servers filter!

wulf · December 2012

funny when you can tell there are 3 skulks around corner waiting to ambush you based on how laggy the game gets.

also the input lag when you're in a busy room or a combat is just fantastic. when I first played ns2 I thought I accidentally hit the button on my mouse that changes the sens... nope it was the game. it's all the fun of an rts, a first person shooter, and some sort of casino game.

Axehilt · December 2012

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (6john @ Dec 15 2012, 07:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2046423"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>It comes down to a few things:

if you shoot a skulk and see blood, that should mean that you hit the skulk. another identifier is the damage numbers get drawn. if you see the damage numbers then you definitely hit it. the problem is that you might not see damage numbers. and in that situation, it likely means you didn't hit it, even though blood was drawn. sometimes the numbers just aren't drawn even though you did hit though.

this happens if you look for it, and it's the best way to identify hitreg being off.

all games have some form of this due to lag compensation, but sometimes it seems worse than normal, especially with fast moving targets.</div>

Yeah this definitely occurs and is a bug they'll hopefully fix (because like you I assume numbers are damage, and blood without numbers isn't damage.) But this doesn't happen all that often in my experience.

The more common problem seems to be that you need to aim at the front of the model to reliably hit a skulk. I don't know if that's just a mental thing I use to trick myself to aim at the right place, or if the bullets actually have travel time (pretty sure they're hitscan right?) but there have definitely been many occasions where a laterally-moving skulk seems to be under my reticle and hits don't register.

I've compensated for it pretty well (well enough to be accused of hacking a few times) but it definitely feels like a potential game polish item.

lordfoul · December 2012

I have noticed a few problems since i came back i was away from the game for 4 - 5 weeks and since returning i find my self shouting at the monitor because i seem to be missing, now my aim was pretty solid before and although there is a little jerkyness when jumping around as alien i have not noticed any other performance issues but this.

I have a solid fps bewteen 50 - 70 during gameplay and a ping bewteen 30 - 80 at the most, i put it down to new updates to alien movements and just been out of practice but it does not seem to be getting better i tried to compensate by lowering my mouse sensitivity but there is still times when i swear im point blank on a skulk and im simply hitting nothing will just have to wait and see after the next few updates.

Azaral · December 2012

In explore I can sit with skulk as close as possible to me and it takes 15-16 bullets to kill a console spawned skulk.

Savant · December 2012

What slays me about this issue is that in NS1 the problem was reversed. Skulks were getting rolled despite getting many bites in on marines. (Of course back then the 'leet masters' lectured the masses about how they should learn to play)

I had a humorous event happen in a game a couple days ago. In the game before this game, things were working great. As a marine I even managed a triple skulk kill, which isn't something I can usually pull off. So in the next game imagine my surprise when I get rolled by one skulk when I had all the time in the world to kill him. It was so bad that the other player even said in chat that "how did I not die?"

Then I've seen 5 guys shooting at one skulk that's hopping around and it's not dying. All of them unload a full clip and he's still alive. Is someone going to tell me they couldn't each connect with 3 shots out of 50? I was in spec but there is no way they all missed completely.

There is more happening here than meets the eye, and I wish there was some way to at least figure out what is causing it. Right now we're still no further along.

AFireInAsa · December 2012

I don't see it, personally. Maybe once or twice I'm like "I should have killed him", but that's more likely due to my perception of if I hit him or not.

The only way to really figure out this problem I believe is to film it and really take a look at what's happening. I think people would be surprised that they weren't actually connecting rather than it being hit registry issues.

is hit reg really that bad?

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