<!--quoteo(post=2044906:date=Dec 13 2012, 12:21 PM:name=m0rd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (m0rd @ Dec 13 2012, 12:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2044906"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I haven't read through the 8 pages but please tell me i'm not the only one who spotted this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2044902:date=Dec 13 2012, 01:09 PM:name=GORGEous)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GORGEous @ Dec 13 2012, 01:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2044902"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If only exosuits and onos followed that logic train. Too bad the end game is such ###### once those units start hitting the field.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Late game is more strategy than individual skill. Sure, it would be nice if it was both, but that's highly unlikely to ever happen. I'm inclined to say the two are mutually exclusive (depending on your definition of skill, most here choose the COD definition).
Why go fade late game when you could go skulk for free and just bite 1 more time and have better accuracy (who else loves getting the 20 damage glancing swipe on fade?). To that extent, why go fade at all when skulk movement can be almost as good as fade for traveling around the map.
Only reason I play fade is cause I just like shadowstepping around. Fade is so stupidly weak that I really shouldn't, though. Just waiting for them to be buffed so I can be use to playing with ######ty fades.
Also, blink costs way too much ######ing energy. You have to spam it to dodge marine fire in a group of anything more than 1 marine or else you're dead, and sometime for just 1 marine.
tl;dr fades are only good if you have really stupid and bad marines who don't have armor
<!--quoteo(post=2045019:date=Dec 13 2012, 07:16 PM:name=VeNeM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VeNeM @ Dec 13 2012, 07:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2045019"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->fades are broken because devs listened to whiners that couldnt solo fades in early beta when fps and netcode were complete crap.
yes, it makes sense to balance a class when the game barely functions<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
recently I acutally have seen some good fades. One or two of them were really good to the point where they clearly dominated the server. So I'd wait for some more weeks as I think we will see more and more good fades without any balance change.
<!--quoteo(post=2045021:date=Dec 13 2012, 12:27 PM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Dec 13 2012, 12:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2045021"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How has fade changed since the early 190s?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
im talking the 170s, back when fades got nerfed hard. back when the netcode was poor and hitreg wasnt good.
<!--quoteo(post=2045026:date=Dec 13 2012, 10:33 AM:name=gnoarch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gnoarch @ Dec 13 2012, 10:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2045026"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->recently I acutally have seen some good fades. One or two of them were really good to the point where they clearly dominated the server. So I'd wait for some more weeks as I think we will see more and more good fades without any balance change.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> to the point that all the marines were all really really bad*
While I agree that something needs to be done about Fade survivability... but it's true that one puny little Skulk can dance an exo to death. Have done it like three times. One time the exo was simply alone, another time he got a welder who I took out first and then there was a time I took two exos to the dancing class. Only one survived.
Yes, they were TERRIBLE at aiming. But can't see one marine doing the same to an Onos. On the other hand, jetpack pretty much saves you from average Onos as well. 10pres investment which is goddamn ridiculous.
<!--quoteo(post=2045056:date=Dec 13 2012, 02:01 PM:name=Functional)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Functional @ Dec 13 2012, 02:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2045056"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->While I agree that something needs to be done about Fade survivability... but it's true that one puny little Skulk can dance an exo to death. Have done it like three times. One time the exo was simply alone, another time he got a welder who I took out first and then there was a time I took two exos to the dancing class. Only one survived.
Yes, they were TERRIBLE at aiming. But can't see one marine doing the same to an Onos. On the other hand, jetpack pretty much saves you from average Onos as well. 10pres investment which is goddamn ridiculous.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Onos still beats jet pack in most scenarios. It's far from 10 res investment for a free kill.
<!--quoteo(post=2045063:date=Dec 13 2012, 02:09 PM:name=Disconnect)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Disconnect @ Dec 13 2012, 02:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2045063"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't think one on one (or an Onos supported by other lifeforms) plus the Onos hiding behind a corner counts as "most scenarios".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The most dangerous thing to jetpacks is having high amounts of damage done to them quickly. Onos is the best in the game at doing that.
"Most scenarios" are chaotic, it's hard for jetpacks to maintain the fuel needed to stay above the onos head, and they don't actually move as fast as either a charging onos or a celerity onos. One mistake against an onos and you pay for it FAR more than that same mistake against a fade or a skulk.
I'd agree fades are better against jetpacks for cost... but they're also cheaper. I'd say taking cost out of the equation I'd rather have an onos 90% of the time.
<!--quoteo(post=2045074:date=Dec 13 2012, 02:26 PM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Swiftspear @ Dec 13 2012, 02:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2045074"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The most dangerous thing to jetpacks is having high amounts of damage done to them quickly. Onos is the best in the game at doing that.
"Most scenarios" are chaotic, it's hard for jetpacks to maintain the fuel needed to stay above the onos head, and they don't actually move as fast as either a charging onos or a celerity onos. One mistake against an onos and you pay for it FAR more than that same mistake against a fade or a skulk.
I'd agree fades are better against jetpacks for cost... but they're also cheaper. I'd say taking cost out of the equation I'd rather have an onos 90% of the time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> An Onos going after a retreating JP requires a full commitment on his part though. Much more difficult with teammates covering the JP.
Obviously though Onoses are far better than Fades in general just due to the current state of balance.
<!--quoteo(post=2045061:date=Dec 13 2012, 12:05 PM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Swiftspear @ Dec 13 2012, 12:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2045061"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Onos still beats jet pack in most scenarios. It's far from 10 res investment for a free kill.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But it's a 10pres investment for not becoming a free kill.
Point being that if you see an Onos coming straight at you from a small distance, you can jetpack yourself away from that. I however see no point in actually trying to take the Onos down alone... you're running into your own death for no good reason. Well, unless you're trying to defend your valuable assets from that Onos.
Fades aren't broken. It really depends who you are playing with. I played with a marine team that went shotgun rush. We nailed 3 fades in the first 2 mins like it was nothing. Also once exos are brought out, fades just drop like flies.
The reason why many people ###### about fades is because they can't aim worth ######. I seen an dual exo get killed by a single fade and almost wanted to cry. People with less experience or skill tend to stack marines and everytime i look at the player list, it is aways the same players on the same team. I think the easiest solution would to be having an anti stack mod. If you played on the same team twice in a row, you have to join the opposing team. That way it would be more balanced in skill.
When you have two equally skilled teams, fades are not that effective. Lerks and Onos are much more dangerous (i think lerk spike is the most overpowered skill in the game).
jetpacks need to be 15 res, at 10 res they are really cheap and effective and aliens really feel their backs agaisnt the wall when jetpacks start appearing becuase they know 10 res is nothing.
<!--quoteo(post=2046278:date=Dec 15 2012, 01:45 PM:name=deathshroud)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (deathshroud @ Dec 15 2012, 01:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2046278"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->jetpacks need to be 15 res, at 10 res they are really cheap and effective and aliens really feel their backs agaisnt the wall when jetpacks start appearing becuase they know 10 res is nothing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> If they increase the cost of jetpacks then they have to buff them which I don't have a problem with. Jetpacks are pretty weak and aren't really that problematic.
<!--quoteo(post=2046284:date=Dec 15 2012, 01:01 PM:name=SixtyWattMan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SixtyWattMan @ Dec 15 2012, 01:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2046284"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If they increase the cost of jetpacks then they have to buff them which I don't have a problem with. Jetpacks are pretty weak and aren't really that problematic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually giving us the JP upgrades they've had on the menu for ages would help. JPs cost 20 res, start like they are now, and upgrade with Tres for increased fuel capacity.
Christ, people could hang in the air for ages with increased fuel; about a third of your current tank is spent just getting the height.
Fades may have some 'quirks', but they are far from broken. As a marine I die way more often from a fade than I kill a fade - as it should be. There are a few minor issues...<ul><li>They are hard to learn, and harder to master. Movement is almost like flying, but at so fast a speed control is difficult. New players are easily flummoxed by the fade's playstyle.</li><li>Too many people seem to think fades should be invincible. Think of a fade like you would a 50 res EXO. Basically a second tier class that does some things well, but has a lot of limitations.</li><li>The fade is a great tactical response class that can quickly respond to attacks, and keep marines busy until teammates arrive.</li><li>Fades should be working in TANDEM with other aliens. While skulks can and should do solo ambushes, the fade works best in tandem with other aliens. Like a lerk gassing a room and the fade coming in and making mincemeat of marines as they cough to death. Or when an Onos has charged in and they are all firing at the Onos. Heck, even if a couple skulks charge in, you can use that distraction as a means to rack up the kills. A fade is not a one man killing machine like the Onos. You're gonna want to work in groups.</li></ul>So long as people recognize the fade's limitations, it can be an exceptionally deadly class.
biggest problem with fade is their insanaly high res cost, nothing else.
onos - 75res
fade - 50res
it's not worth to spend that 50res when all you need is 25 res to get far... FAR more superior lifeform that actually has bigger role in the game than being just "better skulk", because that's what fade atm is, it's actually a lot worse harassing resourcenodes, but in combat it's nothing more than slightly better skulk in combat.
just think about it, swipe vs bite, 87 vs 75 dmg, not much improvement. leap vs blink not much improvement, fade better health armor vs skulk small size, not much improvement in survivability either conclusion : fade is simply very... VERY expensive skulk, and it's a LOT more wiser to safe res for onos because you can't even drop TRES onos anymore.
I don't see fades that underpowered atm, when people can barely kill skulks with 1 lmg clip. Most annoying thing compared to NS1 is lack of good feedback when taking damage. It might be lag or the low fps i get, but there is big gap between when i get hit and my health drops. Againts shotgunners it would be very good to reintroduce the face scream from ns1, where fade would make a scream when you got full shot from shotgun.
Comments
check out 3 posts before yours =)
Late game is more strategy than individual skill. Sure, it would be nice if it was both, but that's highly unlikely to ever happen. I'm inclined to say the two are mutually exclusive (depending on your definition of skill, most here choose the COD definition).
Only reason I play fade is cause I just like shadowstepping around. Fade is so stupidly weak that I really shouldn't, though. Just waiting for them to be buffed so I can be use to playing with ######ty fades.
Also, blink costs way too much ######ing energy. You have to spam it to dodge marine fire in a group of anything more than 1 marine or else you're dead, and sometime for just 1 marine.
tl;dr fades are only good if you have really stupid and bad marines who don't have armor
yes, it makes sense to balance a class when the game barely functions
yes, it makes sense to balance a class when the game barely functions<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How has fade changed since the early 190s?
So I'd wait for some more weeks as I think we will see more and more good fades without any balance change.
im talking the 170s, back when fades got nerfed hard. back when the netcode was poor and hitreg wasnt good.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9tH8xQHTV8" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9tH8xQHTV8</a>
So I'd wait for some more weeks as I think we will see more and more good fades without any balance change.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
to the point that all the marines were all really really bad*
Yes, they were TERRIBLE at aiming. But can't see one marine doing the same to an Onos. On the other hand, jetpack pretty much saves you from average Onos as well. 10pres investment which is goddamn ridiculous.
Yes, they were TERRIBLE at aiming. But can't see one marine doing the same to an Onos. On the other hand, jetpack pretty much saves you from average Onos as well. 10pres investment which is goddamn ridiculous.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Onos still beats jet pack in most scenarios. It's far from 10 res investment for a free kill.
The most dangerous thing to jetpacks is having high amounts of damage done to them quickly. Onos is the best in the game at doing that.
"Most scenarios" are chaotic, it's hard for jetpacks to maintain the fuel needed to stay above the onos head, and they don't actually move as fast as either a charging onos or a celerity onos. One mistake against an onos and you pay for it FAR more than that same mistake against a fade or a skulk.
I'd agree fades are better against jetpacks for cost... but they're also cheaper. I'd say taking cost out of the equation I'd rather have an onos 90% of the time.
"Most scenarios" are chaotic, it's hard for jetpacks to maintain the fuel needed to stay above the onos head, and they don't actually move as fast as either a charging onos or a celerity onos. One mistake against an onos and you pay for it FAR more than that same mistake against a fade or a skulk.
I'd agree fades are better against jetpacks for cost... but they're also cheaper. I'd say taking cost out of the equation I'd rather have an onos 90% of the time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
An Onos going after a retreating JP requires a full commitment on his part though. Much more difficult with teammates covering the JP.
Obviously though Onoses are far better than Fades in general just due to the current state of balance.
But it's a 10pres investment for not becoming a free kill.
Point being that if you see an Onos coming straight at you from a small distance, you can jetpack yourself away from that. I however see no point in actually trying to take the Onos down alone... you're running into your own death for no good reason. Well, unless you're trying to defend your valuable assets from that Onos.
The reason why many people ###### about fades is because they can't aim worth ######. I seen an dual exo get killed by a single fade and almost wanted to cry. People with less experience or skill tend to stack marines and everytime i look at the player list, it is aways the same players on the same team. I think the easiest solution would to be having an anti stack mod. If you played on the same team twice in a row, you have to join the opposing team. That way it would be more balanced in skill.
When you have two equally skilled teams, fades are not that effective. Lerks and Onos are much more dangerous (i think lerk spike is the most overpowered skill in the game).
If they increase the cost of jetpacks then they have to buff them which I don't have a problem with. Jetpacks are pretty weak and aren't really that problematic.
Actually giving us the JP upgrades they've had on the menu for ages would help. JPs cost 20 res, start like they are now, and upgrade with Tres for increased fuel capacity.
Christ, people could hang in the air for ages with increased fuel; about a third of your current tank is spent just getting the height.
onos - 75res
fade - 50res
it's not worth to spend that 50res when all you need is 25 res to get far... FAR more superior lifeform that actually has bigger role in the game than being just "better skulk", because that's what fade atm is, it's actually a lot worse harassing resourcenodes, but in combat it's nothing more than slightly better skulk in combat.
just think about it, swipe vs bite, 87 vs 75 dmg, not much improvement. leap vs blink not much improvement, fade better health armor vs skulk small size, not much improvement in survivability either conclusion : fade is simply very... VERY expensive skulk, and it's a LOT more wiser to safe res for onos because you can't even drop TRES onos anymore.