If the Aliens' first hive is a Shade, you will know in the first few seconds where it is thanks to Marine movement, and know what kind of hive it is as soon as one person gets attacked by a cloaked Alien. As soon as you know where and what the hive is, you can mount an offensive to take out the upgrade veils, backed up by Commander scans. Searching/scanning one room for a veil can't be that difficult?
If the Aliens don't start cloaking, you know they went Shift or Crag as their first hive and this whole conversation is moot until later game when/if they choose an additional hive as Shade. Then, still, you know which hive is the Shade hive (as long as you have a short term memory of at least a few minutes and can remember which hive is which).
With regards to defending against cloaked Alien attacks - just move about in groups, with some space between you, and cover each other. It's easier to hit a skulk from a distance than up close, and you should be able to kill a skulk attacking someone else before it kills them. Again, back this up with Commander scans when you hit an Alien-held room, and you're laughing.
<!--quoteo(post=2044310:date=Dec 12 2012, 07:59 AM:name=Mestaritonttu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mestaritonttu @ Dec 12 2012, 07:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2044310"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Great scenario man -NOT, just as ambiguous as before. The second Skulks are scanned they become highly mobile and ANYTHING but stationary. You're not going to mop any floors. Walls. Anything. Unless you've a 100% kill ratio against Skulks doing their best to simply avoid bullets and escape, from FULL HEALTH.
Gah.
Oh well, I might as well stop complaining. Winning all games with camo and when someone thinks it's OP I can just bitterly laugh and tell 'em forums disagree. And the forums get one more OPsayer more. A win-win situation.
Cheers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't doubt you for a second that this is your experience. My personal experience is almost the opposite: I find as aliens we run the game a LOT closer if we have a shade hive first (though now I will always be asking for silence rather than camo in any case - more mobility for me is far more important than the option to camp effectively... I find it too passive). If we have shift first, the ability for skulks to respond quickly to threats is, for me, the bigger advantage. Couple that with celerity lerk and you're into the mid game (and adrenaline gorge for those bile bombs...). A shade hive lerk is, in my limited and humble opinion, a far more sorry affair than a shift hive lerk, and as the mid game progresses, I really, really want to have carapace (occasionally regen, depending on what's really needed from the lerk) - carapace and celerity in the mid game are (again, in my biased and ignorant opinion) better than any argued benefits of a shade hive first.
Take the above only as my opinion - as that's all it is. My experience is that shade hives make it much harder for alien teams. I personally love it as marine when aliens go shade hive. They are slower to respond to threats, and the scan counter is particularly effective.
One last comment about celerity not working in combat: that's true, BUT it can get you into biting distance MUCH faster, especially coupled with decent walljumping, so for me it really does give you a combat advantage.
But to the OP: scan and communicate with your comm/teammates. Middle click to spot a threat is surprisingly accurate as well - you can indicate very clearly to your marines where the veil is (or of course just give them a waypoint!).
<!--quoteo(post=2044312:date=Dec 12 2012, 02:10 PM:name=Sherlock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sherlock @ Dec 12 2012, 02:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2044312"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's easier to hit a skulk from a distance than up close, and you should be able to kill a skulk attacking someone else before it kills them. Again, back this up with Commander scans when you hit an Alien-held room, and you're laughing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
LoL. You never get a cloaked skulk down, before he has killed at least 1 marine. Even in a big group. Camo is the best advantage you can get. What do you think would happen if the same skulk moves into that group with cara or cele instead of camo? Do you think he would kill 1 marine in this constellation? Killing one marine out of a big group is the best one skulk can do anyway. And with camo and a little brain, it is guaranteed. Oh, and if the com uses scan you gain even more! One dead marine lessens the aggression. But 3 lost t-res for a dead skulk is a gift!
Even if you know, that the aliens got early-camo. What will you do? Rush the hive is your solution? Wow. So how is this not the solution to cara or cele hives? If it doesn't matter, than "rush the hive" is always the best you can do and has nothing to do in a discussion about camo being op or not.
<!--quoteo(post=2044323:date=Dec 12 2012, 02:30 PM:name=Roobubba)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Roobubba @ Dec 12 2012, 02:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2044323"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->more mobility for me is far more important than the option to camp effectively... I find it too passive).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's just because you use it wrong. The advantage of camo is, that you can MOVE while invisible. You don't need camo to camp. Just camp at a ceiling. You don't need camo for this. Also you NEVER use camo all the time. You activate it only when directly engaging marines. You are not much slower with camo as with cara, if you use it right. Because you don't activate it when traveling the map. Run! Travel with walljumps! When you engage a marine you just need to hide for 3 seconds! Than you are invisible and start to engage the marine.
You are right, that camo gets useless in mid-game and for higher life forms. But if you got early camo for your skulks, they have no problem to secure a second or even a third hive. And than you got your other upgrades. You just need to play aggressive with camo and not camp.
<!--quoteo(post=2044328:date=Dec 12 2012, 08:35 AM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Dec 12 2012, 08:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2044328"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's just because you use it wrong. The advantage of camo is, that you can MOVE while invisible. You don't need camo to camp. Just camp at a ceiling. You don't need camo for this. Also you NEVER use camo all the time. You activate it only when directly engaging marines. You are not much slower with camo as with cara, if you use it right. Because you don't activate it when traveling the map. Run! Travel with walljumps! When you engage a marine you just need to hide for 3 seconds! Than you are invisible and start to engage the marine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Which is why I STILL prefer celerity first, regardless of the horrendous shift nerf recently - because you are so much faster to respond to threats than camo or carapace. For the record, I don't use camo everywhere, and I'm always on the lookout for threats - however in my experience many pub aliens DON'T do this and therein lies much of the problem. As always, teamwork > choice of upgrade, so it's a moot point. Again, it's just my experience and opinion, but that's what it is. I don't doubt that your experience is different, but there's no point in telling me that mine is wrong or that I'm not doing it right!
<!--quoteo(post=2044312:date=Dec 12 2012, 04:10 AM:name=Sherlock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sherlock @ Dec 12 2012, 04:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2044312"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->With regards to defending against cloaked Alien attacks - just move about in groups, with some space between you, and cover each other. It's easier to hit a skulk from a distance than up close, and you should be able to kill a skulk attacking someone else before it kills them. Again, back this up with Commander scans when you hit an Alien-held room, and you're laughing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2044236:date=Dec 12 2012, 06:41 AM:name=Ghosthree3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ghosthree3 @ Dec 12 2012, 06:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2044236"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That command isn't exactly unique to NS2, but I get your point.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have an Unreal Engine background, so I tried the "suicide" command. Which didn't work for obvious reasons. "kill" would really not seem like my first choice for intending to kill myself.
<!--quoteo(post=2044334:date=Dec 12 2012, 02:44 PM:name=Roobubba)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Roobubba @ Dec 12 2012, 02:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2044334"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't doubt that your experience is different, but there's no point in telling me that mine is wrong or that I'm not doing it right!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That wasn't to insult you. But as you said yourself, many people use camo this way. And I found that it is very easy teach them how to use it right, when you just tell them several times. Thats why I also try this in the forums.
<!--quoteo(post=2044328:date=Dec 12 2012, 11:35 PM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Dec 12 2012, 11:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2044328"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh, and if the com uses scan you gain even more! One dead marine lessens the aggression. But 3 lost t-res for a dead skulk is a gift!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ha, hahaha, oh wow, you don't understand how valuable it is to keep a squad moving through the map do you. 3 tres every 8 seconds to secure a squad of 4's movement to a key location or hive assault? I'll take it ANY day.
I don't see why you would need celerity when you can move just as or almost as fast with good wall jumping.
And if camo is so useless as you people say, it may as well be removed from the game. If it's as good as the opposite end says, it needs to be changed into something that isn't broken.
From my perspective it has never been useful and could have been replaced.
So the obvious solution for all parties, <b>replace camo with something else</b>
<!--quoteo(post=2044378:date=Dec 13 2012, 01:15 AM:name=Champlo0)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Champlo0 @ Dec 13 2012, 01:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2044378"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't see why you would need celerity when you can move just as or almost as fast with good wall jumping.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Celerity stacks with wall jumping, super duper fast.
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
edited December 2012
<!--quoteo(post=2044368:date=Dec 12 2012, 09:01 AM:name=wiry)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wiry @ Dec 12 2012, 09:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2044368"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Whats up with the white walls?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2044482:date=Dec 12 2012, 06:37 PM:name=gnoarch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gnoarch @ Dec 12 2012, 06:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2044482"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->plz someone tell me that this is actually not passing consitency check before I loose any believe in the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Depends on the configuration. This wouldn't work on other servers (ensl servers, HBZ servers, etc.).
<!--quoteo(post=2044482:date=Dec 12 2012, 12:37 PM:name=gnoarch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gnoarch @ Dec 12 2012, 12:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2044482"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->plz someone tell me that this is actually not passing consitency check before I loose any believe in the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good servers are running consistency checking which will stop these laymen cheats. If a server using default consistency checking, then you can cheat in about 500 different ways by simply modifying gamefiles.
I suggest EVERY SERVER OPERATOR reads this post to learn how to protect your server from cheats like you've seen in this thread: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=125689&view=findpost&p=2041552" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...t&p=2041552</a>
LEAVING DEFAULT CONSISTENCY CHECKS ON ALLOWS EVERYONE TO CHEAT WITHOUT EVEN USING REAL HACKS
<!--quoteo(post=2043841:date=Dec 11 2012, 01:41 PM:name=CrushaK)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CrushaK @ Dec 11 2012, 01:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2043841"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->F4 = lose all your pres above 20.
Getting one scan from your commander is cheaper.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't think this is true at all, I've actually dc'ed, and come back and still had 60 res unless it was changed in the most recent patch which I'm pretty sure it wasn't.
You can use the best consistency checks and I could still have whitewalls like that if I wanted, theres some pretty big flaws in the consistency check that dont require anything even close to a real hack, you dont even need to edit a single file.
An honestly thats probably just a white infestation texture, not really huuuge deal. Probably more annoying at times cause its looks pretty reflective.
At first I thought that white infestation was Gunslinger's Christmas Aliens pack from the workshop, then I realized it looks a bit different and nothing else was altered.
<!--quoteo(post=2044526:date=Dec 12 2012, 07:28 PM:name=xDragon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xDragon @ Dec 12 2012, 07:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2044526"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->An honestly thats probably just a white infestation texture, not really huuuge deal. Probably more annoying at times cause its looks pretty reflective.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
?
don't you think it is substantially easier to keep tracks of brownish skulks against a shiny white background compared to green-brownish infestation?!?
<!--quoteo(post=2044310:date=Dec 12 2012, 10:59 PM:name=Mestaritonttu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mestaritonttu @ Dec 12 2012, 10:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2044310"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Great scenario man -NOT, just as ambiguous as before. The second Skulks are scanned they become highly mobile and ANYTHING but stationary. You're not going to mop any floors. Walls. Anything. Unless you've a 100% kill ratio against Skulks doing their best to simply avoid bullets and escape, from FULL HEALTH.
Gah.
Oh well, I might as well stop complaining. Winning all games with camo and when someone thinks it's OP I can just bitterly laugh and tell 'em forums disagree. And the forums get one more OPsayer more. A win-win situation.
Cheers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If someone is creeping up on a marine with camo, they are for the most part not going to bother with hiding line of sight or using terrain to mask movements. If that skulk gets scanned, you now have distance and direct view of him. I'm not sure how you aren't grasping the concept. You imply that this has no benefit to a marine when this occurs whatsoever. That the skulk enrages into some invulnerable killing machine of swift death rather than click, shoot, dead.
Sure this doesn't happen all the time and is pertinent to having res and a decent comm, but a stealth alien has cons as well as pros. It's not just the IWin button.
For a base assault I would rather 5 full speed cara/cele skulks zerging than 5 slow moving camo's who just got scanned.
<!--quoteo(post=2044347:date=Dec 12 2012, 08:10 AM:name=fiveseven)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fiveseven @ Dec 12 2012, 08:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2044347"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Gotta laugh at the irony of complaining about an exploit while using an exploit.
I love building structures in the ceiling in containment hive, refinery. So safe up there :)
//Edit
HEAPS of ceiling-building spots have been fixed in the last few patches. Most of the really obvious/easy ones are gone now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not an exploit? It's a mod I found in the steam workshop. Servers have the ability to regulate these. Here's a mod that makes your infestation snow <a href="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=111599253&searchtext=" target="_blank">http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/file...amp;searchtext=</a> .
Nor is early camo an exploit, just a very strong strategy used in pubs. But its an imbalance in the overall game that needs fixed (mods like these aren't a problem considering if the server wants them or not).
<!--quoteo(post=2043973:date=Dec 11 2012, 05:52 PM:name=Shrimm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shrimm @ Dec 11 2012, 05:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2043973"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why waste all that time when you can just get a scan? or just run into the hive room and find it yourself. Going into spectator to spy on the enemy seems a little unsportsmanlike, Fire.
By the way, the best counter for camo is to not be alone. As long as you and your teammates can aim/react skulks will die before they can get a second bight off. Also ask for scans when you feel aliens are around.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I find when they go camo, they can easily take 1v2s and upwards. And if you don't have a comm who's willing to scan for everyone on your team all the time, I usually find it worth it to just leave the server, f4 and wait, or find the veil myself like this when it's invisible itself. Definitely unsportsmanlike, you're right, but I find the tactic unsportsmanlike itself. I actually posted this thread after playing against the same commander going camo 3 times in a row and easily winning each game, even with a team actively trying to counter it.
<!--quoteo(post=2043835:date=Dec 11 2012, 03:38 PM:name=AFireInAsa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AFireInAsa @ Dec 11 2012, 03:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2043835"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1. F4 2. Go spectate 3. Locate camo veil 4. Go back to Marines and rush it
Seriously, this is the only good counter I can figure out without having a really good commander who's on top of his scans and observatories. Camo rush is a complete pub stomping tactic that wins games far too often. Nerf camo please. I'd say if you even want to keep it in the game, make it like TF2's where they have to uncloack before attacking.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It doesn't take a "really good commander". I can handle it just fine. It adds a couple extra APM required, something in the rage of 5. The bigger problem is that many commanders just don't really even know the obs has that function, how to correctly use it, or how important it is. The whole obs thing gets in the way of the res they need for turret farms.
<!--quoteo(post=2044526:date=Dec 12 2012, 01:28 PM:name=xDragon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xDragon @ Dec 12 2012, 01:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2044526"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You can use the best consistency checks and I could still have whitewalls like that if I wanted, theres some pretty big flaws in the consistency check that dont require anything even close to a real hack, you dont even need to edit a single file.
An honestly thats probably just a white infestation texture, not really huuuge deal. Probably more annoying at times cause its looks pretty reflective.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, but we can vac ban you at that point. We can't issue systemic bans for exploiting a customization system that is freely available to tweak however you like.
What bugs me is pub commanders refuse to adapt to a new strategy once they learn shade/camo is in play. Quite simply: if the commander does more scans and builds more obs, yes it is expensive and will slow down all other tech progression, but it can entirely negate and horribly backfire on the aliens. Remember the aliens are now unable to get cara AND celerity until they have 3 hives, which means either weak or slow Onos etc. Alien players rage hard in the late game if all they've got is camo heh.
<!--quoteo(post=2043956:date=Dec 12 2012, 09:28 AM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Dec 12 2012, 09:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2043956"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like Scan, Obs, SGs, Mines, moving in groups, PGs, rifle-butt, Welders, Flamethrowers, GLs, Rifles, and Jetpacks, to name a few counters.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Realistically, Scans, Obs and Mines are the only actual counters to camo. The rest of what you've listed are general purpose.
Comments
If the Aliens' first hive is a Shade, you will know in the first few seconds where it is thanks to Marine movement, and know what kind of hive it is as soon as one person gets attacked by a cloaked Alien. As soon as you know where and what the hive is, you can mount an offensive to take out the upgrade veils, backed up by Commander scans. Searching/scanning one room for a veil can't be that difficult?
If the Aliens don't start cloaking, you know they went Shift or Crag as their first hive and this whole conversation is moot until later game when/if they choose an additional hive as Shade. Then, still, you know which hive is the Shade hive (as long as you have a short term memory of at least a few minutes and can remember which hive is which).
With regards to defending against cloaked Alien attacks - just move about in groups, with some space between you, and cover each other. It's easier to hit a skulk from a distance than up close, and you should be able to kill a skulk attacking someone else before it kills them. Again, back this up with Commander scans when you hit an Alien-held room, and you're laughing.
Gah.
Oh well, I might as well stop complaining. Winning all games with camo and when someone thinks it's OP I can just bitterly laugh and tell 'em forums disagree. And the forums get one more OPsayer more. A win-win situation.
Cheers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't doubt you for a second that this is your experience. My personal experience is almost the opposite: I find as aliens we run the game a LOT closer if we have a shade hive first (though now I will always be asking for silence rather than camo in any case - more mobility for me is far more important than the option to camp effectively... I find it too passive). If we have shift first, the ability for skulks to respond quickly to threats is, for me, the bigger advantage. Couple that with celerity lerk and you're into the mid game (and adrenaline gorge for those bile bombs...). A shade hive lerk is, in my limited and humble opinion, a far more sorry affair than a shift hive lerk, and as the mid game progresses, I really, really want to have carapace (occasionally regen, depending on what's really needed from the lerk) - carapace and celerity in the mid game are (again, in my biased and ignorant opinion) better than any argued benefits of a shade hive first.
Take the above only as my opinion - as that's all it is. My experience is that shade hives make it much harder for alien teams. I personally love it as marine when aliens go shade hive. They are slower to respond to threats, and the scan counter is particularly effective.
One last comment about celerity not working in combat: that's true, BUT it can get you into biting distance MUCH faster, especially coupled with decent walljumping, so for me it really does give you a combat advantage.
But to the OP: scan and communicate with your comm/teammates. Middle click to spot a threat is surprisingly accurate as well - you can indicate very clearly to your marines where the veil is (or of course just give them a waypoint!).
Roo
LoL. You never get a cloaked skulk down, before he has killed at least 1 marine. Even in a big group. Camo is the best advantage you can get. What do you think would happen if the same skulk moves into that group with cara or cele instead of camo? Do you think he would kill 1 marine in this constellation? Killing one marine out of a big group is the best one skulk can do anyway. And with camo and a little brain, it is guaranteed.
Oh, and if the com uses scan you gain even more! One dead marine lessens the aggression. But 3 lost t-res for a dead skulk is a gift!
Even if you know, that the aliens got early-camo. What will you do? Rush the hive is your solution? Wow. So how is this not the solution to cara or cele hives? If it doesn't matter, than "rush the hive" is always the best you can do and has nothing to do in a discussion about camo being op or not.
<!--quoteo(post=2044323:date=Dec 12 2012, 02:30 PM:name=Roobubba)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Roobubba @ Dec 12 2012, 02:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2044323"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->more mobility for me is far more important than the option to camp effectively... I find it too passive).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's just because you use it wrong. The advantage of camo is, that you can MOVE while invisible. You don't need camo to camp. Just camp at a ceiling. You don't need camo for this.
Also you NEVER use camo all the time. You activate it only when directly engaging marines. You are not much slower with camo as with cara, if you use it right. Because you don't activate it when traveling the map. Run! Travel with walljumps! When you engage a marine you just need to hide for 3 seconds! Than you are invisible and start to engage the marine.
You are right, that camo gets useless in mid-game and for higher life forms. But if you got early camo for your skulks, they have no problem to secure a second or even a third hive. And than you got your other upgrades. You just need to play aggressive with camo and not camp.
Also you NEVER use camo all the time. You activate it only when directly engaging marines. You are not much slower with camo as with cara, if you use it right. Because you don't activate it when traveling the map. Run! Travel with walljumps! When you engage a marine you just need to hide for 3 seconds! Than you are invisible and start to engage the marine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which is why I STILL prefer celerity first, regardless of the horrendous shift nerf recently - because you are so much faster to respond to threats than camo or carapace. For the record, I don't use camo everywhere, and I'm always on the lookout for threats - however in my experience many pub aliens DON'T do this and therein lies much of the problem. As always, teamwork > choice of upgrade, so it's a moot point. Again, it's just my experience and opinion, but that's what it is. I don't doubt that your experience is different, but there's no point in telling me that mine is wrong or that I'm not doing it right!
skulk ---> marine <---------> marine <--- skulk
good luck covering each other
I have an Unreal Engine background, so I tried the "suicide" command. Which didn't work for obvious reasons. "kill" would really not seem like my first choice for intending to kill myself.
Gotta laugh at the irony of complaining about an exploit while using an exploit.
I love building structures in the ceiling in containment hive, refinery. So safe up there :)
//Edit
HEAPS of ceiling-building spots have been fixed in the last few patches. Most of the really obvious/easy ones are gone now.
That wasn't to insult you. But as you said yourself, many people use camo this way. And I found that it is very easy teach them how to use it right, when you just tell them several times. Thats why I also try this in the forums.
This spot. -_-<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
People like you are allowed to play ? rly ?
Ha, hahaha, oh wow, you don't understand how valuable it is to keep a squad moving through the map do you. 3 tres every 8 seconds to secure a squad of 4's movement to a key location or hive assault? I'll take it ANY day.
And if camo is so useless as you people say, it may as well be removed from the game. If it's as good as the opposite end says, it needs to be changed into something that isn't broken.
From my perspective it has never been useful and could have been replaced.
So the obvious solution for all parties, <b>replace camo with something else</b>
Celerity stacks with wall jumping, super duper fast.
False, or rather, it is faced with significant diminished returns.
Welcome to pc gaming.
<a href="http://imgur.com/Qtzwu" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/Qtzwul.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
This spot. -_-<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
plz someone tell me that this is actually not passing consitency check before I loose any believe in the game.
Depends on the configuration. This wouldn't work on other servers (ensl servers, HBZ servers, etc.).
Good servers are running consistency checking which will stop these laymen cheats. If a server using default consistency checking, then you can cheat in about 500 different ways by simply modifying gamefiles.
I suggest EVERY SERVER OPERATOR reads this post to learn how to protect your server from cheats like you've seen in this thread:
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=125689&view=findpost&p=2041552" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...t&p=2041552</a>
LEAVING DEFAULT CONSISTENCY CHECKS ON ALLOWS EVERYONE TO CHEAT WITHOUT EVEN USING REAL HACKS
Getting one scan from your commander is cheaper.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't think this is true at all, I've actually dc'ed, and come back and still had 60 res unless it was changed in the most recent patch which I'm pretty sure it wasn't.
An honestly thats probably just a white infestation texture, not really huuuge deal. Probably more annoying at times cause its looks pretty reflective.
This is the Xmas pack:
<a href="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=111599253&searchtext=" target="_blank">http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/file...amp;searchtext=</a>
?
don't you think it is substantially easier to keep tracks of brownish skulks against a shiny white background compared to green-brownish infestation?!?
Gah.
Oh well, I might as well stop complaining. Winning all games with camo and when someone thinks it's OP I can just bitterly laugh and tell 'em forums disagree. And the forums get one more OPsayer more. A win-win situation.
Cheers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If someone is creeping up on a marine with camo, they are for the most part not going to bother with hiding line of sight or using terrain to mask movements. If that skulk gets scanned, you now have distance and direct view of him. I'm not sure how you aren't grasping the concept. You imply that this has no benefit to a marine when this occurs whatsoever. That the skulk enrages into some invulnerable killing machine of swift death rather than click, shoot, dead.
Sure this doesn't happen all the time and is pertinent to having res and a decent comm, but a stealth alien has cons as well as pros. It's not just the IWin button.
For a base assault I would rather 5 full speed cara/cele skulks zerging than 5 slow moving camo's who just got scanned.
I love building structures in the ceiling in containment hive, refinery. So safe up there :)
//Edit
HEAPS of ceiling-building spots have been fixed in the last few patches. Most of the really obvious/easy ones are gone now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not an exploit? It's a mod I found in the steam workshop. Servers have the ability to regulate these. Here's a mod that makes your infestation snow <a href="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=111599253&searchtext=" target="_blank">http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/file...amp;searchtext=</a> .
Nor is early camo an exploit, just a very strong strategy used in pubs. But its an imbalance in the overall game that needs fixed (mods like these aren't a problem considering if the server wants them or not).
By the way, the best counter for camo is to not be alone. As long as you and your teammates can aim/react skulks will die before they can get a second bight off. Also ask for scans when you feel aliens are around.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I find when they go camo, they can easily take 1v2s and upwards. And if you don't have a comm who's willing to scan for everyone on your team all the time, I usually find it worth it to just leave the server, f4 and wait, or find the veil myself like this when it's invisible itself. Definitely unsportsmanlike, you're right, but I find the tactic unsportsmanlike itself. I actually posted this thread after playing against the same commander going camo 3 times in a row and easily winning each game, even with a team actively trying to counter it.
2. Go spectate
3. Locate camo veil
4. Go back to Marines and rush it
Seriously, this is the only good counter I can figure out without having a really good commander who's on top of his scans and observatories. Camo rush is a complete pub stomping tactic that wins games far too often. Nerf camo please. I'd say if you even want to keep it in the game, make it like TF2's where they have to uncloack before attacking.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It doesn't take a "really good commander". I can handle it just fine. It adds a couple extra APM required, something in the rage of 5. The bigger problem is that many commanders just don't really even know the obs has that function, how to correctly use it, or how important it is. The whole obs thing gets in the way of the res they need for turret farms.
An honestly thats probably just a white infestation texture, not really huuuge deal. Probably more annoying at times cause its looks pretty reflective.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, but we can vac ban you at that point. We can't issue systemic bans for exploiting a customization system that is freely available to tweak however you like.
<!--quoteo(post=2043956:date=Dec 12 2012, 09:28 AM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Dec 12 2012, 09:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2043956"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like Scan, Obs, SGs, Mines, moving in groups, PGs, rifle-butt, Welders, Flamethrowers, GLs, Rifles, and Jetpacks, to name a few counters.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Realistically, Scans, Obs and Mines are the only actual counters to camo. The rest of what you've listed are general purpose.