KungFuSquirrelBasher of MuttonsJoin Date: 2002-01-26Member: 103Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
edited December 2002
I've played it, and I worked with a legally acquired licensee evaluation of it at the office this summer for about 2-3 months before the game was released. I was at one point on board a UT2K3 mod team before other commitments pulled me away and I've been in contact with Lee Perry, a designer at Epic and also one of the guys responsible for the current state of the static mesh system's design. I love the engine and hope to work on some form of it professionally someday. I love the static mesh system, I love the textures, and I love the effects. Hell, I'm one of few HL folk around you'll see proclaiming a love for the editor.
Yes yes, NS just seems to fit on the HL engine for some reason. Plus, perhaps they could use some stuff from Condition Zero, such as transparencies on models?
<!--QuoteBegin--Surge+Dec 25 2002, 02:58 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Surge @ Dec 25 2002, 02:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yes yes, NS just seems to fit on the HL engine for some reason. Plus, perhaps they could use some stuff from Condition Zero, such as transparencies on models?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Heh, reading that new CS:CZ preview made me laugh uncontrolably. Actually seeing the pics did that even more. To see a game being developed by three profesional game developers have the same graphics (actually worse) then a mod (NS) is hilarious.
Not to mention the game has been delayed for about a year now and is supposed to come out "spring 2003" haha yeah right.
WHERES MY TF2 DAMN IT!!! <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> Stupid CS cash cow rolls over everything.
Squirrel, no I haven't, I saw this avatar somewhere on the net and copied it to my drive.
And Squirrel is right. Not all of us have the convenience of being 24+ (out of college) and owning our own computer and having the cash to upgrade it to run UT2k3 at a good FPS.
And yes, I have played UT2k3 on a pretty good system. It's got high-poly models but no flavor to the gameplay. Can't even imagine it coming close to HL mods in terms of teamplay.
Not to mention Valve seems to support a lot of the mod dev teams with help and other stuff. From what I read from the Readme of the SDK at least.
<!--QuoteBegin--SmokeNova+Dec 25 2002, 03:45 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SmokeNova @ Dec 25 2002, 03:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And Squirrel is right. Not all of us have the convenience of being 24+ (out of college) and owning our own computer and having the cash to upgrade it to run UT2k3 at a good FPS.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Im 15 and own a computer with no video card and UT2k3 runs fine.
Its not like anyone is asking them to pack up all thier **obscenity** and move to UT2k3, noones even saying that they should do it soon. I think some of us were just suggesting that they should maybe look into it.
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> ever look at crystal space? cross platform 3d engine being worked out.... Open source --- free as in beer. Can't get any easier to mod than that. and I don't want to buy an inferior operation system as well as another bloody game that I really don't need as well as another video card, maybe a sound card that would support microphones better..... hell... might as well get a new processor and mobo and I'm down 2k just to keep playing NS and nobody wants that right? and of course if the NS community donated money to the crystal space team I imagine they would be more than willing to add features. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> just another $0.02
<!--QuoteBegin--doctorskizo+Dec 24 2002, 10:50 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (doctorskizo @ Dec 24 2002, 10:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->dont forget utk23 doesnt have voice comm....or last i checked. anyways, the hl engine is going to get beefed up by valve anyway so what's the point in moving?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> wut do you mean "beefed up by valve"? if your referring to Condition Zero's <b>tweaked</b> HL engine, thats an entirely different game.
KungFuSquirrelBasher of MuttonsJoin Date: 2002-01-26Member: 103Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
<!--QuoteBegin--|SemperFi|+Dec 25 2002, 03:50 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (|SemperFi| @ Dec 25 2002, 03:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Im 15 and own a computer with no video card and UT2k3 runs fine.
What were you saying again?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The unoptimized licensee eval UT2K3 ran fine on a P3 400 with a TNT2 back in June.
There are people who don't even have THAT. That 'no video card' could still be a half-decent on-board chip, too.
<!--QuoteBegin--KungFuSquirrel+Dec 25 2002, 04:30 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (KungFuSquirrel @ Dec 25 2002, 04:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The unoptimized licensee eval UT2K3 ran fine on a P3 400 with a TNT2 back in June.
There are people who don't even have THAT. That 'no video card' could still be a half-decent on-board chip, too.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Meh, Intel 82845g/gl Graphics controller.
But still even on less computers anyone can buy a 40$ geforce 2.
I agree with rambling. Not all of us feel like upgrading our system (I have a piii 450, 128 SDram, 16meg TNT2 and 20 gig HD) just to play a new game with a good mod. If NS goes UT2k3, I'm goin back to Counter-Strike.
Why are you jumping to such conclusions smoke? Even if the NS team were to decide to convert to the UT2K3 engine now, it would still take a long time for them to release it. You dont think you could upgrade your computer in at least one year or so?
I mean when i say that they hsould think about looking at the UT engine i dont even have them moving to it in the next year or so. I see it going there in maybe 2 years.
Dont jump to conclusions so fast, you dont know what could happen over the next two years, although i know im probably not going to still be playing halflife 2 years from now, no matter what mod is on it.
Why go back to CS? Even if a port to UT2K3 was made, theres nothing stopping you or anyone from playing the HL version thats already out. It doesnt mean one gets pulled from the net so theres only one version to play.
I would like a UT2K3 port. Everything aside, like more work for devs and such, admit it: it would be cool to see it on a different engine. It may or may not happen (probably not), but it's nice to dream. I would love to pop a skulk on the celing and watch the rag-doll take over as it tumbles to the ground.
If the NS team doent make it, fine. If they do, great. Or even if another team made it, or something simmilar....cool. I would love to have the option to play NS on several engines, if I could. I dont see a problem with <i>wanting</i> another version, wether it happens or not.
BTW All I'm no rich kid. I'm no 24+ out of college, but I still do not need my parents to bail meout and upgrade my computer. Get jobs, If I can you can. Or just download from Warez sites with the other 82Million people.
I wasn't jumping to conclusions, but look at how long the NS team took to release just 1 mod, for 1 game that's been called the easiest to mod for and has billions (well, not that many) of tutorials for any aspect.
If it took them that long to get version 1.0 out for HL, how long do you think the HL version would keep getting upgraded if they were also working on a UT2k3 version, which might have support from Epic but won't have the vast numbers of experienced modders willing to give help to each other.
And yes, I probably could go get a job but I look at all my friends who get jobs and their grades drop from high B's to low D's...I would rather get into a good college and buy a kick **obscenity** computer when the games actually will be fun.
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
edited December 2002
I definitely want to see NS on the UT2k3 or any newer (quake 4 anyone?) engine. Why? I'd get a way better framerate in NST2K3 than regular NS, I'll explain with some numbers:
My Half-Life fp/s=75-60 My NS fp/s= 20-5 (big difference there no?) My UT2K3 fp/s= 45-35
The main cause of slowdown seems to be the massive amount of entities and brushes in the maps, which the Half-Life engine doesn't handle very well, and the 50 odd structures mid-game (most of which are turrets, there really needs to be a limit per area or TF) don't help either. Newer engines like Unreal and Quake 3 can take a much larger amount of entities/brushes (or whatever you call them in those engines) without too much slowdown meaning where I lost an astounding 50 odd fp/s when playing NS on the Half-Life engine I'd probably only loose 10-25 fps when playing NST2K3.
SmokeNova: A few things, how much of NS's development time do you think was spent balancing? A hell of a lot methinks, and they wouldnt have to spend very much time balancing NS again, sure there would a few minor issues (shadows might play a large role for example) but nothing compared to what they did to make NS the way it is now, and the rest wouldn't take _that_ long. And UT2K3 has pretty low system requirements by todays standards, all you need is a geforce 2 mx (and mx sucks) or faster and a decent amount of ram (dirt cheap these days), and I can almost garuntee you that even if flayra posts 5 seconds after me saying the NS team is starting on a port right away (followed shortly by my discovering of a 5 million dollar cheque in the mail from some rich uncle I never new I had) it will _not_ be done before the summer, in which case there will be no school to fail and (almost) no excuse for not having a job.
[edit] forgot to add this: I fully support the NS teams decisions and will continue to do so unltil they introduce a triple barreled nuclear gatling gun which grants the user invunerability, if flayra says no it means no and I respect that, I think flay himself said something about possibly porting to HL2 if it ever comes out, I secretly desire to play it on DNF(I still believe thier "pulling a VALVe") though...
The biggest advantage of the UT engine as implemented in UT2003 is that it scales well. A computer at the minimum system requirements of NS would run it just as well on the UT engine as it would the HL engine, and the UT engine would work much better with lots of entities and look nicer on higher-end systems. However, it would likely be a year of work for the developers to get NS to its current level on the UT engine, because of all the custom code they've written. The levels should be convertable without a lot of trouble, and the models would be very easy (just needs a plugin), it's all the custom code they've written that would be more of a pain to convert.
Comments
That said, keep NS on HL.
Heh, reading that new CS:CZ preview made me laugh uncontrolably. Actually seeing the pics did that even more. To see a game being developed by three profesional game developers have the same graphics (actually worse) then a mod (NS) is hilarious.
Not to mention the game has been delayed for about a year now and is supposed to come out "spring 2003" haha yeah right.
WHERES MY TF2 DAMN IT!!! <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Stupid CS cash cow rolls over everything.
And Squirrel is right. Not all of us have the convenience of being 24+ (out of college) and owning our own computer and having the cash to upgrade it to run UT2k3 at a good FPS.
And yes, I have played UT2k3 on a pretty good system. It's got high-poly models but no flavor to the gameplay. Can't even imagine it coming close to HL mods in terms of teamplay.
Not to mention Valve seems to support a lot of the mod dev teams with help and other stuff. From what I read from the Readme of the SDK at least.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Im 15 and own a computer with no video card and UT2k3 runs fine.
What were you saying again?
NS on ut2k3? My reaction to that is beyond the words allowed on this forum. It would also involve large amounts of drool.
2k3 uses Maya for map design.. lol.
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ol|confidential
wut do you mean "beefed up by valve"? if your referring to Condition Zero's <b>tweaked</b> HL engine, thats an entirely different game.
What were you saying again?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The unoptimized licensee eval UT2K3 ran fine on a P3 400 with a TNT2 back in June.
There are people who don't even have THAT. That 'no video card' could still be a half-decent on-board chip, too.
There are people who don't even have THAT. That 'no video card' could still be a half-decent on-board chip, too.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Meh, Intel 82845g/gl Graphics controller.
But still even on less computers anyone can buy a 40$ geforce 2.
I mean when i say that they hsould think about looking at the UT engine i dont even have them moving to it in the next year or so. I see it going there in maybe 2 years.
Dont jump to conclusions so fast, you dont know what could happen over the next two years, although i know im probably not going to still be playing halflife 2 years from now, no matter what mod is on it.
I would like a UT2K3 port. Everything aside, like more work for devs and such, admit it: it would be cool to see it on a different engine. It may or may not happen (probably not), but it's nice to dream. I would love to pop a skulk on the celing and watch the rag-doll take over as it tumbles to the ground.
If the NS team doent make it, fine. If they do, great. Or even if another team made it, or something simmilar....cool. I would love to have the option to play NS on several engines, if I could. I dont see a problem with <i>wanting</i> another version, wether it happens or not.
If it took them that long to get version 1.0 out for HL, how long do you think the HL version would keep getting upgraded if they were also working on a UT2k3 version, which might have support from Epic but won't have the vast numbers of experienced modders willing to give help to each other.
And yes, I probably could go get a job but I look at all my friends who get jobs and their grades drop from high B's to low D's...I would rather get into a good college and buy a kick **obscenity** computer when the games actually will be fun.
Well, that's not exactly a high end system
especially if that p4 is a willamete
My Half-Life fp/s=75-60
My NS fp/s= 20-5 (big difference there no?)
My UT2K3 fp/s= 45-35
The main cause of slowdown seems to be the massive amount of entities and brushes in the maps, which the Half-Life engine doesn't handle very well, and the 50 odd structures mid-game (most of which are turrets, there really needs to be a limit per area or TF) don't help either. Newer engines like Unreal and Quake 3 can take a much larger amount of entities/brushes (or whatever you call them in those engines) without too much slowdown meaning where I lost an astounding 50 odd fp/s when playing NS on the Half-Life engine I'd probably only loose 10-25 fps when playing NST2K3.
SmokeNova: A few things, how much of NS's development time do you think was spent balancing? A hell of a lot methinks, and they wouldnt have to spend very much time balancing NS again, sure there would a few minor issues (shadows might play a large role for example) but nothing compared to what they did to make NS the way it is now, and the rest wouldn't take _that_ long. And UT2K3 has pretty low system requirements by todays standards, all you need is a geforce 2 mx (and mx sucks) or faster and a decent amount of ram (dirt cheap these days), and I can almost garuntee you that even if flayra posts 5 seconds after me saying the NS team is starting on a port right away (followed shortly by my discovering of a 5 million dollar cheque in the mail from some rich uncle I never new I had) it will _not_ be done before the summer, in which case there will be no school to fail and (almost) no excuse for not having a job.
[edit] forgot to add this: I fully support the NS teams decisions and will continue to do so unltil they introduce a triple barreled nuclear gatling gun which grants the user invunerability, if flayra says no it means no and I respect that, I think flay himself said something about possibly porting to HL2 if it ever comes out, I secretly desire to play it on DNF(I still believe thier "pulling a VALVe") though...
why? er...because i said so! and i have doubts that UT2003 would actually run on my computer...
bring on HL2....