I'd like to think the same people arguing for the removal of glancing bites will come crying back to the forums complaining how they keep missing their bites. Hey guess what? If you're complaining about glancing bites ruining your simulation of the outcome of a fight against a 'rine, then you'd be missing them anyway without the mechanic.
A good skulk will still murder a Marine with full bites and those lagging behind can still kill a Marine, but will have to expose themselves to gunfire longer to do so. How in the bloody hell is this a bad mechanic? Though I wouldn't mind removing glancing bites if hit registration is actually reliable (hi bite to a stationary 'rine disappearing into the void). Until then, it works fine so leave it alone.
As for feedback, add it to the "hints" you get when you have the option ticked on when playing as Skulk. Though that option is annoying as hell when it keeps pinging every single time until you obey the "hint."
instead of reducing the glancing blow radius; i would prefer a change to rifle butt. currently rifle butt is underused - why delay your reload or not switch to pistol?
crazy idea - if timed correctly, the rifle butt can effectively 'block' a skulk attack.
imo this change could add more dynamics to marine vs skulk than "lolz you missed your shots i killz u!". it should allow skilled marines a better chance to pwn awful skulks (taking less cheap glancing hits) and also make rifle butt a more appealing choice for melee range combat instead of being blatantly inferior to firing your weapon.
the skulk would still be able to 'bait' a rifle butt and then bite afterwards, rewarding anticipation and skill in that regard rather than "PRESS MOUS 1 BUTTAN!!"
<!--quoteo(post=2035215:date=Nov 26 2012, 09:05 PM:name=tarquinbb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tarquinbb @ Nov 26 2012, 09:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2035215"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->instead of reducing the glancing blow radius; i would prefer a change to rifle butt. currently rifle butt is underused - why delay your reload or not switch to pistol?
crazy idea - if timed correctly, the rifle butt can effectively 'block' a skulk attack.
imo this change could add more dynamics to marine vs skulk than "lolz you missed your shots i killz u!". it should allow skilled marines a better chance to pwn awful skulks (taking less cheap glancing hits) and also make rifle butt a more appealing choice for melee range combat instead of being blatantly inferior to firing your weapon.
the skulk would still be able to 'bait' a rifle butt and then bite afterwards, rewarding anticipation and skill in that regard rather than "PRESS MOUS 1 BUTTAN!!"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
With the erratic nature of melee combat in this game, any block would be complete fluke. Even if you were somehow super human and could time it perfectly even in complete chaos, you would never be able to overcome the sizeable uncertainty that is multiplayer collisions.
<!--quoteo(post=2035019:date=Nov 26 2012, 05:59 AM:name=Shrimm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shrimm @ Nov 26 2012, 05:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2035019"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...They help new players get into the game and doesn't really assist the skilled player...
...But even if the alien wins were so high removing glancing bites isn't going to do squat to change that. In fact I think removing glancing bites would make aliens win more...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wanna bet? I think it'll make a PROFOUND difference, especially on pubs. 50 damage for a missed bite is quite a large "free" handout. I wish I got 5 damage on all those bullets that were so close, but they missed.
<!--quoteo(post=2035019:date=Nov 26 2012, 05:59 AM:name=Shrimm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shrimm @ Nov 26 2012, 05:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2035019"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->EDIT: Are you sure you were in the beta? before release the cone was ridiculously big to the point were skulks were arguably better than every other unit at fighting marines. Then it got nerfed to the point where skulks were way to difficult to play for a majority of players. And then they introduced glancing bites and everyone was happy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There were ups and downs in the beta, first there was a problem with bites not registering "sometimes," then the cone was too big, then the marines started bouncing like ping pong balls when collided with (the infamous 223 games which I'll never forget).
However, in the patches where those things weren't a big problem, the skulk/AR marine fight was pretty good. It wasn't a case of "in most situations if the skulk doesn't die on the way to the marine, the marine dies," and it actually involved aiming on the alien side too. Was it frustrating to miss bites? You bet. It only made me try harder next time and try to aim more carefully though. Now it's like, meh, if I get there, I just need to land 3 quick bites. Even if one is a miss the free handout will make him die anyway.
<!--quoteo(post=2035215:date=Nov 26 2012, 12:05 PM:name=tarquinbb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tarquinbb @ Nov 26 2012, 12:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2035215"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->crazy idea - if timed correctly, the rifle butt can effectively 'block' a skulk attack.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That was in the beta. Was never good at it, and then it silently got removed. No idea why.
<!--quoteo(post=2035126:date=Nov 26 2012, 08:07 AM:name=Rokiyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rokiyo @ Nov 26 2012, 08:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2035126"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm amused by all these pros more or less arguing that they wish they had missed because dealing damage inconveniences them.
I especially liked the marine commander who doesn't bother with A2/A3 because the difference between 8 glancing hits and 12 glancing hits isn't noticable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm amused that you think it's bad to miss and penalize for it and encourage more accurate play? Not to mention random damage numbers are bad game mechanics? Hit or miss is really the way to go. Anything else leaves the player without knowing if he actually did any significant damage or not.
Maybe if there was a better way of knowing which damage you did 25/50/75 it would be more okay.
I don't bother with A2 or A3 unless we have the spare resource. Nano/Medpacks can make up the slack in those bigger engagements. A2/A3 is just a convenience mostly.
Armor 1 is the most important and you don't see a big effect with A2 against Fades just Skulks, and then finally A3 helps against Fades.
I see the point of them, to prevent lawnmower skulks from demolishing anything but also give new players a 'close but not close enough' sort of feedback. But seriously as a skulk i want to remove them or atleast have the option of turning them off, 1 para 2 bites please. And as a fade they need to go die in a fire.
<!--quoteo(post=2035289:date=Nov 26 2012, 09:25 PM:name=Locklear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Locklear @ Nov 26 2012, 09:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2035289"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm amused that you think it's bad to miss and penalize for it and encourage more accurate play? Not to mention random damage numbers are bad game mechanics? Hit or miss is really the way to go. Anything else leaves the player without knowing if he actually did any significant damage or not.
Maybe if there was a better way of knowing which damage you did 25/50/75 it would be more okay.
I don't bother with A2 or A3 unless we have the spare resource. Nano/Medpacks can make up the slack in those bigger engagements. A2/A3 is just a convenience mostly.
Armor 1 is the most important and you don't see a big effect with A2 against Fades just Skulks, and then finally A3 helps against Fades.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Doesnt armour 2 take you from 2 swipes to 3 swipes vs a fade? I seem to remember back when fades where useful shotguns and armour 2 was needed slightly before they came out
Glancing bites reward me for missing, which I do not like at all. I'd rather miss completely than do partial damage, because missing completely and dying will give me the proper feedback to adjust my aim.
In the current unoptimized state of the game with fps drops in firefights I want to be forced to learn exactly where to bite like in NS1. Not any of this "sh#t! was that lag? fps drop, or 16 partial damage bites on the edge of the marine?".
<!--quoteo(post=2034859:date=Nov 26 2012, 12:38 AM:name=HeatSurge)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HeatSurge @ Nov 26 2012, 12:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034859"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It actually is a free gimmick.
It was introduced a week or two before release, and games worked pretty well before its introduction. It was just the "full hit" cone before, either hit or miss.
Since skulks are in the "marine's world" when they're closing the gap, why don't we introduce "glancing bullet hits" for when you don't quite hit the skulks but you shoot close enough for 5 and 2 damage each?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm actually in favor of damage specific regions for most of the player models. A little extra damage for headshots and a little reduced damage for arm and leg shots, and bone wall for the onos. 1 in a million players would actually be able to make use of it, but it lifts the skill ceiling, which I think is a good thing.
<!--quoteo(post=2035322:date=Nov 26 2012, 05:07 PM:name=RobustPenguin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RobustPenguin @ Nov 26 2012, 05:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2035322"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I see the point of them, to prevent lawnmower skulks from demolishing anything but also give new players a 'close but not close enough' sort of feedback. But seriously as a skulk i want to remove them or atleast have the option of turning them off, 1 para 2 bites please. And as a fade they need to go die in a fire.
Doesnt armour 2 take you from 2 swipes to 3 swipes vs a fade? I seem to remember back when fades where useful shotguns and armour 2 was needed slightly before they came out<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, Armor 1 does that. Armor 2 is useless except for mitigating glancing blows.
[edit] Armor 2 is useful for skulks though, it makes it 4 bites vs 3.
What's funny about this argument is that I think it ties closely the "Skulks are too big in NS2" debate.
We have the one side complaining that their character model is so big, that its too easy to hit. And we have the other side complaining that skulks dont even have to aim to do damage, regardless of the fact that they still need to be in melee range.
I keep reading people saying that youre penalizing skill-caps by giving skulks a glancing bite so they have to aim less accurately. This is a load of bullcrap. Which one of you, as a Skulk, is telling yourself that you rather hit that Marine with a SG with glancing bites, as oppose to killing him asap with precise bites? That's right. None of you. Glancing bites is not some sort of "lazy" mechanic. Melee combat is frantic: you're jumping around, sometimes the marine is too. Sometimes you'll have a perfect bite lined up, and right when you click, the marine jumps and you wiff your 75 damage bite. OH WELL. Wish I couldve done some damage as oppose to none because the marine spam jumped at the right time.
This whole "it severely dictates the direction of the early game" argument is full of garbage too. Marines are constantly ahead of Aliens in RT's in the early game with equal skilled teams. If you're blaming glancing bites as the reason why you're losing against skulks in the early game, you need to get better.
Not the Face!Join Date: 2012-11-27Member: 173437Members
<!--quoteo(post=2034859:date=Nov 26 2012, 12:38 AM:name=HeatSurge)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HeatSurge @ Nov 26 2012, 12:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034859"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It actually is a free gimmick.
It was introduced a week or two before release, and games worked pretty well before its introduction. It was just the "full hit" cone before, either hit or miss.
Since skulks are in the "marine's world" when they're closing the gap, why don't we introduce "glancing bullet hits" for when you don't quite hit the skulks but you shoot close enough for 5 and 2 damage each?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2034704:date=Nov 25 2012, 08:59 PM:name=Jarl Ballin')--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jarl Ballin' @ Nov 25 2012, 08:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034704"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Against. If Skulks are forced to have glancing bites than marines should have to have glancing bullet wounds. Either way it's stupid. Just do away with it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There already is glancing bullets. Hit with part of an AR clip. Hit with some of the Shotgun pellets. Hit with only a short time of Minigun fire. Hit only a short time of Flamethrower fire. With lower skilled play you can partially miss with guns by only hitting part of a spray.
I didn't realize glancing blows where a thing until this thread but it seems to be an equivalent mechanic to me. If it's problematic it should be adjusted not removed.
Before glancing bites were introduced and the bite cone reduced significantly, it was met with both praise and scorn. It was nice because before skulk biting was pretty much on 'easy mode' and the new cone didn't allow for skulks to spam jump around biting willy nilly and actually had to focus on the target.
However, it was bad because it was INCREDIBLY inconsistent in registering bites that should have landed (i.e. ones that land dead centre). Too often I would be waiting for a marine in a hiding place, then sneak up behind him and bite right in the middle and its still misses. The marine would then just shoot me down when I should have for all intents and purposes, killed him, as I certainly had the drop on him and closed the distance, and my meelee aim was arguably precise enough to get the hits in (but don't).
Glancing bites were a welcome change at the time (after the nightmare build before) because it didn't reward 'easy' bites too much by applying full damage, and still allowed you to do at least some damage if the game gets it wrong. It was a nice compromise between the developers not wanting a marine to die to a skulk biting him on the corner of the foot, and the people who thought the reduced bite cone was poorly implemented and registration was inconsistent.
I wouldn't mind them getting rid of the glancing bites and reducing the bite cone to up the skill level involved in skulking. HOWEVER, not if it is broken like it was before. It was far too frustrating to play because it just feels like you're constantly getting robbed of kills when bites that should land don't. I certainly wouldn't be playing today if it were still this way, and I'm sure many other people would have lost interest too.
So, reduce the cone if you can do it right this time. If you want to make it more difficult to bite, than do so, but take a LOT more time making sure everything registers correctly when it should. And remember, a reduced bite cone would be nice, but bite is a melee weapon, not some high precision sniper rifle. Don't overdo it.
I honestly don't really care that much either way. It's a bit like +movement - the good players can function perfectly fine without it, all it really does is let the average player be a little more effective while not requiring them to actually improve. The current wonky collision detection/melee hit detection is obfuscating its true effects and if/when that gets improved, I expect glancing bites will need some tweaking.
I think glancing bites are great as-is, but the feedback needs to be far better. It should be obvious from the sound and effects that you only scored a glancing bite. Reading the numbers in the heat of battle can be very tricky.
<!--quoteo(post=2036043:date=Nov 27 2012, 05:44 PM:name=Not the Face!)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Not the Face! @ Nov 27 2012, 05:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2036043"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There already is glancing bullets. Hit with part of an AR clip. Hit with some of the Shotgun pellets. Hit with only a short time of Minigun fire. Hit only a short time of Flamethrower fire. With lower skilled play you can partially miss with guns by only hitting part of a spray.
I didn't realize glancing blows where a thing until this thread but it seems to be an equivalent mechanic to me. If it's problematic it should be adjusted not removed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wow. This is amazingly disingenuous. By your logic, regular bites are already glancing bites too because you might not land all your bites.
Yes to Glancing bites. Helps out noobs. God knows they need the help in a game that has such a high learning curve. Its just less frustrating when you have a greater chance to hit, even if for less damage, against a dancing marine who hops on your head.
<!--quoteo(post=2036546:date=Nov 28 2012, 10:59 AM:name=Underwhelmed)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Underwhelmed @ Nov 28 2012, 10:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2036546"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wow. This is amazingly disingenuous. By your logic, regular bites are already glancing bites too because you might not land all your bites.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The shotgun comparison is pretty direct. You fire your shotgun, but get lower than the max damage based on your aim/distance. Just like skulks.
Like I said back when this first came up, glancing bites are a solution to a fundamental problem with alien melee - that problem being that new players, and even a lot of vets, just don't get it. To them it's not a weapon you aim carefully and make precise bites, it's a spam weapon where you hold down mouse 1 perpetually while in melee range. So many otherwise decent players are guilty of this. They have no intention of learning differently and there isn't a clear way to educate them. We shouldn't dumb down the full damage hitboxes to accommodate that playstyle, but we do have to make the game fun for them, so a good compromise is to give them lesser rewards. Their damage will be improved if they learn to aim properly, but if not at least they're still competitive.
They need to add <b>different sounds for indirect bites, and reduce the flinch effect for Marines</b>. This way, as a skulk, you have instantaneous feedback of whether your attack was successful, and in a way that does not obscure your vision. Reducing the flinch for small bites will also give Marines a way to know when they have taken a direct hit, and help them track warping skulks at point-blank range.
<!--quoteo(post=2036729:date=Nov 28 2012, 02:34 PM:name=pendelum5)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pendelum5 @ Nov 28 2012, 02:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2036729"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This way, as a skulk, you have instantaneous feedback of whether your attack was successful<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I find an attack, which should've missed completely, doing 50 damage instead of 75 pretty successful xD .
But anyway, I agree better visual feedback like different color numbers would be good for "glancing" bites.
To all you people who say "it's not clear whats going on it should be removed"
Have you considered the addition of a tool-tip on the loading screen. You know....that place where they tell you all kinds of other game information not clear to newbies.
Comments
A good skulk will still murder a Marine with full bites and those lagging behind can still kill a Marine, but will have to expose themselves to gunfire longer to do so. How in the bloody hell is this a bad mechanic? Though I wouldn't mind removing glancing bites if hit registration is actually reliable (hi bite to a stationary 'rine disappearing into the void). Until then, it works fine so leave it alone.
As for feedback, add it to the "hints" you get when you have the option ticked on when playing as Skulk. Though that option is annoying as hell when it keeps pinging every single time until you obey the "hint."
crazy idea - if timed correctly, the rifle butt can effectively 'block' a skulk attack.
imo this change could add more dynamics to marine vs skulk than "lolz you missed your shots i killz u!". it should allow skilled marines a better chance to pwn awful skulks (taking less cheap glancing hits) and also make rifle butt a more appealing choice for melee range combat instead of being blatantly inferior to firing your weapon.
the skulk would still be able to 'bait' a rifle butt and then bite afterwards, rewarding anticipation and skill in that regard rather than "PRESS MOUS 1 BUTTAN!!"
crazy idea - if timed correctly, the rifle butt can effectively 'block' a skulk attack.
imo this change could add more dynamics to marine vs skulk than "lolz you missed your shots i killz u!". it should allow skilled marines a better chance to pwn awful skulks (taking less cheap glancing hits) and also make rifle butt a more appealing choice for melee range combat instead of being blatantly inferior to firing your weapon.
the skulk would still be able to 'bait' a rifle butt and then bite afterwards, rewarding anticipation and skill in that regard rather than "PRESS MOUS 1 BUTTAN!!"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
With the erratic nature of melee combat in this game, any block would be complete fluke. Even if you were somehow super human and could time it perfectly even in complete chaos, you would never be able to overcome the sizeable uncertainty that is multiplayer collisions.
...But even if the alien wins were so high removing glancing bites isn't going to do squat to change that. In fact I think removing glancing bites would make aliens win more...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wanna bet? I think it'll make a PROFOUND difference, especially on pubs. 50 damage for a missed bite is quite a large "free" handout. I wish I got 5 damage on all those bullets that were so close, but they missed.
<!--quoteo(post=2035019:date=Nov 26 2012, 05:59 AM:name=Shrimm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shrimm @ Nov 26 2012, 05:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2035019"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->EDIT: Are you sure you were in the beta? before release the cone was ridiculously big to the point were skulks were arguably better than every other unit at fighting marines. Then it got nerfed to the point where skulks were way to difficult to play for a majority of players. And then they introduced glancing bites and everyone was happy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There were ups and downs in the beta, first there was a problem with bites not registering "sometimes," then the cone was too big, then the marines started bouncing like ping pong balls when collided with (the infamous 223 games which I'll never forget).
However, in the patches where those things weren't a big problem, the skulk/AR marine fight was pretty good. It wasn't a case of "in most situations if the skulk doesn't die on the way to the marine, the marine dies," and it actually involved aiming on the alien side too. Was it frustrating to miss bites? You bet. It only made me try harder next time and try to aim more carefully though. Now it's like, meh, if I get there, I just need to land 3 quick bites. Even if one is a miss the free handout will make him die anyway.
<!--quoteo(post=2035215:date=Nov 26 2012, 12:05 PM:name=tarquinbb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tarquinbb @ Nov 26 2012, 12:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2035215"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->crazy idea - if timed correctly, the rifle butt can effectively 'block' a skulk attack.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That was in the beta. Was never good at it, and then it silently got removed. No idea why.
I especially liked the marine commander who doesn't bother with A2/A3 because the difference between 8 glancing hits and 12 glancing hits isn't noticable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm amused that you think it's bad to miss and penalize for it and encourage more accurate play?
Not to mention random damage numbers are bad game mechanics? Hit or miss is really the way to go. Anything else leaves the player without knowing if he actually did any significant damage or not.
Maybe if there was a better way of knowing which damage you did 25/50/75 it would be more okay.
I don't bother with A2 or A3 unless we have the spare resource. Nano/Medpacks can make up the slack in those bigger engagements. A2/A3 is just a convenience mostly.
Armor 1 is the most important and you don't see a big effect with A2 against Fades just Skulks, and then finally A3 helps against Fades.
<!--quoteo(post=2035289:date=Nov 26 2012, 09:25 PM:name=Locklear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Locklear @ Nov 26 2012, 09:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2035289"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm amused that you think it's bad to miss and penalize for it and encourage more accurate play?
Not to mention random damage numbers are bad game mechanics? Hit or miss is really the way to go. Anything else leaves the player without knowing if he actually did any significant damage or not.
Maybe if there was a better way of knowing which damage you did 25/50/75 it would be more okay.
I don't bother with A2 or A3 unless we have the spare resource. Nano/Medpacks can make up the slack in those bigger engagements. A2/A3 is just a convenience mostly.
Armor 1 is the most important and you don't see a big effect with A2 against Fades just Skulks, and then finally A3 helps against Fades.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Doesnt armour 2 take you from 2 swipes to 3 swipes vs a fade? I seem to remember back when fades where useful shotguns and armour 2 was needed slightly before they came out
Glancing bites reward me for missing, which I do not like at all. I'd rather miss completely than do partial damage, because missing completely and dying will give me the proper feedback to adjust my aim.
In the current unoptimized state of the game with fps drops in firefights I want to be forced to learn exactly where to bite like in NS1. Not any of this "sh#t! was that lag? fps drop, or 16 partial damage bites on the edge of the marine?".
keep the wide angle
and randomize the dmg
that would be awesome
randomized glancing bites!
It was introduced a week or two before release, and games worked pretty well before its introduction. It was just the "full hit" cone before, either hit or miss.
Since skulks are in the "marine's world" when they're closing the gap, why don't we introduce "glancing bullet hits" for when you don't quite hit the skulks but you shoot close enough for 5 and 2 damage each?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm actually in favor of damage specific regions for most of the player models. A little extra damage for headshots and a little reduced damage for arm and leg shots, and bone wall for the onos. 1 in a million players would actually be able to make use of it, but it lifts the skill ceiling, which I think is a good thing.
Doesnt armour 2 take you from 2 swipes to 3 swipes vs a fade? I seem to remember back when fades where useful shotguns and armour 2 was needed slightly before they came out<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, Armor 1 does that. Armor 2 is useless except for mitigating glancing blows.
[edit] Armor 2 is useful for skulks though, it makes it 4 bites vs 3.
We have the one side complaining that their character model is so big, that its too easy to hit.
And we have the other side complaining that skulks dont even have to aim to do damage, regardless of the fact that they still need to be in melee range.
I keep reading people saying that youre penalizing skill-caps by giving skulks a glancing bite so they have to aim less accurately. This is a load of bullcrap. Which one of you, as a Skulk, is telling yourself that you rather hit that Marine with a SG with glancing bites, as oppose to killing him asap with precise bites? That's right. None of you. Glancing bites is not some sort of "lazy" mechanic. Melee combat is frantic: you're jumping around, sometimes the marine is too. Sometimes you'll have a perfect bite lined up, and right when you click, the marine jumps and you wiff your 75 damage bite. OH WELL. Wish I couldve done some damage as oppose to none because the marine spam jumped at the right time.
This whole "it severely dictates the direction of the early game" argument is full of garbage too. Marines are constantly ahead of Aliens in RT's in the early game with equal skilled teams. If you're blaming glancing bites as the reason why you're losing against skulks in the early game, you need to get better.
It was introduced a week or two before release, and games worked pretty well before its introduction. It was just the "full hit" cone before, either hit or miss.
Since skulks are in the "marine's world" when they're closing the gap, why don't we introduce "glancing bullet hits" for when you don't quite hit the skulks but you shoot close enough for 5 and 2 damage each?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2034704:date=Nov 25 2012, 08:59 PM:name=Jarl Ballin')--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jarl Ballin' @ Nov 25 2012, 08:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2034704"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Against. If Skulks are forced to have glancing bites than marines should have to have glancing bullet wounds. Either way it's stupid. Just do away with it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There already is glancing bullets. Hit with part of an AR clip. Hit with some of the Shotgun pellets. Hit with only a short time of Minigun fire. Hit only a short time of Flamethrower fire. With lower skilled play you can partially miss with guns by only hitting part of a spray.
I didn't realize glancing blows where a thing until this thread but it seems to be an equivalent mechanic to me. If it's problematic it should be adjusted not removed.
Before glancing bites were introduced and the bite cone reduced significantly, it was met with both praise and scorn. It was nice because before skulk biting was pretty much on 'easy mode' and the new cone didn't allow for skulks to spam jump around biting willy nilly and actually had to focus on the target.
However, it was bad because it was INCREDIBLY inconsistent in registering bites that should have landed (i.e. ones that land dead centre). Too often I would be waiting for a marine in a hiding place, then sneak up behind him and bite right in the middle and its still misses. The marine would then just shoot me down when I should have for all intents and purposes, killed him, as I certainly had the drop on him and closed the distance, and my meelee aim was arguably precise enough to get the hits in (but don't).
Glancing bites were a welcome change at the time (after the nightmare build before) because it didn't reward 'easy' bites too much by applying full damage, and still allowed you to do at least some damage if the game gets it wrong. It was a nice compromise between the developers not wanting a marine to die to a skulk biting him on the corner of the foot, and the people who thought the reduced bite cone was poorly implemented and registration was inconsistent.
I wouldn't mind them getting rid of the glancing bites and reducing the bite cone to up the skill level involved in skulking. HOWEVER, not if it is broken like it was before. It was far too frustrating to play because it just feels like you're constantly getting robbed of kills when bites that should land don't. I certainly wouldn't be playing today if it were still this way, and I'm sure many other people would have lost interest too.
So, reduce the cone if you can do it right this time. If you want to make it more difficult to bite, than do so, but take a LOT more time making sure everything registers correctly when it should. And remember, a reduced bite cone would be nice, but bite is a melee weapon, not some high precision sniper rifle. Don't overdo it.
I didn't realize glancing blows where a thing until this thread but it seems to be an equivalent mechanic to me. If it's problematic it should be adjusted not removed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow. This is amazingly disingenuous. By your logic, regular bites are already glancing bites too because you might not land all your bites.
Helps out noobs. God knows they need the help in a game that has such a high learning curve.
Its just less frustrating when you have a greater chance to hit, even if for less damage, against a dancing marine who hops on your head.
The shotgun comparison is pretty direct. You fire your shotgun, but get lower than the max damage based on your aim/distance. Just like skulks.
I SHOULD BE ABLE TO KILL A SKULK WHILE IM JUMPING AROUND HIM RELOADING. GLANCING BITES ARE RUINING THIS GAME.
/sarcasmoff
It's a bit frustrating in it's current state.
I find an attack, which should've missed completely, doing 50 damage instead of 75 pretty successful xD .
But anyway, I agree better visual feedback like different color numbers would be good for "glancing" bites.
Have you considered the addition of a tool-tip on the loading screen. You know....that place where they tell you all kinds of other game information not clear to newbies.