<!--quoteo(post=2031647:date=Nov 22 2012, 01:20 AM:name=Mr.Greedy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr.Greedy @ Nov 22 2012, 01:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2031647"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Decreasing the amount of heal for crags is just a bad decision and will not prevent cragspamming.
Increase the heal and make them non-stacking.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Preventing stacking enforces an effective res expenditure limit. That is to say that, if the game is clearly over, and aliens are amassing outside marine base, the commander can drop one AND PRECISELY ONE crag, regardless of whether he has 10 res or 200 res. This is bad strategic design, and prolongs turtling.
i played roughly 40 games on public server of the last build, aliens won 40 games and marines won 0. It wasnt a case of just good alien players overal the players werent particularly great. it was just that marines take to long to build up momentum and their slow pace makes it difficult to hold extractors, the aliens can keep pressure on early and never let up provided their team is semi compatant. Most of the time marines didnt even manage to get a second base up and running.
Dudes I don't get it, I went from 2.6Ghz to 3.6Ghz (Phenom II 710 x3 to Fx 4100 x4 ,plus the ability to oc, which I can't quite confoodle) and It just got easier, play the game, be in the right place at the right time doing the right things. It's not CS, dying doesn't really matter. Truly.
I am actually quite impressed with this build. Been watching my server nearly all day, and the games have, for the most part, just been epic, with both sides pushing back even when it looks like they might lose. I honestly don't think I've ever seen such balance since the game has released. Obviously its not perfect yet, but this was a good step forward. I watched a game that went nearly 2 hours earlier on docking, was just amazing how pitched that battle was.
<!--quoteo(post=2031778:date=Nov 21 2012, 06:06 PM:name=Avalon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Avalon @ Nov 21 2012, 06:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2031778"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe turn down some settings? I know the shadows are killer, as is the atmospheric effects.
I'm running an i5 @ 4.0 and a single 460 at 1920x1200, and I get 30-80 FPS with all settings maxed minus AA turned off. Unless you're running a higher resolution than me, I don't see what's slowing you down aside from settings.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Atmospherics rely on GPU, it barely gives an FPS hit. Rich infestation also doesn't affect anything.
I like the skulk movement way more now... less floaty and unatural. feels faster and more responsive so don't change it back just because people were used to it the other way.
The shade nerf makes 0 sense, you guys really need to start thinking through these changes before just throwing them into a patch to be honest. If anything this will just increase shade spam as people need more to cover the same area.
In addition: crag, shift and shade spam in general is almost always the result of the alien khammander sitting on res he can't spend elsewhere. That's how dull the alien commander's job is, it's research ability X and Y and moment X and Y and then proceed to spam crag/shift/whip/shade (whichever you have available) because there is no other tech to research at 1/2/3 hives.
They really need to rethink the design behind the hive tied tech path, multiple hive requirements for abilities and overall alien strategic gameplay in general, it could be made SO much more dynamic and fun with just a few simple tweaks. (One or more T2 abilities at 1 mature hive, one or more T3 at 2 mature hives, shade/crag/shift detached from hive choice and hive affecting the abilities on those structures instead, etc)
The area of effect of the shades needs to be increased again, all that is happening just now is people spamming the map more with them (making the servers work harder, and ppls fps drop) When an alien team is stuck on 2 bases the comm has nothing to spend res on anymore (no onos) execpt crags/shifts & Shades, sorry I don't see shades as a res sink :P (nor should they be)
Dev's please, "baby steps" your not balancing a beta anymore,,(not trying to sound cheeky :P I just don't want FPS drop as a feature in the change log lol)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have massive performance issues on i7-950 / GTX 560 / 12GB RAM / SSD as well. 120FPS in some areas, but once the game goes past six minutes it's like there is a magical FPS fairy that just steals FPS until exos and bilebomb comes out and it varies from 40-120 FPS.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's the 6 min onos shedding an ocean of tears, killing your framerates.
<b>CAUSE:</b> <!--quoteo(post=2032206:date=Nov 23 2012, 01:11 AM:name=Xarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xarius @ Nov 23 2012, 01:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2032206"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the alien khammander sitting on res he can't spend elsewhere.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--quoteo(post=2032209:date=Nov 23 2012, 01:18 AM:name=arnyboy87)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (arnyboy87 @ Nov 23 2012, 01:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2032209"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When an alien team is stuck on 2 bases the comm has nothing to spend res on anymore<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>EFFECT:</b> <!--quoteo(post=2032206:date=Nov 23 2012, 01:11 AM:name=Xarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xarius @ Nov 23 2012, 01:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2032206"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->this will just increase shade spam<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--quoteo(post=2032209:date=Nov 23 2012, 01:18 AM:name=arnyboy87)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (arnyboy87 @ Nov 23 2012, 01:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2032209"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->people spamming the map more with them<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nerfing crags and shades <b>will</b> have an effect when the alien commander is short on resources, which should generally be the case. If alien commanders in public games regularly find themselves with more resources than they can spend, then this is a separate issue that also needs to be addressed.
Resource costs are a powerful balancing tool, if someone regularly ends up with more resources than they can spend, then resource costs become irrelevant for them. That's a Very Bad Thing.
<!--quoteo(post=2031726:date=Nov 21 2012, 07:32 PM:name=extollo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (extollo @ Nov 21 2012, 07:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2031726"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->one other thing that was new in 230 was.. <!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1--> // prevent jumping against the same wall constantly as a method to ramp up speed<!--c2--></div><!--ec2--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
btw, not sure what the intent of this was, but the game logic still allows significant speed bumps doing wall to same wall jumps.
<!--quoteo(post=2031938:date=Nov 22 2012, 07:38 AM:name=deathshroud)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (deathshroud @ Nov 22 2012, 07:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2031938"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i played roughly 40 games on public server of the last build, aliens won 40 games and marines won 0. It wasnt a case of just good alien players overal the players werent particularly great. it was just that marines take to long to build up momentum and their slow pace makes it difficult to hold extractors, the aliens can keep pressure on early and never let up provided their team is semi compatant. Most of the time marines didnt even manage to get a second base up and running.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What is that "compatance" you are talking about? Is that when the comm pats everyone on the back? ^^
Seriously. I played 230 yesterday and when the marine team consisted of good players with voice, they won. The game felt much better than before. I'm positive UWE found the nice middle ground for regen and camouflage now.
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
<!--quoteo(post=2032285:date=Nov 22 2012, 12:40 PM:name=extollo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (extollo @ Nov 22 2012, 12:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2032285"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->btw, not sure what the intent of this was, but the game logic still allows significant speed bumps doing wall to same wall jumps.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
it prevents that you face the wall and constantly press jump, without actually moving. removing some of the code there would make it possible that you basically could build up your velocity at one place
you've said many times that you don't want the game to be player VS structure. So now you nerfed the crag/shade, hoping people won't build too many of those... but as many have said before me, people will either spam even more of those, or stop building ineffective expensive buildings altogether, which i'm sure isnt what you entended.
If Crag/Shade spam bothers you that much (sure bothers me!), why don't you limit them per room the way you limit Turrets to 3 per room...
I propose one Shade and three crags max per room. While you're at it, limit the Shifts to 1 as well. 3 Shifts in a room can plop 6 eggs, which can easily spawn all your dead aliens, even in 12v12 matches. And by the time the next spawn wave comes, you can have 12 eggs ready and waiting. so limiting the egg spawn isnt an answer...
Also, how does rushing the power node to win apply to your "Player VS Structure" problem? Not well, i hope... "Oh, we lost a single weak building (the power node). GG!" Don't you feel that's a problem? We didn't kill all the marines, we killed a single building and now their base is gone! hmmm...
It's just not fair to lose because of a power node. To all aliens who are about to tell me that the cyst mechanic balances out the power node mechanic, i say: You don't lose your whole BASE because you lost your cists. You may lose an extractor or two in about 2 minutes, but you're still in the game!
<!--quoteo(post=2031693:date=Nov 21 2012, 07:01 PM:name=ZeCruiser)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ZeCruiser @ Nov 21 2012, 07:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2031693"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ah yes, reducing the radius for the Shade. I was waiting quite some time for this. It would never sit right with me the way a single shade could cover an entire room, or two small rooms. The marines, however, need two observatories to cover just a single room, most of the time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Are we playing the same game? The obs has a radius of 22. The old shade was 20, now it's 14. It's always had a smaller radius, at least since release. If you build an obs by the RT in cafe, you cover the whole room. Build in the corner of terminal, and you can almost reach the RT in east wing. If it seems like it covered less, that's probably because comms typically place it in corners or along walls where it's more protected, and it can observe nearby hallways, since that's generally more important than the room (advance warning and all).
Just come out of games for the first time with this new build. My FPS has dropped from absolutely fine on high/medium to really, really bad. I'm sorry I don't have numbers, can do this some time (but I didn't have numbers for the previous builds, I think it was about 80 out of combat, dropping to 30 at worst if I remember correctly). This build, even in the ready room I'm getting really choppy performance. I'm not even going to bother stating hardware, because it was absolutely FINE in the previous patches, and it occurred on all servers I played on at all stages of the game (and fresh in ready room). I lowered the settings to make it playable, but that shouldn't be required!
If I can do anything to be more specific to pinpoint this problem, please just ask (pm) and I will try my best to help you diagnose what's going wrong. I doubt it's just me who's found this.
PS no other system changes or software/driver changes, the only thing that has updated is NS2 since it was absolutely fine. I have the latest gfx drivers.
Cheers for the awesome game, hope I can help in some way to correct this quite drastic performance drop!!
Please fix skulks walljump it sucks now, i lose all speed when i jump from a wall to the floor, before it was fun to play as skulks because you got high speed but now it dont work anymore. Its like remove skiing in Tribes. My fps drops to 30-40 after the last patch, when it was build 229 i have about 70-80 fps and 50-60 when it was much peoples.
Having a lot of new players on a marine team is a lot more crippling than it is for an alien team.
It feels like a little bit of a reciprocal relationship between the two teams. Aliens have a team that relies heavily on their commander, whereas marines have a commander that relies heavily on their team.
I think that overall this has more severe negative effect on marines... at least until the majority of the player base learns how to play.
<!--quoteo(post=2032407:date=Nov 22 2012, 02:43 PM:name=Sewlek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sewlek @ Nov 22 2012, 02:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2032407"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->it prevents that you face the wall and constantly press jump, without actually moving. removing some of the code there would make it possible that you basically could build up your velocity at one place<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
thanks swelek. ah.. so basically checking your not facing directly at or near to the surface normal. i'm less confused now. ha.. i never would have thought to try to gain speed by facing directly at a wall and jumping.
<!--quoteo(post=2031749:date=Nov 22 2012, 12:18 PM:name=sdelcos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sdelcos @ Nov 22 2012, 12:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2031749"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I find it a bit odd that despite all of the nerfs and the removal of the w hive tres onos that aliens generally dominate the game (hello 60%+ winrate) when it was pretty even before that (if a bit dull). I'm not a big fan of the all the alien structure nerfs, especially the crags. Why not instead of making them ###### ass weak have the structures lose their passive abilities when on fire like someone else suggested in the forums? I mean, marines have an equivalent to crag span and that is MAC spam which is easily countered by bile bomb(Stuns MACs, greatly damages them), why not have something similar?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
aaaaaaaactulally.
It was a 60% win rate BEFORE the 3hive tres onos... They're tweaking Aliens as at the start it was balanced, and now winning is slanted towards aliens more.
<!--quoteo(post=2032433:date=Nov 23 2012, 07:05 AM:name=ekscom)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ekscom @ Nov 23 2012, 07:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2032433"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->3 Shifts in a room can plop 6 eggs, which can easily spawn all your dead aliens, even in 12v12 matches. And by the time the next spawn wave comes, you can have 12 eggs ready and waiting. so limiting the egg spawn isnt an answer...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I haven't checked but isn't that a global cooldown on the eggs?
<!--quoteo(post=2032548:date=Nov 23 2012, 10:03 AM:name=Thunde)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thunde @ Nov 23 2012, 10:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2032548"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Please fix skulks walljump it sucks now, i lose all speed when i jump from a wall to the floor, before it was fun to play as skulks because you got high speed but now it dont work anymore. Its like remove skiing in Tribes. My fps drops to 30-40 after the last patch, when it was build 229 i have about 70-80 fps and 50-60 when it was much peoples.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you land on a flat floor, you loose the speed if you don't jump and hit a wall.
If you land on an angled surface (think entering Cavern) you keep your speed I've noticed.
Hey UWE so still having trouble withe the red plug of doom icon and lag on servers. The game as of right now is unplayable and is frustratingly so when I can play games such as Tribes; Ascend and other higher demand games on high settings but can't play a decent game on my favorite game for even ten minutes. Please UWE optimize the game for the lower end systems a little more and good luck with the balance
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There seems to be a lot of Shade and Crag spam in hive rooms in pubs, making it quite hard for marines to kill hives.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Alien turtleing was a problem? What games are the devs watching?
Comments
combat frame 2~30 :(((((
Increase the heal and make them non-stacking.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Preventing stacking enforces an effective res expenditure limit. That is to say that, if the game is clearly over, and aliens are amassing outside marine base, the commander can drop one AND PRECISELY ONE crag, regardless of whether he has 10 res or 200 res. This is bad strategic design, and prolongs turtling.
Some of us are having very serious performance issues with higher end gear than yours performing very poorly.
I'm running an i5 @ 4.0 and a single 460 at 1920x1200, and I get 30-80 FPS with all settings maxed minus AA turned off. Unless you're running a higher resolution than me, I don't see what's slowing you down aside from settings.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Atmospherics rely on GPU, it barely gives an FPS hit. Rich infestation also doesn't affect anything.
Bloom, shadows, AO, and AA are the killers.
CPU: i5-2500k @ 4.5HGz
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D14
Mobo: MSI P67A-GD65 B3
RAM: 16GB G-Skill X Series 1600MHz
HDD: 90GB OCZ Vertex II SSD
HDD2: 2x 150GB (300GB total) WD Raptor 10k RPM Raid 0
Video: eVGA GTX670 4GB w/Backplate SuperClocked Edition
OS: Windows 7 Professional 64bit
PSU: Corsair HX750 Professional Series
Current Mode: 1176 x 664 (32 bit) (60Hz)
Native Mode: 1280 x 720(p) (60.000Hz)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's the reason
In addition: crag, shift and shade spam in general is almost always the result of the alien khammander sitting on res he can't spend elsewhere. That's how dull the alien commander's job is, it's research ability X and Y and moment X and Y and then proceed to spam crag/shift/whip/shade (whichever you have available) because there is no other tech to research at 1/2/3 hives.
They really need to rethink the design behind the hive tied tech path, multiple hive requirements for abilities and overall alien strategic gameplay in general, it could be made SO much more dynamic and fun with just a few simple tweaks. (One or more T2 abilities at 1 mature hive, one or more T3 at 2 mature hives, shade/crag/shift detached from hive choice and hive affecting the abilities on those structures instead, etc)
Dev's please, "baby steps" your not balancing a beta anymore,,(not trying to sound cheeky :P I just don't want FPS drop as a feature in the change log lol)
It's the 6 min onos shedding an ocean of tears, killing your framerates.
<!--quoteo(post=2032206:date=Nov 23 2012, 01:11 AM:name=Xarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xarius @ Nov 23 2012, 01:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2032206"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the alien khammander sitting on res he can't spend elsewhere.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--quoteo(post=2032209:date=Nov 23 2012, 01:18 AM:name=arnyboy87)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (arnyboy87 @ Nov 23 2012, 01:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2032209"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When an alien team is stuck on 2 bases the comm has nothing to spend res on anymore<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>EFFECT:</b>
<!--quoteo(post=2032206:date=Nov 23 2012, 01:11 AM:name=Xarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xarius @ Nov 23 2012, 01:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2032206"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->this will just increase shade spam<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--quoteo(post=2032209:date=Nov 23 2012, 01:18 AM:name=arnyboy87)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (arnyboy87 @ Nov 23 2012, 01:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2032209"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->people spamming the map more with them<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nerfing crags and shades <b>will</b> have an effect when the alien commander is short on resources, which should generally be the case. If alien commanders in public games regularly find themselves with more resources than they can spend, then this is a separate issue that also needs to be addressed.
Resource costs are a powerful balancing tool, if someone regularly ends up with more resources than they can spend, then resource costs become irrelevant for them. That's a Very Bad Thing.
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1--> // prevent jumping against the same wall constantly as a method to ramp up speed<!--c2--></div><!--ec2--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
btw, not sure what the intent of this was, but the game logic still allows significant speed bumps doing wall to same wall jumps.
What is that "compatance" you are talking about?
Is that when the comm pats everyone on the back? ^^
Seriously. I played 230 yesterday and when the marine team consisted of good players with voice, they won.
The game felt much better than before. I'm positive UWE found the nice middle ground for regen and camouflage now.
Excuse me, I gotta play 232 now.
it prevents that you face the wall and constantly press jump, without actually moving. removing some of the code there would make it possible that you basically could build up your velocity at one place
you've said many times that you don't want the game to be player VS structure. So now you nerfed the crag/shade, hoping people won't build too many of those... but as many have said before me, people will either spam even more of those, or stop building ineffective expensive buildings altogether, which i'm sure isnt what you entended.
If Crag/Shade spam bothers you that much (sure bothers me!), why don't you limit them per room the way you limit Turrets to 3 per room...
I propose one Shade and three crags max per room. While you're at it, limit the Shifts to 1 as well.
3 Shifts in a room can plop 6 eggs, which can easily spawn all your dead aliens, even in 12v12 matches. And by the time the next spawn wave comes, you can have 12 eggs ready and waiting. so limiting the egg spawn isnt an answer...
Also, how does rushing the power node to win apply to your "Player VS Structure" problem? Not well, i hope...
"Oh, we lost a single weak building (the power node). GG!" Don't you feel that's a problem? We didn't kill all the marines, we killed a single building and now their base is gone! hmmm...
It's just not fair to lose because of a power node.
To all aliens who are about to tell me that the cyst mechanic balances out the power node mechanic, i say: You don't lose your whole BASE because you lost your cists. You may lose an extractor or two in about 2 minutes, but you're still in the game!
Are we playing the same game? The obs has a radius of 22. The old shade was 20, now it's 14. It's always had a smaller radius, at least since release. If you build an obs by the RT in cafe, you cover the whole room. Build in the corner of terminal, and you can almost reach the RT in east wing. If it seems like it covered less, that's probably because comms typically place it in corners or along walls where it's more protected, and it can observe nearby hallways, since that's generally more important than the room (advance warning and all).
If I can do anything to be more specific to pinpoint this problem, please just ask (pm) and I will try my best to help you diagnose what's going wrong. I doubt it's just me who's found this.
PS no other system changes or software/driver changes, the only thing that has updated is NS2 since it was absolutely fine. I have the latest gfx drivers.
Cheers for the awesome game, hope I can help in some way to correct this quite drastic performance drop!!
Roo
It feels like a little bit of a reciprocal relationship between the two teams. Aliens have a team that relies heavily on their commander, whereas marines have a commander that relies heavily on their team.
I think that overall this has more severe negative effect on marines... at least until the majority of the player base learns how to play.
thanks swelek. ah.. so basically checking your not facing directly at or near to the surface normal. i'm less confused now. ha.. i never would have thought to try to gain speed by facing directly at a wall and jumping.
aaaaaaaactulally.
It was a 60% win rate BEFORE the 3hive tres onos...
They're tweaking Aliens as at the start it was balanced, and now winning is slanted towards aliens more.
<!--quoteo(post=2032433:date=Nov 23 2012, 07:05 AM:name=ekscom)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ekscom @ Nov 23 2012, 07:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2032433"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->3 Shifts in a room can plop 6 eggs, which can easily spawn all your dead aliens, even in 12v12 matches. And by the time the next spawn wave comes, you can have 12 eggs ready and waiting. so limiting the egg spawn isnt an answer...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I haven't checked but isn't that a global cooldown on the eggs?
If you land on a flat floor, you loose the speed if you don't jump and hit a wall.
If you land on an angled surface (think entering Cavern) you keep your speed I've noticed.
Alien turtleing was a problem? What games are the devs watching?