So, why are Fades so broken?
addest3
Join Date: 2009-10-20 Member: 69094Members
Join Date: 2009-10-20 Member: 69094Members
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They have to balance it perfectly.
Currently it just needs some health/armor imo, 4 hits to kill a lvl 3 armor marine isn't a huge deal, it's 2-3 earlier in the game when they're most useful.
Idea is attack run away etc, with our without a kill, problem is you can die so fast it's ridiculous, to some dude with an lmg.
I and many other people in pubs go 30-0 with a fade regularly, can you see how this could potentially be difficult to balance because varying skill levels (the fade's and the people shooting it) vastly effect the fade more than any other unit.
They have to balance it perfectly.
Currently it just needs some health/armor imo, 4 hits to kill a lvl 3 armor marine isn't a huge deal, it's 2-3 earlier in the game when they're most useful.
Idea is attack run away etc, with our without a kill, problem is you can die so fast it's ridiculous, to some dude with an lmg.
I and many other people in pubs go 30-0 with a fade regularly, can you see how this could potentially be difficult to balance because varying skill levels (the fade's and the people shooting it) vastly effect the fade more than any other unit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I appreciate your response and I understand in a game like this you can't just say 1+1=2.
I think the fades need a nerf on later armor and damage. Say 5 hits late game on a marine.
Currently, a tier 3 armor marine vs a late game fade it takes 3 swipes or 2 to head two to body.
Its attack speed is much too high for the damage it does, while the shotgun, the "anti fade", can only shoot one shell every second and a half or so.
IMO, Fade REALLY needs a late game energy and armor/health rework. Literally every game I have played the fade absolutely destroys.
I think the fades need a nerf on later armor and damage. Say 5 hits late game on a marine.
Currently, a tier 3 armor marine vs a late game fade it takes 3 swipes or 2 to head two to body.
Its attack speed is much too high for the damage it does, while the shotgun, the "anti fade", can only shoot one shell every second and a half or so.
IMO, Fade REALLY needs a late game energy and armor/health rework. Literally every game I have played the fade absolutely destroys.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fade is 50 res, it should have the upper hand lol. Marines can't play rambo or even now they get crushed by fades, fades still are slightly too weak for 50 res orz.
So why not reduce the res cost and increase stealth/movement capabilities while reducing health and armor?
If a player plays Fade well, they absolutely dominate, if a noob plays Fade, they absolutely dominate.
Fade needs to be skill based not LEL I GOT MUH FITTY REZ XD.
In short, Fade needs a skill cap increase and a armor/damage decrease, at least for late game.
I think the fades need a nerf on later armor and damage. Say 5 hits late game on a marine.
Currently, a tier 3 armor marine vs a late game fade it takes 3 swipes or 2 to head two to body.
Its attack speed is much too high for the damage it does, while the shotgun, the "anti fade", can only shoot one shell every second and a half or so.
IMO, Fade REALLY needs a late game energy and armor/health rework. Literally every game I have played the fade absolutely destroys.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This post gave me brain damage.
Clearly you don't have much brain capacity then.
Why should a marine that spends 20 res on a shotgun equal a 50 res Fade exactly?
If a player plays Fade well, they absolutely dominate, if a noob plays Fade, they absolutely dominate.
Fade needs to be skill based not LEL I GOT MUH FITTY REZ XD.
In short, Fade needs a skill cap increase and a armor/damage decrease, at least for late game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
noobs don't... wait it isn't even worth it
If you ask me the best way the Fade should work is the opposite of what we have currently. Give it health lower then a skulk or maybe to a skulk, up its damage so that it kills in 1 hit if it hits a Marine from behind and lower its cost by 20. This would make it a more accessible unit but at the same time a more balanced unit.
Anybody who's clocked in a lot of hours on this game know they need buffing. Frankly, the issue is so clear to anybody with a decent amount of ns2 experience, that it's hardly worth the time discussing in detail the ins and outs of what's wrong with Fade at the moment. They can still be effective in the right hands (only sometimes), but they badly need buffing.
correct title: i cant get a buddy to three shotgun the fade
Anybody who's clocked in a lot of hours on this game know they need buffing. Frankly, the issue is so clear to anybody with a decent amount of ns2 experience, that it's hardly worth the time discussing in detail the ins and outs of what's wrong with Fade at the moment. They can still be effective in the right hands (only sometimes), but they badly need buffing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A single fade can tie up several Marine players at the moment. That means Aliens can hit them elsewhere in greater numbers. It is still very easy for a Fade to go in against two Marines kill one even with them shooting at it and make it out of there will 50% health no problem. Fades are fine.
If you want to, you can show me how you destroy me as a fade, when I have armor3 with a sg (armor1 even).
If you want to, you can show me how you destroy me as a fade, when I have armor3 with a sg (armor1 even).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This issue your having seems to come down more to the op nature of the shotgun in this game rather the weakness of the fade. The shotgun at present is too good in almost every situation and needs to be fixed. I totally agree.
In terms of resource investment, a marine with shotgun/jetpack is significantly cheaper than a Fade, and is quite capable of beating the Fade solo.
In terms of resource investment, a marine with shotgun/jetpack is significantly cheaper than a Fade, and is quite capable of beating the Fade solo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed for 10 res jet-packs are without doubt the most effective upgrade of any unit in the game for their price.
Fade is supposed to make a solo marine a dead marine. He always wins. Groups of marines kill him before he can do anything. In his current state he even sometimes struggles against 1 marine.
Yeah, whenever I play Comm I don't even research Exo's unless I literally have a billion resource and I just tell people to get Jetpacks.
I think they could honestly stand to get a cost increase, considering how amazingly effective they are.
Right now fade just doesn't have a very clear use. Every time this topic comes up, people say, "Well DUH, you can't engage more than one person at a time with it!" Well great, so how is this lifeform useful then? How often do marines worth killing wander around alone? For that matter, how does this make you more effective than a skulk, which also excels at ambushing and winning 1vs1 fights? You do only 6 more damage (ten less to structures), and while you are faster, you can't wall climb or move silently without Silence. For a 50 pres investment, you don't get much. Sure, you can rack up kills as fade, and you'll hear people going "Oh man I go 30-0 as fade all the time." Great job! I can get 10 or 20 kill streaks as a skulk too, and that's free! Playing against inexperienced/bad players doesn't make the lifeform useful.
With onos drop being put off until 3rd (very late game, often lucky to get one if playing vs not terribad marines) aliens need a midgame power, it always used to be aliens used leap and cara/cele to hang on until fades came out then 2 fades to hang on until a pres onos was down then do a bile/onos push. Game was more fun back then, screw the win loss ratio it was more fun
<!--quoteo(post=2032020:date=Nov 22 2012, 09:30 AM:name=minos_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (minos_ @ Nov 22 2012, 09:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2032020"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just.. some of these posts. I feel like fade needs a (slight) buff, but a lot of the people arguing for a nerf just have the numbers wrong. a3 marines take four full hits to kill, and there are no headshots. Shotgun should win that fight about half the time, even alone.
Right now fade just doesn't have a very clear use. Every time this topic comes up, people say, "Well DUH, you can't engage more than one person at a time with it!" Well great, so how is this lifeform useful then? How often do marines worth killing wander around alone? For that matter, how does this make you more effective than a skulk, which also excels at ambushing and winning 1vs1 fights? You do only 6 more damage (ten less to structures), and while you are faster, you can't wall climb or move silently without Silence. For a 50 pres investment, you don't get much. Sure, you can rack up kills as fade, and you'll hear people going "Oh man I go 30-0 as fade all the time." Great job! I can get 10 or 20 kill streaks as a skulk too, and that's free! Playing against inexperienced/bad players doesn't make the lifeform useful.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fades are substantially faster (jump+shadow step combo) and have, in theory, more ability to deal with jetpacks (blink). In practice? When I play fade 90% of the players I kill are the new guys who havent gotten the hang of where to be and where not to be, very rarely do I do anything useful (killing new players is really not that useful) as a fade. Vs jetpacks because blink is so energy raping and adrenalin so bad you're more just an annoyance than a real threat.
Its also worth remembering just how powerful late game marines are, look at how many shots it takes to kill a skulk/lerk/gorge with W3 LMG
Both Blink and Vortex should be hive 2 abilities. (or Blink hive 1 and Vortex hive 2)
I prefer a specific bind just for fades (swipe/blink on left/right mouse) but I wouldnt do this setup for say onos or marines. Perhaps if I learnt how to script LUA I could make a "rebinder" for classes.
Its also worth remembering just how powerful late game marines are, look at how many shots it takes to kill a skulk/lerk/gorge with W3 LMG<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is exactly what I mean though. I know you're replying to me about fade being in fact more manouverable than a skulk, and while I do agree, I don't think it's nearly fast enough to make up for being able to hear it coming from so far away vs skulk's ability to ambush. My experience getting kills as fade is largely the same as yours. Sure I get kills, but rarely on anyone good, or doing anything relevant.
I also agree that adren isn't really helpful. If you're moving efficiently, the default amount of energy is generally enough to let you get in, do what you need, and get out. Having more doesn't really help all that much. You can stay in combat for a little while longer, but it takes so long to recharge that you spend more time out of combat. Only time I ever take adren is when I am going to gorge and bile power down. What it really needs is a recharge rate boost.
I also agree that adren isn't really helpful. If you're moving efficiently, the default amount of energy is generally enough to let you get in, do what you need, and get out. Having more doesn't really help all that much. You can stay in combat for a little while longer, but it takes so long to recharge that you spend more time out of combat. Only time I ever take adren is when I am going to gorge and bile power down. What it really needs is a recharge rate boost.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would agree, another major problem is that as a fade you naturally will shadow step to behind a marine to hit him. Because of the glancing blow system doing this can make it take 6 hits to kill a single marine, its punishing you for trying to play fade properly (not sitting infront of someone tanking their gun). I would say that later on (A3W3 area, around 15 mins in) the fade overtakes the skulk as an ambusher, 5 bites to kill vs 5 bullets is just too easy for the marine to win, even on his own.
Feint death is also very useful for a fade, with it disabled its quite annoying. You could very often escape situations by simply blink shadow blinking away after a resurrection.
I honestly find myself being most useful as a fade whilst commanding because you can hop out, very quickly go over to a marine ramboing an RT/upgrades/cyst chains and hop back if you need to. Given you shouldnt ever sit in the comm chair being able to hop around and atleast annoy rambo marines is useful, thats just broken. Fade should be a front line scary ass life form, not a useful thing for khamms
I hope for this so much, I hate the entire glancing blow mechanic and wish it didn't exist.