Just throw in my 2 cents. Huge NS1 fan and been playing the beta ns2 on and off 2 years. Biggest hit is the kharaa need for commander. All these years, I've still yet to play commander. Im not a fan of marines, so everything Alien i loved. This is a huge ungh. If I wanted to go lerk and get specific upgrades, I could. I could kill marines and get rewarded for it so I could evolve more often. Now its we all wait x minutes till we can fade. then hope the khammander gets adren and blink. Lerk is lackluster. I missed 40/0 umbra bite fests. Now bite is slow and weak. 30 res, I might as well wait a few mins for a fade. And I disliked fade in NS1 mostly. Ha, when we used to blink into walls and needed clear line of sight to destination. Now its a fancy flying Lerk.
<!--quoteo(post=2019814:date=Nov 11 2012, 09:04 AM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Swiftspear @ Nov 11 2012, 09:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2019814"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They're all just the newest incarnation of Forlorn to me. Having posts on a forums or hours sunk into the game never makes that game actually belong to you. I've had as much if not more disappointments in terms of suggestions being ignored, ideological battles being fought and lost, changes being made I didn't like, and general forum garbage pretty much.
In the end of the day, it's Flayra and the NS team actually sitting down to code the changes. The development of the game belongs to them, or any modder who chooses to just ignore the BS and do it themselves. Most of the suggestion posts here are very reactive, and they suggest changes that basically either "forget the new stuff and regress to NS1 again" or "Here's a completely inelegant solution that breaks 5 things I don't care about to fix the one thing that's annoying me right now". This is extremely obvious in pysmples posts for example... Temphage is more along the line of defending a destructive ideology ("###### competitive players, they ruin the game rofl")... I made versions of both these same mistakes myself in the past.
Flayra is the one who's right here. Good design takes a HUGE amount of time and effort. There's a hundred vaugly viable solutions to any given problem, and any one of them has certain significant upsides and certain significant downsides. Hughe was talking about exactly this thing in one of the Q&A's and he's COMPLETELY and TOTALLY right. NS2 would be ###### in a month if they tried to develop it entirely reactively. They need to react to problems, but slowly, deliberately, and in a well thought out way is ideal.
I don't trust Flayra to not make mistakes, I don't trust him to never do stupid things, I don't trust him to listen to all my crappy ideas. I trust him to be smart, to consider options, and I trust the community to filter out crap well enough that the really good stuff eventually gets to the power that be.
Anyone who chooses to be entitled, anyone who chooses to be bitter... Well, they've already lost. In the end of the day, if you're not having fun with NS2, you're not having fun here, you're doing the wrong thing. This is gaming, we're not talking about feeding starving orphans here. Go somewhere you find more rewarding.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The sooner people realize this the better. A lot of people reply to me like I give a rats butt about what their suggestions are in a post. That's not the point.
I just have an issue over how every single suggestion is delivered ad nauseam + oh by the way, your game will die a horrible death if you don't listen to this correct opinion. The fact that you call anyone a fanboy because they don't appreciate your weird passive aggressive tone is just mind boggling.
Who's really being weirdly passive aggressive, the people who post suggestions or the people who supposedly don't care about suggestions but must clog up threads arguing against them simply because they don't like the tone of their posts?
<!--quoteo(post=2020010:date=Nov 11 2012, 12:37 PM:name=skat0r)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (skat0r @ Nov 11 2012, 12:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2020010"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->People still crying over a 25$?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This game has at one point also cost $40, and $30. Not that either of those are incredibly large sums of money... but I would reckon that most people on the forums spent more than $25 on this game.
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=fappupcino)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fappupcino)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just have an issue over how every single suggestion is delivered ad nauseam + oh by the way, your game will die a horrible death if you don't listen to this correct opinion.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe they're suggested ad nauseum because a nauseating amount of people see the glaring issues in this game and want to voice their opinions? The game WILL die if some of these issues aren't fixed. 6 minute Onos is one of those things that will straight up make people stop playing. It's not game-breaking, but it's brain-damaging. It's dull, it's boring, and people don't want to deal with that ######.
No one is "crying" here, except you. We have issues with the game that we spent money on. We have issues with the fact that we were promised a product YEARS ago, and it still has yet to really get completed. These are valid issues that are shared by a fairly large number of peope... and your issue is with the fact that we're using the general discussion forums to discuss the issues we have with the product we were sold?
Eh, the minority of people complain. You don't see a lot of posts praising the game because those people don't typically post about it on the forums. It is usually a place where pissed off people go to voice their opinions.
Asking for your money back is childish. You bought a game and didn't like it. Welcome to buying things. Buying something is always a risk.
<!--quoteo(post=2020181:date=Nov 11 2012, 03:28 PM:name=Radiocage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Radiocage @ Nov 11 2012, 03:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2020181"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Eh, the minority of people complain. You don't see a lot of posts praising the game because those people don't typically post about it on the forums. It is usually a place where pissed off people go to voice their opinions.
Asking for your money back is childish. You bought a game and didn't like it. Welcome to buying things. Buying something is always a risk.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Usually if a product doesn't work as advertised or is unfit for purpose then you're entitled to a refund or compensation.
<!--quoteo(post=2020186:date=Nov 11 2012, 07:34 PM:name=Goden)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Goden @ Nov 11 2012, 07:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2020186"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Usually if a product doesn't work as advertised or is unfit for purpose then you're entitled to a refund or compensation.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> bye
In fact game design and balancing is fine even though that is definitely a hard task in this fps-rts-combination-genre. Great job here on visuals and extensive playtesting, internal calculations and listening to feedback to the community.
But still I have to agree. This is a disappointment. It is developed like a mod by hobbyists. Big changelogs with minor adjustments on the gameplay all the time. You can't impress me with that. If you work on a complex game with few part-time hobbyists this log will grow fast easily, too. Continuous fine-tuning of the maps and visuals. It is fun to work on that. Porting engines to another platform and doing endless performance optimizations is hard work. Fixing crash bugs and hunting problems can be annoying. Well, but this time, I paid for this. The modding tools crashed for me, I posted performance profiles and sadly the breakpad crash reporter is too unstable to send my client crashes. No one responded. There is no public bug tracker like https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-for-linux speaking of it: where is the promised Linux client. Not even a Linux dedicated server. Is this a joke?
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
The possibility of a Linux client has been requested, but there was no 'promised Linux client'.
Performance continues to improve. Bugs continue to be stomped. There is a public bug tracker, just not on Github.
Quite happy with my purchase... and I'm fairly certain that I paid significantly more, as one of the early-alpha backers.
This is one of the best team play based games I have ever played and it doesn't get stale like other games because of the asymmetrical design. My performance is just fine and there are very little bugs to boot.
Thank you ever so much for dragging a shitty and poorly thought out thread back from the depths of november to add...not much. It's only marginally related to the OP, did you read all 8 pages before you resurrected this monster?
The possibility of a Linux client has been requested, but there was no 'promised Linux client'.
http://unknownworlds.com/ns2/spark-engine-questions-and-answers-1-2/ says Dedicated Linux server support will be in the initial release. That is simply a blatant lie now. Also the paragraphs states that the port is fairly easy and it is only Steamworks fault being only available to the Windows world. Well this is definitely not the case anymore since many months of Steam for Linux and Valves plans to make a Linux gaming console.
Comments
Biggest hit is the kharaa need for commander.
All these years, I've still yet to play commander. Im not a fan of marines, so everything Alien i loved.
This is a huge ungh. If I wanted to go lerk and get specific upgrades, I could. I could kill marines and get rewarded for it so I could evolve more often.
Now its we all wait x minutes till we can fade. then hope the khammander gets adren and blink.
Lerk is lackluster. I missed 40/0 umbra bite fests. Now bite is slow and weak. 30 res, I might as well wait a few mins for a fade.
And I disliked fade in NS1 mostly.
Ha, when we used to blink into walls and needed clear line of sight to destination. Now its a fancy flying Lerk.
In the end of the day, it's Flayra and the NS team actually sitting down to code the changes. The development of the game belongs to them, or any modder who chooses to just ignore the BS and do it themselves. Most of the suggestion posts here are very reactive, and they suggest changes that basically either "forget the new stuff and regress to NS1 again" or "Here's a completely inelegant solution that breaks 5 things I don't care about to fix the one thing that's annoying me right now". This is extremely obvious in pysmples posts for example... Temphage is more along the line of defending a destructive ideology ("###### competitive players, they ruin the game rofl")... I made versions of both these same mistakes myself in the past.
Flayra is the one who's right here. Good design takes a HUGE amount of time and effort. There's a hundred vaugly viable solutions to any given problem, and any one of them has certain significant upsides and certain significant downsides. Hughe was talking about exactly this thing in one of the Q&A's and he's COMPLETELY and TOTALLY right. NS2 would be ###### in a month if they tried to develop it entirely reactively. They need to react to problems, but slowly, deliberately, and in a well thought out way is ideal.
I don't trust Flayra to not make mistakes, I don't trust him to never do stupid things, I don't trust him to listen to all my crappy ideas. I trust him to be smart, to consider options, and I trust the community to filter out crap well enough that the really good stuff eventually gets to the power that be.
Anyone who chooses to be entitled, anyone who chooses to be bitter... Well, they've already lost. In the end of the day, if you're not having fun with NS2, you're not having fun here, you're doing the wrong thing. This is gaming, we're not talking about feeding starving orphans here. Go somewhere you find more rewarding.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The sooner people realize this the better. A lot of people reply to me like I give a rats butt about what their suggestions are in a post. That's not the point.
I just have an issue over how every single suggestion is delivered ad nauseam + oh by the way, your game will die a horrible death if you don't listen to this correct opinion.
The fact that you call anyone a fanboy because they don't appreciate your weird passive aggressive tone is just mind boggling.
This game has at one point also cost $40, and $30. Not that either of those are incredibly large sums of money... but I would reckon that most people on the forums spent more than $25 on this game.
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=fappupcino)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fappupcino)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just have an issue over how every single suggestion is delivered ad nauseam + oh by the way, your game will die a horrible death if you don't listen to this correct opinion.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe they're suggested ad nauseum because a nauseating amount of people see the glaring issues in this game and want to voice their opinions? The game WILL die if some of these issues aren't fixed. 6 minute Onos is one of those things that will straight up make people stop playing. It's not game-breaking, but it's brain-damaging. It's dull, it's boring, and people don't want to deal with that ######.
No one is "crying" here, except you. We have issues with the game that we spent money on. We have issues with the fact that we were promised a product YEARS ago, and it still has yet to really get completed. These are valid issues that are shared by a fairly large number of peope... and your issue is with the fact that we're using the general discussion forums to discuss the issues we have with the product we were sold?
Sadly it doesn't work that way and I'm stuck with this turkey in my Steam Library. Oh well. Not every game is a winner I guess. Just have to move on.
Asking for your money back is childish. You bought a game and didn't like it. Welcome to buying things. Buying something is always a risk.
Asking for your money back is childish. You bought a game and didn't like it. Welcome to buying things. Buying something is always a risk.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Usually if a product doesn't work as advertised or is unfit for purpose then you're entitled to a refund or compensation.
bye
But still I have to agree. This is a disappointment. It is developed like a mod by hobbyists. Big changelogs with minor adjustments on the gameplay all the time. You can't impress me with that. If you work on a complex game with few part-time hobbyists this log will grow fast easily, too. Continuous fine-tuning of the maps and visuals. It is fun to work on that. Porting engines to another platform and doing endless performance optimizations is hard work. Fixing crash bugs and hunting problems can be annoying. Well, but this time, I paid for this. The modding tools crashed for me, I posted performance profiles and sadly the breakpad crash reporter is too unstable to send my client crashes. No one responded. There is no public bug tracker like https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-for-linux speaking of it: where is the promised Linux client. Not even a Linux dedicated server. Is this a joke?
Performance continues to improve. Bugs continue to be stomped. There is a public bug tracker, just not on Github.
Quite happy with my purchase... and I'm fairly certain that I paid significantly more, as one of the early-alpha backers.
This is one of the best team play based games I have ever played and it doesn't get stale like other games because of the asymmetrical design. My performance is just fine and there are very little bugs to boot.
http://unknownworlds.com/ns2/spark-engine-questions-and-answers-1-2/ says Dedicated Linux server support will be in the initial release. That is simply a blatant lie now. Also the paragraphs states that the port is fairly easy and it is only Steamworks fault being only available to the Windows world. Well this is definitely not the case anymore since many months of Steam for Linux and Valves plans to make a Linux gaming console.
I agree that they definitely support their product and it is fun to support Indie developers, but they don't really set priorities I imagined.
Where is the public bug-tracker?