<!--quoteo(post=2016772:date=Nov 9 2012, 06:09 AM:name=elodea)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elodea @ Nov 9 2012, 06:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2016772"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Real fans <b>did</b> buy into the beta, help test and balance, and brought up the inherent problems with alien kham and powernodes. They are <b>flawed concepts</b>, but for better or worse here to stay. We've come to accept that as a fact of life.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This thing you're referencing doesn't exist. There's no such thing as a fundamentally flawed conceptual game design. It's all about what a feature allows you to do for the game and what it causes to the game play of the game. I can see how you can make the misconception that powernodes are a flawed concept, they are very broken in the current version of NS... but they aren't hopeless. The alien commander, I'm starting to REALLY like. It equalizes the playing field not requiring one player on the team to "sacrifice" by being the res gorge, or the chamber gorge. It means we don't have to worry about those arsehole res hurs. It's allowed the addition of some really neat features to NS, cyst spread is really cool for both teams. It strikes me as unfinished though. It doesn't synch well with the alien lifeforms and their abilities quite yet, it would be especially nice if the khammander (I hate that word but I'll use it anyways) would be able to synergise with the gorges on his team a little more and vice versa. Flayra seems really afraid of giving commanders affordable offensive support options... I don't think it's necessarily the universally bad idea he thinks it is.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As for tres weapons, they might as well not exist. They were initially implemented in order for commanders to have <b>pres sinks</b> because they accrued pres just like everyone else. The tres system was then tweaked (1res per 8, now 7 secs as opposed to 4+rfk in ns1) to work within the budget of everything <b>but</b> equipment drops. So now we have tres equipment with huge opportunity costs within a tres system that also fundamentally has no room for it. Basically, poor design oversight for whatever reason.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's broken in it's current form, but you are SO SO INCREADIBLY wrong. The commanders ability to perform tres dumps into the offensive capability of his team is going to COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY guide the metagame in NS2. We're just beginning to see the early versions of timing pushes at standard timings. Granted the 6 minute onos is broken, but this will not be the only timing push we ever see in NS, especially at the competitive level. I think it would be better to actually make those timing pushes a more feasible thing. Allow the commander to make a choice between upgrading the armory and getting W1, and dropping his whole team shotguns and welders. If the team makes a strong push and kills the enemy, awesome! the whole metagame has to shift, aliens can't afford to be so greedy that they can't counter that push anymore. We need MORE discretionary spending of T-res in a balanced game, not less!
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The flamethrower might as well not exist either. Even if it was free, it does more harm than it does good with all that vision block and loss of dps. Energy sap is trivial, the dot is trivial, and it has a very small cone of aoe. Ironically, burning away spores causes more vision block than otherwise and I'd rather have a welder on me to kill cysts.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I hate playing against flame throwers as anything but the skulk. They're really annoying. Even as skulk the DPS potential of a good FT player is scary. I think it's generally preferable to have 1 or 2 flame throwers in a heavy push team. Especially if lerks are a factor. I think we'll see flame throwers in the competitive metagame on and off once the onos stuff clears up.
Why would people playing be an indication of a good purchase? In the beta, there were usually 3 servers up at most (~50 people). Still had a lot of fun playing.
P.S. About flamethrowers: just no. We won't see them in serious games until infestation actually becomes somewhat more meaningful than it is.
<!--quoteo(post=2017552:date=Nov 9 2012, 05:18 PM:name=freddie_stuter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (freddie_stuter @ Nov 9 2012, 05:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017552"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Any doubt on if you made a good purchase or not? Compare with others!
Edit: This is funny: <a href="http://steamgraph.net/index.php?action=graph&appid=33930&from=0" target="_blank">http://steamgraph.net/index.php?action=gra...3930&from=0</a>
<!--quoteo(post=2017541:date=Nov 9 2012, 02:03 PM:name=snaga)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snaga @ Nov 9 2012, 02:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017541"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->(who the ###### are you?)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The same as the other people from <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Past_NS_Competition_Winners" target="_blank">this page</a>, and the other PTs and mappers and anyone else who has been asked for input on the game, has told Charlie more-or-less the same damn thing (usually more diplomatically than I ever will) and been largely ignored in favor of shoehorning in the same old derivative, lame and unfun ideas that have been haunting NS since the start.
Most of the folks mentioned above, including me by now, are mostly resigned and playing other things that are more competitively alive. You'll be hard pressed though to find a more dedicated, more supportive of NS and productive bunch than these players - to slowly get rid of them has been a hard-earned effort on UWEs part, they aren't exactly fickle folk, what with having stuck around through nearly a decade.
Out of curiosity, who are you that credentials mean so much to you?
I was there for the release of Beta 1 of NS1. Hilariously laggy, completely unbalanced.
Outside of performance issues it's really tough to 'counter' any criticisms because they are very NS1-centric. This happens with every single sequel to every single game with a loyal following. L4D2 players were LIVID with the changes in the sequel. Starcraft... Counter-strike... it's ALWAYS the same. You'll have to learn to GET OVER IT, or play NS2:C.
As far as Source vs. Spark is concerned, they wanted to do things with infestation that Source simply couldn't accommodate.
Come back in a few months when the game is more mature and then we'll see where it's at.
<!--quoteo(post=2017691:date=Nov 9 2012, 05:05 PM:name=HoboJerky)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HoboJerky @ Nov 9 2012, 05:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017691"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have to say, 7 days is awfully short.
I was there for the release of Beta 1 of NS1. Hilariously laggy, completely unbalanced.
Outside of performance issues it's really tough to 'counter' any criticisms because they are very NS1-centric. This happens with every single sequel to every single game with a loyal following. L4D2 players were LIVID with the changes in the sequel. Starcraft... Counter-strike... it's ALWAYS the same. You'll have to learn to GET OVER IT, or play NS2:C.
As far as Source vs. Spark is concerned, they wanted to do things with infestation that Source simply couldn't accommodate.
Come back in a few months when the game is more mature and then we'll see where it's at.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wise words, deaf ears, I'm afraid. Its been the same since NS2 was even announced. This forum hasnt changed in years. There is a group of people who do not understand that opinions are not facts, and their experience in playing a game does not trump that of others. I played at the launch of NS1 as well, competed in CAL, and playtested as a Veteran. No amount of logic will sway these people, even from those of us who share their experience in play, and its a waste of time to attempt to do so. I drop in on these forums every few years, and posts like these are always waiting for me, baiting in those that care to indulge in a good session of yelling at a brick wall. I got over it, myself.
Kudos to UWE in how far NS2 has come. There is no doubt that there are still many things they will be addressing, and I am content with that fact. This thread will die, and yet another will take its place.
<!--quoteo(post=2017551:date=Nov 9 2012, 02:18 PM:name=snaga)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snaga @ Nov 9 2012, 02:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017551"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not really seeing this problem. If one team has been holding 5 res nodes for the good part of the game, obviously they will and should stomp the other team with Onos spam or whatever. If they haven't, they just won't have res for something like that.
Spamming Onos eggs doesn't really have any downside to it which might be a problem, but with Exos, you can't even have more than 3 of them active in a 8v8 match if you want them to actually be useful. Anything more than that and you're either not gonna have map presence anywhere else and will lose all your stuff while everyone is busy welding the Exos OR you're not gonna have welder marines which makes the Exos useless OR you're just gonna lose to a base rush while your Exos are stuck at a hive. Plenty of ways to counter Exos. The only lifeform that's not very useful against them is Fade I guess.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Example. Alien team on summit and we were doing well. We had most the map, with them only having 3 resource nodes, but 2 command posts. Some of us decide to Onos to end it. 3 Onos get up and we start moving in. I turn the corner, and basically die. Why? 5 Exos. The other 2 Onos fall back and that was the begining of the end. No matter what we did, they seemed to have 4-5 Exos up at one time while we were limited from 1-3. Why were we limited? Because we didn't rush Onos and used our money to buy other things. It was a slow losing grind to our lose.
We had map control, we had more resources. They, however, by saving up everything were able to Exo spam. There is no way to win vs mass Ult spam. Oh and keep in mind, when I say this, I mean 10-12vs10-12 players in pubs.
Again, while I have complaints, I do look forward to seeing what they do to fix this. I mean, if I wasn't, I would just load up TF2.
I am one to notice major changes in sequels, such as the one made from "Dragon Age: Origins" to "Dragon Age II", and I do not like it because it completely changes the game genre, and turns the game into something entirely different than of that which originally pulled my interested. And I, for one, can say that UWE did not do that to NS2. But, no one said that NS2 would be an exact copy of NS1. If it were to be an exact copy, they might as well have scrapped the project, because spending thousands of dollars developing a game just to increase its graphics is not compelling, not for the developers or players. The changes from NS1 to NS2 are so minor that everything the game once was is still intact. The only change in need of more consideration, is what the Gorge have become. Besides running behind and healing an Onos, Gorge have no sense of purpose in the game anymore. The goo-balls and hydras, for what little they're worth, does not make up for the engineering that the Gorge once contributed.
As that has been said, what you wrote about performance, is for lack of better words, and pardon my language, <i>bull######</i>. My computer is not up-to-date, running an i5-2500 CPU, 8GB RAM, with an old GTX 260 GPU, I run an average 60 FPS at end game. Anyone with a computer worse off than mine, who gets worse than 60 FPS on average, need to reconsider upgrading their computer, and if they do not reconsider upgrading their computer they need to stop playing computer games or simply trash their computer and never touch one again, as they are not intelligent enough to own one. No offense intended, but there is no other explanation than that you are either too poor or too ignorant. I live in a marxist society, the last communist state, I am allowed to say it.
As for everything that I did not reply to, the reason why I didn't reply to it, is because it is so out of this world redundant that it looks like a troll's post, I simply have to ignore it.
<!--quoteo(post=2017691:date=Nov 9 2012, 04:05 PM:name=HoboJerky)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HoboJerky @ Nov 9 2012, 04:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017691"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have to say, 7 days is awfully short.
I was there for the release of Beta 1 of NS1. Hilariously laggy, completely unbalanced.
Outside of performance issues it's really tough to 'counter' any criticisms because they are very NS1-centric. This happens with every single sequel to every single game with a loyal following. L4D2 players were LIVID with the changes in the sequel. Starcraft... Counter-strike... it's ALWAYS the same. You'll have to learn to GET OVER IT, or play NS2:C.
As far as Source vs. Spark is concerned, they wanted to do things with infestation that Source simply couldn't accommodate.
Come back in a few months when the game is more mature and then we'll see where it's at.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
7 days is awfully short, but I think a lot of people who bought this game and have been playing it for a year or more now kind of expected a more polished product come release day.
You'll be back. I've been in the beta for so long now, I certainly don't agree with a lot of the design decisions away from NS 1 but I can assure you NS 2 eventually grows on you. It's a great game really, maybe not as great as NS 1 but I'm sure that +- 6 months down the line (and this is relevant because they will keep patching for a long time to come) NS 2 will be a TRULY great game as well, just like it's predecessor. I agree performance still needs a lot of work though, but I'm sure that too is still very WIP and not just a closed deal for UWE.
<!--quoteo(post=2017704:date=Nov 9 2012, 05:25 PM:name=Cole)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cole @ Nov 9 2012, 05:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017704"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wise words, deaf ears, I'm afraid. Its been the same since NS2 was even announced. This forum hasnt changed in years. There is a group of people who do not understand that opinions are not facts, and their experience in playing a game does not trump that of others. I played at the launch of NS1 as well, competed in CAL, and playtested as a Veteran. No amount of logic will sway these people, even from those of us who share their experience in play, and its a waste of time to attempt to do so. I drop in on these forums every few years, and posts like these are always waiting for me, baiting in those that care to indulge in a good session of yelling at a brick wall. I got over it, myself.
Kudos to UWE in how far NS2 has come. There is no doubt that there are still many things they will be addressing, and I am content with that fact. This thread will die, and yet another will take its place.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm really impressed with what I've seen of NS2. Waiting for my computer parts to come in to play it :)
When I heard they were making their own engine, I cringed. Though their project would surely fail. I've been shown wrong. The hard part is over for them. From now on it's optimization and balancing. Quite easy comparatively.
There is nothing wrong at all with trying new ideas. But its all about to admit when visions and ideas dont work and change them. Thats really marks a great company from a bad one imo.
We shall see what they will be doing in the upcoming time of NS2. I personally think they are in the group that doesnt mind changing what doesnt work, because its obvious or will be.
When you balance a game, there is more than to secure a 50/50 winrate, because that really doesnt mean a lot in itself.
You can have 1 team having 1 viable strat and the other having 5 viable strats and still hit 50/50, does that mean the game is balanced ? :) or fun no.
The huge problem atm i think is the fun factor, i enjoyed aliens so much in NS1, i really dont enjoy any of them at all. and when i finally get to play a fade or Onos and i turn a corner and get blown away by grenade spam, that really pisses me off, thats like 30-40 min of gametime to collect that rest, now back to skulk or boring gorge :(
really wanna play alien, but no happening atm, its just to depressing. I loose my gun as marine i just run back and pick it up or yell that the dude who took it :P
I was actually timing evolution the other day, it was like 40 ish sec it took to evolve fade, seriously, sitting there watching your screen for 40 sec doing nothing, after you just had a respawn time of 12sec, that almost 1 min of doing nothing. I dont understand why as a marine i get my exo suit instantly, but i have to wait so long for evolution ?. to me that just seems silly, its not fun being taken out of the game for that long, i always alt + tab and surf on the internet or something. might as well do something.
<!--quoteo(post=2017566:date=Nov 10 2012, 09:32 AM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Swiftspear @ Nov 10 2012, 09:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017566"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This thing you're referencing doesn't exist. There's no such thing as a fundamentally flawed conceptual game design. It's all about what a feature allows you to do for the game and what it causes to the game play of the game. I can see how you can make the misconception that powernodes are a flawed concept, they are very broken in the current version of NS... but they aren't hopeless. The alien commander, I'm starting to REALLY like. It equalizes the playing field not requiring one player on the team to "sacrifice" by being the res gorge, or the chamber gorge. It means we don't have to worry about those arsehole res hurs. It's allowed the addition of some really neat features to NS, cyst spread is really cool for both teams. It strikes me as unfinished though. It doesn't synch well with the alien lifeforms and their abilities quite yet, it would be especially nice if the khammander (I hate that word but I'll use it anyways) would be able to synergise with the gorges on his team a little more and vice versa. Flayra seems really afraid of giving commanders affordable offensive support options... I don't think it's necessarily the universally bad idea he thinks it is.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is water under the bridge so i'm just trying to show that they are infact flawed for very simple reasons (yes there is such a thing as a flawed concept when it inherently doesn't fit its gameplay context, or does more harm than good).
<u><b>Alien commander</b></u> Whichever way you slice it, it's split the ns1 gorge role into two. The inclusion of cyst rupture, infestation spikes, enzyme arn't nowhere near enough to fix the big gaping hole of inactivity both roles now suffer from. What else would you suggest to fill this gap? The only thing in ns2 history that ever came close was fast, cheap whips and they were nerfed for balance reasons (there is too much conflict within the game to allow a meaningful alien commander role). I don't know about you, but i quickly got bored using my magic wand cursor to find black smoke monsters while waiting for res to get the next onos egg or hive.
The next flaw is interacting tres with abilities that don't scale with player number. Something deemed so evil and monstrous it resulted in an entirely new pres/tres system. The scope is limited for making both alien comm and gorge meaningful.
<u><b>Powernodes</b></u> Powernodes are essentially i-win buttons and do very little else. The only positive they add is the ease in which they allow new players to understand which building needs to die first. They compress the effective hp of all buildings in a certain area into 4k. A full base will have structures with up to 20k in hp overall, with the CC win button at 5k - why ever attack the CC when you can kill the powernode? When is such a mechanic ever a good thing? And don't give me pylon crap - there isn't a limit of one pylon per area in sc.
We also don't find powernodes only in marine bases. If we try to balance powernode hp and buildtimes so that they arn't easy cheese buttons, by consequence we also slow the game down by adding more menial duty <b>everywhere else on the map</b>. If we reduce powernode hp and buildtimes to alleviate the tedious process of building and destroying powernodes, we come back to our first situation. There is no golden number that also doesn't harm the game. Right now, powernodes are balanced in the middle such that they are comically overpowered as i-win buttons, yet tedious nightmares when building and destroying (nowhere worth the time to destroy them in almost every rt room when you need to be either chomping the next rt or defending your own harvesters).
I don't mean to be elitist in the slightest, but i recommend playing the game more in order to see some of these flaws that cannot reasonably be worked around. Most of the time, these flaws arise because of a conflict of intended immersiveness vs gameplay as we clearly see in the case of powernodes.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's broken in it's current form, but you are SO SO INCREADIBLY wrong. The commanders ability to perform tres dumps into the offensive capability of his team is going to COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY guide the metagame in NS2. We're just beginning to see the early versions of timing pushes at standard timings. Granted the 6 minute onos is broken, but this will not be the only timing push we ever see in NS, especially at the competitive level. I think it would be better to actually make those timing pushes a more feasible thing. Allow the commander to make a choice between upgrading the armory and getting W1, and dropping his whole team shotguns and welders. If the team makes a strong push and kills the enemy, awesome! the whole metagame has to shift, aliens can't afford to be so greedy that they can't counter that push anymore. We need MORE discretionary spending of T-res in a balanced game, not less!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The issue of tres scaling is an evil UWE intends to combat at every step of the way. This is why tres equipment drops will fundamentally never work, no matter how much 'depth' they end up adding to comp 6 v 6. We have a pres/tres system and i don't believe adding different ways of obtaining equipment does any good other than muddy the waters. If we want to design for timing attacks, we should be working within the pres system in the first place.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I hate playing against flame throwers as anything but the skulk. They're really annoying. Even as skulk the DPS potential of a good FT player is scary. I think it's generally preferable to have 1 or 2 flame throwers in a heavy push team. Especially if lerks are a factor. I think we'll see flame throwers in the competitive metagame on and off once the onos stuff clears up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> So you would rather have a flamer instead of a gl? Or a flamer instead of a sg? You would rather block the vision of your team mates and render <b>all</b> other dps close to null? We never saw flamethrowers in competitive metagame even before tres lifeforms and onos eggs because they <b>simply arn't worth the res</b>. When you can field players with incredible tracking and aim, why would you commit the heresy of equipping them with a flamethrower?
Seriously, you should consider taking to the stage, it reminded me of a certain <a href="http://youmakemetouchyourhandsforstupidreasons.ytmnd.com/" target="_blank">breakup letter</a>... Recommended for a solid laugh. I rate 5 stars.
<!--quoteo(post=2018171:date=Nov 10 2012, 12:54 PM:name=Hamlet)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hamlet @ Nov 10 2012, 12:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2018171"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Please be more vague in your criticism. "More of everything" - EVERYBODY instantly knows what you are talking about.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was expecting more alien races, more abilities, more traits, more buildings.
People keep saying they didn't want NS1 which is fine, neither did I but I wanted the good stuff from it and not 75% of it.
They removed several abilities and evolution traits from aliens without adding anything else and it made aliens super boring to play.
Why did we not get a sixth alien race or had some removed in favor of a new one? Doesn't aliens evolve? This is more like devolving if you ask me.
Also why remove the HMG and add a flamer? Why couldn't we have both?
My point is they were lazy, they removed some good stuff and forgot to add substitutes.
In my experience, you can't fight bull###### with rational argument or pointing out the facts. Take the OP's (retarded, I might add) claim that UWE does not communicate with its players. Sure, you could go ahead and point out that there are over 500 gameplay videos made by Hugh alone. Watching just 2-3 of them should give you a pretty solid idea what NS2 plays like. Sure, you could point out that they have a Twitter feed where you can always see what they are working on. Sure, you could point out there are weekly Twitch.TV Q&A sessions with all the developers who talk about their plans and the upcoming patches or sure, you could point out that since the beginning of the beta, this game has went through 228 iterations with huge changes and sure, you could point out that they have announced over and over that they will keep expanding NS2 like Valve did with TF2.
But this is pointless, because a) it's impossible to refute baseless bull###### in real-time - the bull######ter will always be <i><b>faster </b></i>in ###### out his opinionated mind-turds and b) it's pointless because he doesn't care whether anything he sputters may be even remotely true. Correcting even a single point, on the other hand (and backing it up with facts), takes time.
@Cane First, you seem to think that more always means better. Would NS2 be a better game if there were 10 marginally different kinds of shotgun? Nope, it would be REDUNDANT. If there was more of everything, you would be the first in this forum to complain about the vertical learning curve and that it is overly complex for anyone to comprehend what building number #623 actually does... Why they removed the HMG? Because it was bad design. The LMG in NS2 is usefull throughout the whole game. In NS1 the HMG was a clear replacement for the LMG; there was not even a contest: 2.5 times the ammo, 2x the damage - there were only advantages. In good games like StarCraft even basic units like the Zergling or the Marine are still useful in the late game. I find it rather telling that you crave BAD DESIGN.
Last point: "My point is they were lazy, they removed some good stuff and forgot to add substitutes." Oh, great wizard of game development, how can you justify to yourself wasting your time on sub-par games by lazy developers like UWE? It's like Stephen Hawking wasting his potential on Halo4...
<!--quoteo(post=2016314:date=Nov 8 2012, 08:02 PM:name=Lofung)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lofung @ Nov 8 2012, 08:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2016314"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->now i just think i pay 39.99 to ns1. forget about ns2. yes it is indeed quite disappointing even if you disregard those performance issue. the gameplay structure is just outright strange and not well-thought..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I thought quite the same the first hour. Then I thought "I would call noob a guy who moaned about something he doesn't understand." Then I started learning how things work now. Now I understand it, it is very well-thought. So don't moan -.-"
<!--quoteo(post=2018200:date=Nov 10 2012, 05:27 AM:name=Hamlet)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hamlet @ Nov 10 2012, 05:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2018200"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->@Cane First, you seem to think that more always means better. Would NS2 be a better game if there were 10 marginally different kinds of shotgun? Nope, it would be REDUNDANT. If there was more of everything, you would be the first in this forum to complain about the vertical learning curve and that it is overly complex for anyone to comprehend what building number #623 actually does... Why they removed the HMG? Because it was bad design. The LMG in NS2 is usefull throughout the whole game. In NS1 the HMG was a clear replacement for the LMG; there was not even a contest: 2.5 times the ammo, 2x the damage - there were only advantages. In good games like StarCraft even basic units like the Zergling or the Marine are still useful in the late game. I find it rather telling that you crave BAD DESIGN.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> God, you are right! +1 fav like whatever! xD
<!--quoteo(post=2016345:date=Nov 8 2012, 08:27 PM:name=hate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hate @ Nov 8 2012, 08:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2016345"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->He didn't say it should've been fixed, he said we haven't heard anything about them even TRYING to fix it. Which is true.
I don't really know why people are getting bad performance, I can get a constant 60 fps with the shadows and occlusion turned down, and the computer I have isn't that great (i5-2320 @ 3.0ghz, Geforce 550ti). But clearly it's a problem that's affecting some people.
Patching is great, but they didn't have to release when they did. The game probably wasn't ready for it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I got Geforce 560ti and an i3, and I also get 60fps the whole time. Weird...
Emergency light virtually dark? You have to be kidding me. All it does is make everything look red. Aliens still stand out just fine, particularly when moving.
What exactly is the problem? You waited 10 years for NS2, you can't wait (or appreciate) continued development and patches after release?
UWE so far is not behaving like other (i.e. BIGGER) developers. Could you even remotely imagine receiving a free copy for your next Call of Duty?
Also, they promised to improve the game after release like Valve did with TF2. I don't have a crystal ball so I can't tell you if they stick to their word, but how many games do you possess that received exactly 1 patch after release and never got touched by their developers again? It's the ###### majority of all my games. Big-time developers push out their product, fix the most horrible bugs and move on to the sequel. If you are lucky, they even turn off the gameservers 6 months later... (try playing the Diablo3 single player in 10 or 15 years from now - could be funny with the always-online DRM)
Sooo. Build 229 is in the making and there seems to be more good stuff in the pipeline, like new maps and graphic sets (just have a look in the Art Book) Is it really that hard to switch to another game and then come back to NS2 in a few weeks? I guess nothing can beat the craving for instant gratification...
<!--quoteo(post=2017665:date=Nov 10 2012, 02:50 AM:name=tarshish)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tarshish @ Nov 10 2012, 02:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017665"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The same as the other people from <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Past_NS_Competition_Winners" target="_blank">this page</a>, and the other PTs and mappers and anyone else who has been asked for input on the game, has told Charlie more-or-less the same damn thing (usually more diplomatically than I ever will) and been largely ignored in favor of shoehorning in the same old derivative, lame and unfun ideas that have been haunting NS since the start.
Most of the folks mentioned above, including me by now, are mostly resigned and playing other things that are more competitively alive.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure, and that's why you felt the need to make a new account (why aren't you banned already since you obviously were before?) so you could specifically come here to ###### and moan about a game you apparently have no interest in.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You'll be hard pressed though to find a more dedicated, more supportive of NS and productive bunch than these players - to slowly get rid of them has been a hard-earned effort on UWEs part, they aren't exactly fickle folk, what with having stuck around through nearly a decade.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's literally no physical way for your posts to be any less "supportive" or "productive". You are the antithesis of supportive and productive.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Out of curiosity, who are you that credentials mean so much to you?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh me? I, too, was just curious since I myself wouldn't be throwing those kind of ad hominems and vile personal insults against a friggin' game developer I don't even know, unless they like literally killed my dog or scammed me out of my life savings. But now I can see Charlie did something much, much worse to you: he made a game and then a sequel to it.
<!--quoteo(post=2017495:date=Nov 10 2012, 12:19 AM:name=tarshish)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tarshish @ Nov 10 2012, 12:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017495"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's a shame to see the same dumb thing happen again. Launch is the time to convince people you've got a good game, not to show them you're still a vain idiot who sacrifices playability for stillborn concepts from the past.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dude, it's a video game. You need professional help.
To be entirely fair to the OP, aliens have been nerfed into the dirt. Not only has their skill cap at killing marines always been high, but now they have less options to work with, specifically FOCUS. Focus allowed aliens to deal with the marine range issue by only needing a couple bites on a marine at level 1. NS2 has the same skulk HP, what seems to be the same speed and model (hitbox) size and nothing to back it up. I also have to agree that aliens shouldn't have a commander, going with the hive-mind philosophy when it comes to this race. Gorges seem nothing like they were in NS1, their towers do mediocre damage and their options of building are so limited. "Yeah, let's go gorge so we can healbot the Onos all game!" Plently of fun that is, NOT! Fades are also laughably weak in terms of HP and armor compared to NS1, two LV3 shotgun blasts levels them. The only thing aliens have going for them are lerks, which aren't even a direct combat unit. Spores are strong, but they only get kills if marines are pants-on-head retarded.
Meanwhile, any decent NS1 player knows jetpacking marine w/ grenade launcher rapes aliens, which also happens to be cheap as dirt since marines can now buy their own gear, but those two items haven't been nerfed at all.
I'm seriously considering uninstalling this until you guys get your ###### together. All you had to do was have NS1 with some nice improvements and everything would have been fine. How disappointing that the rest of the fanboys in this thread just tell us to stop playing. Encourage a better game, not embracing your turd sandwich.
<!--quoteo(post=2018311:date=Nov 10 2012, 05:12 PM:name=Crawdacity)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Crawdacity @ Nov 10 2012, 05:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2018311"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"Yeah, let's go gorge so we can healbot the Onos all game!" Plently of fun that is, NOT!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, it is fun. And no, it's not the only thing Gorges can do.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->All you had to do was have NS1 with some nice improvements and everything would have been fine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
This thing you're referencing doesn't exist. There's no such thing as a fundamentally flawed conceptual game design. It's all about what a feature allows you to do for the game and what it causes to the game play of the game. I can see how you can make the misconception that powernodes are a flawed concept, they are very broken in the current version of NS... but they aren't hopeless. The alien commander, I'm starting to REALLY like. It equalizes the playing field not requiring one player on the team to "sacrifice" by being the res gorge, or the chamber gorge. It means we don't have to worry about those arsehole res hurs. It's allowed the addition of some really neat features to NS, cyst spread is really cool for both teams. It strikes me as unfinished though. It doesn't synch well with the alien lifeforms and their abilities quite yet, it would be especially nice if the khammander (I hate that word but I'll use it anyways) would be able to synergise with the gorges on his team a little more and vice versa. Flayra seems really afraid of giving commanders affordable offensive support options... I don't think it's necessarily the universally bad idea he thinks it is.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As for tres weapons, they might as well not exist. They were initially implemented in order for commanders to have <b>pres sinks</b> because they accrued pres just like everyone else. The tres system was then tweaked (1res per 8, now 7 secs as opposed to 4+rfk in ns1) to work within the budget of everything <b>but</b> equipment drops. So now we have tres equipment with huge opportunity costs within a tres system that also fundamentally has no room for it. Basically, poor design oversight for whatever reason.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's broken in it's current form, but you are SO SO INCREADIBLY wrong. The commanders ability to perform tres dumps into the offensive capability of his team is going to COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY guide the metagame in NS2. We're just beginning to see the early versions of timing pushes at standard timings. Granted the 6 minute onos is broken, but this will not be the only timing push we ever see in NS, especially at the competitive level. I think it would be better to actually make those timing pushes a more feasible thing. Allow the commander to make a choice between upgrading the armory and getting W1, and dropping his whole team shotguns and welders. If the team makes a strong push and kills the enemy, awesome! the whole metagame has to shift, aliens can't afford to be so greedy that they can't counter that push anymore. We need MORE discretionary spending of T-res in a balanced game, not less!
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The flamethrower might as well not exist either. Even if it was free, it does more harm than it does good with all that vision block and loss of dps. Energy sap is trivial, the dot is trivial, and it has a very small cone of aoe. Ironically, burning away spores causes more vision block than otherwise and I'd rather have a welder on me to kill cysts.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I hate playing against flame throwers as anything but the skulk. They're really annoying. Even as skulk the DPS potential of a good FT player is scary. I think it's generally preferable to have 1 or 2 flame throwers in a heavy push team. Especially if lerks are a factor. I think we'll see flame throwers in the competitive metagame on and off once the onos stuff clears up.
P.S. About flamethrowers: just no. We won't see them in serious games until infestation actually becomes somewhat more meaningful than it is.
<a href="http://steamgraph.net/index.php?action=graph&appid=4920&from=1351872722" target="_blank">http://steamgraph.net/index.php?action=gra...from=1351872722</a>
Losing 250-500 players per day!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href="http://steamgraph.net/index.php?action=graph&jstime=1&appid=730&from=1345359600000&to=1346396400000" target="_blank">http://steamgraph.net/index.php?action=gra...o=1346396400000</a>
Looks more or less identical to CS:GO a week and a half after it's release date.
Guess it sucks when statistics don't say what you want them to.
Looks more or less identical to CS:GO a week and a half after it's release date.
Guess it sucks when statistics don't say what you want them to.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href="http://steamgraph.net/index.php?action=graph&jstime=1&appid=49520&from=1347656400000&to=1352498400000" target="_blank">http://steamgraph.net/index.php?action=gra...o=1352498400000</a>
ZOMG
Edit: This is funny: <a href="http://steamgraph.net/index.php?action=graph&appid=33930&from=0" target="_blank">http://steamgraph.net/index.php?action=gra...3930&from=0</a>
not to sound entitled or anything, but the devs should hurry their asses up with some performance, balance, and bug fixes.
The same as the other people from <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Past_NS_Competition_Winners" target="_blank">this page</a>, and the other PTs and mappers and anyone else who has been asked for input on the game, has told Charlie more-or-less the same damn thing (usually more diplomatically than I ever will) and been largely ignored in favor of shoehorning in the same old derivative, lame and unfun ideas that have been haunting NS since the start.
Most of the folks mentioned above, including me by now, are mostly resigned and playing other things that are more competitively alive. You'll be hard pressed though to find a more dedicated, more supportive of NS and productive bunch than these players - to slowly get rid of them has been a hard-earned effort on UWEs part, they aren't exactly fickle folk, what with having stuck around through nearly a decade.
Out of curiosity, who are you that credentials mean so much to you?
I was there for the release of Beta 1 of NS1. Hilariously laggy, completely unbalanced.
Outside of performance issues it's really tough to 'counter' any criticisms because they are very NS1-centric. This happens with every single sequel to every single game with a loyal following. L4D2 players were LIVID with the changes in the sequel. Starcraft... Counter-strike... it's ALWAYS the same. You'll have to learn to GET OVER IT, or play NS2:C.
As far as Source vs. Spark is concerned, they wanted to do things with infestation that Source simply couldn't accommodate.
Come back in a few months when the game is more mature and then we'll see where it's at.
I was there for the release of Beta 1 of NS1. Hilariously laggy, completely unbalanced.
Outside of performance issues it's really tough to 'counter' any criticisms because they are very NS1-centric. This happens with every single sequel to every single game with a loyal following. L4D2 players were LIVID with the changes in the sequel. Starcraft... Counter-strike... it's ALWAYS the same. You'll have to learn to GET OVER IT, or play NS2:C.
As far as Source vs. Spark is concerned, they wanted to do things with infestation that Source simply couldn't accommodate.
Come back in a few months when the game is more mature and then we'll see where it's at.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wise words, deaf ears, I'm afraid. Its been the same since NS2 was even announced. This forum hasnt changed in years. There is a group of people who do not understand that opinions are not facts, and their experience in playing a game does not trump that of others. I played at the launch of NS1 as well, competed in CAL, and playtested as a Veteran. No amount of logic will sway these people, even from those of us who share their experience in play, and its a waste of time to attempt to do so. I drop in on these forums every few years, and posts like these are always waiting for me, baiting in those that care to indulge in a good session of yelling at a brick wall. I got over it, myself.
Kudos to UWE in how far NS2 has come. There is no doubt that there are still many things they will be addressing, and I am content with that fact. This thread will die, and yet another will take its place.
Spamming Onos eggs doesn't really have any downside to it which might be a problem, but with Exos, you can't even have more than 3 of them active in a 8v8 match if you want them to actually be useful. Anything more than that and you're either not gonna have map presence anywhere else and will lose all your stuff while everyone is busy welding the Exos OR you're not gonna have welder marines which makes the Exos useless OR you're just gonna lose to a base rush while your Exos are stuck at a hive. Plenty of ways to counter Exos. The only lifeform that's not very useful against them is Fade I guess.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Example. Alien team on summit and we were doing well. We had most the map, with them only having 3 resource nodes, but 2 command posts. Some of us decide to Onos to end it. 3 Onos get up and we start moving in. I turn the corner, and basically die. Why? 5 Exos. The other 2 Onos fall back and that was the begining of the end. No matter what we did, they seemed to have 4-5 Exos up at one time while we were limited from 1-3. Why were we limited? Because we didn't rush Onos and used our money to buy other things. It was a slow losing grind to our lose.
We had map control, we had more resources. They, however, by saving up everything were able to Exo spam. There is no way to win vs mass Ult spam. Oh and keep in mind, when I say this, I mean 10-12vs10-12 players in pubs.
Again, while I have complaints, I do look forward to seeing what they do to fix this. I mean, if I wasn't, I would just load up TF2.
As that has been said, what you wrote about performance, is for lack of better words, and pardon my language, <i>bull######</i>. My computer is not up-to-date, running an i5-2500 CPU, 8GB RAM, with an old GTX 260 GPU, I run an average 60 FPS at end game. Anyone with a computer worse off than mine, who gets worse than 60 FPS on average, need to reconsider upgrading their computer, and if they do not reconsider upgrading their computer they need to stop playing computer games or simply trash their computer and never touch one again, as they are not intelligent enough to own one. No offense intended, but there is no other explanation than that you are either too poor or too ignorant. I live in a marxist society, the last communist state, I am allowed to say it.
As for everything that I did not reply to, the reason why I didn't reply to it, is because it is so out of this world redundant that it looks like a troll's post, I simply have to ignore it.
I was there for the release of Beta 1 of NS1. Hilariously laggy, completely unbalanced.
Outside of performance issues it's really tough to 'counter' any criticisms because they are very NS1-centric. This happens with every single sequel to every single game with a loyal following. L4D2 players were LIVID with the changes in the sequel. Starcraft... Counter-strike... it's ALWAYS the same. You'll have to learn to GET OVER IT, or play NS2:C.
As far as Source vs. Spark is concerned, they wanted to do things with infestation that Source simply couldn't accommodate.
Come back in a few months when the game is more mature and then we'll see where it's at.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
7 days is awfully short, but I think a lot of people who bought this game and have been playing it for a year or more now kind of expected a more polished product come release day.
Kudos to UWE in how far NS2 has come. There is no doubt that there are still many things they will be addressing, and I am content with that fact. This thread will die, and yet another will take its place.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm really impressed with what I've seen of NS2. Waiting for my computer parts to come in to play it :)
When I heard they were making their own engine, I cringed. Though their project would surely fail. I've been shown wrong. The hard part is over for them. From now on it's optimization and balancing. Quite easy comparatively.
Looking forward to playing this coming week!
We shall see what they will be doing in the upcoming time of NS2. I personally think they are in the group that doesnt mind changing what doesnt work, because its obvious or will be.
When you balance a game, there is more than to secure a 50/50 winrate, because that really doesnt mean a lot in itself.
You can have 1 team having 1 viable strat and the other having 5 viable strats and still hit 50/50, does that mean the game is balanced ? :) or fun no.
The huge problem atm i think is the fun factor, i enjoyed aliens so much in NS1, i really dont enjoy any of them at all. and when i finally get to play a fade or Onos and i turn a corner and get blown away by grenade spam, that really pisses me off, thats like 30-40 min of gametime to collect that rest, now back to skulk or boring gorge :(
really wanna play alien, but no happening atm, its just to depressing. I loose my gun as marine i just run back and pick it up or yell that the dude who took it :P
I was actually timing evolution the other day, it was like 40 ish sec it took to evolve fade, seriously, sitting there watching your screen for 40 sec doing nothing, after you just had a respawn time of 12sec, that almost 1 min of doing nothing. I dont understand why as a marine i get my exo suit instantly, but i have to wait so long for evolution ?. to me that just seems silly, its not fun being taken out of the game for that long, i always alt + tab and surf on the internet or something. might as well do something.
This is water under the bridge so i'm just trying to show that they are infact flawed for very simple reasons (yes there is such a thing as a flawed concept when it inherently doesn't fit its gameplay context, or does more harm than good).
<u><b>Alien commander</b></u>
Whichever way you slice it, it's split the ns1 gorge role into two. The inclusion of cyst rupture, infestation spikes, enzyme arn't nowhere near enough to fix the big gaping hole of inactivity both roles now suffer from. What else would you suggest to fill this gap? The only thing in ns2 history that ever came close was fast, cheap whips and they were nerfed for balance reasons (there is too much conflict within the game to allow a meaningful alien commander role). I don't know about you, but i quickly got bored using my magic wand cursor to find black smoke monsters while waiting for res to get the next onos egg or hive.
The next flaw is interacting tres with abilities that don't scale with player number. Something deemed so evil and monstrous it resulted in an entirely new pres/tres system. The scope is limited for making both alien comm and gorge meaningful.
<u><b>Powernodes</b></u>
Powernodes are essentially i-win buttons and do very little else. The only positive they add is the ease in which they allow new players to understand which building needs to die first. They compress the effective hp of all buildings in a certain area into 4k. A full base will have structures with up to 20k in hp overall, with the CC win button at 5k - why ever attack the CC when you can kill the powernode? When is such a mechanic ever a good thing? And don't give me pylon crap - there isn't a limit of one pylon per area in sc.
We also don't find powernodes only in marine bases. If we try to balance powernode hp and buildtimes so that they arn't easy cheese buttons, by consequence we also slow the game down by adding more menial duty <b>everywhere else on the map</b>. If we reduce powernode hp and buildtimes to alleviate the tedious process of building and destroying powernodes, we come back to our first situation. There is no golden number that also doesn't harm the game. Right now, powernodes are balanced in the middle such that they are comically overpowered as i-win buttons, yet tedious nightmares when building and destroying (nowhere worth the time to destroy them in almost every rt room when you need to be either chomping the next rt or defending your own harvesters).
I don't mean to be elitist in the slightest, but i recommend playing the game more in order to see some of these flaws that cannot reasonably be worked around. Most of the time, these flaws arise because of a conflict of intended immersiveness vs gameplay as we clearly see in the case of powernodes.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's broken in it's current form, but you are SO SO INCREADIBLY wrong. The commanders ability to perform tres dumps into the offensive capability of his team is going to COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY guide the metagame in NS2. We're just beginning to see the early versions of timing pushes at standard timings. Granted the 6 minute onos is broken, but this will not be the only timing push we ever see in NS, especially at the competitive level. I think it would be better to actually make those timing pushes a more feasible thing. Allow the commander to make a choice between upgrading the armory and getting W1, and dropping his whole team shotguns and welders. If the team makes a strong push and kills the enemy, awesome! the whole metagame has to shift, aliens can't afford to be so greedy that they can't counter that push anymore. We need MORE discretionary spending of T-res in a balanced game, not less!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The issue of tres scaling is an evil UWE intends to combat at every step of the way. This is why tres equipment drops will fundamentally never work, no matter how much 'depth' they end up adding to comp 6 v 6. We have a pres/tres system and i don't believe adding different ways of obtaining equipment does any good other than muddy the waters. If we want to design for timing attacks, we should be working within the pres system in the first place.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I hate playing against flame throwers as anything but the skulk. They're really annoying. Even as skulk the DPS potential of a good FT player is scary. I think it's generally preferable to have 1 or 2 flame throwers in a heavy push team. Especially if lerks are a factor. I think we'll see flame throwers in the competitive metagame on and off once the onos stuff clears up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you would rather have a flamer instead of a gl? Or a flamer instead of a sg? You would rather block the vision of your team mates and render <b>all</b> other dps close to null? We never saw flamethrowers in competitive metagame even before tres lifeforms and onos eggs because they <b>simply arn't worth the res</b>. When you can field players with incredible tracking and aim, why would you commit the heresy of equipping them with a flamethrower?
Pure comedy gold!
Seriously, you should consider taking to the stage, it reminded me of a certain <a href="http://youmakemetouchyourhandsforstupidreasons.ytmnd.com/" target="_blank">breakup letter</a>...
Recommended for a solid laugh. I rate 5 stars.
I guess after so many hundreds of hours in NS1 I just expected more of everything and not more in some areas and less in some areas
"More of everything" - EVERYBODY instantly knows what you are talking about.
"More of everything" - EVERYBODY instantly knows what you are talking about.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was expecting more alien races, more abilities, more traits, more buildings.
People keep saying they didn't want NS1 which is fine, neither did I but I wanted the good stuff from it and not 75% of it.
They removed several abilities and evolution traits from aliens without adding anything else and it made aliens super boring to play.
Why did we not get a sixth alien race or had some removed in favor of a new one? Doesn't aliens evolve? This is more like devolving if you ask me.
Also why remove the HMG and add a flamer? Why couldn't we have both?
My point is they were lazy, they removed some good stuff and forgot to add substitutes.
Take the OP's (retarded, I might add) claim that UWE does not communicate with its players. Sure, you could go ahead and point out that there are over 500 gameplay videos made by Hugh alone. Watching just 2-3 of them should give you a pretty solid idea what NS2 plays like. Sure, you could point out that they have a Twitter feed where you can always see what they are working on. Sure, you could point out there are weekly Twitch.TV Q&A sessions with all the developers who talk about their plans and the upcoming patches or sure, you could point out that since the beginning of the beta, this game has went through 228 iterations with huge changes and sure, you could point out that they have announced over and over that they will keep expanding NS2 like Valve did with TF2.
But this is pointless, because a) it's impossible to refute baseless bull###### in real-time - the bull######ter will always be <i><b>faster </b></i>in ###### out his opinionated mind-turds and b) it's pointless because he doesn't care whether anything he sputters may be even remotely true. Correcting even a single point, on the other hand (and backing it up with facts), takes time.
@Cane
First, you seem to think that more always means better. Would NS2 be a better game if there were 10 marginally different kinds of shotgun? Nope, it would be REDUNDANT.
If there was more of everything, you would be the first in this forum to complain about the vertical learning curve and that it is overly complex for anyone to comprehend what building number #623 actually does...
Why they removed the HMG? Because it was bad design. The LMG in NS2 is usefull throughout the whole game. In NS1 the HMG was a clear replacement for the LMG; there was not even a contest: 2.5 times the ammo, 2x the damage - there were only advantages. In good games like StarCraft even basic units like the Zergling or the Marine are still useful in the late game. I find it rather telling that you crave BAD DESIGN.
Last point:
"My point is they were lazy, they removed some good stuff and forgot to add substitutes."
Oh, great wizard of game development, how can you justify to yourself wasting your time on sub-par games by lazy developers like UWE? It's like Stephen Hawking wasting his potential on Halo4...
I thought quite the same the first hour. Then I thought "I would call noob a guy who moaned about something he doesn't understand."
Then I started learning how things work now. Now I understand it, it is very well-thought.
So don't moan -.-"
First, you seem to think that more always means better. Would NS2 be a better game if there were 10 marginally different kinds of shotgun? Nope, it would be REDUNDANT.
If there was more of everything, you would be the first in this forum to complain about the vertical learning curve and that it is overly complex for anyone to comprehend what building number #623 actually does...
Why they removed the HMG? Because it was bad design. The LMG in NS2 is usefull throughout the whole game. In NS1 the HMG was a clear replacement for the LMG; there was not even a contest: 2.5 times the ammo, 2x the damage - there were only advantages. In good games like StarCraft even basic units like the Zergling or the Marine are still useful in the late game. I find it rather telling that you crave BAD DESIGN.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
God, you are right! +1 fav like whatever! xD
I don't really know why people are getting bad performance, I can get a constant 60 fps with the shadows and occlusion turned down, and the computer I have isn't that great (i5-2320 @ 3.0ghz, Geforce 550ti). But clearly it's a problem that's affecting some people.
Patching is great, but they didn't have to release when they did. The game probably wasn't ready for it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I got Geforce 560ti and an i3, and I also get 60fps the whole time. Weird...
UWE so far is not behaving like other (i.e. BIGGER) developers.
Could you even remotely imagine receiving a free copy for your next Call of Duty?
Also, they promised to improve the game after release like Valve did with TF2.
I don't have a crystal ball so I can't tell you if they stick to their word, but how many games do you possess that received exactly 1 patch after release and never got touched by their developers again? It's the ###### majority of all my games. Big-time developers push out their product, fix the most horrible bugs and move on to the sequel. If you are lucky, they even turn off the gameservers 6 months later... (try playing the Diablo3 single player in 10 or 15 years from now - could be funny with the always-online DRM)
Sooo. Build 229 is in the making and there seems to be more good stuff in the pipeline, like new maps and graphic sets (just have a look in the Art Book)
Is it really that hard to switch to another game and then come back to NS2 in a few weeks?
I guess nothing can beat the craving for instant gratification...
Most of the folks mentioned above, including me by now, are mostly resigned and playing other things that are more competitively alive.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure, and that's why you felt the need to make a new account (why aren't you banned already since you obviously were before?) so you could specifically come here to ###### and moan about a game you apparently have no interest in.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You'll be hard pressed though to find a more dedicated, more supportive of NS and productive bunch than these players - to slowly get rid of them has been a hard-earned effort on UWEs part, they aren't exactly fickle folk, what with having stuck around through nearly a decade.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's literally no physical way for your posts to be any less "supportive" or "productive". You are the antithesis of supportive and productive.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Out of curiosity, who are you that credentials mean so much to you?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh me? I, too, was just curious since I myself wouldn't be throwing those kind of ad hominems and vile personal insults against a friggin' game developer I don't even know, unless they like literally killed my dog or scammed me out of my life savings. But now I can see Charlie did something much, much worse to you: he made a game and then a sequel to it.
<!--quoteo(post=2017495:date=Nov 10 2012, 12:19 AM:name=tarshish)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tarshish @ Nov 10 2012, 12:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017495"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's a shame to see the same dumb thing happen again. Launch is the time to convince people you've got a good game, not to show them you're still a vain idiot who sacrifices playability for stillborn concepts from the past.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dude, it's a video game. You need professional help.
Meanwhile, any decent NS1 player knows jetpacking marine w/ grenade launcher rapes aliens, which also happens to be cheap as dirt since marines can now buy their own gear, but those two items haven't been nerfed at all.
I'm seriously considering uninstalling this until you guys get your ###### together. All you had to do was have NS1 with some nice improvements and everything would have been fine. How disappointing that the rest of the fanboys in this thread just tell us to stop playing. Encourage a better game, not embracing your turd sandwich.
<img src="http://www.tfportal.de/gfx/content/tf2/classes/class_medicred.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Yes, it is fun. And no, it's not the only thing Gorges can do.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->All you had to do was have NS1 with some nice improvements and everything would have been fine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No. NS1 already exists, go play it.