Yes, it is fun. And no, it's not the only thing Gorges can do.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think "TF2 pulled it off, it's fine" is one of the worst ways you can go with NS2. TF2 is an amazingly well designed game, built on a solid engine and AAA level production values. You don't want to go competing with TF2, it's a heavyweight in it's own style of play.
Where TF2 is kind of disappointing, or at least less interesting - less than NS1 for example - is that the roles are kind of strict and limited. A medic is a healer all round long, anything else is kind of last resort. Meanwhile NS1 gorge is a damn funny mix of meatshield, healer, ranged support, builder and artillery support that can contribute to your average round in multitude of ways. Every round you've got options on how you choose to contribute rather than doing the one thing you were designed to do.
The versatility of roles in NS1 is one of the huge things that makes you come back and play the game for years rather than weeks. The creative possibilities are one of the biggest reasons why NS1 is the defining experience and able to offer more than something as big and high quality as TF2 is.
<!--quoteo(post=2018443:date=Nov 10 2012, 12:51 PM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Nov 10 2012, 12:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2018443"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think "TF2 pulled it off, it's fine" is one of the worst ways you can go with NS2. TF2 is an amazingly well designed game, built on a solid engine and AAA level production values. You don't want to go competing with TF2, it's a heavyweight in it's own style of play.
Where TF2 is kind of disappointing, or at least less interesting - less than NS1 for example - is that the roles are kind of strict and limited. A medic is a healer all round long, anything else is kind of last resort. Meanwhile NS1 gorge is a damn funny mix of meatshield, healer, ranged support, builder and artillery support that can contribute to your average round in multitude of ways. Every round you've got options on how you choose to contribute rather than doing the one thing you were designed to do.
The versatility of roles in NS1 is one of the huge things that makes you come back and play the game for years rather than weeks. The creative possibilities are one of the biggest reasons why NS1 is the defining experience and able to offer more than something as big and high quality as TF2 is.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i'm pretty sure ns2 gorge is just as varied, even buffed (especially in the support, healing, and artillery roles). they just lack the ability to build buildings. if they could drop hives and harvesters, i think they would be perfect.
<!--quoteo(post=2018443:date=Nov 10 2012, 07:51 PM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Nov 10 2012, 07:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2018443"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Meanwhile NS1 gorge is a damn funny mix of meatshield, healer, ranged support, builder and artillery support that can contribute to your average round in multitude of ways.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
True. I don't see how any of those roles are diminished in NS2 though, with the exception of building stuff. If you coordinate with the comm or another Gorge, you can even build effective forward bases and even make Hydras useful if you use them properly. I've seen that happen plenty of times already. You just can't single-handedly block off an entire side of the map until Marines have GL by building a wall of six Offense Chambers.
That being said I'm not saying the NS2 Gorge is perfect and doesn't need any more work. They obviously need more toys (which are sort of confirmed already) and I wouldn't mind seeing Hydras cost like 5 res and being that much more efficient, or something.
<!--quoteo(post=2018505:date=Nov 10 2012, 05:33 PM:name=snaga)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snaga @ Nov 10 2012, 05:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2018505"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That being said I'm not saying the NS2 Gorge is perfect and doesn't need any more work. They obviously need more toys (which are sort of confirmed already) and I wouldn't mind seeing Hydras cost like 5 res and being that much more efficient, or something.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Do not fear, Gorges are definitely getting more toys. Some are already in the works :) But large new features like that are not going to happen overnight, since we have to be a lot more careful now that the game is released, to make sure we really take the time to polish and test new gameplay features before releasing them to the public since we are not in Beta anymore.
Don't worry, the haters will modify the rules along the way so they can maintain/raise their frustration level. Of course, you are not releasing your patches and new content fast enough. If you do, it's still not fast enough, because you are not releasing it on a daily basis. And if you release new stuff on a daily basis, it's ###### as well, because the steps are too small and the polish is missing.
If I <i>wanted </i>to be disappointed, I could make up "reasons" on the go.
<!--quoteo(post=2016275:date=Nov 9 2012, 02:39 AM:name=antacid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (antacid @ Nov 9 2012, 02:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2016275"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There is a certain group of people who cling onto NS1 and consider anything that is a deviation to that to be a step backwards.
These people can play NS2C. But the rest of us are going to be playing NS2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> As I have said, this game fails at being a sequel as much as it fails at being a remake.
If the intent was to remake NS1 on a snazzy new engine, they completely screwed up too much stuff and changed the things that worked well, and overall dumbed-down the game too much for it to be NS1.
If the intent was to make a true sequel to NS2, they didn't put enough effort into new features and expanding the depth of the game and providing new hooks to really get old players interested again.
<!--quoteo(post=2018641:date=Nov 10 2012, 03:33 PM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Nov 10 2012, 03:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2018641"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As I have said, this game fails at being a sequel as much as it fails at being a remake.
If the intent was to remake NS1 on a snazzy new engine, they completely screwed up too much stuff and changed the things that worked well, and overall dumbed-down the game too much for it to be NS1.
If the intent was to make a true sequel to NS2, they didn't put enough effort into new features and expanding the depth of the game and providing new hooks to really get old players interested again.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2018549:date=Nov 10 2012, 10:05 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Nov 10 2012, 10:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2018549"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Do not fear, Gorges are definitely getting more toys. Some are already in the works :) But large new features like that are not going to happen overnight, since <b>we have to be a lot more careful now that the game is released, to make sure we really take the time to polish and test new gameplay features before releasing them to the public since we are not in Beta anymore. </b> --Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<3<3<3<3<3
can't wait for the new gorge features but I completely agree, let us see them when they're all shiny looking and ready to go :D
<!--quoteo(post=2018687:date=Nov 10 2012, 08:21 PM:name=Wheeee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wheeee @ Nov 10 2012, 08:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2018687"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->well, that's just like, your opinion, man.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Such is about the quality of a response to the endless wave of accusations of this game being void of interesting mechanics or actually being fun, or feeling balanced. Still, it beats the cliche responses from the handful of NS2 fanboys on this forum whose extent of discussion is 'hurl waves of furious insults and make this community look like ######'.
<!--quoteo(post=2018691:date=Nov 10 2012, 01:25 PM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Nov 10 2012, 01:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2018691"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Such is about the quality of a response to the endless wave of accusations of this game being void of interesting mechanics or actually being fun, or feeling balanced. Still, it beats the cliche responses from the handful of NS2 fanboys on this forum whose extent of discussion is 'hurl waves of furious insults and make this community look like ######'.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Everything you say suggests you think NS2 is beyond saving. So why stick around? Why continue to annoy those of us who don't have such a glorious vision of what the game should be? Please, really, you keep doing this and I don't know what motivates you.
<!--quoteo(post=2018482:date=Nov 10 2012, 10:18 AM:name=Wheeee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wheeee @ Nov 10 2012, 10:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2018482"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i'm pretty sure ns2 gorge is just as varied, even buffed (especially in the support, healing, and artillery roles). they just lack the ability to build buildings. if they could drop hives and harvesters, i think they would be perfect.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> then the alien comm has nothing to do
We could pick our upgrades like in ns1, but instead we have this convoluted system where they pick a hive, then drop a building, then research a single upgrade, all so we can have one of the three. It's completely backwards compared to NS1 but they needed some excuse for an alien comm
<!--quoteo(post=2018704:date=Nov 10 2012, 04:47 PM:name=dota girl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dota girl @ Nov 10 2012, 04:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2018704"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->then the alien comm has nothing to do
We could pick our upgrades like in ns1, but instead we have this convoluted system where they pick a hive, then drop a building, then research a single upgrade, all so we can have one of the three. It's completely backwards compared to NS1 but they needed some excuse for an alien comm<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that's not necessarily true. although i agree with the alien upgrade system, it's borked.
<!--quoteo(post=2018695:date=Nov 10 2012, 08:31 PM:name=Fappuchino)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fappuchino @ Nov 10 2012, 08:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2018695"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Everything you say suggests you think NS2 is beyond saving. So why stick around? Why continue to annoy those of us who don't have such a glorious vision of what the game should be? Please, really, you keep doing this and I don't know what motivates you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thinking about how good the game could be is more fun than actually playing the game itself. And it's only beyond saving if the devs don't want to put the effort into it. Depends on how they feel about changing the gameplay at this point in time and how 'locked in' they think the gameplay should be. NS2.0 / 3.0 had pretty radical changes in the game so I suppose it's possible. Or they could give me my refund and I'll go back to Off Topic.
AurOn2COOKIES! FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS!AustraliaJoin Date: 2012-01-13Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
THE game is far from what it could be, and it is far from fun.... however that doesn't mean it has a lack of moments which are memorable, and i must say, as much as the game stresses me out, it still brings me back. it could have gone better, ns2 was going down a dark canyon from build 180, uwe however managed to save the game for at least me and a few others on release, it just felt right. it can only get better or worse. not saying its good, but it's better then it has been.
<!--quoteo(post=2018718:date=Nov 10 2012, 02:01 PM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Nov 10 2012, 02:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2018718"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thinking about how good the game could be is more fun than actually playing the game itself. And it's only beyond saving if the devs don't want to put the effort into it. Depends on how they feel about changing the gameplay at this point in time and how 'locked in' they think the gameplay should be. NS2.0 / 3.0 had pretty radical changes in the game so I suppose it's possible. Or they could give me my refund and I'll go back to Off Topic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> So basically you're holding the biggest grudge in the world over 20-40 bucks?
<!--quoteo(post=2018795:date=Nov 10 2012, 10:17 PM:name=Fappuchino)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fappuchino @ Nov 10 2012, 10:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2018795"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So basically you're holding the biggest grudge in the world over 20-40 bucks?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I paid for it, I get to provide feedback on it. I know you and the rest of the tiny cadre of brown-nosers would love nothing more than to stick your head in the sand and 'LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU' away the criticism, but the only way the game is going to get better is to make the devs hear the complaints. Listening to sycophants and fanboys will only ever make a game worse.
My mind is absolutely blown at the ludicrous claims made in this post. This game has been out less than two weeks. The game is VERY playable, the game is pretty darn balanced and they have been incredibly communicative.
Let me ask everyone here who is spamming what needs to be changed and how so many of their design decisions are terrible, have you ever worked on video game ? Have you ever been responsible for designing, programming, polishing, balancing and packaging a game ? Most of the changes that are being requested here are changes that will take months given all the factors that need to be addressed before implementing. Meanwhile they are incredibly concerned with performance because it effects EVERYONE, not just those whose opinion of the game are negative.
To be honest, I've seen games shipped that were literally unplayable for a week some even a month after release. I've seen games that received one patch two weeks after its release and then never touched again despite there being game breaking elements in the game. And lastly I've seen games where developers made ginormous game changes without even a whisper to the community.
How bout this, for those who seem only content complaining about every facet of the game, go play something else. Come back in six months because, I know this is going to sound insane, the games not going to change over night. Be realistic and understanding. Take an honest look at what Unknown Worlds have given us. I know I could not tell you any other single game that provides the game play experience Natural Selection 2 does. So enjoy it and trust in the developers. Unlike everyone complaining here they have put ten years of their lives into this game. So before you have the audacity to claim that they have put anything but love into this project please be understanding and patient. Hell you waited ten years already I think you can wait a couple months.
<!--quoteo(post=2018802:date=Nov 10 2012, 03:28 PM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Nov 10 2012, 03:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2018802"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I paid for it, I get to provide feedback on it. I know you and the rest of the tiny cadre of brown-nosers would love nothing more than to stick your head in the sand and 'LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU' away the criticism, but the only way the game is going to get better is to make the devs hear the complaints. Listening to sycophants and fanboys will only ever make a game worse.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well given your post count, and the unchanging nature of your post, you're either really progressing, or you're really not.
<!--quoteo(post=2018805:date=Nov 10 2012, 10:31 PM:name=TimmahIsASaint)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TimmahIsASaint @ Nov 10 2012, 10:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2018805"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The game is VERY playable, the game is pretty darn balanced and they have been incredibly communicative.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Twitter isn't a stand-in for communication. Neither is the fact that they post more on the Steam forums than here. Neither are "Q&A" sessions that are using heavily filtered questions that have the most puerile answers with the most PR spin.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Let me ask everyone here who is spamming what needs to be changed and how so many of their design decisions are terrible, have you ever worked on video game ? Have you ever been responsible for designing, programming, polishing, balancing and packaging a game ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Irrelevant. Prior game design experience doesn't make the decision to <b>not</b> include a new alien lifeform any less stupid. Nor the decision to ship with <b>only six alien upgrades</b>. Or any of the other obvious bull****. Would you like me to make a list of decisions that were garbage on paper, and are just as garbage in practice?
- Shotguns doing normal damage has made them a hard-counter to everything. Don't even have to play the game to know that this would mess things up. - Flayra didn't like player suiciding to avoid parasite so it got nerfed in three distinct ways (removed by commander medkit, for free at armory, or just wait 30 seconds). Nothing was implemented to make up for this. - Simply looking at the numbers shows you that Xenocide is garbage and that players are punished for its use. Simply looking at the numbers also shows you that skulks cannot compete at all against W3/L3 marines. - Midgame alien direct combat lifeform was missing in NS1 and Fade was shoehorned into the role. They (rightly) nerfed Fade to be a midgame skulk, but never filled the void. Gameplay suffers now because of it. - Observatory hard-counters entire Shade hive and upgrades. Flayra then wonders why nobody uses Shade? SERIOUSLY? - Nerfing half the alien upgrades when they enter combat. What exactly did this achieve besides make them useless? - Marine sprint was originally in because they weren't going to get a phase gate. Phase gate came back. Marine sprint didn't go anywhere. - Hivesight was basically completely removed. I cannot even imagine what possible reason they gave at whatever meeting they had where this decision came from. Utterly baffling.
Things like 5-minute Onos can be forgiven, because often these things are symptoms of deeper problems. It's the top layer of the game, the tier 1 features that are problems. It's the obvious core game mechanics that we have that are just outright terrible decisions, either because of lack of playtesting, lack of listening to playtesters, or simply going the unfortunate route that other indy projects have gone before, where it's "MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY" and nobody can tell the lead design otherwise.
Then go make a better game, then go play a better game, then go do something constructive with your time. Guess what, just because your opinion of the game is negative doesn't mean you have to spam every thread with your OPINION.
I doubt if you met any one of the developers in person would you have the gall to say anything to any of them, but go ahead and hide behind your internet anonymity. To the rest of the forums you simply come off as a bitter prick who can do nothing but complain. I hope all the crying you're doing makes the purchase worth your money.
<!--quoteo(post=2018879:date=Nov 10 2012, 11:11 PM:name=TimmahIsASaint)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TimmahIsASaint @ Nov 10 2012, 11:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2018879"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Then go make a better game, then go play a better game, then go do something constructive with your time. Guess what, just because your opinion of the game is negative doesn't mean you have to spam every thread with your OPINION.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Except I don't. You seem to have confused the multitude of other negative posts with all being my own. I can see why, since the problems are so obvious any idiot was able to figure them out and came here to complain.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I doubt if you met any one of the developers in person would you have the gall to say anything to any of them, but go ahead and hide behind your internet anonymity. To the rest of the forums you simply come off as a bitter prick who can do nothing but complain. I hope all the crying you're doing makes the purchase worth your money.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Given my circumstances right now I literally have nothing better to do. And seeing you lemmings work yourselves into a frothy rage over hearing negative opinions about an extremely mediocre game that will probably lose 2/3rds of its playerbase within six months amuses me greatly.
By the way, I wouldn't say these things if I met them in person, but I wouldn't worship them like gods like you people do. We could probably have a very nice discussion about the game and why they did what they did. But the developers don't read the suggestions forum, never have and never will, and based on their 'communication' you'd think that they actually believe the game is totally flawless and there's nothing different they'd have done.
<!--quoteo(post=2018900:date=Nov 10 2012, 03:21 PM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Nov 10 2012, 03:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2018900"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Given my circumstances right now I literally have nothing better to do. And seeing you lemmings work yourselves into a frothy rage over hearing negative opinions about an extremely mediocre game that will probably lose 2/3rds of its playerbase within six months amuses me greatly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sorry you are in such a position and don't have the mental capacity to find anything better to do. Regardless I enjoy the game so I am going to defend it. Does that make me a "Raging Lemming?" No. I don't think the game is perfect. Very few are when they are released. Unlike you however I can be realistic and understanding of the teams efforts instead of just crying.
Nothing I say can dissuade your opinion or hate so I am done responding to your posts. You are so pessimistic and hateful that your posts have now devolved into attacking the games player base. I truly pity you.
I wonder how many of you go onto the Battlefield 3 forums, or the forum for any other game, really, and express your feigned indignation at the disparaging remarks posted there. I'm going to guess... you don't.
So please, tell me, what is so special about THIS game that you've formed such a completely irrational, pathetic emotional attachment to it that demands you post moral outrage at everyone with a negative outlook on the future of the game? What have the developers done that, in your mind, frees them from being the subject of criticism for a flawed game that is a regression of their previous work done on NS1? And what exactly do you and your ilk think telling the dozens of people who have voiced complaints to "go play a different game" is going to do besides make this community look even ****tier than it already is?
Hey, instead of answering those questions, do what you clowns always do and instead of posting just ONE SINGLE SHRED OF RATIONAL DISCOURSE, post some more ****ing youtube videos and dismissive one-liners. Obfuscating the point instead of discussing what should be worked on will surely help them focus their efforts into the key areas that need it most to help the game be less of a turd, for sure!
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You are so pessimistic and hateful that your posts have now devolved into attacking the games player base.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Most of you apes deserve nothing less. I can count the number of people who actually respond to criticism on this forum with discussion on one finger. If you go through my post history you'll see I degrade farther and farther, because people like you, tarquin, snaga, just post sheer hatred and ignorance in response.
If this game was so great, you'd have an easier time defending the flawed design, bad concepts, and some areas of just downright terrible gameplay. But you don't, so I assume you can't.
<!--quoteo(post=2018930:date=Nov 10 2012, 03:39 PM:name=TimmahIsASaint)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TimmahIsASaint @ Nov 10 2012, 03:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2018930"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm sorry you are in such a position and don't have the mental capacity to find anything better to do. Regardless I enjoy the game so I am going to defend it. Does that make me a "Raging Lemming?" No. I don't think the game is perfect. Very few are when they are released. Unlike you however I can be realistic and understanding of the teams efforts instead of just crying.
Nothing I say can dissuade your opinion or hate so I am done responding to your posts. You are so pessimistic and hateful that your posts have now devolved into attacking the games player base. I truly pity you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They've been selling this game for 3 years now. Just saying.
<!--quoteo(post=2018931:date=Nov 10 2012, 04:41 PM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Nov 10 2012, 04:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2018931"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I wonder how many of you go onto the Battlefield 3 forums, or the forum for any other game, really, and express your feigned indignation at the disparaging remarks posted there. I'm going to guess... you don't.
So please, tell me, what is so special about THIS game that you've formed such a completely irrational, pathetic emotional attachment to it that demands you post moral outrage at everyone with a negative outlook on the future of the game? What have the developers done that, in your mind, frees them from being the subject of criticism for a flawed game that is a regression of their previous work done on NS1? And what exactly do you and your ilk think telling the dozens of people who have voiced complaints to "go play a different game" is going to do besides make this community look even ****tier than it already is?
Hey, instead of answering those questions, do what you clowns always do and instead of posting just ONE SINGLE SHRED OF RATIONAL DISCOURSE, post some more ****ing youtube videos and dismissive one-liners. Obfuscating the point instead of discussing what should be worked on will surely help them focus their efforts into the key areas that need it most to help the game be less of a turd, for sure!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, compare us to the Battlefield 3 forums, where people throw personal insults every time they come up with a "brilliant" solution to fix and balance the game. There are many of these kinds of people with popular games.
<b>You</b> are like someone took a piece of that unreasonable loud turd, and placed it in this relatively reasonable and modest community.
Come on guys, are you really saying that you don't see the obvious bias that pervades these forums? Anyone that comes in and raises legitimate points of criticism against the game immediately gets a bunch of fanboys telling him to stop playing and leave the community. It's kind of ridiculous.
You'd think if this game was so great they'd have an easy time shredding the areas of argument.
Like I said, I've only seen one defender of the game who actually does argue his position. I forget his name. His sig is centered and his name has Gorge in it. I don't agree with him, but I respect him for putting effort into his posts.
Here's a repost of what ended up being my review of the game. It's just PACKED with negativity and insults! Oh wait, it's not.
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->His reasons are wrong, but I think his score is right... but if the reasons are wrong, what's the point? I would give NS2 a 'C'. Not C+, and maybe a bit too close to C-, but the point is it's very, very average.
Half the game - the aliens - doesn't show any imagination or innovation, and has tons of totally unused potential. Except for the Khamm, the aliens are just vague clones of what NS1 had. It's been 10 years, and the only new feature of the alien players is a totally useless Fade ability. Seriously? Do you not understand just how outrageously creative you can be with the alien concept? Overall, the aliens *lost* more features than they gained. We're missing at LEAST three upgrade abilities. Gorge lost buildings and gained useless pres dumps, and lost webs as well. Fade lost Metabolize, the one time he could actually use it, and acid rocket, which was pretty important for marine base-breaking. Onos lost devour, and charge was severely neutered. Even Xenocide now punishes the player more than it punishes the enemies you use it against. Hive fast-travel is gone. Hivesight is almost completely missing with NO reasonable explanation as to why.
The other half of the game - the marines - is dumbed-down, streamlined, shallow, and as a result, dull. It doesn't take any risks with the players, and all you need to succeed is a child's level of understand of group tactics, the ability to play any other FPS game, and a rudimentary understanding of the game concepts. And the ability to hold 'shift' and 'e'. Tons of design in the game was obviously deliberately done to pander to marine enjoyment over alien. Parasite, map lighting, the cost of pres items, full damage while blinking, shotguns with no damage reduction against armor / structures, infinitely recoverable guns, armories that restore a marine to full power in seconds, faster respawns, free upgrades they get straight from the IP... I honestly don't even understand how the aliens EVER win when you put up the list of massive dumbing-down that occurred just for the benefit of marine players. Aliens lose a research structure (which takes about three seconds to kill with a shotgun) and they have to re-research the upgrades it had. Marines got sprint for absolutely no god damn good reason.
Then there's the 'dark matter' of the game - the spooky ether that it exists in that holds it all together. The power node system for marines is entirely lacking and imposes no serious limits to the marine commander's reach. He can still drop structures and they can still be built alongside the power node to save time, he can scan, drop assistance, all of this anywhere. On the other hand, aliens need to tres dump to expand anywhere, and they can't use any of their abilities anywhere except on the infestation, which is easily negated by any marine willing to spend two seconds chopping at it with an axe. Maps are confusing and lack important visual setpieces to help people orient themselves more quickly. Much of the design just lacks polish, like environmental effects and atmospheric improvements - with a few exceptions, every room is basically just a sterile, static chamber to do combat in, with lights that might turn red sometimes.
The marine team has nothing but a giant pile of hard counters, and I can't think of a single hard counter the aliens have, except maybe the actual presence of infestation on building placement. The even still have the siege cannon - now in mobile format - and it's probably the single most superfluous item I've ever seen in a video game. A siege breaker? For what, the massive wall of three hydras you can't just axe to death? Why not just use the OTHER siege cannon - not the grenade launcher - but the handheld siege cannon that nukes structures for hundreds of points of damage per shot? Yeah, the shotgun, that one.
Part of the problem is this obsession with minimalism, and this faulty belief that less is always more. We don't have any new lifeforms because it was easy to try to crowbar in an excuse about how 'new lifeform x would invalidate lifeform y'. We don't even have the HMG anymore because it was too much like an LMG and they didn't want to replace anything. There is a big difference between have ONE gun, and having 84 guns like BF3. People like choices. Less is more when you do it behind the scenes and the player can't tell you're doing it. It is NOT more when it's so painfully obvious that aliens can use a 6th lifeform, but didn't get one. You will never sell more copies of a game by showing off your lack of features. Choices leads to variety, variety leads to replayability, replayability leads to enjoyment, and enjoyment leads to sales.
The other problem I see is this desire to simply make 'NS1.5'. Many concepts were tried in beta, most were thrown out instead of turned into workable solutions, and trying to pander too much to the starry-eyed nostalgic NS1 vets. Sequels are supposed to build up a new game, not just redo the previous one with some better graphics, except worse because you removed a ton of stuff and screwed the design so badly.
The final cherry is just the baffling amount of bull###### in this game. A jetpack and shotgun is arguably the most powerful marine weapon. It costs a measly 30 pres. Flayra didn't want "hidden bonuses" but left in the Arms Lab upgrades which does nothing but give hidden bonuses to every marine, everywhere, at no cost to themselves. We hear that nothing in the game should completely counter another thing, except the marines have a structure that completely negates a full 33% of the alien tech tree. And it does it anywhere on the map the commander wants it to.
When you think of the military, you think of organization, tactical efficiency, and squadwork. You get squads in Battlefield to help you work together. You get squads in PS2 to help you work together. In NS2, marines have almost no need of teamwork except to multiply firepower and stop someone from getting their ass bit off while building.
When you think of violent, killer aliens infesting things in space, stalking humans and killing them, you think of the Predator and Aliens. They're efficient killers, soloists, and fiercly independent and vicious. In NS2, aliens are entirely dependent on this bizarre "class-balance" system, like it's Battlefield, where I need the engineer to shoot tanks, the assault to revive, the sniper to... um... and the support to hand out ammo and suppress. You know, THINGS HUMANS DO IN MILITARY GAMES. Why are the ALIENS the ones that require all kinds of gimmicky buffs to each other, spread across several classes? Why do the ALIENS need the combined arms and teamwork?
When you think of humans going into battle against space bugs, you think of Ripley, Hicks, Johnny Rico... we're humans. We empathize with humans. The TSA is not the Red Army. Why are HUMANS considered disposable and easy to replace (evidenced by their lack of downtime, cheap things they can buy with pres, recoverable weapons, and the effectiveness of the vanilla marine with Arms Lab upgrades)? These people have lives, families... every space horror movie revolves around a small group of humans desperately fighting for survival. We didn't enjoy Aliens because there were waves of Colonial Marines pouring in to replace those that were lost.
<a href="http://www.ratemoviescenes.com/index.php?mode=news&id=12" target="_blank">Wasn't this the inspiration for Natural-Selection?</a> I was going to post the air vent scene from Alien, but I can't seem to find a clip of it.
When you think of aliens attacking humans... screw it, you know exactly where this is going, because you know exactly what I'm talking about. Instead, aliens are punished with long deaths. They're punished with useless spawn units. They're punished with expensive lifeforms of questionable use.
This is just completely ###### backwards and I just don't get it. It honestly feels more like the ALIENS are the ones who are being invaded, and I should sympathize with them. They're so totally outclassed by the marines I don't even know how they ever win - or is the Onos just that much of a crutch?
NS2 is a good looking game, and is well done for such a small indy team, but that doesn't get you a free pass. Given what we lost from NS1, what we failed to gain in NS2, and a continuation of the questionable game direction that started in NS2.0 and only got worse in NS3.0 (where marines became soloist monsters)... this is just very, very average. It doesn't do enough with what it has, it cut way too much and didn't take enough risks in some attempt to appeal to what is a very small minority of nostalgic NS1 competitive vets, that it just ended up an extremely lackluster game overall.
What I feel like I got with NS2 was a steak dinner that had a great picture on the front of the menu, and I got a piece of meat cooked well, without any potatoes or vegetables along with it. It's the bare minimum of what was needed to be considered a steak dinner.
The only question is, is it too late to send it back to the kitchen to get them to do it right?
And that's all I've got to say about that.<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Comments
Yes, it is fun. And no, it's not the only thing Gorges can do.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think "TF2 pulled it off, it's fine" is one of the worst ways you can go with NS2. TF2 is an amazingly well designed game, built on a solid engine and AAA level production values. You don't want to go competing with TF2, it's a heavyweight in it's own style of play.
Where TF2 is kind of disappointing, or at least less interesting - less than NS1 for example - is that the roles are kind of strict and limited. A medic is a healer all round long, anything else is kind of last resort. Meanwhile NS1 gorge is a damn funny mix of meatshield, healer, ranged support, builder and artillery support that can contribute to your average round in multitude of ways. Every round you've got options on how you choose to contribute rather than doing the one thing you were designed to do.
The versatility of roles in NS1 is one of the huge things that makes you come back and play the game for years rather than weeks. The creative possibilities are one of the biggest reasons why NS1 is the defining experience and able to offer more than something as big and high quality as TF2 is.
Where TF2 is kind of disappointing, or at least less interesting - less than NS1 for example - is that the roles are kind of strict and limited. A medic is a healer all round long, anything else is kind of last resort. Meanwhile NS1 gorge is a damn funny mix of meatshield, healer, ranged support, builder and artillery support that can contribute to your average round in multitude of ways. Every round you've got options on how you choose to contribute rather than doing the one thing you were designed to do.
The versatility of roles in NS1 is one of the huge things that makes you come back and play the game for years rather than weeks. The creative possibilities are one of the biggest reasons why NS1 is the defining experience and able to offer more than something as big and high quality as TF2 is.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i'm pretty sure ns2 gorge is just as varied, even buffed (especially in the support, healing, and artillery roles). they just lack the ability to build buildings. if they could drop hives and harvesters, i think they would be perfect.
True. I don't see how any of those roles are diminished in NS2 though, with the exception of building stuff. If you coordinate with the comm or another Gorge, you can even build effective forward bases and even make Hydras useful if you use them properly. I've seen that happen plenty of times already. You just can't single-handedly block off an entire side of the map until Marines have GL by building a wall of six Offense Chambers.
That being said I'm not saying the NS2 Gorge is perfect and doesn't need any more work. They obviously need more toys (which are sort of confirmed already) and I wouldn't mind seeing Hydras cost like 5 res and being that much more efficient, or something.
Do not fear, Gorges are definitely getting more toys. Some are already in the works :) But large new features like that are not going to happen overnight, since we have to be a lot more careful now that the game is released, to make sure we really take the time to polish and test new gameplay features before releasing them to the public since we are not in Beta anymore.
--Cory
Of course, you are not releasing your patches and new content fast enough.
If you do, it's still not fast enough, because you are not releasing it on a daily basis.
And if you release new stuff on a daily basis, it's ###### as well, because the steps are too small and the polish is missing.
If I <i>wanted </i>to be disappointed, I could make up "reasons" on the go.
These people can play NS2C. But the rest of us are going to be playing NS2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As I have said, this game fails at being a sequel as much as it fails at being a remake.
If the intent was to remake NS1 on a snazzy new engine, they completely screwed up too much stuff and changed the things that worked well, and overall dumbed-down the game too much for it to be NS1.
If the intent was to make a true sequel to NS2, they didn't put enough effort into new features and expanding the depth of the game and providing new hooks to really get old players interested again.
If the intent was to remake NS1 on a snazzy new engine, they completely screwed up too much stuff and changed the things that worked well, and overall dumbed-down the game too much for it to be NS1.
If the intent was to make a true sequel to NS2, they didn't put enough effort into new features and expanding the depth of the game and providing new hooks to really get old players interested again.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
well, that's just like, your opinion, man.
</b>
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<3<3<3<3<3
can't wait for the new gorge features but I completely agree, let us see them when they're all shiny looking and ready to go :D
Such is about the quality of a response to the endless wave of accusations of this game being void of interesting mechanics or actually being fun, or feeling balanced. Still, it beats the cliche responses from the handful of NS2 fanboys on this forum whose extent of discussion is 'hurl waves of furious insults and make this community look like ######'.
Everything you say suggests you think NS2 is beyond saving. So why stick around? Why continue to annoy those of us who don't have such a glorious vision of what the game should be? Please, really, you keep doing this and I don't know what motivates you.
then the alien comm has nothing to do
We could pick our upgrades like in ns1, but instead we have this convoluted system where they pick a hive, then drop a building, then research a single upgrade, all so we can have one of the three. It's completely backwards compared to NS1 but they needed some excuse for an alien comm
We could pick our upgrades like in ns1, but instead we have this convoluted system where they pick a hive, then drop a building, then research a single upgrade, all so we can have one of the three. It's completely backwards compared to NS1 but they needed some excuse for an alien comm<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that's not necessarily true. although i agree with the alien upgrade system, it's borked.
Thinking about how good the game could be is more fun than actually playing the game itself. And it's only beyond saving if the devs don't want to put the effort into it. Depends on how they feel about changing the gameplay at this point in time and how 'locked in' they think the gameplay should be. NS2.0 / 3.0 had pretty radical changes in the game so I suppose it's possible. Or they could give me my refund and I'll go back to Off Topic.
So basically you're holding the biggest grudge in the world over 20-40 bucks?
I paid for it, I get to provide feedback on it. I know you and the rest of the tiny cadre of brown-nosers would love nothing more than to stick your head in the sand and 'LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU' away the criticism, but the only way the game is going to get better is to make the devs hear the complaints. Listening to sycophants and fanboys will only ever make a game worse.
Let me ask everyone here who is spamming what needs to be changed and how so many of their design decisions are terrible, have you ever worked on video game ? Have you ever been responsible for designing, programming, polishing, balancing and packaging a game ? Most of the changes that are being requested here are changes that will take months given all the factors that need to be addressed before implementing. Meanwhile they are incredibly concerned with performance because it effects EVERYONE, not just those whose opinion of the game are negative.
To be honest, I've seen games shipped that were literally unplayable for a week some even a month after release. I've seen games that received one patch two weeks after its release and then never touched again despite there being game breaking elements in the game. And lastly I've seen games where developers made ginormous game changes without even a whisper to the community.
How bout this, for those who seem only content complaining about every facet of the game, go play something else. Come back in six months because, I know this is going to sound insane, the games not going to change over night. Be realistic and understanding. Take an honest look at what Unknown Worlds have given us. I know I could not tell you any other single game that provides the game play experience Natural Selection 2 does. So enjoy it and trust in the developers. Unlike everyone complaining here they have put ten years of their lives into this game. So before you have the audacity to claim that they have put anything but love into this project please be understanding and patient. Hell you waited ten years already I think you can wait a couple months.
Well given your post count, and the unchanging nature of your post, you're either really progressing, or you're really not.
Twitter isn't a stand-in for communication. Neither is the fact that they post more on the Steam forums than here. Neither are "Q&A" sessions that are using heavily filtered questions that have the most puerile answers with the most PR spin.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Let me ask everyone here who is spamming what needs to be changed and how so many of their design decisions are terrible, have you ever worked on video game ? Have you ever been responsible for designing, programming, polishing, balancing and packaging a game ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Irrelevant. Prior game design experience doesn't make the decision to <b>not</b> include a new alien lifeform any less stupid. Nor the decision to ship with <b>only six alien upgrades</b>. Or any of the other obvious bull****. Would you like me to make a list of decisions that were garbage on paper, and are just as garbage in practice?
- Shotguns doing normal damage has made them a hard-counter to everything. Don't even have to play the game to know that this would mess things up.
- Flayra didn't like player suiciding to avoid parasite so it got nerfed in three distinct ways (removed by commander medkit, for free at armory, or just wait 30 seconds). Nothing was implemented to make up for this.
- Simply looking at the numbers shows you that Xenocide is garbage and that players are punished for its use. Simply looking at the numbers also shows you that skulks cannot compete at all against W3/L3 marines.
- Midgame alien direct combat lifeform was missing in NS1 and Fade was shoehorned into the role. They (rightly) nerfed Fade to be a midgame skulk, but never filled the void. Gameplay suffers now because of it.
- Observatory hard-counters entire Shade hive and upgrades. Flayra then wonders why nobody uses Shade? SERIOUSLY?
- Nerfing half the alien upgrades when they enter combat. What exactly did this achieve besides make them useless?
- Marine sprint was originally in because they weren't going to get a phase gate. Phase gate came back. Marine sprint didn't go anywhere.
- Hivesight was basically completely removed. I cannot even imagine what possible reason they gave at whatever meeting they had where this decision came from. Utterly baffling.
Things like 5-minute Onos can be forgiven, because often these things are symptoms of deeper problems. It's the top layer of the game, the tier 1 features that are problems. It's the obvious core game mechanics that we have that are just outright terrible decisions, either because of lack of playtesting, lack of listening to playtesters, or simply going the unfortunate route that other indy projects have gone before, where it's "MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY" and nobody can tell the lead design otherwise.
Then go make a better game, then go play a better game, then go do something constructive with your time. Guess what, just because your opinion of the game is negative doesn't mean you have to spam every thread with your OPINION.
I doubt if you met any one of the developers in person would you have the gall to say anything to any of them, but go ahead and hide behind your internet anonymity. To the rest of the forums you simply come off as a bitter prick who can do nothing but complain. I hope all the crying you're doing makes the purchase worth your money.
Except I don't. You seem to have confused the multitude of other negative posts with all being my own. I can see why, since the problems are so obvious any idiot was able to figure them out and came here to complain.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I doubt if you met any one of the developers in person would you have the gall to say anything to any of them, but go ahead and hide behind your internet anonymity. To the rest of the forums you simply come off as a bitter prick who can do nothing but complain. I hope all the crying you're doing makes the purchase worth your money.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Given my circumstances right now I literally have nothing better to do. And seeing you lemmings work yourselves into a frothy rage over hearing negative opinions about an extremely mediocre game that will probably lose 2/3rds of its playerbase within six months amuses me greatly.
By the way, I wouldn't say these things if I met them in person, but I wouldn't worship them like gods like you people do. We could probably have a very nice discussion about the game and why they did what they did. But the developers don't read the suggestions forum, never have and never will, and based on their 'communication' you'd think that they actually believe the game is totally flawless and there's nothing different they'd have done.
I'm sorry you are in such a position and don't have the mental capacity to find anything better to do. Regardless I enjoy the game so I am going to defend it. Does that make me a "Raging Lemming?" No. I don't think the game is perfect. Very few are when they are released. Unlike you however I can be realistic and understanding of the teams efforts instead of just crying.
Nothing I say can dissuade your opinion or hate so I am done responding to your posts. You are so pessimistic and hateful that your posts have now devolved into attacking the games player base. I truly pity you.
So please, tell me, what is so special about THIS game that you've formed such a completely irrational, pathetic emotional attachment to it that demands you post moral outrage at everyone with a negative outlook on the future of the game? What have the developers done that, in your mind, frees them from being the subject of criticism for a flawed game that is a regression of their previous work done on NS1? And what exactly do you and your ilk think telling the dozens of people who have voiced complaints to "go play a different game" is going to do besides make this community look even ****tier than it already is?
Hey, instead of answering those questions, do what you clowns always do and instead of posting just ONE SINGLE SHRED OF RATIONAL DISCOURSE, post some more ****ing youtube videos and dismissive one-liners. Obfuscating the point instead of discussing what should be worked on will surely help them focus their efforts into the key areas that need it most to help the game be less of a turd, for sure!
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You are so pessimistic and hateful that your posts have now devolved into attacking the games player base.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Most of you apes deserve nothing less. I can count the number of people who actually respond to criticism on this forum with discussion on one finger. If you go through my post history you'll see I degrade farther and farther, because people like you, tarquin, snaga, just post sheer hatred and ignorance in response.
If this game was so great, you'd have an easier time defending the flawed design, bad concepts, and some areas of just downright terrible gameplay. But you don't, so I assume you can't.
Nothing I say can dissuade your opinion or hate so I am done responding to your posts. You are so pessimistic and hateful that your posts have now devolved into attacking the games player base. I truly pity you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They've been selling this game for 3 years now. Just saying.
So please, tell me, what is so special about THIS game that you've formed such a completely irrational, pathetic emotional attachment to it that demands you post moral outrage at everyone with a negative outlook on the future of the game? What have the developers done that, in your mind, frees them from being the subject of criticism for a flawed game that is a regression of their previous work done on NS1? And what exactly do you and your ilk think telling the dozens of people who have voiced complaints to "go play a different game" is going to do besides make this community look even ****tier than it already is?
Hey, instead of answering those questions, do what you clowns always do and instead of posting just ONE SINGLE SHRED OF RATIONAL DISCOURSE, post some more ****ing youtube videos and dismissive one-liners. Obfuscating the point instead of discussing what should be worked on will surely help them focus their efforts into the key areas that need it most to help the game be less of a turd, for sure!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, compare us to the Battlefield 3 forums, where people throw personal insults every time they come up with a "brilliant" solution to fix and balance the game. There are many of these kinds of people with popular games.
<b>You</b> are like someone took a piece of that unreasonable loud turd, and placed it in this relatively reasonable and modest community.
Go do something else with your time.
Like I said, I've only seen one defender of the game who actually does argue his position. I forget his name. His sig is centered and his name has Gorge in it. I don't agree with him, but I respect him for putting effort into his posts.
Here's a repost of what ended up being my review of the game. It's just PACKED with negativity and insults! Oh wait, it's not.
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->His reasons are wrong, but I think his score is right... but if the reasons are wrong, what's the point? I would give NS2 a 'C'. Not C+, and maybe a bit too close to C-, but the point is it's very, very average.
Half the game - the aliens - doesn't show any imagination or innovation, and has tons of totally unused potential. Except for the Khamm, the aliens are just vague clones of what NS1 had. It's been 10 years, and the only new feature of the alien players is a totally useless Fade ability. Seriously? Do you not understand just how outrageously creative you can be with the alien concept? Overall, the aliens *lost* more features than they gained. We're missing at LEAST three upgrade abilities. Gorge lost buildings and gained useless pres dumps, and lost webs as well. Fade lost Metabolize, the one time he could actually use it, and acid rocket, which was pretty important for marine base-breaking. Onos lost devour, and charge was severely neutered. Even Xenocide now punishes the player more than it punishes the enemies you use it against. Hive fast-travel is gone. Hivesight is almost completely missing with NO reasonable explanation as to why.
The other half of the game - the marines - is dumbed-down, streamlined, shallow, and as a result, dull. It doesn't take any risks with the players, and all you need to succeed is a child's level of understand of group tactics, the ability to play any other FPS game, and a rudimentary understanding of the game concepts. And the ability to hold 'shift' and 'e'. Tons of design in the game was obviously deliberately done to pander to marine enjoyment over alien. Parasite, map lighting, the cost of pres items, full damage while blinking, shotguns with no damage reduction against armor / structures, infinitely recoverable guns, armories that restore a marine to full power in seconds, faster respawns, free upgrades they get straight from the IP... I honestly don't even understand how the aliens EVER win when you put up the list of massive dumbing-down that occurred just for the benefit of marine players. Aliens lose a research structure (which takes about three seconds to kill with a shotgun) and they have to re-research the upgrades it had. Marines got sprint for absolutely no god damn good reason.
Then there's the 'dark matter' of the game - the spooky ether that it exists in that holds it all together. The power node system for marines is entirely lacking and imposes no serious limits to the marine commander's reach. He can still drop structures and they can still be built alongside the power node to save time, he can scan, drop assistance, all of this anywhere. On the other hand, aliens need to tres dump to expand anywhere, and they can't use any of their abilities anywhere except on the infestation, which is easily negated by any marine willing to spend two seconds chopping at it with an axe. Maps are confusing and lack important visual setpieces to help people orient themselves more quickly. Much of the design just lacks polish, like environmental effects and atmospheric improvements - with a few exceptions, every room is basically just a sterile, static chamber to do combat in, with lights that might turn red sometimes.
The marine team has nothing but a giant pile of hard counters, and I can't think of a single hard counter the aliens have, except maybe the actual presence of infestation on building placement. The even still have the siege cannon - now in mobile format - and it's probably the single most superfluous item I've ever seen in a video game. A siege breaker? For what, the massive wall of three hydras you can't just axe to death? Why not just use the OTHER siege cannon - not the grenade launcher - but the handheld siege cannon that nukes structures for hundreds of points of damage per shot? Yeah, the shotgun, that one.
Part of the problem is this obsession with minimalism, and this faulty belief that less is always more. We don't have any new lifeforms because it was easy to try to crowbar in an excuse about how 'new lifeform x would invalidate lifeform y'. We don't even have the HMG anymore because it was too much like an LMG and they didn't want to replace anything. There is a big difference between have ONE gun, and having 84 guns like BF3. People like choices. Less is more when you do it behind the scenes and the player can't tell you're doing it. It is NOT more when it's so painfully obvious that aliens can use a 6th lifeform, but didn't get one. You will never sell more copies of a game by showing off your lack of features. Choices leads to variety, variety leads to replayability, replayability leads to enjoyment, and enjoyment leads to sales.
The other problem I see is this desire to simply make 'NS1.5'. Many concepts were tried in beta, most were thrown out instead of turned into workable solutions, and trying to pander too much to the starry-eyed nostalgic NS1 vets. Sequels are supposed to build up a new game, not just redo the previous one with some better graphics, except worse because you removed a ton of stuff and screwed the design so badly.
The final cherry is just the baffling amount of bull###### in this game. A jetpack and shotgun is arguably the most powerful marine weapon. It costs a measly 30 pres. Flayra didn't want "hidden bonuses" but left in the Arms Lab upgrades which does nothing but give hidden bonuses to every marine, everywhere, at no cost to themselves. We hear that nothing in the game should completely counter another thing, except the marines have a structure that completely negates a full 33% of the alien tech tree. And it does it anywhere on the map the commander wants it to.
When you think of the military, you think of organization, tactical efficiency, and squadwork. You get squads in Battlefield to help you work together. You get squads in PS2 to help you work together. In NS2, marines have almost no need of teamwork except to multiply firepower and stop someone from getting their ass bit off while building.
When you think of violent, killer aliens infesting things in space, stalking humans and killing them, you think of the Predator and Aliens. They're efficient killers, soloists, and fiercly independent and vicious. In NS2, aliens are entirely dependent on this bizarre "class-balance" system, like it's Battlefield, where I need the engineer to shoot tanks, the assault to revive, the sniper to... um... and the support to hand out ammo and suppress. You know, THINGS HUMANS DO IN MILITARY GAMES. Why are the ALIENS the ones that require all kinds of gimmicky buffs to each other, spread across several classes? Why do the ALIENS need the combined arms and teamwork?
When you think of humans going into battle against space bugs, you think of Ripley, Hicks, Johnny Rico... we're humans. We empathize with humans. The TSA is not the Red Army. Why are HUMANS considered disposable and easy to replace (evidenced by their lack of downtime, cheap things they can buy with pres, recoverable weapons, and the effectiveness of the vanilla marine with Arms Lab upgrades)? These people have lives, families... every space horror movie revolves around a small group of humans desperately fighting for survival. We didn't enjoy Aliens because there were waves of Colonial Marines pouring in to replace those that were lost.
<a href="http://www.ratemoviescenes.com/index.php?mode=news&id=12" target="_blank">Wasn't this the inspiration for Natural-Selection?</a> I was going to post the air vent scene from Alien, but I can't seem to find a clip of it.
When you think of aliens attacking humans... screw it, you know exactly where this is going, because you know exactly what I'm talking about. Instead, aliens are punished with long deaths. They're punished with useless spawn units. They're punished with expensive lifeforms of questionable use.
This is just completely ###### backwards and I just don't get it. It honestly feels more like the ALIENS are the ones who are being invaded, and I should sympathize with them. They're so totally outclassed by the marines I don't even know how they ever win - or is the Onos just that much of a crutch?
NS2 is a good looking game, and is well done for such a small indy team, but that doesn't get you a free pass. Given what we lost from NS1, what we failed to gain in NS2, and a continuation of the questionable game direction that started in NS2.0 and only got worse in NS3.0 (where marines became soloist monsters)... this is just very, very average. It doesn't do enough with what it has, it cut way too much and didn't take enough risks in some attempt to appeal to what is a very small minority of nostalgic NS1 competitive vets, that it just ended up an extremely lackluster game overall.
What I feel like I got with NS2 was a steak dinner that had a great picture on the front of the menu, and I got a piece of meat cooked well, without any potatoes or vegetables along with it. It's the bare minimum of what was needed to be considered a steak dinner.
The only question is, is it too late to send it back to the kitchen to get them to do it right?
And that's all I've got to say about that.<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->