What do I do when the marine jumps?
guitarxe
Join Date: 2012-11-02 Member: 166148Members
Join Date: 2012-11-02 Member: 166148Members
I have a very hard time figuring out how to properly eat marines as a skulk. I run at them, start biting, but then they jump and I lose sight of them. So I start looking around to see where they are and then by the time I see them they kill me. But thing is when I play marine and I jump I'm not jumping very high, so it's strange that when I'm skulk and the marine jumps they go out of my view...
Anyway, what do I do when they jump, how to properly counter that?
Anyway, what do I do when they jump, how to properly counter that?
Comments
P.S. Also, try to time your bites to when you'll actually bite. Don't just hold bite button.
Anyway, what do I do when they jump, how to properly counter that?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uhh your doing it wrong. Your supposed to QQ about Skulks being underpowered not ask how to improve! xP
But yeah it comes with time and general sense. Stay away from running in a straight line and if you can, get to the ceiling and immediately jump down it is incredibly disorientating for marines.
This will cause you to become much MUCH harder to hit, as well as the marine not being lost in LoS because if you are making passes at him instead of just standing and biting he probably wont move around too much.
But yeah it comes with time and general sense. Stay away from running in a straight line and if you can, get to the ceiling and immediately jump down it is incredibly disorientating for marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well.. I tried doing that cause people in game said run on cielings and keep jumping on walls, but... you're right it's very disorienting for me. Maybe I should try another alien...
Complex answer: Nag uwe to fix collision, reduce marine air control and improve skulk movement.
Complex answer: Nag uwe to fix collision, reduce marine air control and improve skulk movement.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good advise here...the angle slightly up takes a little to get used to but makes tracking the marine a little easier and should give you a bit more of a chance to work out where they are going.
Issue is as elodea's indicating with collision and marines have better air control that skulks, you just feel more agile jumping around to avoid a skulk than you do as a skulk trying to bite the marine.
I believe part of it is that marines have no ramp up on strafing but skulks still do (dont believe thats changed) which seems silly given the buff it give your in melee combat.
Complex answer: Nag uwe to fix collision, reduce marine air control and improve skulk movement.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or the simple solution to the complex answer, play NS1, high framerate instead of high framerape, hitreg instead of ######reg, collision detection instead of nollision detection and movement instead of gluevement.
Anyway, OT, it really comes down to practice and keeping your cool. And yeah, aiming up a bit helps.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwL9bWq-En8" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwL9bWq-En8</a>
Don't jump around in his face madly to make up the height difference for his jumps, I use to do this. It just makes you easier to hit, instead just aim upwards at an angle like others have already said.
play skulk and do what the annoying skulk did versus you.
that's how you learn.
play skulk and do what the annoying skulk did versus you.
that's how you learn.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would if there weren't already three people standing in the Marine portal every round, because being a marine is twice the fun, three times less frustrating, and four times more likely to win.
As much as some people feel marine movement needs to be nerfed to reduce dodging capability (i'm not one of them), this statement is so far out of the realm of being true. Skulks can hop all over the place superfast. Marines can jump once, at base non-sprint speed (pretty slow), and the next jump is like jumping out of quicksand (unless you're jumping up something). There is no way that a marine is more agile in close combat than a skulk. Their dodging capabilities might need nerfing, but in no way are they more agile than skulks.
In my opinion, at best marines have only a very limited ability to dodge. The only thing that would make it any harder for marines to dodge (apart from fixing collision) is to glue their feet to the floor and not allow them to jump at all.
haha!
i felt the same for the first day, but day 2 was different. i'm pretty decent for a pub player, knowing basic strategy from dabbling with SC and having 10 years of FPS experience under my belt, plus using voice comms and therefore an asset to whichever team i'm on. therefore i have a >50% win rate no matter what side i choose and consequently find that alien and marine are equally enjoyable.
at least in european servers, voice comms pub players are already a great asset because they're so rare. so many non-english natives (and even a lot of english natives) are entirely lacking confidence in their speech, so they just remain mute. NS2 is more reliant on coordination than most games, especially aliens.
it angers me that some people whine about aliens being underpowered when they themselves don't make an effort to use voice comms. personally i feel that if someone isn't prepared to use voice comms, then they should either stop their complaining or find a noob/solo-friendly game to play.
Because they are underpowered. The problem that's been raised is that people somehow expect Aliens to have to <b>outplay</b> the marines in order to simply <i>compete</i> with them.
If marines don't use voice comm, not much is lost. The commander can still order them around and there isn't a lot they can do to interact with each other anyway. They've got a sweet minimap and can see everyone and know where to go.
If aliens don't use voice comm, they're a disorganized, strung-out mess and will lose. Aliens cannot even tell what is under attack, much less understand where everyone is, not unless they spend half the game with the map glued to their face.
If marines don't work as a tightly-nit team, it doesn't matter. You can run anywhere as a marine and do something useful for your team, whether its rebuilding a power node, erecting an RT real quick, or simply killing cysts. Marine teamwork is, for the most part "be in groups, and make sure you shoot the biggest thing at once".
If aliens don't work as a tightly-nit team, they lose. You have to have Gorges supporting Onos. You have to have Lerks supporting Onos. You have to have Fades ready to mezz high threats, lerks need to lay down gas to suppress grenade launcher spam.
If marines aren't that great at FPS, it's not a huge deal. Give them a shotgun and they'll still maim and kill skulks. Buy armor upgrades and even your stock scrub can survive extra bites even after he squandered all his pres. Give him an Exo and he'll just W+M1 his way to the alien hive.
If aliens aren't that great at being aliens, they lose. Dead skulks spend half the game in queue and earn no resources which puts them behind the power curve. A Fade is so fragile that you have to be a Zen Ninja to not immediately get killed by the first guy with W2 shotguns that you find. Using Gorge spit requires much higher degrees of skill to hit enemies than it does to use an LMG.
If the marine commander isn't great at being a commander, it's not the biggest problem. Marine upgrades are relatively few, straightforward, and 95% of the tech tree can be researched without even leaving your base.
If the alien commander isn't great at being a commander, and he makes the first hive a Shade hive, you lose, because the game was never once balanced around the concept of every alien NOT having carapace, or NOT having adrenaline / celerity. If you don't grab the second hive in the first couple minutes, you lose, because you literally have no upgrades worth a damn at your first hive. If you don't secure a third hive, you lose, because marines will just steamroll you.
One side has to work twice as hard, endure twice as much asspain, and be twice as good at the game just to compete with an average team of random FPS-gaming scrubs. That isn't balance.
That's the hard situation. Normally you should get the first bite, or two, before the marine has seen you. Drop off walls, hide around corners, anywhere they won't look.
If marines don't use voice comm, not much is lost. The commander can still order them around and there isn't a lot they can do to interact with each other anyway. They've got a sweet minimap and can see everyone and know where to go.
If aliens don't use voice comm, they're a disorganized, strung-out mess and will lose. Aliens cannot even tell what is under attack, much less understand where everyone is, not unless they spend half the game with the map glued to their face.
If marines don't work as a tightly-nit team, it doesn't matter. You can run anywhere as a marine and do something useful for your team, whether its rebuilding a power node, erecting an RT real quick, or simply killing cysts. Marine teamwork is, for the most part "be in groups, and make sure you shoot the biggest thing at once".
If aliens don't work as a tightly-nit team, they lose. You have to have Gorges supporting Onos. You have to have Lerks supporting Onos. You have to have Fades ready to mezz high threats, lerks need to lay down gas to suppress grenade launcher spam.
If marines aren't that great at FPS, it's not a huge deal. Give them a shotgun and they'll still maim and kill skulks. Buy armor upgrades and even your stock scrub can survive extra bites even after he squandered all his pres. Give him an Exo and he'll just W+M1 his way to the alien hive.
If aliens aren't that great at being aliens, they lose. Dead skulks spend half the game in queue and earn no resources which puts them behind the power curve. A Fade is so fragile that you have to be a Zen Ninja to not immediately get killed by the first guy with W2 shotguns that you find. Using Gorge spit requires much higher degrees of skill to hit enemies than it does to use an LMG.
If the marine commander isn't great at being a commander, it's not the biggest problem. Marine upgrades are relatively few, straightforward, and 95% of the tech tree can be researched without even leaving your base.
If the alien commander isn't great at being a commander, and he makes the first hive a Shade hive, you lose, because the game was never once balanced around the concept of every alien NOT having carapace, or NOT having adrenaline / celerity. If you don't grab the second hive in the first couple minutes, you lose, because you literally have no upgrades worth a damn at your first hive. If you don't secure a third hive, you lose, because marines will just steamroll you.
One side has to work twice as hard, endure twice as much asspain, and be twice as good at the game just to compete with an average team of random FPS-gaming scrubs. That isn't balance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
imo it's not really an increase in difficulty, it's an increase in complexity.
the difference being that the increase in complexity can be eradicated after a short time playing the game, the learning curve is maybe 10 or so hours for the average player.
good alien players will know what is expected of them and their teammates, so coordinating attacks isn't hard. the only reason voice comms is more important for alien is the scouting/harrassing. you're able to go alone, therefore it's important to let your teammates know that you're poking around point X and harrassing the extractor etc and inform of any marine movements in the area.
scouting comms as marines is less important because you're rarely alone period, never mind alone in an isolated part of the map. marines make a group push.
so yeah.. aliens are a bit less noob friendly, but a decent player can still turn the tide.
you simply can't ignore the stats, 50% win rate. 45%/55% might indicate a problem, but it's close to 50% and therefore any argument of imbalance is weightless. if anyone choose to ignore these stats without providing some kind of explanation, then they're just being a textbook scrub.
I can, because those stats were produced barely after the game went live on an embarrassingly small sample size, with no correlation whatsoever on how long it was until that victory was achieved, or how many players it was. NS2stats showed an 80% win rate for the Marine team, which last time I checked got reduced down to around 60%. How many of those victories are 4-minute Onos, or 2-minute lucky skulk rushes?
Players are still stacking Marines, and forums EVERYWHERE are full of people saying that Aliens are underpowered, are no fun, are single-track, linear, uninspired, and dull.
Furthermore, you can achieve a 50% win rate, it doesn't matter if nobody actually had fun doing it or the game involves a single Alien strategy to victory (which is the case right now).
How about we see a graph detailing average skulk survivability vs. game time? How about the devs make these stats completely public so there can be no question at all that the game is FLAWLESSLY BALANCED?
The devs said that they're scared of the Steam forums, and it's not hard to see why. People are furious. A quarter of them cannot even find a server, a fifth of them cannot run the game about 15 FPS, and half of them are bored stiff with being slaughtered in milliseconds as a skulk, just sitting in the spawn screen waiting to spawn, so you can egg and then wait some more.
Aliens aren't underpowered, they're just vastly different than every other game you play. You can't buff one team just because the community is too afraid to learn a new way of playing. That's how you get problems like what happened in NS1. Aliens were over buffed and won nearly every round I played for about 2 weeks straight, then I stopped playing. There's nothing more frustrating then getting a few small upgrades and having to fend off 4 fades traveling at light speed through your base until they all roll onoses and obliterate your whole base..... 20 times in a row. Now NS2 is out and they've refined the balance of the game quite well. Please don't ruin their hard work.
It makes no difference where you bite a marine. Their is no head shot for aliens or marines. Skulks can never 1 bite kill a marine at full health.
Seen it happen. It's happened to me and happened to others. Whether that's intended or not is another issue.
But, I guess I'll remove it from the suggestion regardless.
Aliens aren't underpowered, they're just vastly different than every other game you play. You can't buff one team just because the community is too afraid to learn a new way of playing. That's how you get problems like what happened in NS1. Aliens were over buffed and won nearly every round I played for about 2 weeks straight, then I stopped playing. There's nothing more frustrating then getting a few small upgrades and having to fend off 4 fades traveling at light speed through your base until they all roll onoses and obliterate your whole base..... 20 times in a row. Now NS2 is out and they've refined the balance of the game quite well. Please don't ruin their hard work.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
QFT.
i was stacking marines on my first 12 or so hours. basically waiting in lobby for 15 minutes for a marine spot to open up. this is because of two reasons, 1) the alien units/upgrades looked very complicated and 2) i wanted to be a human and blow away some aliens for nostalgia sake.
this is why a lot of people stack marines... i enjoy alien just as much as marine now, and i would enjoy alien even more if i knew how to control the units properly (i'm only happy with my gorge and lerk progress, i still totally suck at advanced skulk/fade control).
anyway, most rookie pub servers i've played on end up with me going alien - facerolling the teamstack noob marine team - then the marine noobs flock over the to alien door in the next lobby only to get demolished by marine when i switch to marine.
newcomers take the lesser evil... take TF2 as an example... how many new players spend their time playing a hard class like scout (very similar to skulk) compared to easy-introduction classes like pyro or engineer?
Good joke.
wouldn't be even if jump spam wasn't so gimped.
But, I guess I'll remove it from the suggestion regardless.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
UW introduced 'glancing bites' because people found it so hard to land bites. So what used to be a miss, might now give you 25 or so points. Hitting the marine on target always gives the same points (70 I think) no matter where you hit him. That's what makes people confused, this very weird system.