Are Fades Going To Be Buffed ?

TimmahIsASaintTimmahIsASaint Join Date: 2012-09-24 Member: 160678Members
Just curious... As one person said...

Playing fade is:
"15 seconds of attacking marines, 5 minutes sitting at hive healing."
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Comments

  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    I would love one, the fade needs his former glory back. Too many Oni rushes in competitive games.
  • PsympleJesterPsympleJester Join Date: 2008-04-06 Member: 64024Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2000573:date=Oct 30 2012, 05:45 AM:name=TimmahIsASaint)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TimmahIsASaint @ Oct 30 2012, 05:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2000573"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just curious... As one person said...

    Playing fade is:
    "15 seconds of attacking marines, 5 minutes sitting at hive healing."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    :O I said that...

    But yeah, Fade needs metabolism so it can heal its self...
    I feel horribly unproductive to the team when I am at the mercy
    of a slow healing hive for 2x longer than I spend actually fighting.
  • CodeineCodeine Join Date: 2010-11-22 Member: 75155Members
    fades are pointless, i havent used fade for a long time. 2-3 swipes and you need to gtfo.
  • PsympleJesterPsympleJester Join Date: 2008-04-06 Member: 64024Members
    edited October 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=2000587:date=Oct 30 2012, 06:00 AM:name=Codeine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Codeine @ Oct 30 2012, 06:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2000587"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->fades are pointless, i havent used fade for a long time. 2-3 swipes and you need to gtfo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Fades arn't pointless but they do suffer due to:
    No metabolism, No focus and Armouries healing armour.

    They are designed to hit and run yet they are unable to quickly heal and re-engage and do not have access to focus
    meaning that they either have to stay in the fight to do significant damage and risk death or do so little dmg they
    may as well not be attacking at all.
  • CodeineCodeine Join Date: 2010-11-22 Member: 75155Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2000590:date=Oct 30 2012, 04:03 PM:name=PsympleJester)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PsympleJester @ Oct 30 2012, 04:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2000590"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->or do so little dmg they
    may as well not be attacking at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Ok so almost pointless.
  • Squirreli_Squirreli_ Join Date: 2012-04-25 Member: 151046Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    They aren't the good old fade spam win button anymore, and arguably they aren't necessary for alien wins. They however allow for better map control and better jetpack defence. Moving as a fade is much harder these days (and once they fix the blink hitbox it will be even harder) but you can still play fade effectively. I would recommend you to give fading some practice in the combat mod. That way you can actually get over the initial hurdles without waiting for fade res for 20 rounds ;)
  • unkindunkind Join Date: 2012-02-04 Member: 143563Members
    fade should be hardier for 50 res in some way, and I really liked the old 1 shot attack where he raised his claws, that was awesome :(
  • fanaticfanatic This post has been edited. Join Date: 2003-07-23 Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    <!--quoteo(post=2000590:date=Oct 30 2012, 07:03 AM:name=PsympleJester)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PsympleJester @ Oct 30 2012, 07:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2000590"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fades arn't pointless but they do suffer due to:
    No metabolism, No focus and Armouries healing armour.

    They are designed to hit and run yet they are unable to quickly heal and re-engage and do not have access to focus
    meaning that they either have to stay in the fight to do significant damage and risk death or do so little dmg they
    may as well not be attacking at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The primary reason fades "suffer", is actually that they have 250 less effective hitpoints (50 hp and 100 armor) than the fade did in NS1, even though marine damage output has stayed mostly the same. Unfortunately, with the amount of aliens that can go fade at the same time in any one game increasing drastically due to aliens mostly only spending their pres on lifeforms, it's possible that the fade must be rather weak by necessity.
  • AngeluszAngelusz Harmonic entropist Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18072Members, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester
    There's been some back-and-forth buffing and nerfing for fades. They've been too strong and too weak. Right now the only thing I'd change is the regeneration of health/armor. From my perspective, it wouldn't be a bad thing if they had a higher base regeneration rate than the other lifeforms. A 'feature' that comes with the class. It's difficult to balance though. I'm sure it'll get some more love after 1.0.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Join Date: 2003-11-28 Member: 23688
    I hope so. Right now even though you can do ok with them, they are not worth the 50res price tag. Having 250 less hitpoints than ns1 makes them feel like paper against even a couple of above average marines.
  • XariusXarius Join Date: 2003-12-21 Member: 24630Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited October 2012
    Bring back focus, fixed.
    Also, metabolism would be nice to have back...

    I still see fades dominate in pub and competitive games alike, so I think many here are exaggerating. They'll certainly need to be careful with any buff.
  • ReubotReubot Join Date: 2012-10-15 Member: 162374Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2000670:date=Oct 30 2012, 12:16 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Oct 30 2012, 12:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2000670"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The primary reason fades "suffer", is actually that they have 250 less effective hitpoints (50 hp and 100 armor) than the fade did in NS1<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    In my opinion the reason is the lack of focus. With focus you could actually spend more time dodging around and less time running after marines and getting focus-fired (eh). So instead of a hp/armor buff I'd rather have focus back in some form or another, because it emphasizes the hit'n'run aspect more.
  • CodeineCodeine Join Date: 2010-11-22 Member: 75155Members
    I never see fades dominating in pubs, i see one then 5 mins later check the score board and no fades, he just wasted 50 res, could've saved another 25 res and went a WAY more useful onos.

    Its simply not worth it, atm fades only job is to roam the map and take out those pesky one or two marines trying to ninja harvesters or upgrade chambers. If not your diving into a group of marines hitting them once and then retreating back to hive.
  • Vladimir Van VodkaVladimir Van Vodka Sexy Beast Join Date: 2010-07-30 Member: 73364Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I love fade, I have no quarrels with him?
    I blink in, kill a marine, and blink out before I get substantial damage.
    The chaos a fade popping in and out provides really helps my team.

    Altho I have to admit lerk is better at doing just that, altho you are less likely to survive.
  • NammNamm Join Date: 2011-12-08 Member: 137116Members
    What if Fades can enter their own Vortex, and while inside, gain energy and health?
  • Vladimir Van VodkaVladimir Van Vodka Sexy Beast Join Date: 2010-07-30 Member: 73364Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=2000728:date=Oct 30 2012, 03:32 PM:name=Namm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Namm @ Oct 30 2012, 03:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2000728"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What if Fades can enter their own Vortex, and while inside, gain energy and health?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    THAT SOUNDS SO KINKY.
  • Dictator93Dictator93 Join Date: 2008-12-21 Member: 65833Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=2000728:date=Oct 30 2012, 12:02 PM:name=Namm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Namm @ Oct 30 2012, 12:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2000728"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What if Fades can enter their own Vortex, and while inside, gain energy and health?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This sounds awesome actually- Wow
  • VolcanoVolcano Join Date: 2011-07-27 Member: 112496Members, Constellation
    and thus removing the need for gorges so they become even more useless
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Join Date: 2003-11-28 Member: 23688
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->and thus removing the need for gorges so they become even more useless<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    It's a 3rd hive ability, at which point it will already most likely be game over.

    Nice idea, but won't be of much use in most games.
  • YuukiYuuki Join Date: 2010-11-20 Member: 75079Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2000728:date=Oct 30 2012, 12:02 PM:name=Namm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Namm @ Oct 30 2012, 12:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2000728"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What if Fades can enter their own Vortex, and while inside, gain energy and health?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Sounds like metabolize. Metabolize was an excellent ability imo, making the energy management more interesting and giving you something to do in low phases of combat.
  • echsechs Join Date: 2002-12-27 Member: 11568Members, Constellation
    Armouries shouldn't repair armour, you have macs and players for that. :(
  • AngeluszAngelusz Harmonic entropist Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18072Members, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester
    <!--quoteo(post=2000751:date=Oct 30 2012, 01:34 PM:name=echs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (echs @ Oct 30 2012, 01:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2000751"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Armouries shouldn't repair armour, you have macs and players for that. :(<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Personally, I agree. I prefered the gameplay when armories didn't repair armor. But this is a whole separate discussion and does not belong in this thread. :) If you wish to return to that subject, I suggest a well-written new thread with all the arguments you can muster.
  • statikgstatikg Join Date: 2012-09-19 Member: 159978Members
    I think that fades need some love as well. Typically although aliens are usually on the defensive at the start of the game I feel like thats just how it works and thats ok. But what makes me feel really ###### is when you finally reach the fading time which IMO is supposed to be when aliens start doing better, a few people decide to give it (fade) a shot and then a few minutes later they are all dead. This happens in 90% of games. The only people I see successfully playing fade are more the most part clanners. You can see the repercussions of this as less people bother with fade and more people just save straight for onos so they can make an impact and win the game.

    I agree that focus would be the easiest fix. I really feel that the addition of focus could be an easy fix to a few difficult problems in this game. Alternatively a base armour buff might help but focus would make for more exciting play I think.

    I would actually love to see focus on the shift hive as I find feign death to be extremely good on fades and hypermutation is just bad when not being abused. It could also replace camouflage because when was the last time anyone used that ability in a serious setting.
  • Know painKnow pain Join Date: 2012-09-04 Member: 157674Members
    Fades don't need any more buffing. An early game fade especially with blink can dominate the marine team, however, late game they tend to fall off a bit. Making fades any stronger will only lead to players creating an alien of 1 fade team, who just goes for kills.

    Now if you still think fades are too weak then go another life form, you still have 4 to choose from.
  • Onii-chanOnii-chan Join Date: 2002-11-05 Member: 7164Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2000587:date=Oct 30 2012, 09:00 AM:name=Codeine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Codeine @ Oct 30 2012, 09:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2000587"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2-3 swipes and you need to gtfo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    That's how good players always played, with caution.
  • echsechs Join Date: 2002-12-27 Member: 11568Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=2000756:date=Oct 30 2012, 12:40 PM:name=Angelusz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Angelusz @ Oct 30 2012, 12:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2000756"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Personally, I agree. I prefered the gameplay when armories didn't repair armor. But this is a whole separate discussion and does not belong in this thread. :) If you wish to return to that subject, I suggest a well-written new thread with all the arguments you can muster.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yeah, thanks. :) I'm just thinking along the lines Fades would perform better if marines didn't rely on Armoury for repairs. That's what made Fades so deadly in NS1, trying to repair eachother while hoping that Fade doesn't return.
  • MisterNubsMisterNubs Join Date: 2012-03-01 Member: 147912Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2000828:date=Oct 30 2012, 09:06 AM:name=Know pain)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Know pain @ Oct 30 2012, 09:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2000828"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Now if you still think fades are too weak then go another life form, you still have 4 to choose from.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    How does this make any sense?

    4 lifeforms to chose from? No, you have one. Onos and only because it has more hp. How does a skulk which takes the same number of bites to kill a marine as the number of swipes as a fade, with less health more "effective" than a fade? And a lerk who's instagibbed by a shotgun. Gorge? No.

    Posts like these are why Aliens are in such a poor shape.
  • arnyboy87arnyboy87 Join Date: 2012-08-13 Member: 155551Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2000828:date=Oct 30 2012, 02:06 PM:name=Know pain)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Know pain @ Oct 30 2012, 02:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2000828"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fades don't need any more buffing. An early game fade especially with blink can dominate the marine team, however, late game they tend to fall off a bit. Making fades any stronger will only lead to players creating an alien of 1 fade team, who just goes for kills.

    Now if you still think fades are too weak then go another life form, you still have 4 to choose from.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    ...Really ? how would you feel if your 50 pres exo had the same armour as a lvl 2 marine ???

    Fades need more armour ... thats it, they don't need more abiltes (would be nice but can live without) 50 armour on a fade is a joke.
  • KeldornKeldorn Join Date: 2012-05-05 Member: 151587Members
    edited October 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=2000849:date=Oct 30 2012, 03:29 PM:name=MisterNubs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MisterNubs @ Oct 30 2012, 03:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2000849"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How does this make any sense?

    4 lifeforms to chose from? No, you have one. Onos and only because it has more hp. How does a skulk which takes the same number of bites to kill a marine as the number of swipes as a fade, with less health more "effective" than a fade? And a lerk who's instagibbed by a shotgun. Gorge? No.

    Posts like these are why Aliens are in such a poor shape.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Lerk and Gorge are my favorite lifeforms so having a lack of experience towards Fades, I could be biased or plainly wrong. I find that every lifeform requires a distinct playstyle, which is subclased in more playstyles depending on the choosen upgrades for this lifeform.

    Having said that, I'd say that the playstyles of both Skulk and Fades are very similiar in nature. Both lifeforms seems analoge in terms of being both melee, having abilities to close gaps quickly, attack and jump out if possible, ... Vortex seems to make Fades more distinct later on. Skulks are assumed to take out RTs more than Fades, but thats just an investment thing (why pay 50 res to take out RTs over the map when you can do other stuff). Nevertheless, I can see why some people find Fades to be an upgraded version of Skulks, a very expensive one at that.

    Again, I could be wrong, I don't like to play Fade myself.

    Maybe skulks and fades are analoge to lmgs and shotguns, except for the part that instagibs opponents. :D
  • Squirreli_Squirreli_ Join Date: 2012-04-25 Member: 151046Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=2000856:date=Oct 30 2012, 04:33 PM:name=arnyboy87)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (arnyboy87 @ Oct 30 2012, 04:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2000856"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fades need more armour ... thats it, they don't need more abiltes (would be nice but can live without) 50 armour on a fade is a joke.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I personally don't usually go fade before carapace. With carapace fading is "make a small mistake and lose 50 pres" and without carapace it is "have 2-3 marines look at you at the same time and lose 50 pres". Now, I do know there are players around who can actually use an un-upgraded fade, but I am not quite there yet. I know, I'm a noob :(
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