How Could Aliens Win This Match ?
TimmahIsASaint
Join Date: 2012-09-24 Member: 160678Members
Join Date: 2012-09-24 Member: 160678Members
Its a really great match by both sides, I feel like Aliens crushed them in the early game nearly doubling marines lost resources but at about 15 minutes marines are ahead 600 resources and aliens are forced to defend double if they want any resources. I don't understand how aliens with essentially 3 upgrades are supposed to combat marines who have 3 armor 3 weapons and almost every upgrade... I mean what could they do ?
Its the first match. Bout 25 mins and really fun to watch :D
<a href="http://www.twitch.tv/blindns2/b/336738110" target="_blank">http://www.twitch.tv/blindns2/b/336738110</a>
Oh yeah and in the second match aliens lose in 5 mins cause they lost second hive and someone says "Never play ######liens >:(" I lold.
Its the first match. Bout 25 mins and really fun to watch :D
<a href="http://www.twitch.tv/blindns2/b/336738110" target="_blank">http://www.twitch.tv/blindns2/b/336738110</a>
Oh yeah and in the second match aliens lose in 5 mins cause they lost second hive and someone says "Never play ######liens >:(" I lold.
Comments
Its the first match. Bout 25 mins and really fun to watch :D
<a href="http://www.twitch.tv/blindns2/b/336738110" target="_blank">http://www.twitch.tv/blindns2/b/336738110</a>
Oh yeah and in the second match aliens lose in 5 mins cause they lost second hive and someone says "Never play ######liens >:(" I lold.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's Archaea.. they won recently at least 4 official(casted by blindns2 and ns2hd)tournaments in a row. Of course Exertus is definately 2nd best team. Unfortunately they have been always runner up because of Archaea.
Anyway, Archaea, the alien of first match is already not losing at all since the beginning. Till the loss of onos, they were definately winning as usual.
It always boils down to Celerity+Carapace then try to hold on to your higher lifeforms because losing them hurts your economy bad, then Onos rush with a rag tag team of what other lifeforms left supporting.
Even at 1 CC, every-time I'm on aliens, we seem to need 1-2 Onos just to finish off the marines.
Are we doing it wrong?
It always boils down to Celerity+Carapace then try to hold on to your higher lifeforms because losing them hurts your economy bad, then Onos rush with a rag tag team of what other lifeforms left supporting.
Even at 1 CC, every-time I'm on aliens, we seem to need 1-2 Onos just to finish off the marines.
Are we doing it wrong?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I feel like it comes down to the fact that with phase gates, marines will always be able to seige and far outresource aliens. So it always is going to come down to a late game in which marines will be far upgraded and aliens will not. What you end up with is 3 3 marines against a few fades and IF they die 3 3 marines against skulks which is a slaughter. Without any scaling on aliens skulks are essentially far more worthless than a single marine AND have longer spawn times. I'm not sure how you can be weaker and have longer spawn times and expect to win ? I feel like marines time spawn should be much longer and aliens should be much shorter. I think its phase gates that break the matchup personally. With constant spawn times it is incredibly hard for aliens to break sieges.
Just my two cents, I'm not a pro or anything its just what I observe and feel when I play.
(phase knockback)
I remember once upon a time, if you manage to get 2-3 on the phase gate surrounding it, you can take out a pg
these days even if you manage to get a whole team there, if they respond fast enough they can recover the pg
That said, the video is a good example of how a tiny number of tactical mistakes is what separates winning and losing on aliens, and the same isn't true for marines.
That said, the video is a good example of how a tiny number of tactical mistakes is what separates winning and losing on aliens, and the same isn't true for marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They had one base. And otherwise Archea killed their second one. There is no chance they could of sent multiple skulks or a fade to harrass base because during all that travel time thats people they can't defend with and people they couldn't attack double with. MEANWHILE if they did travel all the way over there theird probably be atleast 2 marines spawning and hey if they need help just walk through the phase gate they are all standing next to.
Aliens CRUSHED them early game and honestly I don't think they made on major tactical error. The death of the onos was just a good play on marines part.
Yeah this seems to be the case.
The alien commander has alot less to do, but every mistake seems to cause problems.
The marine commander has alot more to do, but seems able to make mistake, lose structures and still win the game.
Its a funny role reversal since NS1 was all about conservative marines and aggressive alien play.
I don't feel like writing a long post explaining why, but I'll just say this: On bigger maps like veil and docking, the marines have a significant advantage over the aliens.
You know what, post 1.0 I can see this becoming less and less of a problem, they seem currently pressed for time, I'm just hoping for vast improvements in the next two or so months.
Alien strategy seems very linear right now, is all I'm saying.
If by "linear" you mean that there is really only one viable strategy for aliens, then yes.
In all honesty, I think there is a pretty clear agreement between most of the better players that playing aliens is pretty boring whilst playing marines is usually fun.
In all honesty, I think there is a pretty clear agreement between most of the better players that playing aliens is pretty boring whilst playing marines is usually fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cause they are vastly underpowered and essentially play defend two hives all day while marines get to slam them with attacks and fun tech ?
Actually they get to play "run back and forth between 2 hive" chasing phasing marines.
AN organised marine team with phase tech is able to slaughter the alien team forcing them to constantly respond late as they chase the latest push to the other hive.
Aliens have no way to keep up with marines, atleast in NS1 you had MC's which allowed telporting between hive.
It isn't really so much about the hive teleportation, but sweeping changes to alien play in general. In NS1 you had faster, smaller, more responsive (in terms of movement control) skulks, lerks within 1 minute and fades at around 4 minutes into the game. Compare that to NS2 where you get lerks (that can be hard-countered by medpacks) at around 3 minutes and fades (with 250 less effective hitpoints) at around 10 minutes into the game.
Of course that is a gross oversimplification, but it makes the point.
There isn't much room to go around - Marines push sub for a 2nd CC, if you want to circle around, you have to go ALL THE WAY from topo. Marines push to double, if you want to circle around, again ALL THE WAY from topo. Marines push to Cargo, okay, now you can attack double while they do this, but you're already losing at this point.
Put that together with encounters along the long and usually well-lit corridors of Veil, with very few places to hide and ambush, and you have marine domination (usually).
For Docking, the map is a lot more playable right now IMO, since Marines don't get free res from landing pad anymore, and there are more vents enabling, again, better alien mobility which is crucial for that map since courtyard goes everywhere, and all RTs are extremely vulnerable, which requires very rapid response from aliens and commander communication to anticipate RTs being attacked before they actually are.
But I dislike Veil for Aliens. From what I've seen on pubs, you have to stack the teams a bit in favor of Aliens to really have a decent game on Veil. Otherwise it's just a marine steamroll. Phase gate in double, minefield. Phase gate in Y junction, minefield. Grenade launchers/JP -> cargo down. It's all too predictable and boring.
It would be interesting if Veil had a tech point inside double for example... or somewhere like C12?
Thank you for putting into words what I was feeling all the time. Truer words have never been spoken.
Imagine aliens had a lifeform that costs 20 res, does some ranged damage, but can also kill a marine up close in one hit. Also, when that alien dies, and another skulk walks by, he can pick it up and continue where the other one left off. Imagine the clamoring about imbalance if such a thing were to be in the game. And yet, it does exist, the marines have it, it's called a shotgun.
I say it's time for the Lerk to be 20 res instead of 30, and for ranged gas to return. Don't nerf marines, but give aliens something to counter. Similarly, acid rocket for fade is something that's sorely missed for high tech confrontations.
Right now alien stuff is way too pricy and you lose it when you die, while the next marine laughs and picks up that free grenade launcher from his fallen comrade.
Hive transportation - oh yes please. Aliens absolutely need a counter for the phasegate. Having this work only between hives already makes it sufficiently different from the phasegate while allowing aliens to respond to attacks more quickly.