gorge should be the main attack force for aliens. gorge spit should one-hit kill. and he should be able to spin around like a ninja and chuck hovaring scorpains like ninja stars.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gorge walls provide a very minimal annoyance to marines. Hydras are laughable for a total of 20 pres cost static structures. Heal spray is slow as hell, compare heal spray to a welder on an exo. I know its AoE but it doesnt make up for it being poor. Gorge is a slow, fat target.
The only reason you go gorge is to bile spam, but given aliens game finishing potential isnt what it should be I expect other mechanics to be added to help aliens out in that respect.
So what do you do? AFK at buildings hoping marines dont turn up. Afking around corners to help people without regen out. Afk facing base power nodes bile bombing. What does he need? Spit needs to be changed into a legitimate skill baseda ttack, make it a smooth fire when you press the mouse click (currently it 'sticks' in your mouth slightly making it very difficult to shoot) think spinfusor, increase his base move speed slightly (cant even keep up with an onos) and give him something to do. Allow the commander to 'buy' him structures (click on gorge, buy a whip for example) for slightly lower than the tres cost of just dumping it and let him place it. That and add something active for him to do, sitting by a harvester forever holding right click is not fun.
<!--quoteo(post=1985625:date=Oct 1 2012, 03:26 PM:name=RobustPenguin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RobustPenguin @ Oct 1 2012, 03:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985625"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Gorge walls provide a very minimal annoyance to marines. Hydras are laughable for a total of 20 pres cost static structures. Heal spray is slow as hell, compare heal spray to a welder on an exo. I know its AoE but it doesnt make up for it being poor.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. Incorrect, gorge walls easily block off an area that makes it impossible for 1-3 marines to pass through, larger groups that can take the walls down still take a while which allows for reinforcements. 2. Incorrect, first off, hydras cost 9 pres for 3 of them, secondly, hydras are very powerful when backed by heals 3. Incorrect, heal spray is a very powerful full heal, welders only heal armour and require 5pres, they are only useful in combat situations for supporting exos which get devastated by bilebombs. Gorges can heal and bile bomb simultaneously, a marine with a welder can only heal.
<!--quoteo(post=1985626:date=Oct 1 2012, 04:30 PM:name=antacid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (antacid @ Oct 1 2012, 04:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985626"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1. Incorrect, gorge walls easily block off an area that makes it impossible for 1-3 marines to pass through, larger groups that can take the walls down still take a while which allows for reinforcements. 2. Incorrect, first off, hydras cost 9 pres for 3 of them, secondly, hydras are very powerful when backed by heals 3. Incorrect, heal spray is a very powerful full heal, welders only heal armour and require 5pres, they are only useful in combat situations for supporting exos which get devastated by bilebombs. Gorges can heal and bile bomb simultaneously, a marine with a welder can only heal.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. A single marine W0 LMG can shoot through the edges of the wall very easily, with the gravity the wall then often collapses
2. The hydras might cost 3 each but you also have the 10 res lifeform required for them, even backed by heals a single LMG marine can take hydras out quite easily.
3. Exos do not get 'devastated' by bilebombs at all, 30 damage over the whole duration of the bile per bomb. That means for a 500 armour exo you're looking at alot of biles. It takes a long time to heal even a lerk let alone onos, and in base repair terms the welder is again much quicker. As you said cheaper and reusable. You may technically be able to heal and bile at the same time but good luck unless you're sat next to a shift.
<!--quoteo(post=1985626:date=Oct 1 2012, 11:30 AM:name=antacid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (antacid @ Oct 1 2012, 11:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985626"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1. Incorrect, gorge walls easily block off an area that makes it impossible for 1-3 marines to pass through, larger groups that can take the walls down still take a while which allows for reinforcements. 2. Incorrect, first off, hydras cost 9 pres for 3 of them, secondly, hydras are very powerful when backed by heals 3. Incorrect, heal spray is a very powerful full heal, welders only heal armour and require 5pres, they are only useful in combat situations for supporting exos which get devastated by bilebombs. Gorges can heal and bile bomb simultaneously, a marine with a welder can only heal.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A gorge can heal and bile bomb simultaneously? A marine with a welder could say weld and then switch to his GL and mess some crap up then go back to welding. Oh and the marine doesn't have to wait for energy to recharge to go back to welding.
Gorges need some help at least defending themselves. Spit should be like the bullsquid spit from black mesa, a shotgun spray of shorter range projectiles that have an arc with a longer energy cost and cooldown.
Whips need to start actually working against GLs so that gorge walls can actually stand a chance against them. I just hope whip vs. GL can be addressed before 1.0 since its not exactly a feature that isn't in the game, its a feature thats in the game that isnt working.
<!--quoteo(post=1985625:date=Oct 1 2012, 11:26 AM:name=RobustPenguin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RobustPenguin @ Oct 1 2012, 11:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985625"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...So what do you do? AFK at buildings hoping marines dont turn up. Afking around corners to help people without regen out. Afk facing base power nodes bile bombing. What does he need<b>? Spit needs to be changed into a legitimate skill baseda ttack, make it a smooth fire when you press the mouse click (currently it 'sticks' in your mouth slightly making it very difficult to shoot) think spinfusor, increase his base move speed slightly (cant even keep up with an onos) and give him something to do.</b> Allow the commander to 'buy' him structures (click on gorge, buy a whip for example) for slightly lower than the tres cost of just dumping it and let him place it. That and add something active for him to do, sitting by a harvester forever holding right click is not fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is the best idea I've ever read. I for one support giving Gorges spinfusors. Right now amazing Gorges definitely help contribute to a win, but it is a huge sacrifice on the player because it's so boring. The aliens really suffer a lack of ranged attack options, so a Gorge spinfusor upgrade would go a long way towards making the gorge fun and filling a specific hole in the alien composition.
^ Only if Gorges also get jetpacks. Right now it's criminally hard to gain height or momentum as Gorge. Giving Gorges JPs and Spinfusors will make their class much more interesting and skill-based.
Maybe give them an optional alt-weapon that replaces their spinfusor with a hitscan shotgun. Choices are always good.
Glad I'm not the only one incredibly frustrated by the current state of the gorge.
UWE said they'd make him a proper combat engineer, they didn't. They already made clear they don't really want or like player versus structures (see sentry thread) so hydra buffs aren't going to happen. Doubt we will even get rid of the ridiculous hardcap of 3 (though for performance, for the time being it's probably a good thing). Having them hardcapped AND cost tpres at the same time is just silly. P.res acts as a soft cap, it's more than adequate (together with the general low survivability of the hydra) to ensure that spamming them isn't going to be really viable.
So UWE, how about we make them an actual combat engineer? Currently he's neither combat nor engineer. The structures he places aren't exactly thrilling or something he can spend more than a few minutes on and the combat, at T1, is simply non-existent. Make his spit play out like a shot gun, you know that type of weapon most combat engineers in other games actually get to fight with? The longer you hold it the heavier it hits on shorter ranges (i.e it doesn't go as far).
Either that or make him tankier and buff his healspray.
<!--quoteo(post=1985685:date=Oct 1 2012, 11:09 AM:name=Xarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xarius @ Oct 1 2012, 11:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985685"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Glad I'm not the only one incredibly frustrated by the current state of the gorge.
UWE said they'd make him a proper combat engineer, they didn't. They already made clear they don't really want or like player versus structures (see sentry thread) so hydra buffs aren't going to happen. Doubt we will even get rid of the ridiculous hardcap of 3 (though for performance, for the time being it's probably a good thing). Having them hardcapped AND cost tpres at the same time is just silly. P.res acts as a soft cap, it's more than adequate (together with the general low survivability of the hydra) to ensure that spamming them isn't going to be really viable.
So UWE, how about we make them an actual combat engineer? Currently he's neither combat nor engineer. The structures he places aren't exactly thrilling or something he can spend more than a few minutes on and the combat, at T1, is simply non-existent. Make his spit play out like a shot gun, you know that type of weapon most combat engineers in other games actually get to fight with? The longer you hold it the heavier it hits on shorter ranges (i.e it doesn't go as far).
Either that or make him tankier and buff his healspray.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This. UWE need to give up on their idea of no player vs structures. Its a good idea to a point, but they have taken it too far with the gorge and sentry guns.
Biggest letdown for gorge right now for me is the fact that clogs are rather useless in the new physics system. They are only valued as damage soakers now, because marines can freely jump over most any amount of them with their new found gecko-like rock climbing abilities. :/ Being able to block/deny certain chokepoints with clogs was a big deal (especially so in being able to hold RTs in alien early game imo) and now it's just gone.
Xarius thats actually a really good idea, the idea of charging up the spit. Maybe just clicking it will spit like normal but charging it will unleash a shorter ranged spit shotgun blast. I don't think the shotgun spit should do a lot of extra damage though, just make it easier to hit with it. Connecting with spit is really difficult right now.
I also agree that either the cap needs to be removed on hydras and the pres cost left there or the pres cost removed but cap kept there.
If you remove the hydra cap you could probably increase the hydra cost to 4-5 and it would still be viable as a soft cap. Then buff gorge spit (hopefully with the shotgun mechanic) and how they work with adrenaline and you might have an actually viable combat engineer type life form.
Its not OP because that person could instead be saving for a fade when they aren't.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Xarius thats actually a really good idea, the idea of charging up the spit. Maybe just clicking it will spit like normal but charging it will unleash a shorter ranged spit shotgun blast. I don't think the shotgun spit should do a lot of extra damage though, just make it easier to hit with it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NS2: where you can play as an alien porcupine-hippo-piggy that gurgles and spits. I want this just to see the Gorge do that :P
After playing as the Gorge in the "NS2: Classic" mod last night, the only suggestion I could make for improving the Gorge in NS2 is to make the Gorge do exactly what he does in the NS2: Classic mod. :)
<!--quoteo(post=1985685:date=Oct 1 2012, 01:09 PM:name=Xarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xarius @ Oct 1 2012, 01:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985685"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They already made clear they don't really want or like player versus structures (see sentry thread) so hydra buffs aren't going to happen.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Being a FPS and a RTS isn't player vs structure kind of... part of the RTS part of the game? Commanders have defensive structures to drop which force other team to deal with them before rushing on into the base and messing it up. Any RTS game i can think of use defensive buildings...just saying..
<!--quoteo(post=1985705:date=Oct 1 2012, 09:36 AM:name=rantology)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rantology @ Oct 1 2012, 09:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985705"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Biggest letdown for gorge right now for me is the fact that clogs are rather useless in the new physics system. They are only valued as damage soakers now, because marines can freely jump over most any amount of them with their new found gecko-like rock climbing abilities. :/ Being able to block/deny certain chokepoints with clogs was a big deal (especially so in being able to hold RTs in alien early game imo) and now it's just gone.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Rethink your placement then. Clogs don't need to be placed on the floor in a big pile to form a wall. I can generally block marines 100% with no more than 7.
<!--quoteo(post=1985758:date=Oct 1 2012, 11:54 AM:name=Davil)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Davil @ Oct 1 2012, 11:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985758"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Rethink your placement then. Clogs don't need to be placed on the floor in a big pile to form a wall. I can generally block marines 100% with no more than 7.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which is sad because you used to be able to do it with 2. That's what I mean when I say that they are useless in this respect.
<!--quoteo(post=1985758:date=Oct 1 2012, 02:54 PM:name=Davil)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Davil @ Oct 1 2012, 02:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985758"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Rethink your placement then. Clogs don't need to be placed on the floor in a big pile to form a wall. I can generally block marines 100% with no more than 7.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1985680:date=Oct 1 2012, 06:01 PM:name=mR.Waffles)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mR.Waffles @ Oct 1 2012, 06:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985680"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is the best idea I've ever read. I for one support giving Gorges spinfusors. Right now amazing Gorges definitely help contribute to a win, but it is a huge sacrifice on the player because it's so boring. The aliens really suffer a lack of ranged attack options, so a Gorge spinfusor upgrade would go a long way towards making the gorge fun and filling a specific hole in the alien composition.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You know what I mean, spinfusor is <i>the</i> iconic skill based projectile weapon in video games and for good reason. I find it bizzare that as someone whos played tribes 2 religiously since it was released (played starsiege too but wasnt so into it) I cant handle the spit (a fast projectile, in close range vs slow targets) purely because of its dodgy firing time and lack of visual feedback for the gorge. A skilled projectile weapon needs:
1) Visibility, the player who fired it needs to see it to adjust, the player whos having it fired at needs to be able to skill based dodge it
2) Smooth-ness, when you click the mouse button the projectile needs to be gone and on its way. You cannot have any delay in firing
3) Reward, If you direct hit a dude with a projectile it should do some serious damage. You're taking a risk in using it over a spam/hitscan weapon so wheres the risk reward.
It might give the gorge some skill to it, currently it has the lowest skill cap of anything in the game because your primary role is to afk and hold mouse 2 at players/buildings or stand still and mouse 1 into the base in the general direction of buildings.
But if someone wants to mod gorge tribes I would play the ###### out of that.
<!--quoteo(post=1985768:date=Oct 1 2012, 02:23 PM:name=RobustPenguin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RobustPenguin @ Oct 1 2012, 02:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985768"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You know what I mean, spinfusor is <i>the</i> iconic skill based projectile weapon in video games and for good reason.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Among Tribes players, maybe. Some of us out here are still fans of good old rockets.
<!--quoteo(post=1985771:date=Oct 1 2012, 08:27 PM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Oct 1 2012, 08:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985771"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Among Tribes players, maybe. Some of us out here are still fans of good old rockets.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Quake style rockets are good too, but they wouldnt fit imho. Like I say, in a game as slow burning as NS2 you need high visuality of anything that can kill you and potentially take away that lifeform you saved 20 minuets for, rockets are very fast and quite hard to spot in comparison to a giant glowing ball of hurt.
<!--quoteo(post=1985771:date=Oct 1 2012, 02:27 PM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Oct 1 2012, 02:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985771"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Among Tribes players, maybe. Some of us out here are still fans of good old rockets.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
the new spinfuz0r is weak as piss tho. tribes is all about machine guns now, made the game WAY too easy
<!--quoteo(post=1985768:date=Oct 1 2012, 03:23 PM:name=RobustPenguin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RobustPenguin @ Oct 1 2012, 03:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985768"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You know what I mean, spinfusor is <i>the</i> iconic skill based projectile weapon in video games and for good reason. I find it bizzare that as someone whos played tribes 2 religiously since it was released (played starsiege too but wasnt so into it) I cant handle the spit (a fast projectile, in close range vs slow targets) purely because of its dodgy firing time and lack of visual feedback for the gorge. A skilled projectile weapon needs:
1) Visibility, the player who fired it needs to see it to adjust, the player whos having it fired at needs to be able to skill based dodge it
2) Smooth-ness, when you click the mouse button the projectile needs to be gone and on its way. You cannot have any delay in firing
3) Reward, If you direct hit a dude with a projectile it should do some serious damage. You're taking a risk in using it over a spam/hitscan weapon so wheres the risk reward.
It might give the gorge some skill to it, currently it has the lowest skill cap of anything in the game because your primary role is to afk and hold mouse 2 at players/buildings or stand still and mouse 1 into the base in the general direction of buildings.
But if someone wants to mod gorge tribes I would play the ###### out of that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know exactly what you mean. I was being completely serious. I think we should give the Gorge their own version of spinfusor. I love your idea so much I wouldn't even mind if they just put a place holder model where the Gorge actually held a spinfusor.
<!--quoteo(post=1985775:date=Oct 1 2012, 10:32 PM:name=VeNeM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VeNeM @ Oct 1 2012, 10:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985775"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the new spinfuz0r is weak as piss tho. tribes is all about machine guns now, made the game WAY too easy<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't think you've played since the early beta then, spinfusors, mortars and twinfusors dominate these days. Auto weapons are generally reserved for finishing up wounded players. :)
Now, on to the Gorge: The current gorge just needs his spit projectile fixed, crogs need to be harder to jump and it should be pretty much fine, maybe a few more tweaks down the line, as needed. Gorging in NS1 was a necessity, not a pleasure. And sitting in a corner waiting for res to build chambers/RTs/hives does not make for good gameplay.
With the ability to partially or fully block some areas with crags/hydras and with bilebomb, the current gorge is a critical support role and not just 10 extra res you need to spend when you drop a hive.
<!--quoteo(post=1985805:date=Oct 1 2012, 03:14 PM:name=Onii-chan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Onii-chan @ Oct 1 2012, 03:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985805"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't think you've played since the early beta then, spinfusors, mortars and twinfusors dominate these days. Auto weapons are generally reserved for finishing up wounded players. :)
Now, on to the Gorge: The current gorge just needs his spit projectile fixed, crogs need to be harder to jump and it should be pretty much fine, maybe a few more tweaks down the line, as needed. Gorging in NS1 was a necessity, not a pleasure. And sitting in a corner waiting for res to build chambers/RTs/hives does not make for good gameplay.
With the ability to partially or fully block some areas with crags/hydras and with bilebomb, the current gorge is a critical support role and not just 10 extra res you need to spend when you drop a hive.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yea i havent played in a few months, early on in beta the spinfusor was great but then they super buffed all the machine guns and made it cs with jetpacks, got unfun real quick because i played tribes for the baseholding ctf and spinfuz0r fun.
as for gorge, i loved playing as gorge, gorge rushing, and royally being a nuisance in every game, dropping ocs in choke points , and then running for your life as a marine sneaks up behind you , and narrowly making it into a vent and then spamming the taunt while spitting. lol good times. especially in long vents where the spit attack just destroys marines lol
the new gorge while not nearly as satisfying can be fun, if you can get a com to drop a shift near you can infinite bile bomb an area. plus healspam if you have a few gorges its crazy. until the nades come and ruin your gorge day D:
<!--quoteo(post=1985805:date=Oct 1 2012, 09:14 PM:name=Onii-chan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Onii-chan @ Oct 1 2012, 09:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985805"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't think you've played since the early beta then, spinfusors, mortars and twinfusors dominate these days. Auto weapons are generally reserved for finishing up wounded players. :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Tried it earlier. Projectile speed on the machine guns makes them so easy to use a monkey could do it and they still do horrific damage (75/hit for a sub machine gun on the raider/sniper is just a joke) Inheritance is still not 100% And the SF damage hasnt changed. So the MGs are still as stupidly powerful as they always were, guess its just that the only people left are bored of machine gun spam.
<!--quoteo(post=1985805:date=Oct 1 2012, 03:14 PM:name=Onii-chan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Onii-chan @ Oct 1 2012, 03:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985805"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't think you've played since the early beta then, spinfusors, mortars and twinfusors dominate these days. Auto weapons are generally reserved for finishing up wounded players. :)
Now, on to the Gorge: The current gorge just needs his spit projectile fixed, crogs need to be harder to jump and it should be pretty much fine, maybe a few more tweaks down the line, as needed. Gorging in NS1 was a necessity, not a pleasure. And sitting in a corner waiting for res to build chambers/RTs/hives does not make for good gameplay.
With the ability to partially or fully block some areas with crags/hydras and with bilebomb, the current gorge is a critical support role and not just 10 extra res you need to spend when you drop a hive.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
gorge should be the main attack force for aliens. gorge spit should one-hit kill. and he should be able to spin around like a ninja and chuck hovaring scorpains like ninja stars.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Constructive ^^
I vote for a small buff and some redesign.
Hydras are laughable for a total of 20 pres cost static structures.
Heal spray is slow as hell, compare heal spray to a welder on an exo. I know its AoE but it doesnt make up for it being poor.
Gorge is a slow, fat target.
The only reason you go gorge is to bile spam, but given aliens game finishing potential isnt what it should be I expect other mechanics to be added to help aliens out in that respect.
So what do you do? AFK at buildings hoping marines dont turn up. Afking around corners to help people without regen out. Afk facing base power nodes bile bombing. What does he need? Spit needs to be changed into a legitimate skill baseda ttack, make it a smooth fire when you press the mouse click (currently it 'sticks' in your mouth slightly making it very difficult to shoot) think spinfusor, increase his base move speed slightly (cant even keep up with an onos) and give him something to do. Allow the commander to 'buy' him structures (click on gorge, buy a whip for example) for slightly lower than the tres cost of just dumping it and let him place it. That and add something active for him to do, sitting by a harvester forever holding right click is not fun.
Hydras are laughable for a total of 20 pres cost static structures.
Heal spray is slow as hell, compare heal spray to a welder on an exo. I know its AoE but it doesnt make up for it being poor.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. Incorrect, gorge walls easily block off an area that makes it impossible for 1-3 marines to pass through, larger groups that can take the walls down still take a while which allows for reinforcements.
2. Incorrect, first off, hydras cost 9 pres for 3 of them, secondly, hydras are very powerful when backed by heals
3. Incorrect, heal spray is a very powerful full heal, welders only heal armour and require 5pres, they are only useful in combat situations for supporting exos which get devastated by bilebombs. Gorges can heal and bile bomb simultaneously, a marine with a welder can only heal.
2. Incorrect, first off, hydras cost 9 pres for 3 of them, secondly, hydras are very powerful when backed by heals
3. Incorrect, heal spray is a very powerful full heal, welders only heal armour and require 5pres, they are only useful in combat situations for supporting exos which get devastated by bilebombs. Gorges can heal and bile bomb simultaneously, a marine with a welder can only heal.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. A single marine W0 LMG can shoot through the edges of the wall very easily, with the gravity the wall then often collapses
2. The hydras might cost 3 each but you also have the 10 res lifeform required for them, even backed by heals a single LMG marine can take hydras out quite easily.
3. Exos do not get 'devastated' by bilebombs at all, 30 damage over the whole duration of the bile per bomb. That means for a 500 armour exo you're looking at alot of biles. It takes a long time to heal even a lerk let alone onos, and in base repair terms the welder is again much quicker. As you said cheaper and reusable. You may technically be able to heal and bile at the same time but good luck unless you're sat next to a shift.
2. Incorrect, first off, hydras cost 9 pres for 3 of them, secondly, hydras are very powerful when backed by heals
3. Incorrect, heal spray is a very powerful full heal, welders only heal armour and require 5pres, they are only useful in combat situations for supporting exos which get devastated by bilebombs. Gorges can heal and bile bomb simultaneously, a marine with a welder can only heal.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A gorge can heal and bile bomb simultaneously? A marine with a welder could say weld and then switch to his GL and mess some crap up then go back to welding. Oh and the marine doesn't have to wait for energy to recharge to go back to welding.
Gorges need some help at least defending themselves. Spit should be like the bullsquid spit from black mesa, a shotgun spray of shorter range projectiles that have an arc with a longer energy cost and cooldown.
Whips need to start actually working against GLs so that gorge walls can actually stand a chance against them. I just hope whip vs. GL can be addressed before 1.0 since its not exactly a feature that isn't in the game, its a feature thats in the game that isnt working.
This is the best idea I've ever read. I for one support giving Gorges spinfusors. Right now amazing Gorges definitely help contribute to a win, but it is a huge sacrifice on the player because it's so boring. The aliens really suffer a lack of ranged attack options, so a Gorge spinfusor upgrade would go a long way towards making the gorge fun and filling a specific hole in the alien composition.
Only if Gorges also get jetpacks. Right now it's criminally hard to gain height or momentum as Gorge. Giving Gorges JPs and Spinfusors will make their class much more interesting and skill-based.
Maybe give them an optional alt-weapon that replaces their spinfusor with a hitscan shotgun. Choices are always good.
UWE said they'd make him a proper combat engineer, they didn't. They already made clear they don't really want or like player versus structures (see sentry thread) so hydra buffs aren't going to happen. Doubt we will even get rid of the ridiculous hardcap of 3 (though for performance, for the time being it's probably a good thing). Having them hardcapped AND cost tpres at the same time is just silly. P.res acts as a soft cap, it's more than adequate (together with the general low survivability of the hydra) to ensure that spamming them isn't going to be really viable.
So UWE, how about we make them an actual combat engineer? Currently he's neither combat nor engineer. The structures he places aren't exactly thrilling or something he can spend more than a few minutes on and the combat, at T1, is simply non-existent. Make his spit play out like a shot gun, you know that type of weapon most combat engineers in other games actually get to fight with? The longer you hold it the heavier it hits on shorter ranges (i.e it doesn't go as far).
Either that or make him tankier and buff his healspray.
UWE said they'd make him a proper combat engineer, they didn't. They already made clear they don't really want or like player versus structures (see sentry thread) so hydra buffs aren't going to happen. Doubt we will even get rid of the ridiculous hardcap of 3 (though for performance, for the time being it's probably a good thing). Having them hardcapped AND cost tpres at the same time is just silly. P.res acts as a soft cap, it's more than adequate (together with the general low survivability of the hydra) to ensure that spamming them isn't going to be really viable.
So UWE, how about we make them an actual combat engineer? Currently he's neither combat nor engineer. The structures he places aren't exactly thrilling or something he can spend more than a few minutes on and the combat, at T1, is simply non-existent. Make his spit play out like a shot gun, you know that type of weapon most combat engineers in other games actually get to fight with? The longer you hold it the heavier it hits on shorter ranges (i.e it doesn't go as far).
Either that or make him tankier and buff his healspray.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This. UWE need to give up on their idea of no player vs structures. Its a good idea to a point, but they have taken it too far with the gorge and sentry guns.
I also agree that either the cap needs to be removed on hydras and the pres cost left there or the pres cost removed but cap kept there.
If you remove the hydra cap you could probably increase the hydra cost to 4-5 and it would still be viable as a soft cap. Then buff gorge spit (hopefully with the shotgun mechanic) and how they work with adrenaline and you might have an actually viable combat engineer type life form.
Its not OP because that person could instead be saving for a fade when they aren't.
NS2: where you can play as an alien porcupine-hippo-piggy that gurgles and spits. I want this just to see the Gorge do that :P
Being a FPS and a RTS isn't player vs structure kind of... part of the RTS part of the game? Commanders have defensive structures to drop which force other team to deal with them before rushing on into the base and messing it up. Any RTS game i can think of use defensive buildings...just saying..
Rethink your placement then. Clogs don't need to be placed on the floor in a big pile to form a wall. I can generally block marines 100% with no more than 7.
Which is sad because you used to be able to do it with 2. That's what I mean when I say that they are useless in this respect.
screenshot or it didn't happen :)
You know what I mean, spinfusor is <i>the</i> iconic skill based projectile weapon in video games and for good reason. I find it bizzare that as someone whos played tribes 2 religiously since it was released (played starsiege too but wasnt so into it) I cant handle the spit (a fast projectile, in close range vs slow targets) purely because of its dodgy firing time and lack of visual feedback for the gorge. A skilled projectile weapon needs:
1) Visibility, the player who fired it needs to see it to adjust, the player whos having it fired at needs to be able to skill based dodge it
2) Smooth-ness, when you click the mouse button the projectile needs to be gone and on its way. You cannot have any delay in firing
3) Reward, If you direct hit a dude with a projectile it should do some serious damage. You're taking a risk in using it over a spam/hitscan weapon so wheres the risk reward.
It might give the gorge some skill to it, currently it has the lowest skill cap of anything in the game because your primary role is to afk and hold mouse 2 at players/buildings or stand still and mouse 1 into the base in the general direction of buildings.
But if someone wants to mod gorge tribes I would play the ###### out of that.
Among Tribes players, maybe. Some of us out here are still fans of good old rockets.
Quake style rockets are good too, but they wouldnt fit imho. Like I say, in a game as slow burning as NS2 you need high visuality of anything that can kill you and potentially take away that lifeform you saved 20 minuets for, rockets are very fast and quite hard to spot in comparison to a giant glowing ball of hurt.
the new spinfuz0r is weak as piss tho. tribes is all about machine guns now, made the game WAY too easy
1) Visibility, the player who fired it needs to see it to adjust, the player whos having it fired at needs to be able to skill based dodge it
2) Smooth-ness, when you click the mouse button the projectile needs to be gone and on its way. You cannot have any delay in firing
3) Reward, If you direct hit a dude with a projectile it should do some serious damage. You're taking a risk in using it over a spam/hitscan weapon so wheres the risk reward.
It might give the gorge some skill to it, currently it has the lowest skill cap of anything in the game because your primary role is to afk and hold mouse 2 at players/buildings or stand still and mouse 1 into the base in the general direction of buildings.
But if someone wants to mod gorge tribes I would play the ###### out of that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know exactly what you mean. I was being completely serious. I think we should give the Gorge their own version of spinfusor. I love your idea so much I wouldn't even mind if they just put a place holder model where the Gorge actually held a spinfusor.
I don't think you've played since the early beta then, spinfusors, mortars and twinfusors dominate these days.
Auto weapons are generally reserved for finishing up wounded players. :)
Now, on to the Gorge:
The current gorge just needs his spit projectile fixed, crogs need to be harder to jump and it should be pretty much fine, maybe a few more tweaks down the line, as needed.
Gorging in NS1 was a necessity, not a pleasure.
And sitting in a corner waiting for res to build chambers/RTs/hives does not make for good gameplay.
With the ability to partially or fully block some areas with crags/hydras and with bilebomb, the current gorge is a critical support role and not just 10 extra res you need to spend when you drop a hive.
Auto weapons are generally reserved for finishing up wounded players. :)
Now, on to the Gorge:
The current gorge just needs his spit projectile fixed, crogs need to be harder to jump and it should be pretty much fine, maybe a few more tweaks down the line, as needed.
Gorging in NS1 was a necessity, not a pleasure.
And sitting in a corner waiting for res to build chambers/RTs/hives does not make for good gameplay.
With the ability to partially or fully block some areas with crags/hydras and with bilebomb, the current gorge is a critical support role and not just 10 extra res you need to spend when you drop a hive.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yea i havent played in a few months, early on in beta the spinfusor was great but then they super buffed all the machine guns and made it cs with jetpacks, got unfun real quick because i played tribes for the baseholding ctf and spinfuz0r fun.
as for gorge, i loved playing as gorge, gorge rushing, and royally being a nuisance in every game, dropping ocs in choke points , and then running for your life as a marine sneaks up behind you , and narrowly making it into a vent and then spamming the taunt while spitting. lol good times. especially in long vents where the spit attack just destroys marines lol
the new gorge while not nearly as satisfying can be fun, if you can get a com to drop a shift near you can infinite bile bomb an area. plus healspam if you have a few gorges its crazy. until the nades come and ruin your gorge day D:
Auto weapons are generally reserved for finishing up wounded players. :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Tried it earlier. Projectile speed on the machine guns makes them so easy to use a monkey could do it and they still do horrific damage (75/hit for a sub machine gun on the raider/sniper is just a joke) Inheritance is still not 100% And the SF damage hasnt changed. So the MGs are still as stupidly powerful as they always were, guess its just that the only people left are bored of machine gun spam.
Auto weapons are generally reserved for finishing up wounded players. :)
Now, on to the Gorge:
The current gorge just needs his spit projectile fixed, crogs need to be harder to jump and it should be pretty much fine, maybe a few more tweaks down the line, as needed.
Gorging in NS1 was a necessity, not a pleasure.
And sitting in a corner waiting for res to build chambers/RTs/hives does not make for good gameplay.
With the ability to partially or fully block some areas with crags/hydras and with bilebomb, the current gorge is a critical support role and not just 10 extra res you need to spend when you drop a hive.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i REALLY want that damn twin-fusor LOL
Patch 231
-gorge heal spray removed