I guess the same thing that applies to sentries applies to hydras, as in, they don't want to make static defense too strong to stimulate more pvp and less player vs static defense. They cost alot less than sentries, are available right away but they are also crap. :) I'd rather have something else as a gorge than hydras currently, that or just increase their accuracy and keep them fragile.
<!--quoteo(post=1968724:date=Aug 30 2012, 01:42 AM:name=twiliteblue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twiliteblue @ Aug 30 2012, 01:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1968724"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Guys, don't forget that Hydras are not the only structures aliens have.
Whips, Crags, and Shades can boost Hydras' effectiveness quite a lot.
Perhaps Shift and Clogs need better synergy with Hydras.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're asking an alien com to help boost hydra effectiveness by spending precious t.res on static structures early game to make hydras "useful".
Or did you mean late game when marines and exosuits can take down hydras like they're made of paper, and gorges shouldn't even bother with them at that point as they're easily ignored anyway.
<!--quoteo(post=1968724:date=Aug 30 2012, 04:42 PM:name=twiliteblue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twiliteblue @ Aug 30 2012, 04:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1968724"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Guys, don't forget that Hydras are not the only structures aliens have.
Whips, Crags, and Shades can boost Hydras' effectiveness quite a lot.
Perhaps Shift and Clogs need better synergy with Hydras.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The above only work if comm can work with gorges and has res to invest...a gorge should be able to set things up independantly this is what allowed the aliens such early game map control in NS1. 1 gorge with a couple of OC's could hold a corridor easily... 1 gorge and 3 hydras in NS1 does not have the same ability.
This loss of ability to lock marines out of an area is part of the reason we see such map dominance from the marines and aliens often reclaiming from 1 or at best 2 hives 3-4 min in.
I still dont see why a gorge cant build a whip variant for 15 P-Res, has similar HP to whip but fires like a hydra. Still needs to be scaled as time progresses, otherwise marines simply get stronger as aliens get weaker.
<!--quoteo(post=1968672:date=Aug 30 2012, 04:51 AM:name=OnosFactory)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (OnosFactory @ Aug 30 2012, 04:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1968672"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Imba you mentioned Hydras as something the Alien Commander should want to promote.
Surely people will cyst forward and drop a crag to help the Gorgies if possible?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, I will cyst forward and put Crags up. But its not for the gorges, it for the Fades and Onos. I also wouldn't dream of dropping a Crag for a Gorge's Hydras within the first, say, 10 minutes of the game. That 15 res is just too valuable at that stage. The primary problem is that a Hydra with no support takes about a clip and a half to down. A Hydra with a Crag takes a clip and 5 eighths. Not even remotely worth it.
<!--quoteo(post=1968724:date=Aug 30 2012, 07:42 AM:name=twiliteblue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twiliteblue @ Aug 30 2012, 07:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1968724"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Guys, don't forget that Hydras are not the only structures aliens have.
Whips, Crags, and Shades can boost Hydras' effectiveness quite a lot.
Perhaps Shift and Clogs need better synergy with Hydras.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Crags do absolutely nothing to assist Hydras. They heal too little too slowly. In order to really be affective you would need to drop between 3 and 4 Crags. That's around 50 res to defend a structure that goes down in a single grenade. Too big a risk, not enough pay off in my opinion.
<!--quoteo(post=1968599:date=Aug 30 2012, 02:26 AM:name=.ADHd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (.ADHd @ Aug 30 2012, 02:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1968599"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The fact that the hydras stay after the player dies is a large enough buff for me.
In my opinion, hydras are best used to close off a 2nd hive or guarding vulnerable RT's in the early game. Now this is gonna be a lot more viable again so I am happy with the change.
<b>Hydras shouldn't be able to stop large marine balls or exo trains. They should only be useful for wittling down marines that push too far into alien territory (Before they have teched up).</b>
After that it seems hydras are just more of a support structure that might help a marine take 1 less bite to kill for skulks and etc.
The one thing I didn't like about NS1 was how viable OC spam was. You could drop the things everywhere and completely screw over the marines. I think the gorge is doing well now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aye, its just too bad no marine seems to care about it. I cant tell how many times i've put up 3x Hydras around the first harvester the khamm put out, only to see it get attacked 3mins later when im somewhere else. And by the time i get back i see a lone marine axing the last % of the Harvester with no hydras left.
The Gorge need something wich are feared by the exo. some anti mech defense, a structure that send an infestion spore to the exo, wich decrease his health to 0 and wich can only be stoped by flamethrower or full heal of the exo.
<!--quoteo(post=1968777:date=Aug 30 2012, 07:02 AM:name=AuroN2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AuroN2 @ Aug 30 2012, 07:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1968777"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i would love if hydras costed at least 2 more res, but you upped the limit by two. :) (to 5) would make me muchos happios.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
5 res to build a hydra? wow.
this almost sounds like the suggestion of a marine-only player that is trying to sabotage the design of the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1968233:date=Aug 29 2012, 08:26 AM:name=weezl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (weezl @ Aug 29 2012, 08:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1968233"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think buff hydras, no cap, and res cost is a good thing! Maybe 5 or 10 res depending on how buff they are.
What the devs are going for, with players not supposed to play versus structures but only vs other players is absurd! Playing vs structures is in no way boring/bad/negative! NS2 is a strategy game with basebuilding - do you (the devs) realize how that previously mentioned philosophy is hypocritical?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i think a hard cap should still be imposed otherwise youd have to keep hydras weak or raise the cost to balance it out. raise the cap limit per gorge to 5-6, keep them free as well. that should be all it would take to make it a usable strat again.
Why haven't there been any iterations or attempts at making the Hydra more powerful but with a limited duration? Sort of a "grenade" that can be tossed into a group of marines that lives for only a short while and costs a lot of Energy for the Gorge to spit? The upside of this is that there will be less static defenses in the game too this way, which if I'm not mistaken has always been a pet peeve for the community.
Solution: The devs don't really want Player vs structure gameplay. Keeping that in mind a way to handle long range attacks would be to give the hydra a healing ability shown by a mist around the hydra when it takes damage. More than 1 marine can still kill it easy. For close range the hydra can explode like a cyst with a cooldown which helps with marines running past it or jp if planted next to hives. Plus gorges don't need to baby sit as much.
<!--quoteo(post=1968256:date=Aug 29 2012, 06:02 PM:name=Daphisto)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Daphisto @ Aug 29 2012, 06:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1968256"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just throwing this out there....
What about free hydras, but when the gorge clicks E on them, he can upgrade them for 3 res which would make them tougher/little more powerful?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This x 1000.
I see soo many hydras die before they're done building in cases where marines suddenly rush a hive or important area. Now that hydras cost 3 res, gorges are even more reluctant to try to build them in last ditch effort scenarios.
A hybrid system like this would probably work well: -drop it for free -free ones limited at 3 to prevent spam -dies in 3 minutes unless upgraded -upgrading costs 5 res -upgrading it doubles its HP, gives it better aim and rate of fire
This makes gorges able to hold a choke even with free hydras, but only against 1, maybe 2 marines. Also solves the problems with Jetpack hive snipes, especially when Blink/Leap aren't available.
<!--quoteo(post=1968829:date=Aug 30 2012, 08:45 AM:name=Onii-chan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Onii-chan @ Aug 30 2012, 08:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1968829"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This x 1000.
I see soo many hydras die before they're done building in cases where marines suddenly rush a hive or important area. Now that hydras cost 3 res, gorges are even more reluctant to try to build them in last ditch effort scenarios.
A hybrid system like this would probably work well: -drop it for free -free ones limited at 3 to prevent spam -dies in 3 minutes unless upgraded -upgrading costs 5 res -upgrading it doubles its HP, gives it better aim and rate of fire
This makes gorges able to hold a choke even with free hydras, but only against 1, maybe 2 marines. Also solves the problems with Jetpack hive snipes, especially when Blink/Leap aren't available.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
^^ This doesn't sound like a bad idea, although I'm not keen on the idea of the free hydra dying after 3 minutes.
I'd love it if they were upgradeable by mini versions of the hive support chambers (craft/shift/shade structures). That way they act more like support structures which have a nice addition of defending itself to some degree. For example, three hydras close to eachother and upgraded with a crag mini version is the equivalent (together) as one normal crag structure.
That way it gives some extra dimension of use to hydras without necessary having to buff them combat wise to marines (and thus not increasing player vs structure combat again)
<!--quoteo(post=1968833:date=Aug 30 2012, 04:51 PM:name=MiniH0wie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MiniH0wie @ Aug 30 2012, 04:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1968833"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->^^ This doesn't sound like a bad idea, although I'm not keen on the idea of the free hydra dying after 3 minutes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Either that or make them only work when the gorge is within ~30 meters of them. They'd be only good as a minor early game barricade but you have to pay 15 res to make then decent vs bigger threats and independent for jetpack hive defense while you go off to heal fades or whatever.
@Keldorn We'll probably see alien comms doing that and working with gorges when hydras get buffed a bit. Currently it's way too risky.
<!--quoteo(post=1968816:date=Aug 30 2012, 09:02 AM:name=MiniH0wie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MiniH0wie @ Aug 30 2012, 09:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1968816"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yup, Auro2 is a gorge hater. Check out all of his past posts about it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm scared to know how much of his shouting influenced the 217 design change. :)
What might be interesting is if UWE did a poll and had like 3-5 solid design suggestions/choices for what to do with hydras. Stuff like that helps. Taking feedback based on 1 man's repeated forum posts/petitions may not get solutions that satisfy the other 99%.
<!--quoteo(post=1968846:date=Aug 30 2012, 04:22 PM:name=Daphisto)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Daphisto @ Aug 30 2012, 04:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1968846"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm scared to know how much of his shouting influenced the 217 design change. :)
What might be interesting is if UWE did a poll and had like 3-5 solid design suggestions/choices for what to do with hydras. Stuff like that helps. Taking feedback based on 1 man's repeated forum posts/petitions may not get solutions that satisfy the other 99%.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Game design is not a simple, nor intuitive process. That would be akin to posing a nuclear physics problem, and taking a poll on the right answer from a bunch of random people.
<!--quoteo(post=1968847:date=Aug 30 2012, 10:24 AM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Aug 30 2012, 10:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1968847"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Game design is not a simple, nor intuitive process. That would be akin to posing a nuclear physics problem, and taking a poll on the right answer from a bunch of random people.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I totally agree, except we are not dealing with a bunch of random people here.
I think we should buff hydras so i can finally go afk and also get tons of kills... i also think gorges shouldnt require support from the rest of its team. (i mean wtf - i clicked 15times to build some crap in a crazy tactical position only a mastermind would think of - it better be freaking invincible)
So basically i dont have to worry about marines/losing rts or any other important structure at all with 3-4 gorges in the beginning until they get gls/arcs or exos.
That would be soo awesome!!
(or at least require them to squad up in teams of 4+ to destroy my stuff - i mean its freaking 19pres is spend here..., so they should require to make a big push on this and open up all their map control for easy attacks without defense)
<!--quoteo(post=1968849:date=Aug 30 2012, 04:31 PM:name=Daphisto)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Daphisto @ Aug 30 2012, 04:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1968849"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I totally agree, except we are not dealing with a bunch of random people here.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its like people who play games and think they can be playtesters. Except now its people who play games who think they can be game designers.
<!--quoteo(post=1968852:date=Aug 30 2012, 10:42 AM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Aug 30 2012, 10:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1968852"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Its like people who play games and think they can be playtesters. Except now its people who play games who think they can be game designers.
I watch TV, doesn't mean I can make one.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The NS2 community deserves more credit than what you are giving them.
<!--quoteo(post=1968852:date=Aug 30 2012, 10:42 AM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Aug 30 2012, 10:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1968852"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Its like people who play games and think they can be playtesters. Except now its people who play games who think they can be game designers.
I watch TV, doesn't mean I can make one.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That analogy is terrible. What you should have said was I read books but that doesnt mean I can write one. Which is wrong, you can it just might not be very good. Besides I would hardly call us 'random' since were the ones who will be playing and financing the game. As for anyone being game designers, I am sure most people if questioned will be able to come up with at least some worthwhile opinions on designing a game such as this. Not everything requires a shiny degree you know, some things just require thought.
<!--quoteo(post=1968890:date=Aug 30 2012, 05:43 PM:name=1dominator1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (1dominator1 @ Aug 30 2012, 05:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1968890"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That analogy is terrible. What you should have said was I read books but that doesnt mean I can write one. Which is wrong, you can it just might not be very good. Besides I would hardly call us 'random' since were the ones who will be playing and financing the game. As for anyone being game designers, I am sure most people if questioned will be able to come up with at least some worthwhile opinions on designing a game such as this. Not everything requires a shiny degree you know, some things just require thought.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're right, but I don't think your analogy is quite right either. I think it would be somewhere inbetween. Of course, designing a game isn't as technical as building a television set, but its far more complex than writing a book. The core idea, however, is that simply because you play games, does not mean you can design one, or even come close to designing one. You need formal training and experience.
<!--quoteo(post=1968829:date=Aug 30 2012, 06:45 AM:name=Onii-chan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Onii-chan @ Aug 30 2012, 06:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1968829"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This x 1000.
I see soo many hydras die before they're done building in cases where marines suddenly rush a hive or important area. Now that hydras cost 3 res, gorges are even more reluctant to try to build them in last ditch effort scenarios.
A hybrid system like this would probably work well: -drop it for free -free ones limited at 3 to prevent spam -dies in 3 minutes unless upgraded -upgrading costs 5 res -upgrading it doubles its HP, gives it better aim and rate of fire
This makes gorges able to hold a choke even with free hydras, but only against 1, maybe 2 marines. Also solves the problems with Jetpack hive snipes, especially when Blink/Leap aren't available.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dunno about costing 5 PRes to upgrade. I'd tweak it to the 3PRes personally, but now I'm just nitpicking. Overall on the tright track imo.
<!--quoteo(post=1968846:date=Aug 30 2012, 07:22 AM:name=Daphisto)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Daphisto @ Aug 30 2012, 07:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1968846"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm scared to know how much of his shouting influenced the 217 design change. :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Minimal. Considering the community has now branded the poor fellow as and outlier oddity who can't be trusted to bring good game design to the table.
<!--quoteo(post=1968852:date=Aug 30 2012, 09:42 AM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Aug 30 2012, 09:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1968852"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Its like people who play games and think they can be playtesters. Except now its people who play games who think they can be game designers.
I watch TV, doesn't mean I can make one.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Doesn't stop you recognising a bad production decision in the TV show.
Most players have a good idea of what does not work, knowing the solution is the hard thing. They tend to just throw out ideas that would improve their perspective. A game designer needs to understand all perspectives, and the underlying problem that is the root of these issues. For that I think a poll might be somewhat useful.
Comments
Surely people will cyst forward and drop a crag to help the Gorgies if possible?
Whips, Crags, and Shades can boost Hydras' effectiveness quite a lot.
Perhaps Shift and Clogs need better synergy with Hydras.
Whips, Crags, and Shades can boost Hydras' effectiveness quite a lot.
Perhaps Shift and Clogs need better synergy with Hydras.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're asking an alien com to help boost hydra effectiveness by spending precious t.res on static structures early game to make hydras "useful".
Or did you mean late game when marines and exosuits can take down hydras like they're made of paper, and gorges shouldn't even bother with them at that point as they're easily ignored anyway.
Hydras need to work on their own first.
Whips, Crags, and Shades can boost Hydras' effectiveness quite a lot.
Perhaps Shift and Clogs need better synergy with Hydras.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The above only work if comm can work with gorges and has res to invest...a gorge should be able to set things up independantly this is what allowed the aliens such early game map control in NS1.
1 gorge with a couple of OC's could hold a corridor easily...
1 gorge and 3 hydras in NS1 does not have the same ability.
This loss of ability to lock marines out of an area is part of the reason we see such map dominance from the marines and aliens often reclaiming from 1 or at best 2 hives 3-4 min in.
I still dont see why a gorge cant build a whip variant for 15 P-Res, has similar HP to whip but fires like a hydra.
Still needs to be scaled as time progresses, otherwise marines simply get stronger as aliens get weaker.
Surely people will cyst forward and drop a crag to help the Gorgies if possible?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, I will cyst forward and put Crags up. But its not for the gorges, it for the Fades and Onos. I also wouldn't dream of dropping a Crag for a Gorge's Hydras within the first, say, 10 minutes of the game. That 15 res is just too valuable at that stage. The primary problem is that a Hydra with no support takes about a clip and a half to down. A Hydra with a Crag takes a clip and 5 eighths. Not even remotely worth it.
<!--quoteo(post=1968724:date=Aug 30 2012, 07:42 AM:name=twiliteblue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twiliteblue @ Aug 30 2012, 07:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1968724"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Guys, don't forget that Hydras are not the only structures aliens have.
Whips, Crags, and Shades can boost Hydras' effectiveness quite a lot.
Perhaps Shift and Clogs need better synergy with Hydras.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Crags do absolutely nothing to assist Hydras. They heal too little too slowly. In order to really be affective you would need to drop between 3 and 4 Crags. That's around 50 res to defend a structure that goes down in a single grenade. Too big a risk, not enough pay off in my opinion.
In my opinion, hydras are best used to close off a 2nd hive or guarding vulnerable RT's in the early game. Now this is gonna be a lot more viable again so I am happy with the change.
<b>Hydras shouldn't be able to stop large marine balls or exo trains. They should only be useful for wittling down marines that push too far into alien territory (Before they have teched up).</b>
After that it seems hydras are just more of a support structure that might help a marine take 1 less bite to kill for skulks and etc.
The one thing I didn't like about NS1 was how viable OC spam was. You could drop the things everywhere and completely screw over the marines. I think the gorge is doing well now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aye, its just too bad no marine seems to care about it.
I cant tell how many times i've put up 3x Hydras around the first harvester the khamm put out, only to see it get attacked 3mins later when im somewhere else.
And by the time i get back i see a lone marine axing the last % of the Harvester with no hydras left.
would make me muchos happios.
would make me muchos happios.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
5 res to build a hydra? wow.
this almost sounds like the suggestion of a marine-only player that is trying to sabotage the design of the game.
Maybe 5 or 10 res depending on how buff they are.
What the devs are going for, with players not supposed to play versus structures but only vs other players is absurd!
Playing vs structures is in no way boring/bad/negative!
NS2 is a strategy game with basebuilding - do you (the devs) realize how that previously mentioned philosophy is hypocritical?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i think a hard cap should still be imposed otherwise youd have to keep hydras weak or raise the cost to balance it out. raise the cap limit per gorge to 5-6, keep them free as well. that should be all it would take to make it a usable strat again.
this almost sounds like the suggestion of a marine-only player that is trying to sabotage the design of the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yup, Auro2 is a gorge hater. Check out all of his past posts about it.
The devs don't really want Player vs structure gameplay. Keeping that in mind a way to handle long range attacks would be to give the hydra a healing ability shown by a mist around the hydra when it takes damage. More than 1 marine can still kill it easy. For close range the hydra can explode like a cyst with a cooldown which helps with marines running past it or jp if planted next to hives. Plus gorges don't need to baby sit as much.
What about free hydras, but when the gorge clicks E on them, he can upgrade them for 3 res which would make them tougher/little more powerful?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This x 1000.
I see soo many hydras die before they're done building in cases where marines suddenly rush a hive or important area.
Now that hydras cost 3 res, gorges are even more reluctant to try to build them in last ditch effort scenarios.
A hybrid system like this would probably work well:
-drop it for free
-free ones limited at 3 to prevent spam
-dies in 3 minutes unless upgraded
-upgrading costs 5 res
-upgrading it doubles its HP, gives it better aim and rate of fire
This makes gorges able to hold a choke even with free hydras, but only against 1, maybe 2 marines.
Also solves the problems with Jetpack hive snipes, especially when Blink/Leap aren't available.
I see soo many hydras die before they're done building in cases where marines suddenly rush a hive or important area.
Now that hydras cost 3 res, gorges are even more reluctant to try to build them in last ditch effort scenarios.
A hybrid system like this would probably work well:
-drop it for free
-free ones limited at 3 to prevent spam
-dies in 3 minutes unless upgraded
-upgrading costs 5 res
-upgrading it doubles its HP, gives it better aim and rate of fire
This makes gorges able to hold a choke even with free hydras, but only against 1, maybe 2 marines.
Also solves the problems with Jetpack hive snipes, especially when Blink/Leap aren't available.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
^^
This doesn't sound like a bad idea, although I'm not keen on the idea of the free hydra dying after 3 minutes.
That way it gives some extra dimension of use to hydras without necessary having to buff them combat wise to marines (and thus not increasing player vs structure combat again)
This doesn't sound like a bad idea, although I'm not keen on the idea of the free hydra dying after 3 minutes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Either that or make them only work when the gorge is within ~30 meters of them.
They'd be only good as a minor early game barricade but you have to pay 15 res to make then decent vs bigger threats and independent for jetpack hive defense while you go off to heal fades or whatever.
@Keldorn
We'll probably see alien comms doing that and working with gorges when hydras get buffed a bit.
Currently it's way too risky.
I'm scared to know how much of his shouting influenced the 217 design change. :)
What might be interesting is if UWE did a poll and had like 3-5 solid design suggestions/choices for what to do with hydras. Stuff like that helps. Taking feedback based on 1 man's repeated forum posts/petitions may not get solutions that satisfy the other 99%.
What might be interesting is if UWE did a poll and had like 3-5 solid design suggestions/choices for what to do with hydras. Stuff like that helps. Taking feedback based on 1 man's repeated forum posts/petitions may not get solutions that satisfy the other 99%.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Game design is not a simple, nor intuitive process. That would be akin to posing a nuclear physics problem, and taking a poll on the right answer from a bunch of random people.
I totally agree, except we are not dealing with a bunch of random people here.
So basically i dont have to worry about marines/losing rts or any other important structure at all with 3-4 gorges in the beginning until they get gls/arcs or exos.
That would be soo awesome!!
(or at least require them to squad up in teams of 4+ to destroy my stuff - i mean its freaking 19pres is spend here..., so they should require to make a big push on this and open up all their map control for easy attacks without defense)
:PPP
Its like people who play games and think they can be playtesters. Except now its people who play games who think they can be game designers.
I watch TV, doesn't mean I can make one.
I watch TV, doesn't mean I can make one.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The NS2 community deserves more credit than what you are giving them.
I watch TV, doesn't mean I can make one.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That analogy is terrible. What you should have said was I read books but that doesnt mean I can write one. Which is wrong, you can it just might not be very good. Besides I would hardly call us 'random' since were the ones who will be playing and financing the game. As for anyone being game designers, I am sure most people if questioned will be able to come up with at least some worthwhile opinions on designing a game such as this. Not everything requires a shiny degree you know, some things just require thought.
You're right, but I don't think your analogy is quite right either. I think it would be somewhere inbetween. Of course, designing a game isn't as technical as building a television set, but its far more complex than writing a book. The core idea, however, is that simply because you play games, does not mean you can design one, or even come close to designing one. You need formal training and experience.
I see soo many hydras die before they're done building in cases where marines suddenly rush a hive or important area.
Now that hydras cost 3 res, gorges are even more reluctant to try to build them in last ditch effort scenarios.
A hybrid system like this would probably work well:
-drop it for free
-free ones limited at 3 to prevent spam
-dies in 3 minutes unless upgraded
-upgrading costs 5 res
-upgrading it doubles its HP, gives it better aim and rate of fire
This makes gorges able to hold a choke even with free hydras, but only against 1, maybe 2 marines.
Also solves the problems with Jetpack hive snipes, especially when Blink/Leap aren't available.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dunno about costing 5 PRes to upgrade. I'd tweak it to the 3PRes personally, but now I'm just nitpicking. Overall on the tright track imo.
<!--quoteo(post=1968846:date=Aug 30 2012, 07:22 AM:name=Daphisto)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Daphisto @ Aug 30 2012, 07:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1968846"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm scared to know how much of his shouting influenced the 217 design change. :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Minimal. Considering the community has now branded the poor fellow as and outlier oddity who can't be trusted to bring good game design to the table.
I watch TV, doesn't mean I can make one.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Doesn't stop you recognising a bad production decision in the TV show.
Most players have a good idea of what does not work, knowing the solution is the hard thing. They tend to just throw out ideas that would improve their perspective. A game designer needs to understand all perspectives, and the underlying problem that is the root of these issues. For that I think a poll might be somewhat useful.