Alien Commander: full time job?
Imbalanxd
Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104581Members
Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104581Members
<div class="IPBDescription">another possible avenue for asymmetry</div>So I'm sure this topic has come up a few times, but maybe it hasn't had this perspective before.
Many people think that the alien commander is somewhat boring in comparison to the marine equivalent, mainly because there isn't as much direct interaction. However, this "issue" creates the interesting scenario where a full time alien commander really isn't all that necessary. A lot of the time, alien commanders really don't do very much. There is a bit of infestation spreading and cyst dropping, but other than that, the upgrades come along once in a blue moon (or built hive), and even then the lifeform upgrades take aaaaages.
Could this maybe be another opportunity to further differentiate the two teams? I know that asymmetry for the sake of asymmetry is a bad approach but... wait a second, I don't know that! More asymmetry! I think it would be a cool concept for the marine commander to be a full time job, whereas the alien commander only spent maybe 40-50% of his game in the "chair". Maybe it could even be taken a step further, and multiple (but not simultaneous) alien commanders could be used.
The thing with alien commanding is that it typically isn't unified by some guiding strategy, you don't need permanent input, and you don't need continuity. Its kind of the perfect candidate for input from multiple people. Now, with the release just around the corner, I don't really expect for such a radical gameplay change to be considered, but I think it is an interesting concept when it comes to NS and commanding. From NS1 we think of it as a permanent role, to be interrupted only in dire circumstances. But maybe it doesn't need to be that way for the aliens?
EDIT
Reading over what I wrote, it basically sounds exactly like gorges from NS1... Hmmm...
Many people think that the alien commander is somewhat boring in comparison to the marine equivalent, mainly because there isn't as much direct interaction. However, this "issue" creates the interesting scenario where a full time alien commander really isn't all that necessary. A lot of the time, alien commanders really don't do very much. There is a bit of infestation spreading and cyst dropping, but other than that, the upgrades come along once in a blue moon (or built hive), and even then the lifeform upgrades take aaaaages.
Could this maybe be another opportunity to further differentiate the two teams? I know that asymmetry for the sake of asymmetry is a bad approach but... wait a second, I don't know that! More asymmetry! I think it would be a cool concept for the marine commander to be a full time job, whereas the alien commander only spent maybe 40-50% of his game in the "chair". Maybe it could even be taken a step further, and multiple (but not simultaneous) alien commanders could be used.
The thing with alien commanding is that it typically isn't unified by some guiding strategy, you don't need permanent input, and you don't need continuity. Its kind of the perfect candidate for input from multiple people. Now, with the release just around the corner, I don't really expect for such a radical gameplay change to be considered, but I think it is an interesting concept when it comes to NS and commanding. From NS1 we think of it as a permanent role, to be interrupted only in dire circumstances. But maybe it doesn't need to be that way for the aliens?
EDIT
Reading over what I wrote, it basically sounds exactly like gorges from NS1... Hmmm...
Comments
Can't say I've seen alot of others doing this, but I find myself plenty busy in the chair and outside as a khammander. I'm having fun optimizing all the timings.
It's rather tiresome though toddling around on my fat gorge constantly repeating "don't go commander, i'm commanding, don't go commander" into the mic.
Can't say I've seen alot of others doing this, but I find myself plenty busy in the chair and outside as a khammander. I'm having fun optimizing all the timings.
It's rather tiresome though toddling around on my fat gorge constantly repeating "don't go commander, i'm commanding, don't go commander" into the mic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The number of times I've popped out of the chair to drop hydras, only to have someone else pop in...
Really sucks in this aspect too because eject commander for aliens <u><b>still doesn't work.</b></u> -_-
So in short, the alien comm is still in a bad spot because to play it effectively you need to not play it. And that doesn't work well in pubs.
So I guess my point is the problems Imbalanxed talks about are at least somewhat due to underutilising the Kham's abilities. More strategic thinking/planning/analysis, commanding and tactical support. At least there is plenty of room for that on the Aussie serves.
Really sucks in this aspect too because eject commander for aliens <u><b>still doesn't work.</b></u> -_-
So in short, the alien comm is still in a bad spot because to play it effectively you need to not play it. And that doesn't work well in pubs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is why I'm a strong proponent of the ND comm-system in which you are the commander even if your not in the hive/cs. The only ways to be removed from comm are to resign or get ejected.
Also, I'm typically in the alien comm 90% of the time (only jumping out to defend the base/drop defensive hydras and clogs). It can be a bit boring early game when your res-starved such that your sitting around waiting for enough res, but people seem to underestimate optimizing upgrades/chamber timing and using the comm view for gathering intel (I can easily hear the footsteps/see the black smoke of marines in many areas of the map). Unless there is a compelling reason to jump out (i.e. hive under attack), you should stay in the hive imo.
Should be fixed for 218
1. Drop Early hive
2. Drop cysts to RT between new hive / current hive
3. Logout
4. Evolve to gorge
5. When you finish evolving, login to hive and you have 10 TRES.
6. Drop RT
7. Drop OC's at current hive to prevent marine spawn rushing
8. Slide to RT
9. Power build RT
10. Drop OC's at new hive
11. Power build new hive
12. Save for leap
13. Go from there :)
Lots of little things you can do as alien comm that add up
* Position drifters
* Place clogs all over your upgrade chambers to delay them being sniped
* Infestation spikes to prevent upgrade chambers being spiked (place them in a location you can block marine access
* Help build RT's and spread infestation
* Use drifters on your dedicated RT killing skulk.. faster rate of attack = RT dieing quicker
I do with their is a little more, I try not to explode cysts as I think its a bit retarded OP. I think the most important thing is not to play like its an RTS, you can actively get out and assist in combat / building / scouting / res killing.
So if you wanna put Cyst on the ceiling to make sure Marines use up ammo, Get out of the hive as the Gorge Daddy and plant them on yourself. All the things you were able to do in NS1 as a Gorge, you can now do only as the Gorge Daddy Overlord >)
Also you'll have more health to tank more damage but spit is weaker so you better have your hydra babies out.
Greatly miss this also.
Don't miss this at all. Cysts still need to be crept up to wherever you want to build, rather than both Cysts and Drifters.
I agree. Drifters to build structures was an arbitrary time sink with no thematic or game play relevance.
Having them being a time sink/require attention to be effective was the whole idea. The way you can just drop everything makes alien commander most effective when hes not commanding. Why have alien commander in the game, if the most effective way of alien commanding is not to do it?
I dont know if requiring there to be a alien commander at all times to be optimal because he actually has to do stuff would make it more discouraging to have one though. If he had a critical role that would require attention and had an impact on the teams success like the marine comm has, how would it make it more tedious and less important to have in the game at all? Should go all the way with the alien comm, or cut it out of the game, not have it there just so someone can log in for 5 seconds to start researching blink and jump out again.
This.
Never find a shortage of things to do.
Never find a shortage of things to do.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
^ This!
If you actually command your team instead of playing for yourself you have enough to do. This goes this far, that you can help a group of skulks that advancing a marine group from two different sides, to attack at the exactly same time. Sure, the skulks could look at their map to time the attack, but its better to have one person that times and voice the command to attack.
Youre not really contributing anything outside the short amount of time it takes to drop a structure/click a research every now and then. Its simply better to not have alien commander at all, but instead any member of the team just going in and clicking a button and then logging out again.
In pub games you need to lead the aliens and it is difficult to maintain a "everybody goes com when needed" tactic.
In comp games you don't need to lead every alien and it is much easier to have many part time coms instead of one dedicated.
It's not bad to have different game play in pub / comp. Thats why I don't see a problem there.
In pub games you need to lead the aliens and it is difficult to maintain a "everybody goes com when needed" tactic.
In comp games you don't need to lead every alien and it is much easier to have many part time coms instead of one dedicated.
It's not bad to have different game play in pub / comp. Thats why I don't see a problem there.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But why cant it be like marine commander, and actually have a role that is required on the game always, no matter if pub or comp setting.
At the moment its incredibly poorly designed, when its so useless that its better not to actually play it.
Maybe having drifters speed up building construction? Would introduce more micro but also damages the gorge.
Introducing more buildings seem to much work now.
Edit: Oh, ripped of from another thread: Decoy buildings shouldn't be much work to implement.
Then there would need to be something that requires ongoing attention from the comm to keep the alien economy/expansion running. We got cysts yeah, but atleast at the moment it simply isnt enough.
Foresight for additional scouting is pretty neat, but at the moment its not so good/usefull that it outweights joining the fight with a lifeform instead. Maybe it could show the spotted marines/buildings on hivesight for everyone, for a short time.
There was talk about drifter parasite, maybe that would be nice. It would require attention from comm to get the scouting, instead of just placing the drifter one time and then forgetting it.
You can drop lifeform eggs for team res in the next build i think. But there definitely should be more to do than that.
From my experience, alien commanding is about dropping as few structures as possible. If an alien commander drops any structure other than a cyst, resource tower, hive or shell (which may seem like a few options, but not when you take into account that the cyst isn't really a structure, and the resource tower and hive can only be placed in very specific locations) within the first 5-10 minutes of the game, you can pretty much write it off as a loss.
What I might like would be less powerful structures, but made cheaper. Or actually just a frikking reason to drop half the structures. Crags heals such a little, there only real use is when you are able to drop 4 or 5 straight away in the same place. Shifts are so situational that there is hardly ever a reason to drop them. Shades are arguably useful (though not really with how pathetic the camouflage they offer is), but they come at the cost of horribly underpowered upgrade options.
Long story short, when a marine commander drops a structure, he feels like he's making progress, when an alien commander does the same, he feels like he's done something wrong.