fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1961953:date=Aug 13 2012, 01:22 AM:name=Hellstrof)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hellstrof @ Aug 13 2012, 01:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1961953"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As for me, I'm quoting this game until the release.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, that's it guys. The game has been quoted. It was fun while it lasted.
Yep, quite hilarious how spell checker works sometimes. But I'm not native, as you can see, so it fine with me for the time being.
Alongside, it was a boring day, so I decided to play a couple of games just for giggles. It seems dominations made marines somehow lazy and careless and they started to lose sometimes. If only there was a some usage limit for gates and assist what marines' commander can afford (and JPs for 20 res or so), it may be not so bad.
Oh, and it would be really great to have an ability to exchange resources or making an advanced eggs for teammates. Playing mostly skulks and gorges, so since onos is useless now it quite a waste to have 100+ res what you don't really need.
<!--quoteo(post=1960201:date=Aug 10 2012, 03:47 AM:name=afx333)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (afx333 @ Aug 10 2012, 03:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1960201"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->main menu. what are those icons and roman numerals under my steam name&above play button.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1962257:date=Aug 13 2012, 01:28 PM:name=darkfiction)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (darkfiction @ Aug 13 2012, 01:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1962257"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd like to know what those are as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The answer is in this quote from NS2HD.
<!--quoteo(post=1961299:date=Aug 11 2012, 05:57 PM:name=Strayan (NS2HD))--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Strayan (NS2HD) @ Aug 11 2012, 05:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1961299"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We hope that (in a universe where we acquire more time) that area will display little icons depending on your status. For example, Squad 5, NS1 Playtester, NS2 Playtester, Developer, Beta player, 'I was at PAX' DLC, etc etc. Then, you can select one to play with next to your name.
There are bigger fish to fry right now so at the moment they shall remain window dressing :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Marine expansion is broken this patch. As a marine commander, I am easily taking 2/3 of the map while as alien commander I am forced to bunker down and research carapace before we can expand very far.
Lone marines are doing huge damage to alien expansion, with cysts and harvester being so weak. Aliens cannot give enough pressure to keep marines from expanding.
So far in most the games I've played, if aliens do not win in 5 minutes, then they lose. Marines get grenades, tech explosion with jetpacks and become relentless.
The inability to use 2 upgrades from the same hive tree is also stupid. Regen is no longer overpowered when used with carapace. All other combinations pose no issue. Regen is now a last-minute upgrade, and sometimes never gotten at all during a match.
Whips are also far less useful this build now that they need maturity. Shades also appear to not entirely block out scans, as I have been ARC'ed while spamming disorientation.
<!--quoteo(post=1962202:date=Aug 13 2012, 07:10 AM:name=MuckyMcFly)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MuckyMcFly @ Aug 13 2012, 07:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1962202"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The red hive/com chair thing needs removing, looks rubbish and makes the game look tacky.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I actually really like it. It could be slightly smaller and more transparent, but otherwise it's definitely beneficial.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hive sight broken? Annoying.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> New version coming in next patch.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Parasited green marines? Weird.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Placeholder.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Build bars, look beyond tacky, not in keeping with the other "gritty" visuals.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Placeholder.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Health bars - Pointless, looks tacky again - Pulls you out of the games look/feel.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Placeholder.
<!--quoteo(post=1962259:date=Aug 13 2012, 06:39 PM:name=IeptBarakat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ Aug 13 2012, 06:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1962259"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The answer is in this quote from NS2HD.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1962267:date=Aug 13 2012, 02:02 PM:name=TimMc)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TimMc @ Aug 13 2012, 02:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1962267"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Marine expansion is broken this patch. As a marine commander, I am easily taking 2/3 of the map while as alien commander I am forced to bunker down and research carapace before we can expand very far.
Lone marines are doing huge damage to alien expansion, with cysts and harvester being so weak. Aliens cannot give enough pressure to keep marines from expanding.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've also noticed this.
The math I don't seem to understand is this:
weaker harvester + long spawn waves = balanced?
I think weak harvesters came about due to Skulks being able to cover the map faster than Marines.
Well if that's the case, then what's the point of long spawn waves, which completely negates any chance the skulks have in map coverage, not to mention the easily spawn-killable eggs that pop up when no one's even cleared the wave-timer yet.
Instead I'd suggest keeping the weaker harvesters, but decreasing the spawn wave time so Skulks and other lifeforms can actually respond to the harassed harvesters quicker.
As for healing, Aliens would have to spend 10 res on a Gorge to heal a really weak and vulnerable <!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->Harvester<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->, whereas Marines can just spend 5 res on a welder to weld their own, more formidable <!--coloro:#48D1CC--><span style="color:#48D1CC"><!--/coloro-->Resource Tower<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->.
Alien expansion is very frustrating. Marines are able to kill cyst chains and harvesters so easily now. Cysts just melt away w/ the welder or FT and don't even think about putting down a new one unless there are no marines within a 100 meters.
As Marines it's very common to see them rush out and be able to put down 3-4 extractors before aliens can even get 1 harvester started and if there isn't a gorge nearby, you have to wait till the harvester grows fully before getting res. Usually by the time the first harvester is grown there's already a marine on it chopping it down w/ his axe...
Aliens are balanced when you have good players that know how to take map control. Most marine wins in pubs are when the commander doesn't know to place his harvestors in protected positions so a single marine no matter how much of a noob he is can kill one, since all that the aliens seem to do is go fight one on ones or rush the marine base one at a time. Marines also have power nodes instead of cysts which take seconds to put up and a long time to destroy. Not to mention unlike harvestors, extractors physically cannot be built without a marine or two in the room.
Alien expansion is very frustrating. Marines are able to kill cyst chains and harvesters so easily now. Cysts just melt away w/ the welder or FT and don't even think about putting down a new one unless there are no marines within a 100 meters.
As Marines it's very common to see them rush out and be able to put down 3-4 extractors before aliens can even get 1 harvester started and if there isn't a gorge nearby, you have to wait till the harvester grows fully before getting res. Usually by the time the first harvester is grown there's already a marine on it chopping it down w/ his axe...
Alien wave spawn needs some serious work now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Alien expansion is very frustrating. Marines are able to kill cyst chains and harvesters so easily now. Cysts just melt away w/ the welder or FT and don't even think about putting down a new one unless there are no marines within a 100 meters.
As Marines it's very common to see them rush out and be able to put down 3-4 extractors before aliens can even get 1 harvester started and if there isn't a gorge nearby, you have to wait till the harvester grows fully before getting res. Usually by the time the first harvester is grown there's already a marine on it chopping it down w/ his axe...
Alien wave spawn needs some serious work now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd dare to say that marine sprint is probably more of the issue. The fact that from the beginning of the match you can traverse the map almost as fast as a JP and harass the initial cysts and harvesters and keep spawning and doing it over and over and over with very little downtime is a bit much. Not saying that wave spawning is perfect but in this case I'm more liable to suspect sprint as the issue. Marines can get up in the aliens face all too quickly. Nerf or remove sprint, make marine movement more snappy/responsive, and fix crouch jump.
<!--quoteo(post=1962337:date=Aug 13 2012, 10:42 PM:name=Industry)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Industry @ Aug 13 2012, 10:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1962337"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd dare to say that marine sprint is probably more of the issue.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1962337:date=Aug 13 2012, 03:42 PM:name=Industry)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Industry @ Aug 13 2012, 03:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1962337"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd dare to say that marine sprint is probably more of the issue. The fact that from the beginning of the match you can traverse the map almost as fast as a JP and harass the initial cysts and harvesters and keep spawning and doing it over and over and over with very little downtime is a bit much. Not saying that wave spawning is perfect but in this case I'm more liable to suspect sprint as the issue. Marines can get up in the aliens face all too quickly. Nerf or remove sprint, make marine movement more snappy/responsive, and fix crouch jump.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1. People keep citing that aliens physical expansion is balanced because skulks run faster than marines.
This is not true.
Marines sprint faster than skulks. They can rush to defend faster, their buildings are stronger, they attack from range. Aliens only get a speed advantage once leap appears, and by that time the game is decided.
Harvesters need to be stronger, or alien commanders need some way to facilitate harvester defense. I have no problem with rapid marine expansion as long as aliens are capable of it aswell.
Edit: Spawn times are another issue. Marines respawn instantly, so there is no penalty to doing suicide runs into the alien base - destroying upgrades, disrupting cyst chains and killing half-built harvesters. Aliens don't do this because their waves are so slow. Aliens run out and try to hide in corners, pick off these suicidal marines as they rush around capping rts and disrupting expansion.
I can't believe the gorges belly slide cost energy now, and hydras gonna cost them p.res next patch? Yup can safely say I will never gorge again lol I really liked the limit idea for them. At least with the lerk I can understand making flying cost energy (as painful as that is to say since I love being lerk)
Must say love the fact that you don't lose your upgrade when the structure dies though, was highly annoying losing something without realizing it, also makes it just that more important to try and stay alive to not lose it.
All in all the game is looking great and have had many great games (both winning and losing) but I really don't get the reasoning for some of these changes
AurOn2COOKIES! FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS!AustraliaJoin Date: 2012-01-13Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
i anything ns2 is truly underpriced for alot of reasons. namely the fact its UNIQUE and the fact that is SOURCE MATERIAL IS BEING RELEASED. You don't hear alot of games being released these days where you can MAKE THE HELL OUT OF MODS WITH. right? i mean most of them are hardcoded to hell, and mods are a nogo. and you pay up to $100 dollars for them.. and you get half, even a third of the content you will be getting in ns2.
<!--quoteo(post=1962477:date=Aug 14 2012, 02:12 PM:name=player)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ Aug 14 2012, 02:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1962477"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They're making suggestions for balance-improvement, that's what betas are for, what the ###### is wrong with you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is only so many times the same thing can be brought up, I'm sure its been taken on board. Doesn't it concern you thoughtful posts get lost in this?
<!--quoteo(post=1962526:date=Aug 14 2012, 06:16 AM:name=AuroN2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AuroN2 @ Aug 14 2012, 06:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1962526"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i anything ns2 is truly underpriced for alot of reasons. namely the fact its UNIQUE and the fact that is SOURCE MATERIAL IS BEING RELEASED. You don't hear alot of games being released these days where you can MAKE THE HELL OUT OF MODS WITH. right? i mean most of them are hardcoded to hell, and mods are a nogo. and you pay up to $100 dollars for them.. and you get half, even a third of the content you will be getting in ns2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh no, not hard coded! They hardcode it so everyone can get acceptable performance, rather than allowing 5% of players (and even that is being generous) to muck around and allow lerks to carry gorges. I wonder which one I'd prefer...
Comments
Well, that's it guys. The game has been quoted. It was fun while it lasted.
Alongside, it was a boring day, so I decided to play a couple of games just for giggles. It seems dominations made marines somehow lazy and careless and they started to lose sometimes. If only there was a some usage limit for gates and assist what marines' commander can afford (and JPs for 20 res or so), it may be not so bad.
Oh, and it would be really great to have an ability to exchange resources or making an advanced eggs for teammates. Playing mostly skulks and gorges, so since onos is useless now it quite a waste to have 100+ res what you don't really need.
what are those icons and roman numerals under my steam name&above play button.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like to know what those are as well.
The answer is in this quote from NS2HD.
<!--quoteo(post=1961299:date=Aug 11 2012, 05:57 PM:name=Strayan (NS2HD))--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Strayan (NS2HD) @ Aug 11 2012, 05:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1961299"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We hope that (in a universe where we acquire more time) that area will display little icons depending on your status. For example, Squad 5, NS1 Playtester, NS2 Playtester, Developer, Beta player, 'I was at PAX' DLC, etc etc. Then, you can select one to play with next to your name.
There are bigger fish to fry right now so at the moment they shall remain window dressing :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lone marines are doing huge damage to alien expansion, with cysts and harvester being so weak. Aliens cannot give enough pressure to keep marines from expanding.
So far in most the games I've played, if aliens do not win in 5 minutes, then they lose. Marines get grenades, tech explosion with jetpacks and become relentless.
The inability to use 2 upgrades from the same hive tree is also stupid. Regen is no longer overpowered when used with carapace. All other combinations pose no issue. Regen is now a last-minute upgrade, and sometimes never gotten at all during a match.
Whips are also far less useful this build now that they need maturity. Shades also appear to not entirely block out scans, as I have been ARC'ed while spamming disorientation.
I actually really like it. It could be slightly smaller and more transparent, but otherwise it's definitely beneficial.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hive sight broken? Annoying.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
New version coming in next patch.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Parasited green marines? Weird.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Placeholder.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Build bars, look beyond tacky, not in keeping with the other "gritty" visuals.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Placeholder.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Health bars - Pointless, looks tacky again - Pulls you out of the games look/feel.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Placeholder.
Cool, thanks!
Lone marines are doing huge damage to alien expansion, with cysts and harvester being so weak. Aliens cannot give enough pressure to keep marines from expanding.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've also noticed this.
The math I don't seem to understand is this:
weaker harvester + long spawn waves = balanced?
I think weak harvesters came about due to Skulks being able to cover the map faster than Marines.
Well if that's the case, then what's the point of long spawn waves, which completely negates any chance the skulks have in map coverage, not to mention the easily spawn-killable eggs that pop up when no one's even cleared the wave-timer yet.
Instead I'd suggest keeping the weaker harvesters, but decreasing the spawn wave time so Skulks and other lifeforms can actually respond to the harassed harvesters quicker.
As for healing, Aliens would have to spend 10 res on a Gorge to heal a really weak and vulnerable <!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->Harvester<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->, whereas Marines can just spend 5 res on a welder to weld their own, more formidable <!--coloro:#48D1CC--><span style="color:#48D1CC"><!--/coloro-->Resource Tower<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->.
Alien expansion is very frustrating. Marines are able to kill cyst chains and harvesters so easily now. Cysts just melt away w/ the welder or FT and don't even think about putting down a new one unless there are no marines within a 100 meters.
As Marines it's very common to see them rush out and be able to put down 3-4 extractors before aliens can even get 1 harvester started and if there isn't a gorge nearby, you have to wait till the harvester grows fully before getting res. Usually by the time the first harvester is grown there's already a marine on it chopping it down w/ his axe...
Alien wave spawn needs some serious work now.
Alien expansion is very frustrating. Marines are able to kill cyst chains and harvesters so easily now. Cysts just melt away w/ the welder or FT and don't even think about putting down a new one unless there are no marines within a 100 meters.
As Marines it's very common to see them rush out and be able to put down 3-4 extractors before aliens can even get 1 harvester started and if there isn't a gorge nearby, you have to wait till the harvester grows fully before getting res. Usually by the time the first harvester is grown there's already a marine on it chopping it down w/ his axe...
Alien wave spawn needs some serious work now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1 from me :)
Alien expansion is very frustrating. Marines are able to kill cyst chains and harvesters so easily now. Cysts just melt away w/ the welder or FT and don't even think about putting down a new one unless there are no marines within a 100 meters.
As Marines it's very common to see them rush out and be able to put down 3-4 extractors before aliens can even get 1 harvester started and if there isn't a gorge nearby, you have to wait till the harvester grows fully before getting res. Usually by the time the first harvester is grown there's already a marine on it chopping it down w/ his axe...
Alien wave spawn needs some serious work now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd dare to say that marine sprint is probably more of the issue. The fact that from the beginning of the match you can traverse the map almost as fast as a JP and harass the initial cysts and harvesters and keep spawning and doing it over and over and over with very little downtime is a bit much. Not saying that wave spawning is perfect but in this case I'm more liable to suspect sprint as the issue. Marines can get up in the aliens face all too quickly. Nerf or remove sprint, make marine movement more snappy/responsive, and fix crouch jump.
Always has been, always will be.
IronLung Rambos!
running 800m in less then 20sek :P
+1. People keep citing that aliens physical expansion is balanced because skulks run faster than marines.
This is not true.
Marines sprint faster than skulks. They can rush to defend faster, their buildings are stronger, they attack from range. Aliens only get a speed advantage once leap appears, and by that time the game is decided.
Harvesters need to be stronger, or alien commanders need some way to facilitate harvester defense. I have no problem with rapid marine expansion as long as aliens are capable of it aswell.
Edit: Spawn times are another issue. Marines respawn instantly, so there is no penalty to doing suicide runs into the alien base - destroying upgrades, disrupting cyst chains and killing half-built harvesters. Aliens don't do this because their waves are so slow. Aliens run out and try to hide in corners, pick off these suicidal marines as they rush around capping rts and disrupting expansion.
Must say love the fact that you don't lose your upgrade when the structure dies though, was highly annoying losing something without realizing it, also makes it just that more important to try and stay alive to not lose it.
All in all the game is looking great and have had many great games (both winning and losing) but I really don't get the reasoning for some of these changes
There is only so many times the same thing can be brought up, I'm sure its been taken on board.
Doesn't it concern you thoughtful posts get lost in this?
Oh no, not hard coded! They hardcode it so everyone can get acceptable performance, rather than allowing 5% of players (and even that is being generous) to muck around and allow lerks to carry gorges. I wonder which one I'd prefer...