Hive/Com chair sight Discussion.
antacid
Join Date: 2007-08-07 Member: 61821Members, NS2 Playtester
Join Date: 2007-08-07 Member: 61821Members, NS2 Playtester
<div class="IPBDescription">How do you feel about this feature?</div>The concept is simple, when somebody on the team sees a hive or a comm chair, it creates a red Icon that is visible to every player on the team for the rest of the game.
This icon is meant to "guide" new players as to the location of the hive / comm chair, and to give an idea of how many hives there are.
So what are your thoughts on this added feature?
The official UW stance on this feature is
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Glowing red hives and cc icon's are here to stay, sorry. They will probably be decreased a bit in size and maybe made a little less intense, but they are necessary for players to know where to go, and what the objective is. Every FPS game has something like this. Maybe it will be added as an option to turn off later.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What are your thoughts?
This icon is meant to "guide" new players as to the location of the hive / comm chair, and to give an idea of how many hives there are.
So what are your thoughts on this added feature?
The official UW stance on this feature is
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Glowing red hives and cc icon's are here to stay, sorry. They will probably be decreased a bit in size and maybe made a little less intense, but they are necessary for players to know where to go, and what the objective is. Every FPS game has something like this. Maybe it will be added as an option to turn off later.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What are your thoughts?
Comments
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You'd think the maps were randomly generated, and that the average playing time is going to be about a minute and a half. It's clutter that disorientates more than it clarifies.
Every FPS game doesn't have a an RTS component either, although this one seems to be forgetting it. Way points? Voice chat? Hello?
Exactly my thoughts. If i don't use the C map and instead use the icons as 'intended'.
Oh, there's an objective i need to go to over there in elevator transfer?
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/DN9Tg.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Wait a second... is it in repair room?
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/8NUcr.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
The same problem happens even more obviously in summit where you are at one techpoint and can't tell whether the CC/hive icon is in crossroads or the other side of the map.
So what's the mini-map for if you could have that hive info in the mini-map instead of having more junk on your screen?
Please give us a toggle option.
This is all that it probably needed at this point.
- "they are necessary for players to know where to go"
The map does a much better job at that. After all it actually shows the path to the hive or cc, the icons don't.
- ", and what the objective is."
First of all, going straight to the hive or cc is rarely a good idea. Players should follow the team's strategy. Secondly, it takes not more than 5 games of NS2 to realize that hives and ccs are spawn points and therefore important objectives. So the icons become useless clutter after a very short time.
- "Every FPS game has something like this."
Not really.
eg. This is a hive and a comm chair, you must find and destroy all of these to win teh round / press "C" to use the mini map to find your way around the map. You get teh point. I know your trying to help the noob learn. But its not like we are playing with 7 years olds that need help whipping there as s e s. You learn with time played, if you even want to learn.
Who the hell cares?
Who the hell cares?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I do. Why is it needed? All new players before TB found there way around.
Either an option to disable it, or remove it all together.
But after a couple of games, you get to know the maps, communicate properly (buy a mic!) and all and then it's just... distracting and (imho) takes away from the atmosphere.
So, make it a toggle in the options menu or something, and we're all happy!
I'm not sure, but this fact might have been overlooked during the design of the red icons.
<b>However</b>, this feature brings one good addition to the game. It informs the players that the location of an enemy stronghold has been found. I fully endorse other people's suggestions to make this a toggle but I wish to suggest a third option: Make the red icon show up briefly, 3 seconds maybe, make sure the player is made aware that a hive/CC has been found and then fade it out, only keeping it on the minimap (where it should ALWAYS be visible. I can not for the life of me understand why it isn't already).
Also, UWE representatives; you shouldn't so lightly brush off suggestions of the people who play this game actively or even competitively. If they claim some recent addition detract from the fun of the game by changing some mechanic, intended or unintended, that really benefited the game's enjoyability, you should take note. I'm not only referring to your "It's here to stay, live with it" attitude towards the complaints on this issue, but also to the uproar from players testifying that the game lost a lot of team-orientation by having armories restore armor. With a reaction like this, it <i>is</i> possible that people aren't complaining just for the sake of complaining.
Whether you think the hive and comm sight is good or bad is your own personal choice, I won't question that. I will, however, question the reasoning behind your choice. As far as I can see, there is absolutely no reason to be this up in arms about something so insignificant to experienced players.
Ask yourself why you don't want it in the game, or why you demand the ability to disable it. You may learn something about yourself.
Edit
As for the explanation of "clutter", I find that laughable quite frankly. Its a small red icon that is placed behind everything except walls. You might as well just say that walls are clutter then.
Ask yourself why you don't want it in the game, or why you demand the ability to disable it. You may learn something about yourself.
Edit
As for the explanation of "clutter", I find that laughable quite frankly. Its a small red icon that is placed behind everything except walls. You might as well just say that walls are clutter then.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
. It does not truely show you where the hive/comm chair is. You have a mini map that it could be in. The game comes with 2 way to tell others where a hive is [enter key] = chat . [left alt] is for talking if you have a mic. If you can toggle it, its not a big deal. But if its always gonna be there it is. Like i said above, do people need to be shown how to wipe there asses in the morning, or where there mouth is??
and as for this "You may learn something about yourself."imba... I learned that i learned this game without it. "Mommy wow im a big kid now *song*"
If a new player is so lost he can't use the map then knowing where the hive is, is the least of his problems, he can find his way around using the map and following other players. A red thing in the middle of the screen kinda looks like a waypoint, but he is not supposed to follow that and try to hit the hive alone anytime (which might be the reaction of a new player seeing that).
I preffer to be able to toggle it between off, map, and overlay, being map the default.
You have to think about indicators within the context of the situation!
I propose this on screen indicator only come in to view when you are looking in the direction and fade out of view after "x" amount of seconds. Over time you will understand something interesting is at that looking angle and your muscle memory will start to take over in terms of orientation within the game field.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe it will be added as an option to turn off later.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
why act so upset as if they never listen etc. bla bla bla, he said they might add an option to turn it off later.
(if you ask me though, Im sure they will. Every single game that I know off allows you to turn of "new player hints and tips")
Doubt it.
p.s. of course I also agree that if it shows up a a 'hivesight' icon, it should also always be visible on the minimap. I think this was just looked over...
In one game, only myself and one other marine were actually trying to secure anything (additional CCs and RTs). The remaining 5 players were all chain rushing the shiny hive icon on the minimap, which led to the alien Khamm taking over the entire map. The worst part is that with all the suicidal rushing they weren't even bothering to cap and hold the RT between Warehouse and Repair (despite having a constant 2-3 marines there).
Considering most commanders will call out hive locations over voice/in chat even if the marine that finds the hive doesn't bother doing so, having that icon feels pretty useless. It takes even more teamplay away from the Commander since the game is providing this clear target for people. Why would I go to the other side of the map and built an RT when I could go this way to destroy the enemy hive? It's flawed logic in terms of how NS actually works, but that's how many people will/do see it.
STOP HOLDING HANDS. I'm sick of this by the rails crap. stop holding hands and stop simplifying the game for the sake of new players! if they can't take the complexity of the game, they never will like it to begin with!
What about instead putting it on the map? I use the map a lot to see where action is in pub games (rts going down etc)[so not a big fan of the blur either], but if you HAVE to get somethign like this, then obviously it should be on the map.
I guess the game Cory is referring to 'as all games has something like this' is battlefield 3 with the com-stations. Only difference is that those objectives are often more linear in their approach, where, as said, the NS2 maps often are circular/square which leads to confusion as to where the actual thing is.
Get rid of it. And if you care about competative, make it toggle, so it can be removed. There's a reason people in SC2 play on lowest quality.
I do like the concept. I just don't want it on my screen personally, hence the desire for an option to turn it off.