Marine melee
GreenFlame
Join Date: 2011-03-17 Member: 86860Members
Join Date: 2011-03-17 Member: 86860Members
<div class="IPBDescription">a tweak suggestion to make it more interesting/reliable but not OP</div>I really would like the rifle melee to be bit stronger and not spammable at the same time, I know marine gameplay isn't about melee, but if it's made properly it might have a place in the game. I'd like the secondary rifle attack to:
<ul><li>have more realistic animation, it shall be really faster and it should really look like it smashes the enemy body</li><li>affect all life forms</li><li>knockback farther and do bit more damage
Like if enemy is in the air it gets 25 damage and the knocback, if grounded then it gets 30 damage to compensate the knockback
Onoses, Fades and Gorges don't get the knockback due to their weight(due to being cute in Gorge case)</li><li>cause slight blur and decreased alien rate of fire (swipes, bites, spikes, spits) for a short amount of time
(maybe only to grounded opponents and maybe instead of increased damage)</li><li>make it not spammable:
first two strikes working normally
the third doesn't have blur + RoF decrease and short knockback
the fourth doesn't have blur + RoF decrease and short to no knockback, and the attack itself gets slower rate of fire and slower animation that's used now
Over some time it again gets to work the normal way</li></ul>
Those tweaks could give a marine an opportunity to slow enemy attack a bit and win some time to either fall back for cover or finish the enemy or at least it makes more sense to use the attack, in the current implementation it makes no sense, too weak and the only good thing - the knockback - happens quite rarely and often it is not really much use, often I just switch to the axe instead.
And I can add I was pretty fine with the previous implementation where rifle melee inflicted 35 damage, I think I was fine with it even when I was skulk. Anyway, please, do something about the way it works now, please, someone =)
And another note, why do marines use the Switch Axe? I'd say a Machete fits the role more, it seems to be more comfortable for combat and good for chopping Growth like Kharaa structures. I know it may be just not the time to work on a new model and that's a lot to ask from the Developers, but maybe in the future?
What do you think, guys? =)
<ul><li>have more realistic animation, it shall be really faster and it should really look like it smashes the enemy body</li><li>affect all life forms</li><li>knockback farther and do bit more damage
Like if enemy is in the air it gets 25 damage and the knocback, if grounded then it gets 30 damage to compensate the knockback
Onoses, Fades and Gorges don't get the knockback due to their weight(due to being cute in Gorge case)</li><li>cause slight blur and decreased alien rate of fire (swipes, bites, spikes, spits) for a short amount of time
(maybe only to grounded opponents and maybe instead of increased damage)</li><li>make it not spammable:
first two strikes working normally
the third doesn't have blur + RoF decrease and short knockback
the fourth doesn't have blur + RoF decrease and short to no knockback, and the attack itself gets slower rate of fire and slower animation that's used now
Over some time it again gets to work the normal way</li></ul>
Those tweaks could give a marine an opportunity to slow enemy attack a bit and win some time to either fall back for cover or finish the enemy or at least it makes more sense to use the attack, in the current implementation it makes no sense, too weak and the only good thing - the knockback - happens quite rarely and often it is not really much use, often I just switch to the axe instead.
And I can add I was pretty fine with the previous implementation where rifle melee inflicted 35 damage, I think I was fine with it even when I was skulk. Anyway, please, do something about the way it works now, please, someone =)
And another note, why do marines use the Switch Axe? I'd say a Machete fits the role more, it seems to be more comfortable for combat and good for chopping Growth like Kharaa structures. I know it may be just not the time to work on a new model and that's a lot to ask from the Developers, but maybe in the future?
What do you think, guys? =)
Comments
But since melee is probably not going anywhere I would opine that your suggestion is too complex, it simply needs to work as advertised (atm it behaves rather weirdly).
I can understand to an extent regarding the flamer and Grenade Launher but the shotgun and pistol? those should have a melee swing as well.
in the thick of combat, switching to the pistol is quicker than reloading your AR/main weapon. seems silly that you cant pistol whip someone but you can rifle butt them
1dominator1, I see your point, but then I don't get what's the point of the attack, as I said, I'd rather switch to the axe in most cases.
Fartbake, the melee comes in when the enemy is not at the pistol-whip range, I think that won't make it too dull.
Well, I'd like to know the point of the Developers, is the role of the attack to cool down the heat of fight and have a chance to fight back/to finish off wounded skulk? In most cases when I use that attack skulk neither slows down nor dies and proceeds chomping even if I hit him in the face. At the times when it inflicted 35 damage it was rather nice, I'd say, but now the attack doesn't seem to make sense.
Do you guys think the attack is still useful? Maybe at least rise it to 25-30, and, perhaps, make knockback happen to Lerk too(just for sake of realism/fun, though it affects balance as well). And if nothing of those, well, a bit faster hit animation would be nice =)
Sorry if I sound too harsh, the Game is just fantastic, especially a lot of fun in Build 215, UWE is doing no less than Great! =)
1dominator1, I see your point, but then I don't get what's the point of the attack, as I said, I'd rather switch to the axe in most cases.
Fartbake, the melee comes in when the enemy is not at the pistol-whip range, I think that won't make it too dull.
Well, I'd like to know the point of the Developers, is the role of the attack to cool down the heat of fight and have a chance to fight back/to finish off wounded skulk? In most cases when I use that attack skulk neither slows down nor dies and proceeds chomping even if I hit him in the face. At the times when it inflicted 35 damage it was rather nice, I'd say, but now the attack doesn't seem to make sense.
Do you guys think the attack is still useful? Maybe at least rise it to 25-30, and, perhaps, make knockback happen to Lerk too(just for sake of realism/fun, though it affects balance as well). And if nothing of those, well, a bit faster hit animation would be nice =)
Sorry if I sound too harsh, the Game is just fantastic, especially a lot of fun in Build 215, UWE is doing no less than Great! =)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I just find it annoying that if I want to quickly melee someone I MUST have the AR out... or pull out my hatchet/welder which is another precious few seconds (which quite often you NEED those seconds to attack or else your Skulk food)
personally I find the Rifle butt handy. Ive killed many a Skulk with it thanks to me running out of ammo when he gets too close but a rifle butt or 2 is enough to finish him/it off if it keeps attacking.
that said, a minor damage buff sounds fine. but i'm sceptical when it comes to adding any additional mechanics, it should remain a last resort and not a viable combat tactic (imo). limiting the usage will not counterbalance this, you will very rarely be able to attempt 4 hits while a skulk is already biting your legs off...
<ul><li>A radius around the marine of about 3m (5-6m with leap) is the Skulks domain, where he should be at an advantage</li><li>At a distance of about 3-6m (6-10m with leap I guess) is the neutral distance, where both the marine and the Skulk are equal with a slight edge to the marine nearing the longer distance</li><li>Beyond 6 meters (10 with leap) is where the marine shines with the rifle</li></ul>
The rifle butt was implemented to give the marines a last ditch effort for when they are ambushed or out of ammo and is fairly hard to land in the heat of battle, still giving the Skulk an advantage. I'm not a fan though, play Skulk mostly and am not happy when I get a rifle butt to the face :P
Now leap and shotgun are basically tied to each other, however if the shotgun also had a bash attack like the rifle it would simply be too powerful. You need to use the shells instead to ward of the Skulkies, which is already plenty scary if it lands!
^ Range vs Melee is what this game is all about, if you are able to undo all the Skulks hard work by slapping him across the hallway and doing damage to him while your at it, it is too powerful and not really a last ditch effort any more.
Like Laosh'Ra said, it used to be quite similar to what you're describing and was found to be way too powerful. Even with the worse performance and hitreg back then, can you imagine what it would be like with the current performance. Which is WAAY better then what it was, when this was in the game I might add :P
I also think that rifle butt should do damage, but it should never be able to kill the alien - so it would always remain with 1point of health at least.
It just doesnt make sense to me that an alien can take 20 bullets, but a rifle butt kills it?
Well, yes, maybe it would actually too powerful unlike the thread says. But what about this, does it sound acceptable?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Do you guys think the attack is still useful? Maybe at least rise it to 25-30, and, perhaps, make knockback happen to Lerk too(just for sake of realism/fun, though it affects balance as well). And if nothing of those, well, a bit faster hit animation would be nice =)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Also maybe make it light damage type but increase the damage so it works to only when you're finishing off the enemy. And again, faster/more powerful-looking hit animation would make it look better =)
And to schkorpio, I'd say if the attack pushes farther and does less damage it would be rather realistic, but I think then it would make skulk run to marine second time which would be hard to survive and can become repetitive. But basically it is what I wanted, a tad farther knockback but also stronger damage and kind of stun to delay enemy attacks in the next few seconds. But maybe it was too much, likely it was. Also Skulk dies at the 8th bullet or the 4th riflebutt(without carapace), I think.
marines are not supposed to fight in melee combat in the first place, so rather than a melee buff, i'd rather see a base damage buff to assault rifles and slightly longer range for shotties.
marines are not supposed to fight in melee combat in the first place, so rather than a melee buff, i'd rather see a base damage buff to assault rifles and slightly longer range for shotties.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The damage of rifle and shotties is fine, its the ###### hitreg that kills it.
If that is not possible, I would REALLY like to see the "stun-effect" removed, completely!
No one likes to not be able to move.
And same goes for that blur effect. Tone it down or remove it.
Remove melee, another skill less frustrating addition.
The lerk should NEVER want to be in a marines face(IMO), the only way to truly stop that is to have the marine melee
actually cause the lerk to have a screwed up flight pattern for a few seconds or cause it to fall out of the air all together.
The melee should probably have a smaller diameter too so it's not as easy to land.
Idk if it effecting lerks is a good idea.