Nano spam
gamester_5
Join Date: 2008-04-17 Member: 64094Members
Join Date: 2008-04-17 Member: 64094Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Over the top</div>I had taken a 1 month break from NS2 and come back to non stop nano spam. It is unplaybale that rate of nano that is going on. I am sure it has been hashed over before but I have not been on the forums in a month either.
I will wait until the nano gets fixed and I will come back then.
I will wait until the nano gets fixed and I will come back then.
Comments
+1
Is this a cooldown that is controllable by the player (e.g. building more CC's reduces the cd) or is it some shallow fixed cd that doesn't scale with player numbers.
I don't know, do you experience has much crag/enzyme/heal spam as nanoshield/mepdack spam in game ?
If so then probably some of those should be removed.
I would first remove the umbra clould that follows players, because it doesn't look good (with fluid dynamic it would be cool, but that's for NS3). Then enzyme because I never saw it used really, and I don't think AI units are a good idea when the core of your game is to replace rts AI units with real players.
Crag is entirely defensive ability. You cannot drop and build them in the battlefield.
Enzyme... hardly ever see that used. The drifters die too quickly.
All of this opposed to medpack/nanoshield spam, which happens constantly.
Tbh, I perfer it to be dropable on marines. Again, this was one of the things where <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=119120" target="_blank">energy just worked perfectly fine</a>. It works in the mod aswell, though I prefer it to be dropable on marines in a nonspammable way.
How many times have you actually seen enzyme used in pub play vs nanoshield/medpack spam? If enzyme was removed, I doubt any Alien player would even bat and eye.
Nanoshield (w/ medpack spam) makes fights completely one sided and completely sucks any enjoyment out of the FPS side of this game. It makes someone who's bad godlike, and that shouldn't happen. I'm all for enzyme meeting the cutting board in fair trade that nanoshield gets axed as it should.
Nanoconstruct needs to be axed as well, or Marines need to be balanced with nanoconstruct in mind. That means phase gates need to take 20 seconds to build with nanoconstruct, not 3ish.
Well not necessarily, it's similar to the problem with ARC and whip spam. If there were more t.res sinks lategame, you wouldn't even need cooldowns. Again I would like to point to the example of your standard RTS' economy model, you are NOT supposed to be floating on res in any stage of the game. Granted it's a little more tricky in the NS 2 environment where the RTS model doesn't require you to 'invest' in the actual troops, I don't see why such philosophy couldn't be upheld.
But anyway, I welcome cooldowns as A solution, but it's definitely not THE solution. Coming up with more and better lategame t.res sinks, or expanding the game's tech tree so that you only rarely exhaust all tech paths in your average game would be a much more solid fix. (Since that way you would also address things like ARC, whip, etc spam and generally improve the lategame)
Nano-shield doesn't have much tactical depth, just nano-shield your marines when they get attacked. A nano-shielded marine do not play differently than a normal marine.
Just compare it with, I don't know, a nano-shield that would cover only the left part of the marine (like a real shield), then the marine would have to take a good position and to make some moves to block a bite (block then fire, block again, then fire), and the skulks could also go around it and bite the marine in the ass.
I played a gather the other day where 2 skulks and a lerk could not kill 1 0/0 LMG marine while all 3 landed bites on him consistently for ~5sec. He then reloaded and killed both skulks and drove the lerk away, saving the marine RT.
I just watched a scrim where 4 skulks rushed marine main base while only 1 marine was present at the game start (marines had no obs up at this point). Should have been an "oh ######" moment for marines right? Nooope. I /facepalmed as I watched the marine kill 1 skulk with LMG/pistol, and then literally just sit there crouched and AXE 3 skulks.
I could name several other examples but you get the idea.
<u>How</u>, in any way, shape, or form, is that kind of artificial skill handicap considered acceptable at ANY time in a game that aims to be competitive?
Except you can kill the gorge/crag/drifter providing those buffs to prevent them. Last I checked you couldn't kill the commander in the same fashion
I just watched a scrim where 4 skulks rushed marine main base while only 1 marine was present at the game start (marines had no obs up at this point). Should have been an "oh ######" moment for marines right? Nooope. I /facepalmed as I watched the marine kill 1 skulk with LMG/pistol, and then literally just sit there crouched and AXE 3 skulks.
<u>How</u>, in any way, shape, or form, is that kind of artificial skill handicap considered acceptable at ANY time in a game that aims to be competitive?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This, all of this. Seems like anything you write is pulled out of my mind, Rant, and once again I'll agree with you. I'm not going to praise myself here; But I'm a pretty good alien player. As a skulk with Cara, I was attacking a JP shotgun marine with nano-spam/medpack spam ( Once he'd land of course ), and I landed at least 9 bites until I had to retreat due to the other nano/JP marines that were coming to back him up. This is ridiculous. Maybe if there was an ability that'd make the alien attacks stronger? Then again, that'd be unfair for a team with an idle comm ( on either side! ). This nanoshield and medpack spam should go, instead of buffing the aliens to their level. And I could go on with how the jetpack needs a lot of nerfing, but I'm not going there on this topic.
This.
But I doubt it...
Though I would definitely support it, I've come to accept that the nano-shield concept is pretty broken on players. Just doesn't belong in an FPS environment imo.
I'm not saying that they are necessarily "equal" but they are both cast-able buffs.
I call for parity between the two.
IMO, be it offensive or defensive, cast-able buffs should be reworked to be counter-able, like killing a drifter - or be removed.
I'm fine with aliens having an offensive buff and marines having a defensive buff, but the method of delivery needs to be somewhat similar, if not in their ability to be counter-able and equally effective.
The reasons why you see enzyme less than nanoshield are purely due to this lack of parity occurring. If a mac needs to be present in the area to cast nanoshield, i think this would take care of a lot of the issues we see. And/Or implement said cool feature of half a bubble shield in front of the marine etc.
As far as medpacks go: I think as long as the costs are tuned, it should be fine considering the tres-free healing that aliens get from gorges - which yes are vulnerable and not always on frontlines but thats a) just as fallible as a marine commander not ontop of his game and b) aliens have mobility and can make it to gorges generally pretty quick <i>if coordinated.</i>
To me, the real issue is scaling medpacks to player counts.. its a real tough solution to come up with... and dont you dare derail this into an RFK séance. :-P There's far better solutions out there with far less downsides .. just need to think of them.
This sounds fun actually. I like that idea. This way we would most likely only see nanoshield when the arc-train starts rolling lategame, which should be ok for balancing.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As far as medpacks go: I think as long as the costs are tuned, it should be fine considering the tres-free healing that aliens get from gorges - which yes are vulnerable and not always on frontlines but thats a) just as fallible as a marine commander not ontop of his game and b) aliens have mobility and can make it to gorges generally pretty quick <i>if coordinated.</i><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yea, I think the comparison is a bit off
a) The comm being on top of his game should always be considered for balance
b) I think the difference is, that marines can be healed during the fight, while the alien usually has to survive it to be heal afterwards.
That being said, as a NS1 player I don't have too many problems with meds, seeing how they worked in the past.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To me, the real issue is scaling medpacks to player counts.. its a real tough solution to come up with... and dont you dare derail this into an RFK séance. :-P There's far better solutions out there with far less downsides .. just need to think of them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think it's too much of deal. Marines already get an advantage by having a bigger team/more groups imo.
However, if you compare to the nano-shield, the ÃœberCharge is granted as a "reward" mechanism for the person who healed enough teammates in a 1-2 minute timespan, It's impossible to spam because of this, and is justifiably powerful, considering it requires two players to use, alot of time to charge and it gives off a good "<i>OH SHI-</i>" moment for the other team who sees somebody barge in whilst invincible, or turn invincible in your face, causing you to flee, regroup and counterattack afterwards.
What I'm trying to say or suggest is that the nanoshield should take something similar into account, it should be given as a reward, <i>not be distributed willy-nilly like candy at halloween,</i> I would think that maybe after a marine has survived for x minutes <i>while in combat</i>, or murdered x amount of khaaraa in x amount of time, give the commander the option to use nano-shield on him? or like suggested before, add a 30 second or more cooldown before being able to nano again. But I seriously think you should only be able to use it on a single unit, or tie it to the # of command centers, the more command centers you have, the more units you can simultaneously use it on?
just my 37¢
I can definitely agree there. I think some of the buffs are just plain too strong as well. If it was 25% damage reduction instead of 50%, and 50-100% build speed instead of 400% it might be more reasonable when encountered in gameplay instead of a commander issued "i-win" button. I'm not sure about enzyme, it could be that it's not being thoroughly abused yet but I haven't seen similar imbalances with it (it's often countered with nano-shield as well).