Nano spam

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Comments

  • GORGEousGORGEous Join Date: 2012-02-19 Member: 146762Members, NS2 Map Tester
    <!--quoteo(post=1946902:date=Jun 27 2012, 02:50 AM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Jun 27 2012, 02:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1946902"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To me, the real issue is scaling medpacks to player counts.. its a real tough solution to come up with... and dont you dare derail this into an RFK séance. :-P There's far better solutions out there with far less downsides .. just need to think of them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    To scale medpack cost by player count, you could just write some simple function for it. IE:

    10 (arbitrary cost to be balanced) / [total players on marine team - 1 (commander)] = Cost per medpack

    So if you had 10 players total, you would have:

    10v10: 10 / (10-1) = 1.11 tres per medpack
    8v8: 10 / (8-1) = 1.43 tres per medpack
    6v6: 10 / (6-1) = 2 tres per medpack


    Here you have the scaling where 1 medpack's cost is proportional to how much of the team's collective health it is restoring. I'm not sure if this is necessary, though. As another poster mentioned, marines gain more power than aliens do from increasing player count. It doesn't hurt to have this somewhat tampered by an increase in cost per real-benefit in medpacks as player count increases.
  • TimMcTimMc Join Date: 2012-02-06 Member: 143945Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1946973:date=Jun 27 2012, 09:52 AM:name=GORGEous)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GORGEous @ Jun 27 2012, 09:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1946973"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To scale medpack cost by player count, you could just write some simple function for it. IE:

    10 (arbitrary cost to be balanced) / [total players on marine team - 1 (commander)] = Cost per medpack

    So if you had 10 players total, you would have:

    10v10: 10 / (10-1) = 1.11 tres per medpack
    8v8: 10 / (8-1) = 1.43 tres per medpack
    6v6: 10 / (6-1) = 2 tres per medpack


    Here you have the scaling where 1 medpack's cost is proportional to how much of the team's collective health it is restoring. I'm not sure if this is necessary, though. As another poster mentioned, marines gain more power than aliens do from increasing player count. It doesn't hurt to have this somewhat tampered by an increase in cost per real-benefit in medpacks as player count increases.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Too complicated. Decisions on spending tres need to be static, so the commander knows from memory what everything costs.

    Plus fractions of a tres is bad.
  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1946808:date=Jun 26 2012, 02:45 PM:name=Xarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xarius @ Jun 26 2012, 02:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1946808"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I love meds personally, they're a great mechanic, just like in NS1. They require precise commander micro and don't replenish ammo so it doesn't turn you practically invulnerable like the med + nano combo does.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I guess you've never seen a marine standing of a pile of medpacks axe three skulks to death.
  • mushookeesmushookees Join Date: 2008-03-26 Member: 63967Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1946807:date=Jun 26 2012, 09:38 PM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Jun 26 2012, 09:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1946807"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To be frank, I think nanoshield, medpacks, and ammopacks need to be changed to an area of effect/over time effect from its current instant and spammable nature. I know people complain about nanospam, but medspam is as bad if not worse and ammospam is op with respect to GLs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    good idea, medpacks should be used to heal a player, not stop him from dieing.

    as for ammo packs, perhaps make ammo packs for each weapon and adjust the res cost ?
  • mushookeesmushookees Join Date: 2008-03-26 Member: 63967Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1946930:date=Jun 27 2012, 12:36 PM:name=Vladimir Van Vodka)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vladimir Van Vodka @ Jun 27 2012, 12:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1946930"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think they tried coming up with a similar mechanic to the medic's ÃœberCharge ability in TF2, like a 10 second invulnerability, albeit slightly nerfed (less time and not <i>complete</i> invulnerability) allowing a single marine to push through or defend successfully?

    However, if you compare to the nano-shield, the ÃœberCharge is granted as a "reward" mechanism for the person who healed enough teammates in a 1-2 minute timespan, It's impossible to spam because of this, and is justifiably powerful, considering it requires two players to use, alot of time to charge and it gives off a good "<i>OH SHI-</i>" moment for the other team who sees somebody barge in whilst invincible, or turn invincible in your face, causing you to flee, regroup and counterattack afterwards.

    What I'm trying to say or suggest is that the nanoshield should take something similar into account, it should be given as a reward, <i>not be distributed willy-nilly like candy at halloween,</i> I would think that maybe after a marine has survived for x minutes <i>while in combat</i>, or murdered x amount of khaaraa in x amount of time, give the commander the option to use nano-shield on him? or like suggested before, add a 30 second or more cooldown before being able to nano again. But I seriously think you should only be able to use it on a single unit, or tie it to the # of command centers, the more command centers you have, the more units you can simultaneously use it on?

    just my 37¢<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    what about having energy on the CC that only replenishes with kills. So the more kills the team gets the more energy the cc gets to use nanoshield ?
  • JoracyJoracy Join Date: 2012-06-17 Member: 153367Members
    Having Mac's be required might be interesting, but I feel like it would be more annoying to the commander, and go the way of enzyme and just not be used much. A higher cost, less effect/effect over time for medpacks/ammo that hits a small area is also interesting though. If you increased the cost it might be less useful for that one lone marine who keeps soloing his way into the hive, but still be efficient (although perhaps in a less bursty way as it might heal slower/perhaps reduce damage less) for a group or 3 or whatever marines working together and staying close.
  • {GGs} Chicken{GGs} Chicken Join Date: 2011-11-22 Member: 134663Members, NS2 Map Tester
    Should make it structure only with a higher cost or just scrap the whole idea. The whole concept is terrible. Either die as a skulk or run away as a higher life form. As a JP marine I especially feel like a ######. HERP DERP LOOK MA IM INVINCIBLE
  • DrFlammableDrFlammable Join Date: 2012-04-18 Member: 150705Members
    how do people feel about the idea of making nano more skill based for the commander? keep the duration/cost/effectiveness ratio the same while decreasing the duration of nanoshield/construct to like 2 seconds or something. you can't "set it and forget it" unless you've got pretty high apm as a commander.

    maybe instead of going from 50% to 25% damage reduction on nano put it at 33% and decrease cost and duration significantly.

    could also toy with the idea of making it completely block x attacks before expiring. like 1 or 2. makes lerks or anything with fast attack/low energy cost attacks effective at burning out nano shields. might be able to upgrade nanoshield to block 3-4 attacks at the arms lab kinda like catalyst packs (in that you're researching a commander-based aid ability). or just make nano-shield/construct have to be researched from the get go (probably at the arms lab).
  • FlayraFlayra Game Director, Unknown Worlds Entertainment San Francisco Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 3Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer
    Lots of good discussion in here.

    Nano has been buffed a few times over the past couple months and it's finally too much. I think the right fix is to reduce it's duration (as opposed to cost or effect), so we're trying that out now.

    I like the idea of having more of an "agent" for the marine commander's abilities (I love how Enzyme works on the Drifter) so it can be prevented by players, but that's a big game-changer that I don't think we want to introduce now. Med/ammo anywhere is a core capability for the marine team and I don't think that could be changed without introducing massive change.
  • DJPenguinDJPenguin Useless Join Date: 2003-07-29 Member: 18538Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1947152:date=Jun 27 2012, 09:25 PM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Jun 27 2012, 09:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1947152"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->(I love how Enzyme works on the Drifter)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    and it's rarely used. if i ever see it in action it's to support a group of onos charging a marine base power node or chair.
  • SannomSannom Join Date: 2012-03-16 Member: 148862Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I've never seen enzyme being used at all. And I thought we were going in the right direction by eliminating the drifters for building things, ... And marines don't need to make MACs go around to dispense med packs or nano shields, do they? Not that I want symmetry, but I'd like something fair on the other hand.
  • GodofThunderGodofThunder Join Date: 2011-12-13 Member: 137815Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1946930:date=Jun 28 2012, 01:36 AM:name=Vladimir Van Vodka)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vladimir Van Vodka @ Jun 28 2012, 01:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1946930"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But I seriously think you should only be able to use it on a single unit, or tie it to the # of command centers, the more command centers you have, the more units you can simultaneously use it on?

    just my 37¢<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Exactly what I just said in another post among other things. Tieing the rewards to command centers/Hive's is what needs to happen. The more CC's/Hives the more reward you get. The focus on Multiple CC's/Hives is whats lacking.
  • Dictator93Dictator93 Join Date: 2008-12-21 Member: 65833Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1947152:date=Jun 27 2012, 08:25 PM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Jun 27 2012, 08:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1947152"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Lots of good discussion in here.

    Nano has been buffed a few times over the past couple months and it's finally too much. I think the right fix is to reduce it's duration (as opposed to cost or effect), so we're trying that out now.

    I like the idea of having more of an "agent" for the marine commander's abilities (I love how Enzyme works on the Drifter) so it can be prevented by players, but that's a big game-changer that I don't think we want to introduce now. Med/ammo anywhere is a core capability for the marine team and I don't think that could be changed without introducing massive change.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Just came in to say I like your levelheadedness and willingness to listen. Nano is obviously a little too buff and needs a change. Mepack spam and ammo spam though feels appropriate to the marines imo. It is a micro of its own right.
  • VeNeMVeNeM Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 928Members
    ive been saying nanoshield is OP and game breaking since its inception.

    this will prolly get deleted
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