<!--quoteo(post=1944031:date=Jun 16 2012, 10:06 PM:name=fmpone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fmpone @ Jun 16 2012, 10:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1944031"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Played a couple gather games, and thought I'd get everyone's opinion since there was a ton of discussion ongoing. Thanks guys.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Biggest ones I've noticed others discussing are the siege locations. You can siege Locker Rooms from Central Access and Tram Departures from East Wing.
It seems B210 increased arc range, so maybe the map was designed with the smaller radius in mind?
Aliens shouldn't be able to spawn in Locker. If it remains like that, the doors probably need to be removed from locker to courtyard. Welding that hurts aliens very badly.
Some of the ARC siege locations to hive might need to be looked at.
Courtyard is too wide open for a key point of the map. Probably needs pillars to break it up or something else.
though I think I forgot about the vent from locker/onos bar to central access, so it might not be so bad :x
Also Ball Court and especially Terminal RTs are very easily snipable by marines. In terminal you can pretty much 100% deny the RT if you have JPs, even though alien hives will be rare there it is something to consider. The holes in the glass are a big part of this.
Courtyard also seems extremely hard to take back if marines gain foothold there (and they can arc half the map from it), it's way too wide open and LoS/jetpack friendly. Too little cover to close distance.
Courtyard is to important, if marines get a phase gate there they can basically deny the whole map. It allows them to pressure all key areas on the map at the same time.
I also agree with the comments above about the weldable doors and locker room, locker room might be fine if it is not a starting hive(and if central access arc location is fixed).
+1 everything posted above me. Couple of places I noticed getting stuck were in Generator on the catwalk between the railing and sloped pillars on the side and in Maintenance on the large pipes in the holes on either side where it meets the sloped wall (hopping down to gen). Wanted to upload pictures but image site won't cooperate.
I've gone ahead and added a lot more cover into courtyard and landing pad. The weldable doors were an oversight (long story) I wouldn't worry about them causing problems for much longer, they'll be addressed. Ideally I'd like to remove all of the doors. The siege spots are being fixed as well. I'm also adding in a lot more vents on generator side to help with skulks flanking.
And ballcourt has always been a nightmare cover wise, sorry about that.
I'm pretty sure the gather players would also participate. I know I'd love to.
TBH I also think most rooms are just too easy for jetpacks, since the ceiling is very high. You could say it's an issue with aliens only having poor counters to jp, but also the map have so many locations where jp becomes viable/godlike.
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1944237:date=Jun 17 2012, 05:48 PM:name=dux)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dux @ Jun 17 2012, 05:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1944237"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ideally I'd like to remove all of the doors.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's more of a door implementation problem than a door location problem.
Aliens not being able to do much against jetpackers seems like a game problem as well. It's going to restrict the game "map visuals" -wise a lot if you can't have open spaces. I can't recall if there were any wide open area maps in NS1 where it worked.
<!--quoteo(post=1944357:date=Jun 17 2012, 09:41 PM:name=Skie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Skie @ Jun 17 2012, 09:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1944357"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Aliens not being able to do much against jetpackers seems like a game problem as well. It's going to restrict the game "map visuals" -wise a lot if you can't have open spaces. I can't recall if there were any wide open area maps in NS1 where it worked.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aliens do need a counter to jetpacks other than luck with leap and blink. Pres cost on them is too low now due to the fact when they were made into a fade counter in an eariler build. Advanced armory time probably needs to be increased again as well. If that all happens, I think the wide open hive areas would work.
Thanks for the feedback guys, this helps a lot. Oli's been hitting a lot of the simpler fixes, and we're putting a lot of thought into some of the bigger ones. Please keep the posts coming, and try and nudge people who you here complaining in game about stuff to come to this thread and post their (constructive) feedback.
We also think it would be great to get you guys some WIP versions of the map to test out on your server / servers in between the regular patch releases. Oli can get some versions into your hands for that.
<!--quoteo(post=1944582:date=Jun 18 2012, 11:38 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Jun 18 2012, 11:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1944582"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thanks for the feedback guys, this helps a lot. Oli's been hitting a lot of the simpler fixes, and we're putting a lot of thought into some of the bigger ones. Please keep the posts coming, and try and nudge people who you here complaining in game about stuff to come to this thread and post their (constructive) feedback.
We also think it would be great to get you guys some WIP versions of the map to test out on your server / servers in between the regular patch releases. Oli can get some versions into your hands for that.
thanks.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Awesome! Well take the current version of veil as well if its not too much trouble... ;)
ArcL!ghtJoin Date: 2007-11-27Member: 63031Members, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester
I think that weldable doors and their locations are not that big of a problem as it is with alien ability to bust doors early.
Paying 75 res to go onos and bust down door seems a bit too much. Making doors being able to go down by gorge bile seems like a better option, and also cutting down welded doors hp for about 50%.
<!--quoteo(post=1944776:date=Jun 19 2012, 03:08 AM:name=ArcL!ght)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ArcL!ght @ Jun 19 2012, 03:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1944776"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think that weldable doors and their locations are not that big of a problem as it is with alien ability to bust doors early.
Paying 75 res to go onos and bust down door seems a bit too much. Making doors being able to go down by gorge bile seems like a better option, and also cutting down welded doors hp for about 50%.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How about just making it so infestation opens doors again? Thus welding a door rightoutside an alien hive wouldn't do anything, but welding a door right outside marine base would mean that aliens need either a) lots of cysts or b) onos to get through.
<!--quoteo(post=1944909:date=Jun 19 2012, 12:49 PM:name=GORGEous)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GORGEous @ Jun 19 2012, 12:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1944909"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How about just making it so infestation opens doors again? Thus welding a door right outside an alien hive wouldn't do anything, but welding a door right outside marine base would mean that aliens need either a) lots of cysts or b) onos to get through.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That would be to easy i think. I think doors should have a high hp like a lil lower then a comm chair. Any one or thing can chew threw them. But they can't be re-welded till fully taken down.
I am not sure if it has been discussed or brought up yet, but there's a way that lerks and jetpackers can "bug" into the ceiling above cafeteria and tram departures. I am not sure how it's done or what exactly it is (I was commander that game so couldn't see exactly), but I played a game last week where a lerk was perched up there and unable to be killed until I researched jetpacks - then my fellow marines went up to try and kill him and were unable to for some reason or another.
I was told it was a known bug/exploit. Just want to make sure it's cleaned up.
You get stuck in the vent from tram to court after evolving. I morphed to gorge in this vent and could not move afterwards. Dont know if there is a problem with the other vents aswell.
Nice map btw, just the performance is still really bad. :-/ summit is the only one that runs acceptable.
//Edit Just had one more thought after submitting the post and thinking about the performance. The thing that my game freezes every 3 sec for 1-2 sec particuarly often happen in lockerrooms and terminal. Maybe there is something wrong with the occlusion culling in this areas.
Yeah getting stuck is still pretty fiddly, you have to go around the map adding extra collision to everything. The onos stuck in maint should be fixed for the next version as well as the vents.
Could there be an auto unstick feature? Something like, if you haven't moved in the past 10 seconds, your collision box shrinks slightly until you do move?
Comments
Biggest ones I've noticed others discussing are the siege locations. You can siege Locker Rooms from Central Access and Tram Departures from East Wing.
It seems B210 increased arc range, so maybe the map was designed with the smaller radius in mind?
Some of the ARC siege locations to hive might need to be looked at.
Courtyard is too wide open for a key point of the map. Probably needs pillars to break it up or something else.
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/Drakuu/sploitz.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
though I think I forgot about the vent from locker/onos bar to central access, so it might not be so bad :x
Also Ball Court and especially Terminal RTs are very easily snipable by marines. In terminal you can pretty much 100% deny the RT if you have JPs, even though alien hives will be rare there it is something to consider. The holes in the glass are a big part of this.
Courtyard also seems extremely hard to take back if marines gain foothold there (and they can arc half the map from it), it's way too wide open and LoS/jetpack friendly. Too little cover to close distance.
I also agree with the comments above about the weldable doors and locker room, locker room might be fine if it is not a starting hive(and if central access arc location is fixed).
Couple of places I noticed getting stuck were in Generator on the catwalk between the railing and sloped pillars on the side and in Maintenance on the large pipes in the holes on either side where it meets the sloped wall (hopping down to gen). Wanted to upload pictures but image site won't cooperate.
And ballcourt has always been a nightmare cover wise, sorry about that.
TBH I also think most rooms are just too easy for jetpacks, since the ceiling is very high. You could say it's an issue with aliens only having poor counters to jp, but also the map have so many locations where jp becomes viable/godlike.
That's more of a door implementation problem than a door location problem.
I can't recall if there were any wide open area maps in NS1 where it worked.
I can't recall if there were any wide open area maps in NS1 where it worked.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aliens do need a counter to jetpacks other than luck with leap and blink. Pres cost on them is too low now due to the fact when they were made into a fade counter in an eariler build. Advanced armory time probably needs to be increased again as well. If that all happens, I think the wide open hive areas would work.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/XgAZG.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
We also think it would be great to get you guys some WIP versions of the map to test out on your server / servers in between the regular patch releases. Oli can get some versions into your hands for that.
thanks.
--Cory
We also think it would be great to get you guys some WIP versions of the map to test out on your server / servers in between the regular patch releases. Oli can get some versions into your hands for that.
thanks.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Awesome! Well take the current version of veil as well if its not too much trouble... ;)
Paying 75 res to go onos and bust down door seems a bit too much. Making doors being able to go down by gorge bile seems like a better option, and also cutting down welded doors hp for about 50%.
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/Drakuu/dockingsploit.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Paying 75 res to go onos and bust down door seems a bit too much. Making doors being able to go down by gorge bile seems like a better option, and also cutting down welded doors hp for about 50%.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How about just making it so infestation opens doors again? Thus welding a door rightoutside an alien hive wouldn't do anything, but welding a door right outside marine base would mean that aliens need either a) lots of cysts or b) onos to get through.
That would be to easy i think. I think doors should have a high hp like a lil lower then a comm chair. Any one or thing can chew threw them. But they can't be re-welded till fully taken down.
I was told it was a known bug/exploit. Just want to make sure it's cleaned up.
<img src="https://dl.dropbox.com/u/414134/2012-06-23_00001.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
You get stuck in the vent from tram to court after evolving. I morphed to gorge in this vent and could not move afterwards. Dont know if there is a problem with the other vents aswell.
Nice map btw, just the performance is still really bad. :-/ summit is the only one that runs acceptable.
//Edit
Just had one more thought after submitting the post and thinking about the performance. The thing that my game freezes every 3 sec for 1-2 sec particuarly often happen in lockerrooms and terminal. Maybe there is something wrong with the occlusion culling in this areas.