The importance of welders
.ADHd
Join Date: 2012-02-18 Member: 146565Members
Join Date: 2012-02-18 Member: 146565Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Something the community should consider</div>In NS2 you barely see them used unless in a dire situation (CC at 12%). I find this to be quite saddening due to the fact that marines can weld eachother when in the field to save on res for armories. All you need is a welder in every fireteam to weld hurt marines and then a few medpacks from the commander to get everyone back up to full strength. It takes a lot of coordination but when used well it's extremely powerful.
When I say extreme I mean it. Me and my team have been practicing using welders instead of forward armories and it's paying off. I also see in pubs that 90% of the time when welders are researched NOBODY is buying them even when they have 60+ pres. It's very frustrating to see such a useful tool so overlooked. I say that regular armories shouldn't be allowed to repair marines broken armor but only welders. This gives incentive to the team to actually use them. When the armory is upgraded to advanced then I would say it would be fair to allow it to repair broken armor.
People often will ignore buying welders at all and instead go for the more useful robotics factory. Macs keep my base up to date and repaired, but at cost of having no armor repairs on the field. Armories shouldn't be so powerful as they are unless upgraded.
When I say extreme I mean it. Me and my team have been practicing using welders instead of forward armories and it's paying off. I also see in pubs that 90% of the time when welders are researched NOBODY is buying them even when they have 60+ pres. It's very frustrating to see such a useful tool so overlooked. I say that regular armories shouldn't be allowed to repair marines broken armor but only welders. This gives incentive to the team to actually use them. When the armory is upgraded to advanced then I would say it would be fair to allow it to repair broken armor.
People often will ignore buying welders at all and instead go for the more useful robotics factory. Macs keep my base up to date and repaired, but at cost of having no armor repairs on the field. Armories shouldn't be so powerful as they are unless upgraded.
Comments
There are already incentives to use them. You mentioned them up above..
Armories that can't repair armor would present a huge fundamental imbalance in the game (every alien regenerates on infestation/near the hive, but marines have to wait to get an armory AND research welders AND spend pres on them). How would you correct that imbalance? If you do, you're designing more stuff for the sake of putting a band-aid fix on your first suggestion, and if you don't...the alien winrate won't be dropping to a reasonable level any time soon.
I personally buy a welder often when I play, because it's dirt cheap and really useful like you said. If other people don't use them, start educating them. I don't think it's a balance problem or a lack of incentives. People just haven't discovered everything in this game yet, and they won't for a while. Case in point: I never see silence used in pubs, and I *never* see a silence-first build.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=118351" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=118351</a>
I don't know how I feel about removing armories ability to repair armor. However I do think it will go a long way in making marines stick together more. Right now the average marine player runs away from the group towards the armory after the first scratch on his armor.
Armories that can't repair armor would present a huge fundamental imbalance in the game (every alien regenerates on infestation/near the hive, but marines have to wait to get an armory AND research welders AND spend pres on them). How would you correct that imbalance? If you do, you're designing more stuff for the sake of putting a band-aid fix on your first suggestion, and if you don't...the alien winrate won't be dropping to a reasonable level any time soon.
I personally buy a welder often when I play, because it's dirt cheap and really useful like you said. If other people don't use them, start educating them. I don't think it's a balance problem or a lack of incentives. People just haven't discovered everything in this game yet, and they won't for a while. Case in point: I never see silence used in pubs, and I *never* see a silence-first build.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well because of the fact that aliens auto heal / heal faster in their own area it presents the ever important asymmetric gameplay element. Aliens can get free health and armor while marines have to use teamwork to aquire it. So, a way of balancing it is to make the welder repair marine armor faster, and to give the marine commander the ability to drop welders at a reduced cost of pres (or allowing the commander to drop welders AT ALL).
It's not a huge balance issue but rather an issue of people not taking advantage of things that are useful. Which is a major problem in the NS community these days... willful ignorance and desire to be spoon fed is rampant.
If you remove regular armories from repairing armor you get a game with more depth and teamwork needed on marines. It was the same in NS1. Armories NEVER repaired armor which is why teams often had a dedicated welder in base during turtle matches. Also it takes away stupid COD gameplay elements of encouraging people to camp and run back to base for more armor and to raise their KDR rather than win.
I see elements like these as ways for the developers to cater to a more casual audience of gamers. Think of regenerating health in FPS games and how huge it got. I don't want to see aspects like this in NS.
Is that why 90% of the threads on the forum follow this formula?
<ul><li>A thing in the game bothered me</li><li>I know! I will redesign the fundamentals of Natural Selection so that the thing does not bother me anymore, when much simpler and more reasonable options are available</li><li>I will post my design on the forums and Charlie will hire me and I can start paying off my debt</li></ul>
<!--quoteo(post=1934239:date=May 7 2012, 07:44 PM:name=.ADHd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (.ADHd @ May 7 2012, 07:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1934239"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well because of the fact that aliens auto heal / heal faster in their own area it presents the ever important asymmetric gameplay element. Aliens can get free health and armor while marines have to use teamwork to aquire it. So, a way of balancing it is to make the welder repair marine armor faster, and to give the marine commander the ability to drop welders at a reduced cost of pres (or allowing the commander to drop welders AT ALL).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or you could stick with what you already have, so that the marines don't have to all put their guns down in order to have a chance of surviving the second wave of idiotic skulk rushing 30 seconds into the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1934239:date=May 7 2012, 07:44 PM:name=.ADHd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (.ADHd @ May 7 2012, 07:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1934239"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's not a huge balance issue but rather an issue of people not taking advantage of things that are useful. Which is a major problem in the NS community these days... willful ignorance and desire to be spoon fed is rampant.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you would make it a huge balance issue if your suggestion was implemented
<!--quoteo(post=1934239:date=May 7 2012, 07:44 PM:name=.ADHd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (.ADHd @ May 7 2012, 07:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1934239"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you remove regular armories from repairing armor you get a game with more depth and teamwork needed on marines. It was the same in NS1. Armories NEVER repaired armor which is why teams often had a dedicated welder in base during turtle matches. Also it takes away stupid COD gameplay elements of encouraging people to camp and run back to base for more armor and to raise their KDR rather than win.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
no, you get less depth because you took something away that was there before
then you put something in its place (faster X, cheaper Y) that doesn't add depth, and in fact takes away from it in order to make your original idea viable (the 'obvious path' becomes more obvious, easier to follow and so on - instead of marines always getting armor from armories, they always get them from welders, and the end result is that aliens overrun them with zero effort <i>even more often</i>)
you're suggesting something that would almost certainly dumb down NS2, drive down marine winrates even further and create more timesinks for the developers when they already have lots to do
<!--quoteo(post=1934239:date=May 7 2012, 07:44 PM:name=.ADHd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (.ADHd @ May 7 2012, 07:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1934239"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I see elements like these as ways for the developers to cater to a more casual audience of gamers. Think of regenerating health in FPS games and how huge it got. I don't want to see aspects like this in NS.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
it's not the same as regenerating health in call of duty etc, because in the NS games you pay something in order to regenerate the health (pres, tres, standing beside an armory, putting your gun down)
have you sat down and considered how much of this game relies on the fact that armories give armor?
<ul><li>A thing in the game bothered me</li><li>I know! I will redesign the fundamentals of Natural Selection so that the thing does not bother me anymore, when much simpler and more reasonable options are available</li><li>I will post my design on the forums and Charlie will hire me and I can start paying off my debt</li></ul><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That might be true in many ways, but theres also a lot of hardcore dedicated gamers who analyze games a lot and have a brain with a decent IQ. A lot of broken things are obvious to people, but what isn't so obvious is an elegant solution for the problem. A way to come up with solutions is to look to the past at things that have already been proven to work. Case in point, welders worked in NS1 and limitations on the powerfulness of armories also worked. It gave marines a fundamental disadvantage until people realized a counter... which is teamwork. With the addition of the PRES system is has encouraged players to be their own commander and their own rambo. With every gameplay element added to marines that takes away from teamwork you are going to get a broken game. There shouldn't be personal repair hubs that automatically fix a rambo up to 100% so he can go off on his own only to run back to the armory. Leaving your team and your positions should always lead to death. You souldn't be able to run back and get full health again like in COD. It's a broken gameplay mechanic. Forcing the marines to repair eachother at the cost of economy is the only way to fix this problem.
Most of what you say is predicated on things that you couldn't ever prove, and that very obviously depend on undeveloped gameplay by players ("running a long distance while weakened to get to the spawn and heal"). You attribute causes and effects to one another where it suits your argument, and when something doesn't fit you cover your ears and go 'CALL OF DUTY! DUMBING DOWN GAMES! PRES! TRES!' like every other awful thread.
<!--quoteo(post=1934245:date=May 7 2012, 07:55 PM:name=.ADHd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (.ADHd @ May 7 2012, 07:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1934245"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Leaving your team and your positions should always lead to death. You souldn't be able to run back and get full health again like in COD.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure..
<!--quoteo(post=1934248:date=May 7 2012, 07:57 PM:name=.ADHd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (.ADHd @ May 7 2012, 07:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1934248"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Let's hear what adding more teamwork to marines is going to break in the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's not what I'm saying. You're putting words in my mouth, and you also showed off one of the ways your solution is inelegant. You don't know what problem you're trying to solve.
Is the problem that people don't use welders as much as you would like? Is it that the game does not require enough teamwork of marines? Is it both? Is it a convoluted mess that allows you to justify whatever bubbles into your brain as you post on the forums?
Not really. It worked perfectly in NS1. I don't even understand why they added armor healing to the armory in NS2 in the first place. Even health healing from the armory was a lot slower in NS1, and that was only added in the last version (and a bad addition imo).
Even if it did work perfectly, do you think it would work perfectly in the NS2 we have now?
There's a lot of NS1 stuff I'd love to see (like lerk bite, projectile spores, projectile umbra...) that could not be simply shoehorned into NS2 as it stands, without bringing a LOT of additional work that, realistically speaking, would never get done. It's pretty ludicrous to expect the developers to spend any time on stuff like this, which is why it's so heartbreaking when they do (and are dumbfounded when it backfires).
Aliens already have a brutally easy time overrunning marines because of other fundamental design problems that have nothing to do with armories and welders. The least we can do is let marines get back to 3bite health between spawn waves while they're forced to give up map control because some kids ran at them and bit them while their res towers appeared as if by magic.
Again, though, it's not clear which problem this is trying to solve, or whether it's really a problem. If you can't start off with <i>at least that</i>, there's no point going further.
Most of what you say is predicated on things that you couldn't ever prove, and that very obviously depend on undeveloped gameplay by players ("running a long distance while weakened to get to the spawn and heal"). You attribute causes and effects to one another where it suits your argument, and when something doesn't fit you cover your ears and go 'CALL OF DUTY! DUMBING DOWN GAMES! PRES! TRES!' like every other awful thread.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The solution may not be elegant in the sense of the word, but it DOES fix the problem of rambo marines. If you take armor repairing from armories you are going to see teammates group up a lot more... use more teamwork. You wont get this nonsense of people running 50 feet from base and then running back to get 1 bites worth of armor back. Instead if everyone had welders that guy would still be in the game and working with his team. I can't spell it out for you any clearer IE.
Marines shouldn't have similar gameplay mechanics as aliens. They shouldn't be rogue fighters with recharging health and armor. Armories simply encourage that on marines at this point. The fix? Makes welders more important. Not because I want to see the used more, but because if they were the game would be BETTER and less noobfest.
Aliens were overpowering marines due to map expansion and overabundance of TRES. This has now been solved in the current builds and other elements need to be worked on. Like giving marines incentives to use more teamwork.
<ul><li>A thing in the game bothered me</li><li>I know! I will redesign the fundamentals of Natural Selection so that the thing does not bother me anymore, when much simpler and more reasonable options are available</li><li>I will post my design on the forums and Charlie will hire me and I can start paying off my debt</li></ul><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't be so quick to insult something that you yourself are guilty of. It puts you in a difficult position.
<b>Okay, let's suppose that the core problem is this:</b>
<i>Marines can heal by running from battle to their base.</i>
My response?
<ul><li>So can aliens.</li><li>Marines can heal in the field through welders, medpacks and armories. This is already in the game.</li></ul>
<b>Instead, let's suppose the core problem is this</b>
<i>Marines get away with too much without using teamwork.</i>
My response?
<ul><li>You didn't explain how it's true. You just assumed it as part of your larger argument, when it's not an absolute truth</li><li>I would say from my experience playing the game that it's blatantly fallacious. Single marines can hardly do anything significant at any point in any game on any map, unless the aliens really want it to happen</li></ul>
You need to prove that there aren't incentives for teamwork (or that there aren't enough). If you assume that, you can proceed to any judgement you like and <a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_384dwJUSZtc/TUmuC6fkZXI/AAAAAAAABOM/3rgpnpGlRo0/s1600/truth%2Btable.jpg" target="_blank">pretend it's true when it's not</a>.
What is it to "use teamwork" anyway? It's such a vague phrase you could strap it on just about anything you didn't like, unless there were a lot of people from the same team involved. Again, it doesn't make anything about the game true or help any value judgements.
<!--quoteo(post=1934256:date=May 7 2012, 08:13 PM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ May 7 2012, 08:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1934256"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Don't be so quick to insult something that you yourself are guilty of. It puts you in a difficult position.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Everyone's guilty of it at some point on this forum, but I want people to start recognizing it and stop crapping so many horrible ideas straight into this game before it's too late!
Yeah same here. Whenever I buy a welder I always seem to end up in a position to knife down an RT or something and then I pull out my axe and remember I have a welder and then i'm sad :(
<i>Marines can heal by running from battle to their base.</i>
My response?
<ul><li>So can aliens.</li><li>Marines can heal in the field through welders, medpacks and armories. This is already in the game.</li></ul>
<b>Instead, let's suppose the core problem is this</b>
<i>Marines get away with too much without using teamwork.</i>
My response?
<ul><li>You didn't explain how it's true. You just assumed it as part of your larger argument, when it's not an absolute truth</li><li>I would say from my experience playing the game that it's blatantly fallacious. Single marines can hardly do anything significant at any point in any game on any map, unless the aliens really want it to happen</li></ul>
You need to prove that there aren't incentives for teamwork (or that there aren't enough). If you assume that, you can proceed to any judgement you like and <a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_384dwJUSZtc/TUmuC6fkZXI/AAAAAAAABOM/3rgpnpGlRo0/s1600/truth%2Btable.jpg" target="_blank">pretend it's true when it's not</a>.
What is it to "use teamwork" anyway? It's such a vague phrase you could strap it on just about anything you didn't like, unless there were a lot of people from the same team involved.
Everyone's guilty of it at some point on this forum, but I want people to start recognizing it and stop crapping so many horrible ideas straight into this game before it's too late!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Firstly, that's not the core problem. The issue isn't that marines can retreat and heal. The problem also is not that marines can get away with too much without teamwork... it's actually the opposite and for you not to know that makes me question how much you've actually played this game.
Marines can only succeed with teamwork and rewarding players by letting them work off on their own goes against the premise of marine gameplay.
This is a fundamental problem with marine gameplay at the moment. Pres and armories are fundamentally breaking the game and turning it into a pseudo CO<i>d</i> combat mode.
You can't expect to put COD gameplay elements into a game that is based on TEAMWORK. Letting people buy their own guns is fine if planned out and used in a way to benefit the team, but in my opinion is another spoonfeed tactic by the developers.
The developers need to put elements into the game that funnel players into more team oriented play... not the opposite. Teammates should be responsible for healing and repairing. The guns needed to attack a hive should be decided by the team. Instead you get kids jetpack, flamethrowing on all corners of the map ignoring what's actually going on. Theres too much emphasis put on the individual player on marines which starts to mimmick the alien gameplay.
Here's a funny thing about this game!
The equivalent for the aliens is "I bought a gorge and now I can't do anything but heal and make zero-skill buildings, and whenever I need to kill an RT at half the speed of an axe marine by using bite, I have to go even slower using spit"
And the even funnier part is that's from the perspective of the team that wins the vast majority of games. Do you see how it's important to be careful when constructing any sort of argument about this crazy broken game?
There's a lot of NS1 stuff I'd love to see (like lerk bite, projectile spores, projectile umbra...) that could not be simply shoehorned into NS2 as it stands, without bringing a LOT of additional work that, realistically speaking, would never get done. It's pretty ludicrous to expect the developers to spend any time on stuff like this, which is why it's so heartbreaking when they do (and are dumbfounded when it backfires).
Aliens already have a brutally easy time overrunning marines because of other fundamental design problems that have nothing to do with armories and welders. The least we can do is let marines get back to 3bite health between spawn waves while they're forced to give up map control because some kids ran at them and bit them while their res towers appeared as if by magic.
Again, though, it's not clear which problem this is trying to solve, or whether it's really a problem. If you can't start off with <i>at least that</i>, there's no point going further.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Balance isn't half-bad right now. If performance got fixed, aliens would be getting steamrolled in the current version. The assumption has to be that performance will be fixed at some point, or this game simply won't be worth playing at all, regardless of balance.
I'm not even talking about the OP though, I'm just replying to your statement, which just isn't true -- and no, NS2 isn't so different from NS1 that removing autoheal from armories would break the game.
Its something ppl need to get used to. (the armor welding range and cone is a bit too short and unforgiving - but afaik this will be improved soon)
Also i agree i would rather lose the pistol than the axe(or be able to choose?), and i would love to pickup and drop welders... (tho i guess pres would maybe need to be increased then, not sure...)
Any argument against this? I said it right at the beginning and it was dodged.
P.S. You guys need to stop getting so off-topic. If you wanna make a post about some sort of design that wasn't copied or taken directly out of NS1 why don't you post on a more relevant thread.
P.S. You guys need to stop getting so off-topic. If you wanna make a post about some sort of design that wasn't copied or taken directly out of NS1 why don't you post on a more relevant thread.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like Koruyo said... they are 5 pres. You will regain that by the time you next spawn. You appear to be another spoonfeed user who if you dont IMMEDIATELY see the usefulness in something you toss it aside. It makes me want to rip all my hair out seeing posts like this.
How is welding teammates not important? It's extremely important. But if you have an armory 3 feet away there is 0 point for this. Which brings me to the point that armories are OP, but not just OP but break the purpose of the marine team which is to NOT be self reliant.
Try making some friends in game and using voice communication with eachother. Each buy a welder and tell the commander your strategy. Gun down skulks with ease because you are working with another person. When you take bites you weld eachother and get a medpack from the commander. NO NEED FOR ARMORY. Also you will be an extremely effective squad. But hell that takes SKILL and COORDINATION. We don't want that now do we? I'd rather run around 1 shotting skulks all day and running back to armory to get healed up.... essentially doing NOTHING for my team other than killing enemies which are wasting their time with you in the first place.
Well the armory...
Im not sure, i kinda like that they repair armor(considering how it works on the alien side) and its not like its that easy to get a forward armory up... (if the group of marines are dead, the armory dies quick and will most likely lose the tres)
I just dont have enough expirience with it - we dont really do forward armorys. (and havent played against teams that really did this either)
edit: also armorys can provide cover for aliens, and its relative nice to jump marines looking into it :P
Wrong. It's very obvious that welding teammates instead of having them stare into armories makes them <i>more apt to shoot things</i>. It's like MACs - they build while you keep your guns raised. The fact that armories can produce armor like welders doesn't mean they invalidate welders. If I could predict it, I'd say welding over 'giving up position to use armories' will become the norm as the level of play improves.
<!--quoteo(post=1934271:date=May 7 2012, 08:51 PM:name=.ADHd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (.ADHd @ May 7 2012, 08:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1934271"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Which brings me to the point that armories are OP, but not just OP but break the purpose of the marine team which is to NOT be self reliant.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right, and you can justify anything based on your previous statement which I disagree with. It's even better if you say "OP", because peoples' eyes will zoom to it and they'll get emotional all over your thread, instead of questioning whether any of what you said was rooted in any sort of truth.
<!--quoteo(post=1934271:date=May 7 2012, 08:51 PM:name=.ADHd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (.ADHd @ May 7 2012, 08:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1934271"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Try making some friends in game and using voice communication with eachother. Each buy a welder and tell the commander your strategy. Gun down skulks with ease because you are working with another person. When you take bites you weld eachother and get a medpack from the commander. NO NEED FOR ARMORY. Also you will be an extremely effective squad. But hell that takes SKILL and COORDINATION. We don't want that now do we? I'd rather run around 1 shotting skulks all day and running back to armory to get healed up.... essentially doing NOTHING for my team other than killing enemies which are wasting their time with you in the first place.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This makes absolutely no sense. First you describe how to work together and roam the map with support from medpacks and welders. Then you say that we don't need that (as a sarcastic way of saying the armory has removed the possibility of you doing this, even though you and every other good NS player already plays this way since<b> the armory isn't stopping you</b>).
The armory doesn't prevent marines taking advantage of welders and medpacks. It just provides a different way to get health and armor. The tradeoffs for using it are actually tremendous in every situation, although your opponents might not punish them. Here they are:
<ul><li>You have to face the armory (or at least half-face it) to use it, while welding players can face the action (and players being welded can face the action and fire guns)</li><li>Armories cannot move, while welders move with players and can be traded between players </li><li>Armories must be powered by the power grid, where welders do not use a power source</li><li>Armories have construction time each time a new one is added, while a welder is bought instantly and quickly deployed</li></ul>
I'm sure there are more, and you haven't really addressed this part, since you just assumed that armories are the devil and make this game call of duty or whatever
If you project this game to a future with really good hit registration, skilled/experienced players and all that jazz, it seems to me like the welder is way better than the armory at repairing armor in practical situations.
The armory doesn't prevent marines taking advantage of welders and medpacks. It just provides a different way to get health and armor. The tradeoffs for using it are actually tremendous in every situation, although your opponents might not punish them. Here they are:
<ul><li>You have to face the armory (or at least half-face it) to use it, while welding players can face the action (and players being welded can face the action and fire guns)</li><li>Armories cannot move, while welders move with players and can be traded between players </li><li>Armories must be powered by the power grid, where welders do not use a power source</li><li>Armories have construction time each time a new one is added, while a welder is bought instantly and quickly deployed</li></ul>
I'm sure there are more, and you haven't really address this part, since you just assumed that armories are the devil and make this game call of duty or whatever<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. You can circle strafe an armory and shoot while being healed since you are only healed once per second. In between heals you have time to shoot very easily and I do it all the time.
2. Point why welders are better
3. Powerpacks
4. Nano constructing armories take 2 seconds
So, now you are agreeing with me that welders are extremely useful especially for good players. So, why give a gigantic crutch to new players when there is clearly a superior alternative? You just support dumbing down this game. End of story. People need to learn how to play the game the most effective and efficient way if we are to have a fun and successful game that also rewards skill. Why are people encouraging new players to never leave the shallow waters? People need to learn how to play.
I don't support "dumbing down this game." I support "getting English language comprehension and critical thinking skills before trying to design a video game."
Saying stuff like 'end of story' just makes you look really desperate for those forum +1s, man.
I could make a dumb argument about how the rifle is a crutch because you can damage skulks from outside melee range, and then if someone told me the rifle has tradeoffs like reloading all I have to do is say they're dumbing down the game and they're hitler. This is easy!
<!--quoteo(post=1934278:date=May 7 2012, 09:11 PM:name=.ADHd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (.ADHd @ May 7 2012, 09:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1934278"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->People need to learn how to play the game the most effective and efficient way if we are to have a fun and successful game that also rewards skill.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is the most effective way to play for 20 minutes, post a thread telling Flayra how to make his game, then log in and repeat? It honestly seems like that's what most of the people on this forum are doing. Well, in between claiming to be competitive and saying "OP"
I'm not encouraging new players to do anything in particular, and I doubt any of them are reading this. In fact, I hope they don't exist. I'd hate to walk into this mess without having seen when the game was better, and have nothing to hope for.
P.S. Every thread you make seems to be complaining about something from NS1 that was changed. Maybe you should go back to NS1.
I don't support "dumbing down this game." I support "getting English language comprehension and critical thinking skills before trying to design a video game."
Saying stuff like 'end of story' just makes you look really desparate for those forum +1s, man.
I could make a dumb argument about how the rifle is a crutch because you can damage skulks from outside melee range, and then if someone told me the rifle has tradeoffs like reloading all I have to do is say they're dumbing down the game and they're hitler. This is easy!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I just explained how those tradeoffs are non-existent. The armory isn't superior to welders unless you are in an area which already has an armory... which is why new players tend to gravitate towards those than working with the team to move out. Saying things like, "End of story" is simply a way for me to explain that you just got owned and the case is closed. Armories are a noobs tool, and prevent teamwork in the long run when you dissect the positives and negatives.
I am not an idiot, and I know when gameplay elements are added to entice the general public and casual gamers. Been gaming since I could speak. The NS2 developers have been proving that they want to make this game marketable to the FPS public.... so here comes the spoon feeding. I have to disagree with that whether or not I am a PHD in game design. It's obvious that all the extremely tactical and skillbased elements of NS1 have been stripped away in hopes of making the game more playable for the sheepish ADHD gamer population.
It's no secret, and theres no bigger meta game picture to answer for why armories are so noob friendly. It's not an asymmetric gameplay element like it was in NS1.
I don't have to claim to be competitive either IE. If you were competitive at all you'd already know where I stand in this game.
I also play NS1 everyday still. I think NS2 is a better game, but I see the casualfest starting to pop up in it a little too much now.