Fanboy defence
Imbalanxd
Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104581Members
Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104581Members
<div class="IPBDescription">You aren't helping anyone</div>Why are their so many fanboy's that jump mindlessly to defend this game? I love natural-selection, and I support UWE, but I don't intend to silently put up with things that aren't acceptable. The game is unplayable performance wise, the game cannot cope with latency the way a game should, the game lacks all concepts of balance. Are these all a part of it being a beta? Of course they are. Does that fact make these not true? No, it most certainly doesn't.
For the foreseeable future, do not refute these shortcomings. If you do, you will be wrong. You'll notice its the people with 5 gHz CPUs saying not to complain about performance, and its the people with 20 ping that say the game handles latency fine. You will also notice that these same people will complain that the game is poorly balanced, as if they can selectively defend what aspects they want to.
The people not complaining about FPS are the people who are playing with 20 FPS, not 5. The ones saying the latency is fine are the ones who have never had more than 20 ping. The 16 year olds who never played on a 56k, where everyone had 300 ping, and the games ran <b>fine</b>. I was just kicked from a (controversial) server for stating that the marines were building ARCs because my tick rate was continuously dropping. Stop denying problems that are so obviously real.
For the foreseeable future, do not refute these shortcomings. If you do, you will be wrong. You'll notice its the people with 5 gHz CPUs saying not to complain about performance, and its the people with 20 ping that say the game handles latency fine. You will also notice that these same people will complain that the game is poorly balanced, as if they can selectively defend what aspects they want to.
The people not complaining about FPS are the people who are playing with 20 FPS, not 5. The ones saying the latency is fine are the ones who have never had more than 20 ping. The 16 year olds who never played on a 56k, where everyone had 300 ping, and the games ran <b>fine</b>. I was just kicked from a (controversial) server for stating that the marines were building ARCs because my tick rate was continuously dropping. Stop denying problems that are so obviously real.
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Comments
Because (thanks to TF2 and the steam workshop) everyone who plays video games thinks they can go from posting on forums to being salaried game designers (and skip the part where you actually develop the ability to think clearly and design things). It's the same reason people post a gigantic thread every time something in the game bothers them slightly.
We complain about performance EVERY SINGLE PATCH. More than you know to the devs.. they hear it and they know. Everything you listed here is a serious problem. We even have someone on our PT who can't even play the game because he gets insane mouse lag some how, and even my old computer before I upgraded was chugging along with crappy FPS and died in large fire fights.
We know the problems and there are limited ways to fix them. Be patient and stop making more threads with the same complaints. UWE hears them. Trust me.
It's really more about how you handle the discussion of the problems. I don't really think that anyone has said that this sort of discussion is verboten. You're right, the performance sucks. This also isn't news to anyone, and the devs address this issue literally every single week. I'm not sure why you're beating a horse that is so obviously in the putrification stage. They hear you: <a href="http://www.ns2hd.com/2012/04/performance-where-is-it-now-and-where.html" target="_blank">http://www.ns2hd.com/2012/04/performance-w...-and-where.html</a>. That link was posted two weeks ago.
We complain about performance EVERY SINGLE PATCH. More than you know to the devs.. they hear it and they know. Everything you listed here is a serious problem. We even have someone on our PT who can't even play the game because he gets insane mouse lag some how and even my old computer before I upgraded was chugging along with crappy FPS and died in large fire fights.
We know the problems and there are limited ways to fix them. Be patient and stop making more threads with the same complaints. UWE hears them. Trust me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This thread isn't a complaint about performance, but about the approach you just showed.
The fact that people complained about an issue does not mean their time to speak about it has passed, or that it's any less of an issue.
Continuously reassuring people from your high horse ("NS2 Playtester") does nothing but make them more angry. You're not talking to a bunch of 5 year olds who can be continuously fooled with "We'll go to the candy store in a few minutes! Right after mommy looks at these dresses.." It's also not your job to reassure them, or speak on the developers' behalf about what may or may not happen with the game. You're a playtester, I'm a player, Max is a developer. There are also moderators of the forums, whose job is to decide when threads on a topic will not be made anymore.
I agree that the topic of performance has been done to death, but 'fanboy defence' goes way beyond that to many, many other threads. Even this one!
I agree with your post, Imbalanxd. And especially this sentence is exactly my opinion too.
The fact that people complained about an issue does not mean their time to speak about it has passed, or that it's any less of an issue.
Continuously reassuring people from your high horse ("NS2 Playtester") does nothing but make them more angry. You're not talking to a bunch of 5 year olds who can be continuously fooled with "We'll go to the candy store in a few minutes! Right after mommy looks at these dresses.." It's also not your job to reassure them, or speak on the developers' behalf about what may or may not happen with the game. You're a playtester, I'm a player, Max is a developer.
I agree that the topic of performance has been done to death, but 'fanboy defence' goes way beyond that to many, many other threads.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is not in line with the sentiment behind the post of yours that was lauded and actually constructive and helpful. The fact that people have complained about something usually does mean that if they complain about it again, they are being annoying. Exceptions would be for issues that affect livelihood, to which the configuration of a game does not relate.
This is especially true if the complaints are directly responded to and addressed. Basically, you are offering that nothing short of drastically improved performance in the next patch is an acceptable response to mollify these complaints. How is assurance that such a patch is simply a few patches away dismissive or insulting to those who make the complaints?
Was that the game that had a constant 2x ARCs going to Southern Tram during late game?
The map was completely full of stuff by then since the game had been going so long; everyone had bad FPS
In my personal experience its more about people being unable to accept the shortcomings which do not affect them. In a broad case this can be seen in people who complain a little because they're getting 30 fps, but don't understand others who go on and on about it. This is primarily due to the fact that 30 FPS is mind-blowingly amazing performance that very few players get. A less commonly experienced case (which is why its that much more pronounced) is people who can't accept the impossibly incoherent effects latency can have on the game, primarily because they themselves have never played with anything above 20 ms. People will shout from the rooftops about the performance issues, but refute latency issues? Its this that I struggle to understand sometimes.
And ultimately stop saying that it will be fixed. Not because it won't be (I'm sure it will be, eventually), but because that doesn't stop it from being bad now.
:)
The fact that people complained about an issue does not mean their time to speak about it has passed, or that it's any less of an issue.
Continuously reassuring people from your high horse ("NS2 Playtester") does nothing but make them more angry. You're not talking to a bunch of 5 year olds who can be continuously fooled with "We'll go to the candy store in a few minutes! Right after mommy looks at these dresses.." It's also not your job to reassure them, or speak on the developers' behalf about what may or may not happen with the game. You're a playtester, I'm a player, Max is a developer. There are also moderators of the forums, whose job is to decide when threads on a topic will not be made anymore.
I agree that the topic of performance has been done to death, but 'fanboy defence' goes way beyond that to many, many other threads. Even this one!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Considering that dev's have addressed the same threads as well I think your point is quite moot as well.
I do not see the refutation that you claim is the standard response to performance issues that we all agree exist. All I see is developers and playtesters responding with a "Yes, that is an issue, and it is being worked on." Coding features into a game is a lot easier to do than optimizing performance of said code.
<!--quoteo(post=1932009:date=Apr 30 2012, 07:15 PM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Apr 30 2012, 07:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1932009"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And ultimately stop saying that it will be fixed. Not because it won't be (I'm sure it will be, eventually), but because that doesn't stop it from being bad now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not sure how to respond to this, because it is incredibly unreasonable. It <i>will</i> be fixed, and I do not say that for some holy belief of faith in the developers. Why do you think that you should keep mentioning a complaint if the response is "It will be fixed"? As I said to internetexplorer, it seems as if the only thing that will please you is to immediately have your complaints addressed in the next patch. This is not productive discussion, this is literally a circular conversation.
Have the developers noted complaints and fixed them before? Yes. Do the developers want to release a game with poor performance? No. What are you trying to accomplish?
Are we keeping tabs on who complains about what? More and more people are arriving to this game all the time (especially when a big promotion like the PAX booth happens), and they're all finding the same thing. Many of them choose to complain about it because it's such an obvious disappointment.
At the same time, some people have been around for a lot longer and been told to suffer through the crappiness of this game on good faith, with no end in sight. I understand the performance issues, and the fact that it's difficult to resolve them, but there's way too much useless hoping going on.
<!--quoteo(post=1932001:date=Apr 30 2012, 07:11 PM:name=World Construct)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (World Construct @ Apr 30 2012, 07:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1932001"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Basically, you are offering that nothing short of drastically improved performance in the next patch is an acceptable response to mollify these complaints.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not 'offering' that at all. I'm saying that it's not up to any particular player to jump to UWE's defence when it comes to this issue, and I agree that it's getting really tiresome seeing people white-knighting this game like it's going to get them an extra special prize.
<!--quoteo(post=1932001:date=Apr 30 2012, 07:11 PM:name=World Construct)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (World Construct @ Apr 30 2012, 07:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1932001"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How is assurance that such a patch is simply a few patches away dismissive or insulting to those who make the complaints?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We've been given that assurance several times, and even seen drastic improvements. It still hasn't ever been anywhere near enough. To make matters worse, we've seen performance decreases from things that can be said to obviously cause such a thing. The PAX update comes to mind - all the new shaders were introduced, bugs and all, making the game unplayable for many of us who already paid for it. Meanwhile, at the event, a different build (the one released to us just after PAX) was played, and it had notably better performance.
The developers work hard, and they have many different goals to meet (of which one is good performance), but it's insulting to me every time someone tries to diminish the value of these complaints. Like I said, the fact that it has been mentioned before doesn't mean the problem has gone away (or that anyone even noticed). It's also irksome that many of the dismissive posts come from people who are playtesters, moderators, registered in 2002 or any number of other fake qualifications. Too many people think they're qualified to speak for Charlie, Max and the rest. If you're just going to be a parrot, why not get a little chat bot that posts for you, and make another account where you think before writing each post?
<!--quoteo(post=1932012:date=Apr 30 2012, 07:18 PM:name=SabaHell)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SabaHell @ Apr 30 2012, 07:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1932012"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Considering that dev's have addressed the same threads as well I think your point is quite moot as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Care to elaborate? I don't actually understand what you just said...it just sounds like someone waving around a hall monitor sash.
At the same time, some people have been around for a lot longer and been told to suffer through the crappiness of this game on good faith, with no end in sight. I understand the performance issues, and the fact that it's difficult to resolve them, but there's way too much useless hoping going on.
I'm not 'offering' that at all. I'm saying that it's not up to any particular player to jump to UWE's defence when it comes to this issue, and I agree that it's getting really tiresome seeing people white-knighting this game like it's going to get them an extra special prize.
We've been given that assurance several times, and even seen drastic improvements. It still hasn't ever been anywhere near enough. To make matters worse, we've seen performance decreases from things that can be said to obviously cause such a thing. The PAX update comes to mind - all the new shaders were introduced, bugs and all, making the game unplayable for many of us who already paid for it. Meanwhile, at the event, a different build (the one released to us just after PAX) was played, and it had notably better performance.
The developers work hard, and they have many different goals to meet (of which one is good performance), but it's insulting to me every time someone tried to diminish the value of these complaints. Like I said, the fact that it has been mentioned before doesn't mean the problem has gone away (or that anyone even noticed). It's also irksome that many of the dismissive posts come from people who are playtesters, moderators, registered in 2002 or any number of other fake qualifications. Too many people think they're qualified to speak for Charlie, Max and the rest.
Care to elaborate? I don't actually understand what you just said...it just sounds like someone waving around a hall monitor sash.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The mis-appropriation of the phrase "white-knighting" goes to show your emotional investment. You are arguing just to argue. Go back to making productive posts. What are you trying to accomplish here?