<!--quoteo(post=1929189:date=Apr 24 2012, 01:50 PM:name=Xarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xarius @ Apr 24 2012, 01:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1929189"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They've stated they don't want to take away player control in what lifeform to play, so this is probably not going to happen. At the very least though they should consider requiring a 'upgrade' for the onos, so that an early game onos is weaker until he gets the tech investment (which would scale him to mid/late game)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If they really want no restrictions to lifeforms / weapons, why have the shotgun, grenlauncher etc. the need to be researched? They just unchained the lifeforms from the hives. Because there was to much weight on the 2nd hive. Not because the players needing the freedom to go onos after 8min.
Adding two states of an onos (a weak and a strong one) would only lead to confusion and later to denial. No one would pay the res for a weak onos. They would wait until the "real" onos is available anyway.
It is consent, that the early onos is a balance problem. The solution is easy. Instead of chaining it to a second hive, make it an upgrade.
<!--QuoteBegin-Xarius+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xarius)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->They've stated they don't want to take away player control in what lifeform to play, so this is probably not going to happen.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I suggest a system where the Khaam purchases the lifeforms. Lets say the Khaam starts the game spending TRes on 2 gorges and a lerk. All players would be now alerted that the evolutions were available and any player could now choose to take those roles. Players have choice over lifeforms.
Sure, it may become a bit of a free-for-all when the Khaam throws an onos out, but this metagame of fighting over evolutions sounds fun.
I can also see how easy it would be for new players to jump right in.
<!--quoteo(post=1929225:date=Apr 24 2012, 09:04 AM:name=Yuuki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yuuki @ Apr 24 2012, 09:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1929225"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think Grissi/Tweadle proposition is a good and simple change, just to summarize:
<b>1.</b> Comm/Khamm don't receive p-res anymore. <b>2.</b> Everything for the Comm/Khamm costs t-res or energy.
Optional: Make the t-res scale slightly with player count (for medpacks mainly) using : a) Low T-res for kill. or b) Direct scaling with player count.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes. I think this makes a lot more sense. And I would personally prefer option a) for both teams.
Don't get me wrong, I would agree with tying lifeforms to research (more choices/sinks for the alien khamm and better balance with marines) but Sewlek's post on a previous thread made it pretty clear that this wasn't likely to happen.
I quote: <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->what would this change? yeah i see it's a good idea to give the alien comm choices (there are no currently, not really) but unlocking the onos at ~4 minutes in the game makes no sense. but, unlocking a tier makes (skulks can have leap or even xenocide early on). marines would need a counter for fast tech of course (PT lab untied from adv. armory?), where both side could chose to invest their starting res in high tech in the beginning, sacrificing all economy (which could backfire very easily, no res for onos, RTs or tech switches)
also having to research life forms would just create the situation which we have on the marine side (which is not as there bad as for aliens): commander does not research it, half of the game features are lost (pub games, competitive is another thing).
i even coded that feature in ~6 months ago in a mod, and i changed my opinion about it. instead i started to promoted the ns1 tech tree more, untie life-forms from number of hives.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the difference is p.res. onos costs 75, where fade costs only 50. why not spend some tres to get an advantage 'right now' until other players got 25 pres more? that's what i mean. if you don't research lerk for example, then you are stuck on skulk/gorge until fades are there. this is a decision that should be made by each individual player. (marine weapons have all similar costs compared with each other, so once you have the adv. armory there is a decision to make what to research first, for aliens this decision is obvios: research what you can effort)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
From <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/forums/index.php?showtopic=117579&hl=" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/forums/ind...=117579&hl=</a>
Anyway, the discussion has merit and if they insist on not trying lifeforms to tech they should AT LEAST get rid of the 'one upgrades all' augmentation, so that the comm gets to make choices in regards to T2 - T3 abilities and receives a bigger tech tree overall (which will put him closer to the marine comm and make early extractor losses more devastating to the alien tech path)
Comments
If they really want no restrictions to lifeforms / weapons, why have the shotgun, grenlauncher etc. the need to be researched? They just unchained the lifeforms from the hives. Because there was to much weight on the 2nd hive. Not because the players needing the freedom to go onos after 8min.
Adding two states of an onos (a weak and a strong one) would only lead to confusion and later to denial. No one would pay the res for a weak onos. They would wait until the "real" onos is available anyway.
It is consent, that the early onos is a balance problem. The solution is easy. Instead of chaining it to a second hive, make it an upgrade.
<b>1.</b> Comm/Khamm don't receive p-res anymore.
<b>2.</b> Everything for the Comm/Khamm costs t-res or energy.
Optional: Make the t-res scale slightly with player count (for medpacks mainly) using :
a) Low T-res for kill.
or
b) Direct scaling with player count.
I suggest a system where the Khaam purchases the lifeforms. Lets say the Khaam starts the game spending TRes on 2 gorges and a lerk. All players would be now alerted that the evolutions were available and any player could now choose to take those roles. Players have choice over lifeforms.
Sure, it may become a bit of a free-for-all when the Khaam throws an onos out, but this metagame of fighting over evolutions sounds fun.
I can also see how easy it would be for new players to jump right in.
<b>1.</b> Comm/Khamm don't receive p-res anymore.
<b>2.</b> Everything for the Comm/Khamm costs t-res or energy.
Optional: Make the t-res scale slightly with player count (for medpacks mainly) using :
a) Low T-res for kill.
or
b) Direct scaling with player count.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes. I think this makes a lot more sense. And I would personally prefer option a) for both teams.
I quote:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->what would this change? yeah i see it's a good idea to give the alien comm choices (there are no currently, not really) but unlocking the onos at ~4 minutes in the game makes no sense. but, unlocking a tier makes (skulks can have leap or even xenocide early on). marines would need a counter for fast tech of course (PT lab untied from adv. armory?), where both side could chose to invest their starting res in high tech in the beginning, sacrificing all economy (which could backfire very easily, no res for onos, RTs or tech switches)
also having to research life forms would just create the situation which we have on the marine side (which is not as there bad as for aliens): commander does not research it, half of the game features are lost (pub games, competitive is another thing).
i even coded that feature in ~6 months ago in a mod, and i changed my opinion about it. instead i started to promoted the ns1 tech tree more, untie life-forms from number of hives.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the difference is p.res. onos costs 75, where fade costs only 50. why not spend some tres to get an advantage 'right now' until other players got 25 pres more? that's what i mean. if you don't research lerk for example, then you are stuck on skulk/gorge until fades are there. this is a decision that should be made by each individual player. (marine weapons have all similar costs compared with each other, so once you have the adv. armory there is a decision to make what to research first, for aliens this decision is obvios: research what you can effort)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
From
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/forums/index.php?showtopic=117579&hl=" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/forums/ind...=117579&hl=</a>
Anyway, the discussion has merit and if they insist on not trying lifeforms to tech they should AT LEAST get rid of the 'one upgrades all' augmentation, so that the comm gets to make choices in regards to T2 - T3 abilities and receives a bigger tech tree overall (which will put him closer to the marine comm and make early extractor losses more devastating to the alien tech path)