Gorge doesn't need Res for Building anymore.
countbasie
Join Date: 2008-12-27 Member: 65884Members
Join Date: 2008-12-27 Member: 65884Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Discuss here.</div>Leave my thread about the ResFlow alone!
Here you can post as much as you want about the Gorge...and guess what, it will be OnTopic if you do.
Edit:
To be fair, here are the major points that were discussed so far in the other thread:
'When Gorge doesn't need Res for building, does that mean he doesn't need Res for building?'
Some said 'Yes', some said 'Maybe'.
'What will happen when he dies?'
All said: 'I don't know'
Have fun :D
Here you can post as much as you want about the Gorge...and guess what, it will be OnTopic if you do.
Edit:
To be fair, here are the major points that were discussed so far in the other thread:
'When Gorge doesn't need Res for building, does that mean he doesn't need Res for building?'
Some said 'Yes', some said 'Maybe'.
'What will happen when he dies?'
All said: 'I don't know'
Have fun :D
Comments
For posters' reference:
<!--quoteo(post=1919045:date=Mar 28 2012, 11:46 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Mar 28 2012, 11:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1919045"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That will be changing soon. The plan is to have the Gorge be able to build cysts/hydras/goo walls, etc, without any res cost, just a limit on how many he can build at any one time. So, less waiting, and more strategizing as to what to build and where.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1919062:date=Mar 28 2012, 01:04 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Mar 28 2012, 01:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1919062"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, he will be able to "eat" his hydras, and other structures. So, he can replace them again in a different spot.
Also, I think there is going to be an incremental cap, at different Hive levels, but not quite sure.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe that "Spider" building in Hive 3 does something like Babblers, who knows...
Sounds fun, really does! But i wish UWE goodluck balancing it. For example, adding a cd to building placement is only going to simulate buildings costing res but be frustrating for fast placement. No cd means building and entity spam everywhere (and by this i mean it doesn't matter how many gorge buildings marines kill). So yeah, imo the mechanic seems like it actually may be a bit more limiting than the res based one we have and i can't think of many benefits to strategic depth atm.
Doesn't mean we can't have experimentation and whatnot i guess =D.
Sounds fun, really does! But i wish UWE goodluck balancing it. For example, adding a cd to building placement is only going to simulate buildings costing res but be frustrating for fast placement. No cd means building and entity spam everywhere (and by this i mean it doesn't matter how many gorge buildings marines kill). So yeah, imo the mechanic seems like it actually may be a bit more limiting than the res based one we have and i can't think of many benefits to strategic depth atm.
Doesn't mean we can't have experimentation and whatnot i guess =D.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
good points.
just some things i thought up..
what if building hydras and the gorge's energy were interlinked somehow? for example, dropping a hydra costs quite a bit of energy and reduces energy regen for a short period of time.. so during combat, the gorge would have to make a decision on whether to try and drop an additional hydra or continuing healing until the fight ceases.
or make unbuilt hydras even more vulnerable than they are now, such as increased time to fully grow them.
e.g. a freshly evolved Gorge would only be able to build 1 of everything, but if he's been out healing his buddies and after a while he would find that he can plop up to 3-5 of each building all at once.
Or the reverse, so each Gorge can puke to his heart's delight but must wait afterward, to "restock" his # of each building place-able at one time.
You never know when a Gorge might want his Mini-Cysts relocated, so a Cyst or two would be more permanent. I hope Hydras get buffed up with limited numbers now.
As long as the hydras are limited, I don't see a problem with that. The gorge can tend to his garden, relocate it as needed, and if the marines pick off the gorge, they can clear the nest that much faster.
Actually, I REALLY like this idea. Limit the gorge's maximum presence but let him relocate as often as needed. (at the cost of build time at new location)
edit:
I do want to see the gorge have something to spend personal res on, though, whether it's a buff, "spell," or special super-building that they can only have one at a time out. (like a larger, more powerful Hydra that's limited to one and dies if the gorge dies)
lower adren regen rate for gorges and make everything cost less
hence higher number of buildings able to do with max energy, but will still take ages to recover
and of course that energy is shared with heal spray, so if you're busy healspraying and your fortress dies, you won't be replacing any time soon
But I'm curious how they want to balance 0-cost mini cysts. Or is this out of the discussion?
Thinking about it, i'm not even sure if its a problem or not but its something to keep an eye on.
That aside, me likes :)
In my opinion it would be cool if they removed the mini cysts ability and instead added some kind of "puke temporary infestation" ability instead. For example, the gorge pukes out infestation at a nearby spot. After 10 seconds the infestation begins to disappear and the gorge has the ability to recast the ability once again (it has about 10 seconds cooldown). The gorge can't leave the spot for too long because then the structures there will start to die thanks to the infestation disappearing.
Pros
- The gorge will be able to put pressure on the marine team without the help of anyone, he can sneak into marine lines and start building structures.
- He can be both defensive and offensive easier and because of that much more useful to the team.
Cons
- Removes a part of the teamwork between commander and gorge. Although I bet the gorge and comm can work out some cool tactics with the help of the temporary infestation.
- What's stopping a team from having everyone go gorge to place the max hydras and then just go skulk again?
- Hydras need to be built in large amounts to be viable currently, if they intend on capping the total amount they will really need to buff them
- If gorge can build cysts for free why would commander still have to pay p.res for them? Commander would have no p.res sink if gorges build all the cysts, allowing him to play as a big lifeform again later in the game (tipping the scale against the marine team)
- Gorge players will also be able to save for fade or onos, increasing the number of those lifeforms later in the game.
It's an interesting idea, and I'm curious to find out how they would go about implementing it, but there's really some big potential flaws in it. That being said, I'm glad they're finally addressing gorge and hydra viability.
IMO it would just be better to drop gorge p.res cysts to 1, hydras to 3 or 5 with a cap and 1 - 2 for goowall. That way you'd still have a relatively small (but significant enough) p.res sink for gorge players.
I guess mini cysts would also be limited, and if a gorge wanted to move them, the comm has to cover the network anyway. Gorge cysts are pretty much only used for wall farming hydras anyway...
This is actually exactly how it worked in previous beta builds prior to the creation of the cyst mechanic. It wasn't very fun to play because you constantly had to babysit your structures in order to keep them alive.
Pretty much this. If they don't want a res cost on the minicyst they could make them cost a massive amount of energy (nearly the whole bar) to prevent the gorge from spreading infestation too fast and still have them be permanent, but at the same time this may require an increase of the cost of the comm cyst to make sure infestation isn't spreading in rates that are faster than the current build (which can be a bit ridiculous even now).
I'm interested to see how it's implemented!
TBH Gorges dropping cysts is much more fun imo, you can place sneaky cysts, or just harder to kill ones, since unlike the comm's cyst they can be placed on walls and ceilings.
indeed, i love making gardens next to marine bases.
Well this is true. I love the ability to put them on the ceilings and the like the issue I am concerned about is that from a first person perspective having to do the whole map would be a bit mind numbing and functionally is a lot easier for the top down view commander using the mouse and hot keys.
Though I do believe they should still cost like 1 p.res, to balance them out with the alien comm's more expensive ones and give the gorge a minor res sink himself.