New computer makes a huge difference!

NurEinMenschNurEinMensch Join Date: 2003-02-26 Member: 14056Members, Constellation Posts: 1,352
Making the change from my old Q-whatever quad core to a near top of the line system dramatically changed my game play experience.

I'm writing this especially for the people who are having problems, low and inconsistent frame rate and general doubts about the future of NS2. On the condition that UWE manages to get the same performance out of mid range machines, this game will totally rock!

It's hard to put my finger on any particular item that makes the difference. It's the whole package. The general fluidity that unlocks the NS2 experience. I can actually track my enemies now. My positional awareness has increased greatly. Even in marine vs. skulk(s) close combat situations I now know where they are and where I am, and where I should be aiming at. Enemies no longer warp across the screen and I no longer lose sight of them because too many frames were skipped. After a short time of adaption to the high frame rate my k/d ratio skyrocketed. Clearly I benefited from exploiting the low performance others have. But even when that is accounted for I still feel like I'm in control now and no longer subject of arbitrary fps hitches and choppy movement.

Movement in general feels different, more fluid, almost HL-ish. As long as the server is doing well at least. I feel like I can jump higher and farther. Maybe that's not actually the case but at least it feels like that. It's much more precise and crisp at any rate. I now jump over boxes and rails that I used to walk around. Because I don't get stuck on them any more. It's a joy.

So what I want to say here is that NS2 at its core has what it takes. The "Natural Selection"-experience is there. It's close to flawless. They just have to "unlock" it for the average gamer. They need to optimize it so it runs with the same performance on a mid range system as it's running on high end machines now. The potential is there. Please make it happen.
This is the kind of thing that goes on behind close doors on normal game releases, where they are optimizing it right up until the end. You guys are just getting to play with a version of the game that normally only the developers see.

--Cory
«13

Comments

  • Bobo44Bobo44 Join Date: 2011-11-02 Member: 130749Members Posts: 22
    QUOTE (NurEinMensch @ Feb 29 2012, 06:57 AM) »
    Making the change from my old Q-whatever quad core to a near top of the line system dramatically changed my game play experience.

    I'm writing this especially for the people who are having problems, low and inconsistent frame rate and general doubts about the future of NS2. On the condition that UWE manages to get the same performance out of mid range machines, this game will totally rock!

    It's hard to put my finger on any particular item that makes the difference. It's the whole package. The general fluidity that unlocks the NS2 experience. I can actually track my enemies now. My positional awareness has increased greatly. Even in marine vs. skulk(s) close combat situations I now know where they are and where I am, and where I should be aiming at. Enemies no longer warp across the screen and I no longer lose sight of them because too many frames were skipped. After a short time of adaption to the high frame rate my k/d ratio skyrocketed. Clearly I benefited from exploiting the low performance others have. But even when that is accounted for I still feel like I'm in control now and no longer subject of arbitrary fps hitches and choppy movement.

    Movement in general feels different, more fluid, almost HL-ish. As long as the server is doing well at least. I feel like I can jump higher and farther. Maybe that's not actually the case but at least it feels like that. It's much more precise and crisp at any rate. I now jump over boxes and rails that I used to walk around. Because I don't get stuck on them any more. It's a joy.

    So what I want to say here is that NS2 at its core has what it takes. The "Natural Selection"-experience is there. It's close to flawless. They just have to "unlock" it for the average gamer. They need to optimize it so it runs with the same performance on a mid range system as it's running on high end machines now. The potential is there. Please make it happen.


    list the specification of your new pc.

    too bad you didn't wait though. the mid range cards are out in march from AMD.

    had this HD4850 for a while now. maybe since 2008. lets see what difference there will be with the 7850 or 7870 for me.

    this is my configuration :
    Phenom II @3.9Ghz-4.05Ghz
    DDR3 @ 1600mhz 8/9/8/24/33/T1 2X2GB
    Sapphire HD4850 512MB single slot (this thing can cook eggs with the heat generated) CCC 12.1
    Wins 7 64Bit

    settings in game :
    1280x786 - i was at 1400x900 but in mineshaft the game frames will plummit too much.
    medium

    frames - 10-60 depending if in ready room or not, map, player size, early/mid/late game, lerk gas spam, marine jetpack particles etc.

    it usually ends around the 10-30 after mid game but good enough.

    also, everyone should research how to use their mouse to the highest poll rate. this increases your mouse repsonsiveness alot.


  • NurEinMenschNurEinMensch Join Date: 2003-02-26 Member: 14056Members, Constellation Posts: 1,352
    I didn't measure fps. It's a number that isn't really as important as my subjective experience imo. Also it's difficult to read when it matters the most, during heavy combat.
    This is the kind of thing that goes on behind close doors on normal game releases, where they are optimizing it right up until the end. You guys are just getting to play with a version of the game that normally only the developers see.

    --Cory
  • RobBRobB TUBES OF THE INTERWEB Join Date: 2003-08-11 Member: 19423Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 3,660
    so it comes down to my old foe. hardware.
    lucky me this rig reached the end of its cycle.
    the list for a new one is compiled, waiting for a paycheck...
    image
  • GadxGadx Join Date: 2003-03-22 Member: 14788Members, Constellation, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 128
    Much of client performance depends on server performance. A freshly restart server will maintain is high tick rate through out the game. Once the server side is brought up to speed, the game will play better for everyone.

    Currently there is a mem leak in 198, I am sure it'll be fixed this week.
    Rehevkor in game
  • VeNeMVeNeM Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 928Members Posts: 1,240 Fully active user
    shouldve went with a beefier vid card, but that sys is pretty nice.
    Lethal Assassin
    user posted image
  • antacidantacid Join Date: 2007-08-07 Member: 61821Members, NS2 Playtester Posts: 483 Fully active user
    NS2 is runs pretty well currently for how good it looks.

    There is still optimizing to do, but I use a mere 4601GB which is a 2 year old midrange card. I run NS2 at 1920x1080 on Absolute Max graphics and it runs just fine, looks fantastic too.

    People with ancient cards can't expect the next generation of games to lag behind with them, sometimes you just have to upgrade your system.
  • AlignAlign Remain Calm Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Forum Moderators, Constellation Posts: 8,207 mod
    Guess it wasn't just improved responsiveness from the increased framerate:
    QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Mar 1 2012, 10:50 PM) »
    There was a bug in the movement code that meant that players with high FPS had more speed and more control with the skulk then players with low FPS.
    --Cory

  • weezlweezl Join Date: 2008-07-04 Member: 64557Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 518 Fully active user
    i can give you some idea of performance with an upper bound:
    3930k @4.2GHz with gtx480 and i'm STILL far far away from being satisfied with performance! i'm guessing this is a top 1‰ system.
    in any case, the framerate has made ALOT of improvement the last several builds!

    the graphics horsepower isn't that important in NS2, CURRENTLY, as CPU, but it's getting there as CPU optimizations are being made.
    my GPU is utilized anywhere between 60-90% (very rarely 99%), so graphics optimizations should be worked on in the near future imo.

    as for framerate (b199):
    starting a game, fps is a very fluid 50+
    some time into the game (maybe early-mid game) i notice fluidity disappear and it becomes semi-lagging
    end game (for medium/long games) that ends in one team invading the others base it's outright lagging with 10-30 fps

    so why this gradual decline of fps really???
    more structures/players/FX onscreen? maybe. or maybe something more.
  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Posts: 4,983 mod
    QUOTE (weezl @ Mar 2 2012, 05:54 PM) »
    i can give you some idea of performance with an upper bound:
    3930k @4.2GHz with gtx480 and i'm STILL far far away from being satisfied with performance! i'm guessing this is a top 1‰ system.
    in any case, the framerate has made ALOT of improvement the last several builds!

    the graphics horsepower isn't that important in NS2, CURRENTLY, as CPU, but it's getting there as CPU optimizations are being made.
    my GPU is utilized anywhere between 60-90% (very rarely 99%), so graphics optimizations should be worked on in the near future imo.

    as for framerate (b199):
    starting a game, fps is a very fluid 50+
    some time into the game (maybe early-mid game) i notice fluidity disappear and it becomes semi-lagging
    end game (for medium/long games) that ends in one team invading the others base it's outright lagging with 10-30 fps

    so why this gradual decline of fps really???
    more structures/players/FX onscreen? maybe. or maybe something more.

    Longer games = more stuff for the server to do = dropping server performance (lower tickrate) = more client-side prediction = lower client fps

    Is how I understand it.

    Also, I believe NS2 will mostly use only one of those 3930k cores (it will use a little bit of a second core), such that higher single-core clock speed is pretty much the main factor determining client fps. For example, I'm running a 2500k at 4.5GHz and usually maintain >30 for most of the game (with occasional drops into the 20-30 fps range). Of course, that's ridiculously low for what it should be getting when compared to other current gen fps games, but its been improving steadily, if slowly, over the course of the beta.
  • Soylent_greenSoylent_green Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11220Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 2,875 Advanced user
    QUOTE (antacid @ Feb 29 2012, 11:29 PM) »
    NS2 is runs pretty well currently for how good it looks.


    If it's not playable it does not matter how good it looks. Less than 30 FPS during firefights in the end game is not playable(sometimes into the teens, especially on tram). A lot of this is due to poor server performance, which decimates client performance.

    QUOTE (antacid @ Feb 29 2012, 11:29 PM) »
    There is still optimizing to do[...]


    LUA is an achilles heel; especially for the server. To get acceptable server performance it may prove necessary to strip out the LUA and reimplement the game code in C++.

    QUOTE (antacid @ Feb 29 2012, 11:29 PM) »
    [...]but I use a mere 4601GB which is a 2 year old midrange card. I run NS2 at 1920x1080 on Absolute Max graphics and it runs just fine, looks fantastic too.


    The graphics card is irrelevant in NS2. I really mean that; I've tried NS2 with an HD6870 and a 6 year old X1900 on the same system and there was no substantive difference on the medium setting.
  • SkieSkie Skulk Progenitor Join Date: 2003-10-18 Member: 21766Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 656
    QUOTE (weezl @ Mar 3 2012, 03:54 AM) »
    so why this gradual decline of fps really???
    more structures/players/FX onscreen? maybe. or maybe something more.

    It's because your fps is tied to server lag in NS2. And when the game progresses further, it starts using more memory and server resources, and the server tickrate drops. It directly also drops your fps.

    This combined with other nasty side effects of higher ping, such as higher chance of bullet non-reg because there's a lot more interpolation for the shots, you really don't want to play on a high ping server at all.

    NS2 is really fun over 40-50 fps, but when it starts going lower, it really feels much less fluid physics wise as well.
  • naXynaXy Join Date: 2008-07-12 Member: 64618Members Posts: 43
    Ivy bridges overclocked at 6+ ghz MIGHT run ns2 at an acceptable frame rate. So get your dices and ln2s ready D:
    duh duh nuhduh nuh duh nuh
  • weezlweezl Join Date: 2008-07-04 Member: 64557Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 518 Fully active user
    QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Mar 3 2012, 05:27 AM) »
    Longer games = more stuff for the server to do = dropping server performance (lower tickrate) = more client-side prediction = lower client fps

    Is how I understand it.

    Also, I believe NS2 will mostly use only one of those 3930k cores (it will use a little bit of a second core), such that higher single-core clock speed is pretty much the main factor determining client fps. For example, I'm running a 2500k at 4.5GHz and usually maintain >30 for most of the game (with occasional drops into the 20-30 fps range). Of course, that's ridiculously low for what it should be getting when compared to other current gen fps games, but its been improving steadily, if slowly, over the course of the beta.



    QUOTE (Skie @ Mar 3 2012, 01:36 PM) »
    It's because your fps is tied to server lag in NS2. And when the game progresses further, it starts using more memory and server resources, and the server tickrate drops. It directly also drops your fps.

    This combined with other nasty side effects of higher ping, such as higher chance of bullet non-reg because there's a lot more interpolation for the shots, you really don't want to play on a high ping server at all.

    NS2 is really fun over 40-50 fps, but when it starts going lower, it really feels much less fluid physics wise as well.



    i hear what you are saying, this makes perfect sense (and i knew it myself, just never put the pieces together)
    question is why several buildings (entities?) need prediction??? - the player amount is the same...
    does the server update all entities for all players every tick? (which would be similar to the turret targets updating fixed by matso!)
    is prediction needed/used on stationary buildings???
  • FadergastFadergast Join Date: 2012-03-03 Member: 148044Members Posts: 3
    The game i pretty much unplayable for me, when i try to run forward i take 1 step back and 2 forward, feels very unsmooth and laggy.
    My fps is around 30-40 and ping 40 :/
    Does anyone run this game smooth, and what is your specs?
    Hopefully they will fix the game, rly loved the first one.


    My specs:
    Win7 64bit
    AMD Phenom II X6 1100T Black Edition 3.3ghz
    Corsair Dominator DDR3 1600MHz 8GB CL8
    Sapphire Radeon HD 6990 4GB GDDR5
  • antacidantacid Join Date: 2007-08-07 Member: 61821Members, NS2 Playtester Posts: 483 Fully active user
    QUOTE (Soylent_green @ Mar 3 2012, 10:32 AM) »
    If it's not playable it does not matter how good it looks. Less than 30 FPS during firefights in the end game is not playable(sometimes into the teens, especially on tram). A lot of this is due to poor server performance, which decimates client performance.



    LUA is an achilles heel; especially for the server. To get acceptable server performance it may prove necessary to strip out the LUA and reimplement the game code in C++.



    The graphics card is irrelevant in NS2. I really mean that; I've tried NS2 with an HD6870 and a 6 year old X1900 on the same system and there was no substantive difference on the medium setting.



    Well it runs perfectly for me, so I guess the problem is with you.
  • exainsexains Join Date: 2012-03-03 Member: 148046Members Posts: 14
    QUOTE (antacid @ Mar 4 2012, 01:01 AM) »
    Well it runs perfectly for me, so I guess the problem is with you.


    I love this.
    "I don't have a problem, so it must be you."

    The truth is that the game runs really poorly (which is ok since it's a beta!). I've got a i5 2500k, 8gbs of ram and a nvidia 580, yet I can't run this with 60fps at all times even with the settings set to the lowest, and with bloom and shadows disabled. ( r_bloom false & r_shadows false, for the interested)
    I'm not alone with this. If you don't have a problem, good for you. But don't pretend like it's not there.
  • John BlackthorneJohn Blackthorne Join Date: 2012-02-23 Member: 147245Members Posts: 44
    QUOTE (antacid @ Mar 3 2012, 07:01 PM) »
    Well it runs perfectly for me, so I guess the problem is with you.


    I love it when people pretend there are not problems because all is fine for me so screw everyone else.. useless bunch of people.
    "Oh I know Hamlet. And what he might say with irony, I say with conviction: What a piece of work is man! How noble in reason, how infinite in faculty, in form and moving how express and admirable, in action how like an angel, in apprehension how like a god!" -Jean-Luc Picard
  • TrueVeritasTrueVeritas Join Date: 2006-10-20 Member: 58082Members Posts: 349 Fully active user
    the game runs reallllllllllllllly poorly, this is pretty much common knowledge. people just have different standards.
  • internetexplorerinternetexplorer Join Date: 2011-10-13 Member: 127255Members Posts: 1,369
    edited March 2012
    QUOTE (TrueVeritas @ Mar 3 2012, 07:58 PM) »
    the game runs reallllllllllllllly poorly, this is pretty much common knowledge. people just have different standards.


    This is why people like me walk into these threads and go "nah, actually, it runs great for me" and somebody else gets jealous.

    There's absolutely no point making a blanket statement like "it runs poorly" - it's just as unhelpful as me pretending it runs well for everyone like it does for me.

    Regardless, the OP's post indicates that there's some truth to the idea that using newer hardware to run a current-generation game is a decent idea. Water is wet.
  • RokiyoRokiyo A.K.A. .::FeX::. Revenge Join Date: 2002-10-10 Member: 1471Members, Constellation Posts: 1,564
    QUOTE (naXy @ Mar 4 2012, 12:37 AM) »
    Ivy bridges overclocked at 6+ ghz MIGHT run ns2 at an acceptable frame rate. So get your dices and ln2s ready D:

    Define acceptable.

    My stock sandy bridge i7-2600K @ 3.4 Ghz generally keeps my FPS above 40. I'm plenty happy with that.
    QUOTE (Nemesis Zero)
    Oh, on the subject of Gems gender, Revenge, see it this way: Once a person is more than a thousand miles away from you (and your IP ranges indicate just this), genders become optional.
  • RokiyoRokiyo A.K.A. .::FeX::. Revenge Join Date: 2002-10-10 Member: 1471Members, Constellation Posts: 1,564
    QUOTE (exains @ Mar 4 2012, 10:20 AM) »
    I love this.
    "I don't have a problem, so it must be you."

    The truth is that the game runs really poorly (which is ok since it's a beta!). I've got a i5 2500k, 8gbs of ram and a nvidia 580, yet I can't run this with 60fps at all times even with the settings set to the lowest, and with bloom and shadows disabled. ( r_bloom false & r_shadows false, for the interested)
    I'm not alone with this. If you don't have a problem, good for you. But don't pretend like it's not there.

    Try turning all your settings back up man. Depending on your video card, it shouldn't make much if any difference. Those settings pretty much just tax your video card, but this game bottlenecks at CPU.

    Also try playing on low-ping high-performance servers to avoid unnecessary lag compensation (which further strains your CPU).
    QUOTE (Nemesis Zero)
    Oh, on the subject of Gems gender, Revenge, see it this way: Once a person is more than a thousand miles away from you (and your IP ranges indicate just this), genders become optional.
  • Omega_K2Omega_K2 Join Date: 2011-12-25 Member: 139013Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 558
    edited March 2012
    They need to optimize this. The game is not fun with 10FPS and choppy gameplay, once FPS are stable and on an acceptable level, it becomes much more fun as well.

    And sure, you can spend some money on an Intel Extreme and an cutting edge GFX card, but what point is there if NS2 doesn't even use them to their maximum potential? On my rig, GFX card utilization is about ~70% (inbetween 60-80%), CPU (quad core) at ~40%. I can tell that something is wrong there.
    If you look at other titles, BF3 or Crysis for example, they just run fine. Stable FPS and playable at any times at ultra settings (DX10 though).

    New features are nice, but the priority should be the optimization of the engine. What the point of new features if I don't even want to play anymore, because it is simply not playable due to the framerate. I already try to avoid mineshaft for example, but on that the hit on FPS is especially large.

    Of course I see this is beta, but as I said above, the priority should be to get it playable. And a game like this should be playable on even lowend comps on low settings.
    German Slaughterhouse | GS Servers | Server Hardware
    IGN: [#OMEGA] - K2 (Hive)

    NS2 long standing issues (Fix ETA: Never):
    Bad Netcode (no adjustable tickrate, extremly delayed hit feedback, bad hitreg),
    Bad Performance (Poor Multi-threading, Mouse Lag, bad server performance, almost no multi-threading in server application)
    Bad Balance (GL Spam, semi-useless exos, poor chance of comebacks, no upkeep/or RT dimishing returns...)
    Technical Issues (Mouse Lag, Memory Leaks, Memory Corruption (and memory corruption server crashes))
    Bad Workshop implementation (down = kicks people/connection prboelms, out of date = nobody can join server),
  • RokiyoRokiyo A.K.A. .::FeX::. Revenge Join Date: 2002-10-10 Member: 1471Members, Constellation Posts: 1,564
    QUOTE (Omega_K2 @ Mar 4 2012, 01:58 PM) »
    New features are nice, but the priority should be the optimization of the engine.
    It already is. They're working on it.
    QUOTE (Nemesis Zero)
    Oh, on the subject of Gems gender, Revenge, see it this way: Once a person is more than a thousand miles away from you (and your IP ranges indicate just this), genders become optional.
  • exainsexains Join Date: 2012-03-03 Member: 148046Members Posts: 14
    QUOTE (Rokiyo @ Mar 4 2012, 03:02 AM) »
    Try turning all your settings back up man. Depending on your video card, it shouldn't make much if any difference. Those settings pretty much just tax your video card, but this game bottlenecks at CPU.

    Also try playing on low-ping high-performance servers to avoid unnecessary lag compensation (which further strains your CPU).


    Good suggestion. When I turned them down and tried I had higher fps, but in retrospect it might just have been because of the server, since my fps is far from high enough even now.
  • internetexplorerinternetexplorer Join Date: 2011-10-13 Member: 127255Members Posts: 1,369
    edited March 2012
    QUOTE (Omega_K2 @ Mar 3 2012, 10:58 PM) »
    They need to optimize this.


    How? What do you suggest? Does it look like they aren't doing that?

    It's not optimization in the sense that they solve a math problem with some derivatives and stuff. It's a lot more complicated and depends on player feedback (from different hardware setups).

    They have less people programming this game than there are classes in TF2, and they've created something many times better than that game already. Performance is a priority, but they have other goals to reach as well. If the art guys produce new models/animations/maps/whatever, it would be foolish to not take some time and add those in (for the 200 people who are playing round the clock and enjoying themselves). BF3 and Crysis are made by enormous companies, on well established (and frankly, dated) game engines, which had all their performance issues worked out before you even knew those games were in development.

    This is a *real* beta of a game, not a marketing tool where people trample each other for keys and then play what's basically a release candidate.

    Just give it time.
  • NurEinMenschNurEinMensch Join Date: 2003-02-26 Member: 14056Members, Constellation Posts: 1,352
    QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Mar 4 2012, 03:09 AM) »
    Regardless, the OP's post indicates that there's some truth to the idea that using newer hardware to run a current-generation game is a decent idea. Water is wet.


    The intention of my post is to reinstate confidence in the game by showing that many problems with it (balance, movement etc.) are not independent issues but are all tied to performance and that things will start falling into their places when the performance problems are solved. If that was already obvious to you then that post wasn't directed at you and you should have realized that after reading the disclaimer.
    This is the kind of thing that goes on behind close doors on normal game releases, where they are optimizing it right up until the end. You guys are just getting to play with a version of the game that normally only the developers see.

    --Cory
  • AKBAARAKBAAR Join Date: 2012-03-04 Member: 148086Members Posts: 8
    edited March 2012
    I have
    i7 @ 4.2ghz + 2 X 5870 (crossfire/SLI) + 2000MHz DDr3 12gb + 1080p monitor + SSD 500mb write

    i get 60 fps most of the time

    image
  • ZehtukaZehtuka Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 72853Members Posts: 11
    NS2 likes CPU power, and lots of it. When I upgraded from my PII 955 (4.0Ghz) to my current i5 2500k (4.5Ghz) I gained roughly 20 FPS more.
  • FloodinatorFloodinator [HBZ] Member Join Date: 2005-02-22 Member: 42087Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,301
    Alot of ppl have to understand, that alot of their problems are server related. A low tickrate kills any system that you can buy on the market.

    Also if you have a"unclean" messi pc and not a fresh "clean" on can do 30 FPS difference. I tried to run NS2 on my GF pc (same spec as mine, because i bought both) and got 25FPS, while on my PC I get over 60 FPS.

    For that reason I installed 2 windows. 1 for work and 1 windows specialy optimesed for gaming only. (google Windows Gaming Edition if you are lazy).
    image
  • LV426-ColonistLV426-Colonist Space Jockey Join Date: 2011-08-05 Member: 114269Members, Constellation Posts: 678 Fully active user
    Overclock your processors.

    DO IT NOW!
    LV426-Colonist
Sign In or Register to comment.