IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
Or give some options to how you activate, as I wouldn't want to keep yet another finger bound to a key while trying to maneuver in midcombat.
A <b>menu option</b> to migrate some of the movement modifiers to double taps would be a good one, so the people who want it to free up some space have the option to do so. Moving sprint from shift to forward double tap, and gorge belly slide as well.
I hope fades can be the way they were in b198, and skulk's movement in 198 is better imo. I like to trace my target while jumping in different direction.
It seems like the aliens downgraded, marines upgraded.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited March 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1908823:date=Mar 1 2012, 08:34 PM:name=Freemantle)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Freemantle @ Mar 1 2012, 08:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908823"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NS2 isn't about how quickly you aim or how well you jump off of walls. Or it was never meant to be. It is how you defend or attack a room, how you walk down a hallway, how you set up an ambush. The more accessible you make the game, the more visible the metagame will be to people playing for the first time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Only that movement and aim are the two most important core pillars of this game. And what are you on about with autoaim and taking away control from players attacking structures... I mean seriously.
That or I need a new battery for my troll detector >:D
<!--quoteo(post=1908617:date=Mar 1 2012, 03:35 AM:name=Schimmel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Schimmel @ Mar 1 2012, 03:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908617"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->and the lerk was unfortunately a victim. his change is unintended, but i found the problem and you can expect it as fixed for next patch.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't want to be a huge jerk, but I have an honest question (from the perspective of someone who really likes the lerk and dislikes seeing it get worse and worse):
Does someone go in game and fly around as the lerk for 30 seconds before a build is released?
<!--quoteo(post=1908683:date=Mar 1 2012, 08:57 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Mar 1 2012, 08:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908683"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I never saw the appeal of bunnyhopping, it looks dumb, is needlessly complicated for a basic movement ability, and frankly the idea of it bores the hell out of me. It isn't interesting, it's been done before, it's like making a shooter that's a COD clone, I want something new and different, not the same thing I played ten years ago.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The appeal of bunnyhopping is that it's a skill for players to develop. It's not <i>needlessly </i>complicated because it's not a <i>basic </i>movement ability. It's something beyond the basics.
It offers ways to involve psychology in combat (using air control and map geometry to move in ways your opponents do not predict), even though on the surface it looks like a purely mechanical activity. For a good example of "quake-esque" movement and how it's cool, check <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q76UNcuKSVY" target="_blank">this </a>out. There are other quake movies that are only about movement, but this one shows you how basic strafing/bhopping is used in lots of combat situations (the same way skulks use it to get in and out of combat in ns).
It's kinda funny how you mention COD when that series (and other similar games) are responsible for dramatically reducing the amount of skill and replayability in current FPS games. NS2 is (I hope) an attempt to run against the grain, in that regard.
One of the big successes of NS1 is how it took skill-based movement in different directions. You had quakeworld/half-life style bunnyhopping on the skulk, blink on the fade, flight on the lerk (in a way I haven't seen any other game do), flight on jetpacks and so on. Right now what we have for the skulk is walljumping, which is a cheap imitation of bunnyhopping - it causes you to predictably use certain map features, i.e. <i>walls</i>, instead of any floor/incline). <b>That </b>bores the hell out of me, since there's less creativity and opportunity to develop the act of "running on a wall and then jumping off of it."
DghelneshiAims to surpass Fana in post edits.Join Date: 2011-11-01Member: 130634Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
edited March 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1908994:date=Mar 2 2012, 02:45 AM:name=MisterNubs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MisterNubs @ Mar 2 2012, 02:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908994"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What reason stands that skulks can't have both bunnyhopping and wall jumping? Are they not suppose to be agile and fast life-forms?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That would overly complicate the game without necessity. There needs to be some depth to movement, but just mindlessly adding stuff on top of one another is not going to work. Bunnyhop (HL) + Strafejump (Quake) + Surfing (Tribes) + Wall jumping (NS2) added on top of each other will make the game ridiculous, rather than interesting (and would also be one of the worst code nightmares anyone has ever seen).
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
<!--quoteo(post=1908965:date=Mar 1 2012, 08:44 PM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Mar 1 2012, 08:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908965"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Does someone go in game and fly around as the lerk for 30 seconds before a build is released?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
seems that our playstyles differ completely. i played an entire match as lerk just before the patch went off, but im using almost glide only which is not affected by that slow down at all. so it's not a matter of 30 seconds to find such bug, depends in this case entirely on the play style.
<!--quoteo(post=1908996:date=Mar 1 2012, 09:51 PM:name=Schimmel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Schimmel @ Mar 1 2012, 09:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908996"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->seems that our playstyles differ completely. i played an entire match as lerk just before the patch went off, but im using almost glide only which is not affected by that slow down at all. so it's not a matter of 30 seconds to find such bug, depends in this case entirely on the play style.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
See, I'm still used to the NS1 lerk where flapping to raise/lower speed had a much bigger effect. I still think it needs to be more like that in NS2 for the class to be effective in combat outside of the gimmicky spores.
Has anyone tried raising the flight speed cap a lot in an internal build? I think it could do a lot for making the class viable, without overpowering it (since the maps are designed so that big speeds don't lose very long no matter what you do).
Forcing every lerk to glide slowly with only close ranged attacks is probably not the best idea..it also goes without saying that the winged alien should have different air friction from the non-winged aliens, right?
<!--quoteo(post=1908965:date=Mar 2 2012, 12:44 AM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Mar 2 2012, 12:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908965"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's kinda funny how you mention COD when that series (and other similar games) are responsible for dramatically reducing the amount of skill and replayability in current FPS games. NS2 is (I hope) an attempt to run against the grain, in that regard.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The point of COD was that it was a departure from the old approach of FPS games, which is probably why it got so popular, it was at one point, a new and different thing.
The problem is that it is now becoming the thing it tried to break from, the trend.
Now I don't think that regressing ten years is the way to go, I would instead prefer for something else to come along to make shooters different again. There's a lot of people putting RPG elements into them, which is interesting, I'd quite like to see an FPS based around RPG style special abilities, crysis does that somewhat well with its suit powers, and fades being able to effectively zelda-dodge I think is kind of a cool thing too.
More stuff like that would be preferred to 'let's remake quake 3 with newer graphics'. I still own quake 3, I can still play it if I want to, but I generally don't, I like new things, like minecraft, that was pretty cool and different when it came out. Never played a game like that before. Company of heroes, that was a really different take on strategy games. That's what makes games interesting and worth playing to me, doing something different to improve the genre, take it new places.
Yeah I'll admit I'm a diehard quake player, but regardless of the mechanics, the reason I like it so much is the replayability. There's so much to develop that you could never rent it from blockbuster and experience the whole game in a weekend. NS2 needs mechanics with a huge vista of possibilities built into them, not cheesy gimmicks like cropduster spores and flamethrowers.
Im wondering if its my connection or something but when I go search for a room +Refresh+ +refresh+ +refresh+! I find a room thats like 11/14.... I enter and nobody is in the server
<!--quoteo(post=1908915:date=Mar 2 2012, 12:34 AM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Mar 2 2012, 12:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908915"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Only that movement and aim are the two most important core pillars of this game. And what are you on about with autoaim and taking away control from players attacking structures... I mean seriously.
That or I need a new battery for my troll detector >:D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nah, not my style. And I'll debate your opinion on movement and aim being the most important core pillars of the game. The most important pillar of Natural Selection is tension, followed closely by atmosphere. The reason these arguments continue ad nauseum is because everyone in the community wants to make Natural Selection "theirs." Because of this, talk on the forums always revolves around <i>mechanics</i>. We spend all day talking about tools and not goals, because a certain percentage of players will jump ship if they are plainly told that NS isn't being made just for them.
And re: changing the way alien melee works: try not to be dogmatic about "this is the way NS should be." A lot has changed in the last decade. Show me someone who believes that a fade blink + swipe dance party combo is more satisfying and accessible than an L4D Hunter pounce and I'll show you a liar.
<!--quoteo(post=1909075:date=Mar 2 2012, 04:29 AM:name=Freemantle)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Freemantle @ Mar 2 2012, 04:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1909075"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The most important pillar of Natural Selection is tension, followed closely by atmosphere.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That may have been so the first week after NS 1.0 release. The subsequent 9 years however, it was gameplay purely. Atmosphere is not a lasting property, and unless you're planning yearly releases (ala CoD), it's best not to build your game around it.
I think giving the Lerk Bile Bomb will be a huge mistake!
Last night I played a game where we were based in Sub-Access and 2 gorges tied us up in base for 10 mins by creating a safe haven from computer lab and just kept bile bombing us again and again. We killed them and they just came back and did it again. The commander had to rebuild IPs and other items preventing him form being able to get ARCs built to get rid of the gorges. The only reason we were able to put an end to it is casue it was gorges and they can't survive without proper support and once the ARCs cleared it all out, they had no choice but to retreat. My point is it was annoying as hell! But a Lerk can get to spots a gorge can't and get away when need be.
I have already watched many players get into positions and gorge, giving them a really great and safe spot to Bile Bomb marine structures. The Vent in Reactor on Summit is a good example, or the high cliff in crevice. Now imagine that the bomber can simply fly by and bomb and gas and fly to safety.. rinse/repeat. At least with the clever gorge players, you could get to them and kill them (in most cases), the lerk being able to fly away will make it very hard to counter. Its annoying enough having to weld everything back to full after 2 or 3 gorges bile rush you, I can't wait to see how annoying it will be when we have a squad of Lerks completely take out a base.
But I am always open to trying it first, so we shall wait and see.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited March 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1909075:date=Mar 2 2012, 04:29 AM:name=Freemantle)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Freemantle @ Mar 2 2012, 04:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1909075"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->because a certain percentage of players will jump ship if they are plainly told that NS isn't being made just for them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Something we've seen many many times on these here forums are quite similar to this. And I've seen on other game forums.
"If you don't release now you'll be outdated and it won't sell"
"If this and that doesn't get added to the game I will leave and many other will as well"
Most of those people are still around, so yeah let's just say people make loud noises but most of them never follow through... Not even mentioning this game and engine is probably the most modable game to be released in a few months time. Easy to work with, fast to test and prototype ideas, ideal for small teams/modders. So there is nothing to stop them from creating their own mods as already proven by the stuff in the NS2 modding forums
<!--quoteo(post=1909075:date=Mar 2 2012, 04:29 AM:name=Freemantle)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Freemantle @ Mar 2 2012, 04:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1909075"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And re: changing the way alien melee works: try not to be dogmatic about "this is the way NS should be." A lot has changed in the last decade. Show me someone who believes that a fade blink + swipe dance party combo is more satisfying and accessible than an L4D Hunter pounce and I'll show you a liar.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Fine I'll bite...
Just because things have changed doesn't mean it is better then what has proven itself over the years that is NS and taking people out of the game by pouncing on them or by some cinematics is not part of what <b>the dev team</b> wants (ie: removal of devour) and is in general frowned upon as it takes control away from the players. 1 marine vs 1 alien should not be mostly alien win using this kind of mechanic. L4D is a completely different game, as well as it is a 4 player coop game or 8 player versus game, that has all kinds of game rules and map design in place to make this actually work/"fun" and force the player to play a certain way. The very same holds true for this game, only the gameplay rules are indeed very different from L4D. Using other games that are so different in terms of gameplay doesn't really work... Just because it is melee vs ranged, doesn't make it similar (gameplay/mechanics)
Like someone already mentioned, gameplay and the depth is has is the way to give game longevity. NS1.0x had a lot very cinematic and atmospherics maps. Maps which gradually were brightened and had less effects in them. One of the reasons was the performance hit on the goldSRC engine, the second reason was because players don't want to fight the environment. Just look at Veil and Eclipse, arguably the most popular maps and compared to the others also lacking the atmospheric sounds/effects other maps had/have.
There is a reason these and other popular NS maps are being remade you know. They might need tweaking in terms of adapting to NS2 gameplay, but the core essentials are still basically the same... NS2 has the benefit of the long history of balancing NS, while adding onto that package...
<!--quoteo(post=1909104:date=Mar 2 2012, 06:49 AM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Mar 2 2012, 06:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1909104"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Like someone already mentioned, gameplay and the depth is has is the way to give game longevity. NS1.0x had a lot very cinematic and atmospherics maps. Maps which gradually were brightened and had less effects in them. One of the reasons was the performance hit on the goldSRC engine, the second reason was because players don't want to fight the environment. Just look at Veil and Eclipse, arguably the most popular maps and compared to the others also lacking the atmospheric sounds/effects other maps had/have.
There is a reason these and other popular NS maps are being remade you know. They might need tweaking in terms of adapting to NS2 gameplay, but the core essentials are still basically the same... NS2 has the benefit of the long history of balancing NS, while adding onto that package...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1909086:date=Mar 2 2012, 04:49 AM:name=Majin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Majin @ Mar 2 2012, 04:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1909086"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Last night I played a game where we were based in Sub-Access and 2 gorges tied us up in base for 10 mins by creating a safe haven from computer lab and just kept bile bombing us again and again. We killed them and they just came back and did it again. The commander had to rebuild IPs and other items preventing him form being able to get ARCs built to get rid of the gorges. The only reason we were able to put an end to it is casue it was gorges and they can't survive without proper support and once the ARCs cleared it all out, they had no choice but to retreat.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just want to say Great Job so far to you guys at UWE! I love seeing all the new 8 v 8 and 9 v 9 servers up now! In NS1 I was always a fan of the big games! Keep up the good work! Can't wait for HA's and HMG's!!!
Had my first games on 199 last night and I enjoyed them. I still have performance problems in late game, but early and mid are a bit better. It seems especially bad in marine base late game. Just outside is ok then as soon as I'm inside the base I drop to one or two frames per second and freeze completely a lot. I also am getting some stuttering now all the time. Its a concern as the game is due out this summer and I have seen a big drop in performance on my PC over the last 10 builds. I have a quad core at 4 ghz, GT480 and 6 gig of RAM so I should be fine. I know UW are optimising etc constantly but my performance is getting worse.
Like the new Skulk movement although I'm reading a lot don't. Seems a touch faster and wall leaping is more fluid.
Don't like the shadowstep at all. I kept doing it without double tapping which was very annoying then when I did want to do it, it often took an extra tap or two. The blink was pretty good as it was and I don't think this new ability is needed. If anything I would have liked to see the acid rocket attack come back instead.
Lerk is still frustrating to play and for 30 res its just a kamikaze bird. Spores are weak and getting anywhere close to marines to drop them really is suicide. I'm using the spikes more though and if used carefully and sneakily its quite easy to rack up kills. I still would prefer to see the Lerk as a support class with the old spore attack, even as an option on second hive.
Skulk and shotgun rushes are still to effective and played some of the shortest games ever last night. One game as alien we took out the marine CC in the first rush and it took about 2 minutes from game start.
Love the welder and building tool. I miss the sparks though :(
<!--quoteo(post=1909078:date=Mar 1 2012, 11:33 PM:name=player)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ Mar 1 2012, 11:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1909078"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That may have been so the first week after NS 1.0 release. The subsequent 9 years however, it was gameplay purely. Atmosphere is not a lasting property, and unless you're planning yearly releases (ala CoD), it's best not to build your game around it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think one of the big successes of NS2 is how the mechanics allow players to create atmosphere and tension (like flamethrowers, dynamic lighting, volumetric effects if we ever see them turned on etc). However, "playing the game" doesn't come down to "controlling atmosphere and tension" - the things that do that are few and far between (like spores, onos charging at unarmored marines, flames igniting fades). If you can't aim and move effectively, whatever else you're doing as a player probably doesn't matter.
Weird, since when is the lerk ability in to stick on walls? I saw someone he said its new and yes, pressing shift while next to wall stick the lerk. amazing! But the "new" skulk movement is crazy, have to habituate to it
Just had a fun game with 2 sneaky Onos, the Comm didn't react in time for a Smash Power Node + Stomp on Obs & PG tactic. I also found out Stomp can end the game if no Marines are alive but IP is still up but disabled, too.
As a Lerk, I do really enjoy the support role for my mates. I may not be the spear-heading Spore Lerk heading into certain doom, but swooping in at opportune times is fun as heck. Can"t wait to try Bile Bomb while flying around.
korvoJoin Date: 2009-11-19Member: 69427Members, Squad Five Blue
There are evil new bugs in 199, please read the reports on your bug-report page (<a href="http://getsatisfaction.com/unknownworlds" target="_blank">getsatisfaction.com/unknownworlds</a>)
Info for all players that don't know this page: This is NOT my personal page, so stop blaming me for making commercial, it is the official bug-report page!
I am loving the changes to the shotgun, and I've read some people complain about skulk movement but I think the fact it's a lot easier to maneuver on walls and ceilings opens tons of ambush and stalking opportunities.
<!--quoteo(post=1909859:date=Mar 4 2012, 07:00 AM:name=korvo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (korvo @ Mar 4 2012, 07:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1909859"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There are evil new bugs in 199, please read the reports on your bug-report page (<a href="http://getsatisfaction.com/unknownworlds" target="_blank">getsatisfaction.com/unknownworlds</a>)
Info for all players that don't know this page: This is NOT my personal page, so stop blaming me for making commercial, it is the official bug-report page!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Might as well put that in your signature, too bad I don't have room for more xO!!
Comments
A <b>menu option</b> to migrate some of the movement modifiers to double taps would be a good one, so the people who want it to free up some space have the option to do so. Moving sprint from shift to forward double tap, and gorge belly slide as well.
It seems like the aliens downgraded, marines upgraded.
Only that movement and aim are the two most important core pillars of this game. And what are you on about with autoaim and taking away control from players attacking structures... I mean seriously.
That or I need a new battery for my troll detector >:D
I don't want to be a huge jerk, but I have an honest question (from the perspective of someone who really likes the lerk and dislikes seeing it get worse and worse):
Does someone go in game and fly around as the lerk for 30 seconds before a build is released?
<!--quoteo(post=1908683:date=Mar 1 2012, 08:57 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Mar 1 2012, 08:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908683"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I never saw the appeal of bunnyhopping, it looks dumb, is needlessly complicated for a basic movement ability, and frankly the idea of it bores the hell out of me. It isn't interesting, it's been done before, it's like making a shooter that's a COD clone, I want something new and different, not the same thing I played ten years ago.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The appeal of bunnyhopping is that it's a skill for players to develop. It's not <i>needlessly </i>complicated because it's not a <i>basic </i>movement ability. It's something beyond the basics.
It offers ways to involve psychology in combat (using air control and map geometry to move in ways your opponents do not predict), even though on the surface it looks like a purely mechanical activity. For a good example of "quake-esque" movement and how it's cool, check <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q76UNcuKSVY" target="_blank">this </a>out. There are other quake movies that are only about movement, but this one shows you how basic strafing/bhopping is used in lots of combat situations (the same way skulks use it to get in and out of combat in ns).
It's kinda funny how you mention COD when that series (and other similar games) are responsible for dramatically reducing the amount of skill and replayability in current FPS games. NS2 is (I hope) an attempt to run against the grain, in that regard.
One of the big successes of NS1 is how it took skill-based movement in different directions. You had quakeworld/half-life style bunnyhopping on the skulk, blink on the fade, flight on the lerk (in a way I haven't seen any other game do), flight on jetpacks and so on. Right now what we have for the skulk is walljumping, which is a cheap imitation of bunnyhopping - it causes you to predictably use certain map features, i.e. <i>walls</i>, instead of any floor/incline). <b>That </b>bores the hell out of me, since there's less creativity and opportunity to develop the act of "running on a wall and then jumping off of it."
That would overly complicate the game without necessity. There needs to be some depth to movement, but just mindlessly adding stuff on top of one another is not going to work. Bunnyhop (HL) + Strafejump (Quake) + Surfing (Tribes) + Wall jumping (NS2) added on top of each other will make the game ridiculous, rather than interesting (and would also be one of the worst code nightmares anyone has ever seen).
seems that our playstyles differ completely. i played an entire match as lerk just before the patch went off, but im using almost glide only which is not affected by that slow down at all. so it's not a matter of 30 seconds to find such bug, depends in this case entirely on the play style.
See, I'm still used to the NS1 lerk where flapping to raise/lower speed had a much bigger effect. I still think it needs to be more like that in NS2 for the class to be effective in combat outside of the gimmicky spores.
Has anyone tried raising the flight speed cap a lot in an internal build? I think it could do a lot for making the class viable, without overpowering it (since the maps are designed so that big speeds don't lose very long no matter what you do).
Forcing every lerk to glide slowly with only close ranged attacks is probably not the best idea..it also goes without saying that the winged alien should have different air friction from the non-winged aliens, right?
The point of COD was that it was a departure from the old approach of FPS games, which is probably why it got so popular, it was at one point, a new and different thing.
The problem is that it is now becoming the thing it tried to break from, the trend.
Now I don't think that regressing ten years is the way to go, I would instead prefer for something else to come along to make shooters different again. There's a lot of people putting RPG elements into them, which is interesting, I'd quite like to see an FPS based around RPG style special abilities, crysis does that somewhat well with its suit powers, and fades being able to effectively zelda-dodge I think is kind of a cool thing too.
More stuff like that would be preferred to 'let's remake quake 3 with newer graphics'. I still own quake 3, I can still play it if I want to, but I generally don't, I like new things, like minecraft, that was pretty cool and different when it came out. Never played a game like that before. Company of heroes, that was a really different take on strategy games. That's what makes games interesting and worth playing to me, doing something different to improve the genre, take it new places.
That or I need a new battery for my troll detector >:D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nah, not my style. And I'll debate your opinion on movement and aim being the most important core pillars of the game. The most important pillar of Natural Selection is tension, followed closely by atmosphere. The reason these arguments continue ad nauseum is because everyone in the community wants to make Natural Selection "theirs." Because of this, talk on the forums always revolves around <i>mechanics</i>. We spend all day talking about tools and not goals, because a certain percentage of players will jump ship if they are plainly told that NS isn't being made just for them.
And re: changing the way alien melee works: try not to be dogmatic about "this is the way NS should be." A lot has changed in the last decade. Show me someone who believes that a fade blink + swipe dance party combo is more satisfying and accessible than an L4D Hunter pounce and I'll show you a liar.
That may have been so the first week after NS 1.0 release. The subsequent 9 years however, it was gameplay purely. Atmosphere is not a lasting property, and unless you're planning yearly releases (ala CoD), it's best not to build your game around it.
Last night I played a game where we were based in Sub-Access and 2 gorges tied us up in base for 10 mins by creating a safe haven from computer lab and just kept bile bombing us again and again. We killed them and they just came back and did it again. The commander had to rebuild IPs and other items preventing him form being able to get ARCs built to get rid of the gorges. The only reason we were able to put an end to it is casue it was gorges and they can't survive without proper support and once the ARCs cleared it all out, they had no choice but to retreat. My point is it was annoying as hell!
But a Lerk can get to spots a gorge can't and get away when need be.
I have already watched many players get into positions and gorge, giving them a really great and safe spot to Bile Bomb marine structures.
The Vent in Reactor on Summit is a good example, or the high cliff in crevice.
Now imagine that the bomber can simply fly by and bomb and gas and fly to safety.. rinse/repeat.
At least with the clever gorge players, you could get to them and kill them (in most cases), the lerk being able to fly away will make it very hard to counter.
Its annoying enough having to weld everything back to full after 2 or 3 gorges bile rush you, I can't wait to see how annoying it will be when we have a squad of Lerks completely take out a base.
But I am always open to trying it first, so we shall wait and see.
Something we've seen many many times on these here forums are quite similar to this. And I've seen on other game forums.
"If you don't release now you'll be outdated and it won't sell"
"If this and that doesn't get added to the game I will leave and many other will as well"
Most of those people are still around, so yeah let's just say people make loud noises but most of them never follow through... Not even mentioning this game and engine is probably the most modable game to be released in a few months time. Easy to work with, fast to test and prototype ideas, ideal for small teams/modders. So there is nothing to stop them from creating their own mods as already proven by the stuff in the NS2 modding forums
<!--quoteo(post=1909075:date=Mar 2 2012, 04:29 AM:name=Freemantle)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Freemantle @ Mar 2 2012, 04:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1909075"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And re: changing the way alien melee works: try not to be dogmatic about "this is the way NS should be." A lot has changed in the last decade. Show me someone who believes that a fade blink + swipe dance party combo is more satisfying and accessible than an L4D Hunter pounce and I'll show you a liar.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fine I'll bite...
Just because things have changed doesn't mean it is better then what has proven itself over the years that is NS and taking people out of the game by pouncing on them or by some cinematics is not part of what <b>the dev team</b> wants (ie: removal of devour) and is in general frowned upon as it takes control away from the players. 1 marine vs 1 alien should not be mostly alien win using this kind of mechanic. L4D is a completely different game, as well as it is a 4 player coop game or 8 player versus game, that has all kinds of game rules and map design in place to make this actually work/"fun" and force the player to play a certain way. The very same holds true for this game, only the gameplay rules are indeed very different from L4D. Using other games that are so different in terms of gameplay doesn't really work... Just because it is melee vs ranged, doesn't make it similar (gameplay/mechanics)
Like someone already mentioned, gameplay and the depth is has is the way to give game longevity. NS1.0x had a lot very cinematic and atmospherics maps. Maps which gradually were brightened and had less effects in them. One of the reasons was the performance hit on the goldSRC engine, the second reason was because players don't want to fight the environment. Just look at Veil and Eclipse, arguably the most popular maps and compared to the others also lacking the atmospheric sounds/effects other maps had/have.
There is a reason these and other popular NS maps are being remade you know. They might need tweaking in terms of adapting to NS2 gameplay, but the core essentials are still basically the same... NS2 has the benefit of the long history of balancing NS, while adding onto that package...
There is a reason these and other popular NS maps are being remade you know. They might need tweaking in terms of adapting to NS2 gameplay, but the core essentials are still basically the same... NS2 has the benefit of the long history of balancing NS, while adding onto that package...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well put.
Cool story bro, needs more FPS :3
Like the new Skulk movement although I'm reading a lot don't. Seems a touch faster and wall leaping is more fluid.
Don't like the shadowstep at all. I kept doing it without double tapping which was very annoying then when I did want to do it, it often took an extra tap or two. The blink was pretty good as it was and I don't think this new ability is needed. If anything I would have liked to see the acid rocket attack come back instead.
Lerk is still frustrating to play and for 30 res its just a kamikaze bird. Spores are weak and getting anywhere close to marines to drop them really is suicide. I'm using the spikes more though and if used carefully and sneakily its quite easy to rack up kills. I still would prefer to see the Lerk as a support class with the old spore attack, even as an option on second hive.
Skulk and shotgun rushes are still to effective and played some of the shortest games ever last night. One game as alien we took out the marine CC in the first rush and it took about 2 minutes from game start.
Love the welder and building tool. I miss the sparks though :(
So true.
I think one of the big successes of NS2 is how the mechanics allow players to create atmosphere and tension (like flamethrowers, dynamic lighting, volumetric effects if we ever see them turned on etc). However, "playing the game" doesn't come down to "controlling atmosphere and tension" - the things that do that are few and far between (like spores, onos charging at unarmored marines, flames igniting fades). If you can't aim and move effectively, whatever else you're doing as a player probably doesn't matter.
I saw someone he said its new and yes, pressing shift while next to wall stick the lerk.
amazing!
But the "new" skulk movement is crazy, have to habituate to it
As a Lerk, I do really enjoy the support role for my mates. I may not be the spear-heading Spore Lerk heading into certain doom, but swooping in at opportune times is fun as heck. Can"t wait to try Bile Bomb while flying around.
Info for all players that don't know this page: This is NOT my personal page, so stop blaming me for making commercial, it is the official bug-report page!
Info for all players that don't know this page: This is NOT my personal page, so stop blaming me for making commercial, it is the official bug-report page!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Might as well put that in your signature, too bad I don't have room for more xO!!