<!--quoteo(post=1890186:date=Dec 13 2011, 08:08 PM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Dec 13 2011, 08:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1890186"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thanks for all the suggestions and changes guys. Lots to think about here.
I especially like the idea of the alien upgrade structures getting buffed by cysts, although visually that is tricky because it doesn't look like a cyst should heal you, or "shade" you. It's possible that alien upgrade structures could scale their effects by the # of nearby cysts (ie, they heal more or faster or at longer range), but that's not a simple change either.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Light particle effects or "auras" around a buffed cyst could identify different links. Otherwise something like... a "crag cyst" gets little plates on its sides, a "shade cyst" grows little tendrils, etc. There could also be a visual cue along the "tendril" linking the two so it's clear that the cyst is partnered with something.
As long as the aliens (and marines?) get a visual cue that they can easily recognize what's going on, that's enough.
By the way, it might be nice for alien flashlight to literally highlight cysts linked to structures as well as the tendrils between them. That way the game looks nice but you get clear instant information when you change view modes.
Will infestation ever become a part of the geometry of the map? Like actually being able to walk on a clump of infestation instead of just through it? I think it would be pretty cool and immersive if a comm or gorge could block off small corridors and doorways with thick vines of infestation. The marines would have to shoot, cut, or flame their way through.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited December 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1890194:date=Dec 13 2011, 08:06 PM:name=Wilson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wilson @ Dec 13 2011, 08:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1890194"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I kinda like the idea of thick infestation spread being an actual resource. Like the larger area you cover in infestation the more hive energy you get or something like that. Make it so that just placing a single cyst chain creates a really thin strand of infestation. You'd need to choose between quickly expanding to res towers and then not having much hive energy, or spreading the infestation thicker but not expanding as fast and having less RTs. Hive energy would need be used for upgrades or something though in order to really make both options strategic viable in certain situations.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wilson, i believe you are onto something here.. Aliens use infestation spread as a form of resource collecting, with only X amount allowed per area distance (sort of like how max amount of items in room work) so it forces you to PUSH your way through and control a map and Extractors being just for marines with already placed nodes throughout the map as currently implemented (meanwhile allow marines to utilize tech points toward their tech somehow [not a comm chair obviously] and bam both sides of equal abilities to gain both tech and resources but in different ways related to map control!!)
<b><u>this would completely solve turtling, imo,</u></b> especially if you have a finite amount of resources allowed on both sides (enough to allow an hour long match or whatever time) Marines run out of mining material and aliens organic lifetime expires without new ground to cover by withering away
I don't like the "it's only possible to fight infestation from the edges" idea; if there's a branch heading say from crevice to crossroads marines should be able to cut it off in the middle.
<i>But</i>, there should be something to make marines hesitant to just walk over infestation — say, a chance of tripping (especially when going backwards) with a 5-10pt HP penalty. The tripping thing should make meeting a fade on infestation significantly more scary than on open ground.
Edit: should probably also be something to stop resource-loaded aliens just plopping infestation all over the marine base — make it grow slowly from the edges, say.
<!--quoteo(post=1890223:date=Dec 14 2011, 09:42 AM:name=Redlightning)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Redlightning @ Dec 14 2011, 09:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1890223"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Will infestation ever become a part of the geometry of the map? Like actually being able to walk on a clump of infestation instead of just through it? I think it would be pretty cool and immersive if a comm or gorge could block off small corridors and doorways with thick vines of infestation. The marines would have to shoot, cut, or flame their way through.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This. Oh my god this. Imagine entering data core only to find it looking like a spiderweb of vines. Vines in which you would have to cut through to get entrance.
Not sure if it's helpful, but I stumbled across this article earlier... <a href="http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~amitp/game-programming/polygon-map-generation/" target="_blank">http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~amitp...map-generation/</a>
I wonder if some of these ideas could be implemented into the prototype tool?
<!--quoteo(post=1890228:date=Dec 14 2011, 07:42 PM:name=Cyborg16)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cyborg16 @ Dec 14 2011, 07:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1890228"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't like the "it's only possible to fight infestation from the edges" idea; if there's a branch heading say from crevice to crossroads marines should be able to cut it off in the middle.
<i>But</i>, there should be something to make marines hesitant to just walk over infestation — say, a chance of tripping (especially when going backwards) with a 5-10pt HP penalty. The tripping thing should make meeting a fade on infestation significantly more scary than on open ground.
Edit: should probably also be something to stop resource-loaded aliens just plopping infestation all over the marine base — make it grow slowly from the edges, say.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> For me, it's all about risk vs reward. Cutting off a major trunk-line that starves out three forward bases is a <b>massive</b> reward. It needs to carry an appropriate level of risk, and one way to encourage that is to make severing a major trunk take longer than taking out an isolated cyst. It gives more time for alien players to respond, and thus greatly increases the level of risk involved.
1. I highly recommend you that avoid much more polygons. Instead of connected polygons use randomly generated objects (e.g. more than 20 infested models) which makes everything easier. Not a texture but low polygon textured objects. It is something like putting different models of Cysts everywhere within limits. But you need generated animations for each of those objects.
I know that you imagine this at the first but you want to make soemthing complex, But that is simple and it is usefull, high performance and simple for us.
2. The more complex one is store infestation lines only as objects in server and on thtestse client side NS2 engine may generate those infestations according to line positions and surfaces. It is something like webbing. This coding may be hard but probably your infestation is same or close to this. Thid means high load for clients.
3. Less and less polygons, low textures please ! Consider this whatever you do. I would like to recommend you to do FPS tests for those models.
<!--quoteo(post=1890194:date=Dec 14 2011, 04:06 AM:name=Wilson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wilson @ Dec 14 2011, 04:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1890194"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I kinda like the idea of thick infestation spread being an actual resource. Like the larger area you cover in infestation the more hive energy you get or something like that. Make it so that just placing a single cyst chain creates a really thin strand of infestation. You'd need to choose between quickly expanding to res towers and then not having much hive energy, or spreading the infestation thicker but not expanding as fast and having less RTs. Hive energy would need be used for upgrades or something though in order to really make both options strategic viable in certain situations.
It would really make the aliens play a lot differently from the marines if all their upgrades were tied into energy which was dependent on infestation spread, while their lifeforms would still require Res to evolve.
I also thought it would always be cool if you had different types of structures that you could place on the res nodes which would do different things. Like the upgrade structures had to be built on the res nodes, making them more vulnerable and forcing expansion.
Just throwing ideas out there.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wilson, Techercizer and ironhorse, check out this idea I had the other day, it pretty much expands on what you suggest here.
I... Uh... I do agree with the implication that performance shouldn't suffer as infestation grows... In much the same way that performance doesn't suffer when you add more and more new light sources (by setting everything on fire).
I agree that infestation shouldn't massively <i>increase</i> the poly-count of a given area... But that's not the same thing as saying the area should be low-poly to begin with.
matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
I have a hard time seeing any advantage in the prototype Charlie showed - it looks cool, but I rather discuss what the aim and purpose is behind alien infestation. Once that's done, you can start talking about implementing it.
Now, it might be that Charlies' idea about infestation hasn't jelled yet, so he's poking around the edges to see if he can get a handle on it.
The current cyst-based infestation is just a placeholder, that's a given. Unfortunately, exactly what it is holding a place _for_ isn't clear.
However, we can always analyze the current system and see what its strength and weaknesses are
- pros (compared to the pre-cyst infestation system) * solved the problem with vulnerable-to-FT only infestation by adding easy-to-kill cysts * limits infestation to follow the map constraints * gorge-art! * a lot less CPU intensive
- cons * cysts are so easy to kill, the aliens are always vulnerable to single marines going around killing cysts. Basically, instead of a infestation being a good thing to aliens, its now a vulnerability because any cyst is just two shotgun blasts (0.9 seconds) away from being dead. * FT lost one of its roles * infestation is now so easy to kill, marines are just yawning at it. It does not give a sense of threat. * dropping a cyst and having an infestation growing out of it does not give an organic feel to infestation. It just feels artificial. * with enough energy, an alien commander can drop a line of cysts straight across the map in about 10 seconds. That's not an infestation - that's carpet bombing. * Once a cyst has generated an infestation and that infestation has reached its fully-grown size, the infestation is static and feels dead (though the bubblies does help with this).
(Feel free to come up with more pros/cons)
Now, the above cons could possibly be solved, but there are several possible solutions and in order to choose the right one, you need to know what the purpose of infestation is. Is it to be mostly decorative, with a small amount of game-tweak effects like now? Or is infestation supposed to be a core game mechanic, with the game being a race between marines teching up and fighting off the inexorably growing infestation, with games ending with infestation waves lapping up towards the marine base, or marines flying or fighting their way through heavy infestation to kill an alien hive?
(In case its not obvious; yea, I kinda like the latter).
I rather discuss this aspect of infestation rather than discussing mechanism to place cysts.
I just made a simple example to how to make Cyst based infestation. It took 10 min or less for me but it should be upgraded as shown in second pic. There are also walls and corners needs to be considered.
I think one problem that might arise, is that even if you give people a choice of how to lay out a network of cysts in an interesting way, the best way is still going to be to go as far as possible to other rooms & nodes as sparsely as possible. Getting more coverage and making the highway more resilient are nice, but I don't see that ever being worth as much as getting as far across the map in as few cysts as possible.
Maybe if there was more reward for using extra cysts? Such as that resource for creep cover idea, or the cyst enhancing structures idea. Another idea might be to add tactical advantages, like if you have denser cysts, tall grass sprouts from the creep and provides skulks some ground cover. At least hive rooms should be covered... maybe the max # of eggs depends on creep coverage of hive room? You would have to choose aggressive expansion and resources vs. respawn rate for your army.
Another approach is to change the costs involved with placing cysts. Maybe the energy cost of placing a cyst could depend on it's position. Imagine a branching line that passes through the center of all major rooms and hallways on the map. Call it the "world line". If you draw the shortest line between a cyst and the world line, call that point on the world line the "cyst point" on the world line. The cost of placing a new cyst could depend on the distance to the next closest cyst point of an already existing cyst.
Cysts that go straight for the next rooms and nodes would be more expensive than ones that just reinforce held areas, making those extra cysts easier to justify.
Agreed, most decent RTS player for any RTS game will tell you map control is of upmost importance, if you have decent micro you will be able to defend your 'over reaching / over extending supply lines' quite sufficiently. So: Good NS2 teams will push hard, *then* consolidate. Just like, well, NS1 I guess?
<!--quoteo(post=1890131:date=Dec 13 2011, 12:21 PM:name=culprit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (culprit @ Dec 13 2011, 12:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1890131"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just an aesthetic adjustment that has been suggested by others: have the khaam place a 'pheromone waypoint' that directs the vines to grow to a point, where they intersect a cyst is grown. Functionally, it will work the same way, but the growth would appear more natural. The vines will grow out fairly quickly - pointing towards the location where a cyst will begin to grow and eventually harden. This will make it more difficult to expand DI and cysts in areas with marine presence. If the marines see the vines growing, they will be alerted to the new cyst placement ahead of time. The cyst will again HP over time, so killing it as soon as it starts to grow would be very quick/easy in comparison to a cyst that has been in place for a while (or with many connected cysts).
This would also encourage more alien teamplay around protecting the DI expansion. Alien players would see these 'pheromone waypoints' signaling the khaams expansion plans. A few marines could hamper the expansion pretty easily if there are no aliens to confront them. This gives the DI network weakness at the edges and during expansion while maintaining resiliency at the core and making older growth tougher to kill.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I definitely like this idea in some form. I also really like the ideas where there is <i>purpose and benefit</i> to the infestation.
BTW before I start: I think you guys at UkW are doing an amazing job. The following is primarily a memorandum for you. That said:
I don't think you guys at UkW have made your intentions clear. Is your intention to have realism as your priority or gameplay? You can't have both as your priority. IMO it would be helpful to know.
If the priority is realism, I think the quoted post above starts in on a good idea.
Just think about it. If you were an alien super-organism bent on conquest that grows very quickly in an intended direction, do you think you would have things like cysts as a single-point-of-failure weakness in that all the surrounding organism material would die? No you wouldn't, at least not for very long. Isn't that the point of infestation: to have a seamless "full-mesh" web of interconnected organism that is difficult to kill? However, it makes sense for cysts to exist if there is a benefit to the organism with a certain "calculated" drawback, but not the death of ALL of the surrounding infestation (when mature). I guess one has to state the purpose of the cyst in terms of the organism for there to be a logical reason for it to be there.
That said, I will create a reason for you (perhaps there is one somewhere else that I haven't seen): one type (the default type?) of cyst acts as a nutrient repository for the newly-growing infestation. When the infestation has had time to grow enough and connect itself robustly to the rest of the infestation it can then survive on it's own without the need of the cyst. I think that under normal circumstances, <i>all</i> mature infestation should grow outwardly at all times. Just like a plant. Perhaps there are times when it does not grow outwardly e.g. for a particular amount of time after being damaged.
I can imagine how this looks; very similar to the quoted post above. A vine (nutrient conduit; literally a pipe for fluid) grows out quickly in one "organic" direction. It then relatively quickly forms a cyst. After the cyst is formed, infestation rapidly is able to grow out from it in all directions. Speed of direction may be determined relative to gravity and perhaps the "shininess" of the surface (a rough surface is perhaps easier for the infestation to grow on). After the infestation matures, the usefulness of the cyst may expire or the cyst may turn into something that can disburse healing or spores or defense etc, or maybe it remains just as it is.
Perhaps if a vine/conduit/pipe that is growing out from a cyst/hive takes damage, it does something like what you would expect to see if you cut off a plant stem: it continues to grow, but out the side of the stem and then forward. Perhaps it takes some time to heal and continue growing.
There could be a purpose for other cysts: healing, defense, spores etc.
After the infestation matures, there could be good reason to have the nutrient-conduit cysts just harden over or perhaps continue to be a nutrient conduit for added localized super growth. It also could be emergency "health" for local infestation. Basically like armor for infestation. Or perhaps temporary "health" for it if it somehow got wholesale cut off from a hive.
As far as the localized super-growth is concerned: we'll assume that infestation that is mature will grow on its own indefinitely and to an unlimited lateral distance; and mature infestation is defined as infestation that <i>well-connected</i> with hive infestation e.g. not just a little strip of local infestation connected with the hive infestation, but instead a good meaty chunk; and infestation that is not mature will not grow without a cyst; and infestation that is mature and has a cyst has localized (relative to the cyst) "super-growth" capability; let's also assume there is a hive and two nutrient-conduit cysts both with mature infestation: (cyst a) and (cyst b):
(hive)-----(cyst a)-----(cyst b)
However for the sake of clarity, let's start with this situation:
(hive)-----(cyst a)
We'll also assume that (cyst a) has infestation that is mature. We can then assume that the conduit between the (hive) and (cyst a) is of a certain size for it to have "standard" 1x localized super-growth.
Now refer to the initial scenario of two cysts which includes the addition of (cyst b); again, both with fully mature infestation. We'll assume "standard" 1x localized super growth for <i>both</i> cysts. If we assume this, logic follows that (cyst a)'s conduit to the hive will have to grow to twice the volume (2x). A graphical change should thus ensue. This would mean that (cyst a) is keeping 1x of the nutrient flow and passing 1x of it to (cyst b). It also means that the (cyst b) conduit is at least 1x volume.
However, if we are to assume that both cysts will not necessarily have "standard" 1x super-growth and perhaps the <i>only</i> "standard" 1x super growth that's occurring is (cyst b), then (cyst b) would be passed all of the nutrients. <b>This could be a really interesting networking/piping mechanic</b> for the alien commander to set: each cyst being either a pass-through or "cut off" for the nutrients. If it's a "cut off" it would horde the nutrients and have localized super-growth. If not, it would simply pass them through. Perhaps if you allow upgrades to the cysts (and perhaps thusly cyst conduits) e.g. 1x, 2x, 3x, localized super growth would increase by 1x, 2x, 3x and then perhaps you could also granularly pass 1x, 2x, or 3x of the nutrient flow to a particular connected cyst, depending upon how much nutrient flow is available. Of course, the cyst-to-cyst connection may need to be upgraded to support the appropriate flow rate.
You could arbitrarily "cap" the infestation super-growth to 1x and just have the capability of passing super-growth on to more cysts (1x, 2x, 3x) if balance is an issue. However, the former is more interesting and dynamic to me.
You could also arbitrarily define that the only localized super growth that is allowed is via the cysts furthest in the chain from the hive. This would then eliminate the alien-commander per-cyst flow/cut-off mechanic.
A recommendation would be to have default settings that the commander can then micromanage.
An important side note about infestation taking damage: Ok let's first imagine a slimy mossy goo on the ground. How would you kill it in real life? Scraping it up with sharp metallic objects? yes. Flamethrowers? yes. Chemicals? Perhaps. Bullets, no. Bullets would make a small hole in the infestation. You'd have to shoot 20k rounds at a patch of infestation in an orderly fashion to kill it all. It would be drastically faster to scrape it off the ground.
Now, all that being said, <i>if your priority is gameplay</i> and not realism, keeping what you have now is fine. Small refinements would only be necessary e.g. adding benefits to buildings etc. I command alien a lot, and enjoy the way it is now it minus the bugs.
By the way, I think you could do some cool things with infestation colors. Hint: infestation in some places doesn't benefit from chlorophyll - at least in terms of light-to-food production. To take it one step further than aesthetics, this could even act as some sort of information source: maturity, purpose, or health of local infestation, location of local marines on infestation, or resistance to a particular damage type. I'm sure there are other possibilities.
Also, if you decide that "networking" a lot of cysts in one room would be cool, you <i>could</i> simply shrink the size of cysts to get more of them per room. I don't know if there are any practical/aesthetic limitations if this were to be done, though. The current per-area build cap would need to be increased, though.
<!--quoteo(post=1890223:date=Dec 14 2011, 09:42 AM:name=Redlightning)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Redlightning @ Dec 14 2011, 09:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1890223"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Will infestation ever become a part of the geometry of the map? Like actually being able to walk on a clump of infestation instead of just through it? I think it would be pretty cool and immersive if a comm or gorge could block off small corridors and doorways with thick vines of infestation. The marines would have to shoot, cut, or flame their way through.
<!--quoteo(post=1890231:date=Dec 14 2011, 04:25 AM:name=Nixxen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nixxen @ Dec 14 2011, 04:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1890231"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> This. Oh my god this. Imagine entering data core only to find it looking like a spiderweb of vines. Vines in which you would have to cut through to get entrance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can envision gorges like spiders, but shooting infestation "webs" out of their mouths.
I think the very natural solution to how DI should work can be seen in slime mold: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwKuFREOgmo" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwKuFREOgmo</a> or <a href="http://www.google.co.uk/search?um=1&hl=en&biw=1264&bih=702&tbm=isch&q=slime+mold+network&oq=slime+mold+network&aq=f&aqi=g-S1&gs_upl=12653l14085l0l14324l8l8l0l4l4l0l230l728l0.3.1l4l0" target="_blank">in Google</a>
It still looks kind of alien while being realistic (or real)
I am not convinced to the model where commanders build paths of infestation manually but even if so the slime mold-like growth would make it look cool.
<!--quoteo(post=1890201:date=Dec 14 2011, 05:53 PM:name=maD maX)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (maD maX @ Dec 14 2011, 05:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1890201"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think as far as upgradeing and hp of cysts we should let nature take care of that ... Ie the large or more connections to the hive the more nutrients the more hp ... EX if you want a forward cyct to have high hp you can't just make it stronger unless you strengthen it's support and renforce... Cool result if you connect cyst chains they all increase in hp... That chain from hive A to B is very strong...,
Oh and quick pitch for power node cyst that can be built on destroyed or unbuilt power nodes... Result atmospheric changes(lights fog and such). And interference for marien comm in those rooms(comm can't see anything in alien hive unless he scans or marine kills powe cyst, if rine wants a med pack comm is dropping blind unless he scans or kills power cyst). Maybe cool static effect for the the comm...
Quick reason I think it should be a power cyct and not a natural part of infestation, early game first min or so dont want rine com to see or "not see" where you are... Let alien comm deside when to implement this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Going on atmospheric changes, I think the cyst would be great, if the power node is destroyed, it should have grace period (this is the time it takes until the back up power switches on, the red lights) then once this grace period is over, alien comm needs to get infestation into that room, once that's accomplished and it's near enough to cover the nodes location, he selects a builder, hovers his mouse over the empty power-node and has a transparent structure appear (indicating he can build a structure there), once he presses the right/left click to build (what ever you click to command builders to build something), a pop up box ask to confirm it, then clicking yes the builder goes to the empty node and builds a special looking cyst. This cyst has a building time and once built has a "growth period" (the time it takes for it's specialness to shine,, the idea is that it's growing infestation into the circuits to choke them from functioning properly). Once this "growth period" is over, the power switches off completely and everything turns pitch black (also some lights may flicker but majority of the time all lighting is off) and fog/mist starts to emit out of the cyst node filling the room causing visibility to be difficult even with a torch on... the only way to restore the room is to destroy the cyst-node, wait (the same time it take for the cysts "growth period" or something like 2/3 or 3/4 the time), and then once the red lights appear again, your back to normal being able to build a power-node and further secure the area. The idea of all the waiting is so it isn't easy to turn into a alien dominated area (marines depend on lighting while aliens not so much, also a great chance to really implement the torch and the desire of those epic flickering lights). Hope you like it. And I'm pretty sure it won't be OP for the aliens while making more of an atmosphere for aliens, also when the back up power is on, red lights, it's like the area becomes contested, since normally we know power-node being used, marine territory, infestation showing alien territory with red back up lights, but other spots just don't have infestation and we consider that to be contested, but having the atmosphere where no light is being emitted, everything's misty/foggy, red FLICKERING lights if anything, infestation everywhere, and alien structures, eggs, and aliens, now that seems like an alien territory..
<b>Feedback on video:</b> Awesome. It's great for followers to see the fluidity of the design & prototyping process and how design versus technical constraints is tackled.
Few quick ideas:
<b>Cyst Suicide Mechanics</b> Really like the notion of the Cyst Suicide feature. Here's how I envisage it: <!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=johnnyvdoremalen@Youtube)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (johnnyvdoremalen@Youtube)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Scale the damage of a cyst blowing up to the amount of hp remaining (less hp -> less damage), this way the choice of the commander sacrificing it will be more meaningful. He wouldn't wait until 1% hp on every cyst then blow it up just in time. If you blow it up automatically at 0% hp for a small amount of damage, some commanders might chose not to pay attention to the cysts and focus somewhere else on the map. But yeah, I was also hoping for ingame footage :) Keep up the good work though! :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Agree, but it should have a delay (click 'explode' and it explodes 2 seconds later dealing damage according to final health percentage. Maybe increase Marine slow in a radius during charge-up and add a clear sound or just visual effect (see <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NUVAZ92Wis" target="_blank">League of Legends Nunu ultimate</a>). This opens it up for some amazing depth and risk-reward mechanics: <ul><li> Means you can't always deal instant damage, which I think would stop people from ever attacking nodes with axes</li><li> Gives Marine an opportunity to retreat, or to persist and risk getting snagged in pursuit of the deny (plus he'll get some res for the deny)</li><li> Adds depth to feature for the Commander, since you need to pay attention to your territory and predict ahead of time if you think a node will be destroyed</li><li> Commander can even set up well-timed traps to kill advancing or retreating Marines</li><li> Means Marines can juke the Alien Commander by forcing him to suicide a node in less time than it would take for the Marine to chop it down</li></ul> I can't really see any downsides. It just sounds fun-fun-fun to me and not to difficult to implement!
<b>Dying on the creep</b> Set of 3 or so (for variation) canned animations that trigger if a Marine dies on the creep. The infestation, detecting a target no longer physically able to fight back, expends some energy to secure a greater source of energy. It appears to lash out and out and snare the Marine, who cries and lashes out in his death throes as he is dragged down to the floor and enveloped, leaving the mound that Charlie described.
The mound is either persistent or slowly 'melts' away as the energy boost dissipates. It might even be an optimisation if you have a canned anim instead of ragdoll and you have a low-poly mound instead of a detailed corpse instance, and you have an elegant way of removing the corpse from the world over time. The downside is it's quite a lot of animation work and it may be difficult to blend from the animation playing at the time of death into the canned one (I'd imagine marines who die while jumping or running would be an issue, unless you only start the anim once the ragdoll hits the floor and is turned into a rigid body).
Could do a similar thing with Aliens, even the lashing out part. I kind of like the way the creep would act indiscriminately to individual entities to further the survival of the species.
<b>Gorge Infestation 'Snail Trail'</b> Maybe the Gorge leaves a light infestation trail behind him as he goes. <ul><li> On infestation this would add a small multiplier to the rate of infestation expansion</li><li> Could be used to temporarily connect locations within a short distance of eachother</li><li> Means Gorges have an interesting support/escape ability in non-infested areas by slowing Marines who are chasing allies</li><li> Means Gorges can be tracked when they venture too far into Marine territory</li></ul>
<!--quoteo(post=1890459:date=Dec 17 2011, 01:08 AM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Crispy @ Dec 17 2011, 01:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1890459"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>Feedback on video:</b> Awesome. It's great for followers to see the fluidity of the design & prototyping process and how design versus technical constraints is tackled.
Few quick ideas:
<b>Cyst Suicide Mechanics</b> Really like the notion of the Cyst Suicide feature. Here's how I envisage it:
Agree, but it should have a delay (click 'explode' and it explodes 2 seconds later dealing damage according to final health percentage. Maybe increase Marine slow in a radius during charge-up and add a clear sound or just visual effect (see <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NUVAZ92Wis" target="_blank">League of Legends Nunu ultimate</a>).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I like the idea to an extent I think a great idea for this is yes, press explode/sell building, 2-3 seconds later boom-! but, only having a visual and perhaps a sound to identify it about to explode, giving marines time to escape, also I was thinking it would rock, if attacking with an axe, you can pop it if the aliens decide to explode it, but in popping it depending on how quickly you popped it means how much damage you receive by it, so if it takes 3 seconds or 3.4-5 seconds to explode and deals 100 damage, then popping it at 1 second deals roughly 29 - 33 or 31 damage, 2 seconds 41 - 50, 3 seconds or 3. 4-5 seconds 90 - 100 damage. if caught in the blast a slight instant speed decrease then fade back to normal, with a flash bang high pitch noise from the bang. but just remember these are cysts so their not the greatest of structures or not as far as I know of. But helpful none-the-less. So to try simplify it, if the alien comm, decides to pop them, then you can decide, slash and take a little bit of damage or run to avoid allot of damage, and so depending on once it begins to try and explode you gotta think fast, hack it or run, maybe leaving it a little strong so if your working as a team if it's going to take three hacks to pop it, then three peps are great, but if it's only one person chances are by the point you hit it enough times, your hurt, severely hurt, or dead, or missing because you pretty much dropped your axe and run.
<!--quoteo(post=1890243:date=Dec 14 2011, 11:50 AM:name=matso)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (matso @ Dec 14 2011, 11:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1890243"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- cons dropping a cyst and having an infestation growing out of it does not give an organic feel to infestation. It just feels artificial.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I don't see how it's much more different than the very natural act of a seed growing and spreading its roots and stem from where it was dropped.
Do you mean that the way the user interface works feels artificial?
So, I envisioned the infestation spreading out as a sort of safe zone for aliens it provides some safety and healing, as well as providing map control, and vision to the team. I envisioned vines as more of a power line sort of thing, which would tie patches of the infestation together, and back to the alien team. This makes Cysts like streetlights.
It makes sense that a vine and a cyst could be upgraded. either by themselves or as a part of the network the alien team builds. This would allow you to spend lots or resources building a line of cysts that would fortify your area or to utilize vines to expand quickly but create blind spots that could then be exploited. to sever the network.
This creates a choice for the alien team, between fast and weak and strong and slow.
The upgrade system makes sense to be both automatic and to be manual. so Cysts and vines would slowly grow based on a set of constraints, say number of surrounding Cysts, but if the alien team wanted they could buy upgrades to areas. this would allow a new hive to have a bigger cyst faster.
This again adds a choice between expensive and strong and cheap and weak.
With a vine the upgrade system would add health and length.
For a cyst it would add to healing speed and the scale of the infestation around it.
As people pointed out it would be really cool to be able to tell how upgraded a Cyst or vine would be by looking at it. So a vine might be thicker and look more grown as it upgrades.
One of the problems with spend money on cysts is that they are pretty vulnerable. So I would propose that a high level cysts slowly sinks into the infestation surrounding it as it gets larger. this does two things, first it ties the cyst into the infestation and secondly it makes teh marines get closer to shoot at it.
basically we have a damage reduction that scales inversely to distance from the Cyst as it sinks into the Infestation around it.
This give the marines a choice to attack the infestation on the floor with a flame thrower or to enter the infestation, and thus be lit up like a Christmas tree to the alien team.
This means that heavily infested ares are offer the aliens an advantage and the marines have to make choices about where and how to attack it. , i think
I made a processing sketch to show how it might work for a single cyst. <a href="http://housemark.co/games/ns2-cyst/" target="_blank">Try it out</a>
TLDR: think of vines as power lines, cysts as streetlights, and the infestation like the comforting yellow glow under a streetlight in a horror film. then click the link, play with the number and bam done.
How about infestation slowly covering cysts like a protective layer. It will reduce the damage the cysts take but can be burnt away with the flamethrower.
In addition infestation should begin to shrink if burnt with flamethrowers, the motivation being that the infestation sacrifices it outer parts to heal burnt parts created by flamethrowers.
<!--quoteo(post=1890564:date=Dec 16 2011, 04:27 PM:name=Forss)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Forss @ Dec 16 2011, 04:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1890564"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How about infestation slowly covering cysts like a protective layer. It will reduce the damage the cysts take but can be burnt away with the flamethrower.
In addition infestation should begin to shrink if burnt with flamethrowers, the motivation being that the infestation sacrifices it outer parts to heal burnt parts created by flamethrowers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I really like this suggestion. One of the nice things about it is that it provides a conduit for one of the hypothetical properties of DI that I've always wanted to see: The ability for infestation to grow and thicken until it completely changes how the room looks (or even after enough time, grow so thick that exosuited marines would be unable to fit through without burning some off).
I've also got to love how it brings the weed-trimming spotlight back to the flamethrower.
<!--quoteo(post=1890502:date=Dec 16 2011, 04:39 PM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Crispy @ Dec 16 2011, 04:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1890502"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't see how it's much more different than the very natural act of a seed growing and spreading its roots and stem from where it was dropped.
Do you mean that the way the user interface works feels artificial?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seeds and plants aren't all one lifeform. Each seed sustains itself.
The way infestation works is much closer to a fungus, which spreads out to fill space and has no taproot or stem or weak point, it just grows, and every single fiber serves to connect back to the whole. There are the occasonal specialised growths, usually for spreading spores, but fungus is not usually photosynthetic so picking them wouldn't kill it, it'd just stop it from doing whatever that particular growth does.
The only way to kill a fungus is to kill every bit of it, either by changing the environmental conditions so that it dies, or by finding all the bits and killing them all directly.
From all of that, I think the NS2 infestation should just grow on its own, with the commander being able to stimulate growth in a particular direction, maybe by dropping cysts, but cysts should not be required to keep it alive.
I think it'd be much better if dropping a cyst made the infestation in the local area grow faster around the cyst, and also made it regenerate much faster when damaged. This allows cysts to serve as a means of controlling growth, and also of sustaining growth under tough conditions.
With this model, I think cysts should be droppable anywhere, and be able to keep themselves alive, but the infestation doesn't grow from them, it grows from the hive. Cysts just make it grow FASTER. So you can imagine the commander dropping a chain of cysts across the map, and maybe little spores or something come out of the hive and fly to the spots and seed a little cyst there. The cysts just sit there doing nothing, but then if you wait you see the infestation growing quickly across the map, from the hive room. I think it'd be pretty awesome as a marine, to walk into an area that maybe a gorge has hidden a bunch of cysts in, and to see this green stuff growing out of the doorway on the other side of the room and slowly spreading across the room as you walk across it. That's INFINITELY cooler than the current approach.
In order for infestation to stay alive, it needs to connect to the hive, but it does so simply by being connected, there's no vines or cyst network, if the infestation connects to the hive along its surface, it's sustained and grows freely. To cut off infestation marines have to isolate it completely from the hive, which means finding a narrow hallway and burning it clear and keeping it clear until the infestation dies off.
Things like structures are the specialised growth, killing them doesn't kill infestation, it just stops the structure from doing what it does.
If a patch of infestation is cut off from the hive, the structures on it should slow down, heal slower, active abilities don't work, the infestation recedes back to the cysts.
To kill infestation you would just damage it, with anything. Spray it with bullets, fire, grenades, whatever. Anything works, it just takes time and flamers would obviously be the best choice because they spread damage around a lot. Killing cysts would make it easier, but you still have to clear it yourself.
You could also add some new marine structures or structure functionality. A CC for example might be able to connect to the power node in a room and use it to clear infestation from the room it's in. You could also make a secondary mode for arcs which destroys infestation around them, like a constant sonic pulse or something.
I don't think that the cyst mechanic is the best or the only way to allow marines to clear infestation without flamethrowers. This system means you can site your bases to cut off infestation progress through the map, position arcs in the second mode to block it, and use your marines to attack weak points to cut off chains if they can keep alive long enough to do so.
What came to mind for me was around the network health and stability. If you think in terms of bandwidth (Internet, Trees, Human Body, ETC). At the core you have very fast or large connections and then it branches out from there. You would never consider connecting two large areas with a 56k modem or a little blood vessel. So I think you should have a bandwidth aspect to what can be supported on each limb of the infestation. If the alien team wants to place 3 hydras and 2 crags in a neighboring unbuilt hive there should be a cost to support those resources until the hive comes online. Perhaps a gorge would no longer be placing mini cysts but instead they would be beefing up the current network by placing enhancements along the route (Increase Capacity, Increase Defense, or Increasing Stealth). The idea being it may be better to simply hide a small backup connection or if it's the main trunk you can't hide that but simply need to reinforce it with armor or risk it all and just go for an undefended high capacity line.
Perhaps one feature that could be useful for any of this is the ability for an alien comm to stim pack areas of the network that are under attack or providing healing to the front line fighters. This would throttle other branches of the network and give bonus to the structures in the area while making other parts susceptible. This could also play into other peoples suggestions for using crags to push healing or umbra back into the network. Then under normal operations the high level features not available unless they are close to a main trunk or have the temporary effects of the stim pack.
<!--quoteo(post=1890609:date=Dec 17 2011, 08:44 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Dec 17 2011, 08:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1890609"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Seeds and plants aren't all one lifeform. Each seed sustains itself.
The way infestation works is much closer to a fungus, which spreads out to fill space and has no taproot or stem or weak point, it just grows, and every single fiber serves to connect back to the whole. There are the occasonal specialised growths, usually for spreading spores, but fungus is not usually photosynthetic so picking them wouldn't kill it, it'd just stop it from doing whatever that particular growth does.
The only way to kill a fungus is to kill every bit of it, either by changing the environmental conditions so that it dies, or by finding all the bits and killing them all directly.
From all of that, I think the NS2 infestation should just grow on its own, with the commander being able to stimulate growth in a particular direction, maybe by dropping cysts, but cysts should not be required to keep it alive.
I think it'd be much better if dropping a cyst made the infestation in the local area grow faster around the cyst, and also made it regenerate much faster when damaged. This allows cysts to serve as a means of controlling growth, and also of sustaining growth under tough conditions.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I really like this idea. There are however some issues with severing the paths of infestation. Would it just recede away from where you spray your bullets? It wouldn't be easy to make it appear right and be intuitive. If you instead use vines that the infestation slowly spreads out around, you would cut the vine and make the part not connected slowly die with the infestation receding from it meanwhile. The infestation should grown with time, but the spread should decrease exponentially so that you get some fast but much slowly.
The vine would start of from the hive, and then you can direct it and also branch it. Directing it just tells it where to go, while branching it would strengthen the entire vein leading up to the branch. This would make the vine much harder to kill at the hive, yet so much more rewarding. As you work with a vine, I think you want three options: direct, branch, and connect. Starting with a one-hive system, the vine would be of power "one". That means that the outermost vines would have the health "one" while we go back towards the hive, the vine would increase in power by "one" for each branch it passes. I don't think directing should cost anything, while branching would cost (energy or res as suitable). I draw an image, as I am told those explain more than a thousand words ;)
The main point of connect would be to add different branches together. Doing so will make them continue as one after the connection, with their respective power added together. Connecting a vine from a new hive will connect both systems and increase the power of all vines by "one". The actual durability from a certain power would have to be balanced and probably wouldn't be linear :)
<!--quoteo(post=1890807:date=Dec 19 2011, 12:50 AM:name=Fluid Core)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fluid Core @ Dec 19 2011, 12:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1890807"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I really like this idea. There are however some issues with severing the paths of infestation. Would it just recede away from where you spray your bullets? It wouldn't be easy to make it appear right and be intuitive.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dunno it makes sense to me.
The way I see it if I shot a shotgun at a metal plate covered in moss, the moss would fall off pretty fast. It might not be the most efficient way to clean your metal plate, but it would work.
I figure you would shoot the infestation, it'd spew out some nice green goo particles, and it would recede from the area, or more accurately get destroyed where the bullets hit and have to grow back.
Obviously using your shotgun and rifle rounds to do this would be a bit unwise if you're trying to clear a room full, but you could quite reasonably do it with a small corridor enough to cut off part of the infestation.
Now if you had some proper tools, like grenades, flamethrowers, ARCs or maybe dual minigun exosuits, it'd be a lot easier. I don't really have a problem with infestation being tough to destroy with absolute bare bones starting gear.
If you REALLY need to you could let marines buy 'sonic emitters' from the armory, which could use the old power pack model and you would stick them onto walls and floors like mines, and they'd clear out infestation around them. Make it a free trade off with the switchax and you can carry say 3 per marine.
I don't really think there's much wrong with the 'shoot bullets at it to make it go away' approach, as it's quite consistent with how the rest of the game behaves. I also like the fact that it is possibly as simple as it gets in terms of useability, if the infestation is there, you can build on it, if it isn't there, you can't, if it is there all the way back to the hive, it's connected, if it isn't, it's not. The accelerating cyst mechanic is also about as simple as I can think of, I don't entirely like it but I think it should be fairly intuitive, cysts make infestation grow fast, whether you use this for defence or expansion or both is up to you.
A lot of the other systems seem a little complex to me? I don't entirely understand the vine idea I admit.
<!--quoteo(post=1890877:date=Dec 19 2011, 04:10 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Dec 19 2011, 04:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1890877"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A lot of the other systems seem a little complex to me? I don't entirely understand the vine idea I admit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would say that it's based on your idea.
<ul><li>Infestation will spread to a certain distance from the vine</li><li>A vine will not grow by automatically, but the commander can point in what direction it should go (like with cysts accelerating..)</li><li>If you want to go in different directions, you fork the vine</li><li>Forking the vine increases the power of the vine leading up to the fork</li><li>Connecting one vine to another will increase the power of the vine after the fork</li><li>Connecting a hive will increase the power of all vines connected</li></ul>
Comments
I especially like the idea of the alien upgrade structures getting buffed by cysts, although visually that is tricky because it doesn't look like a cyst should heal you, or "shade" you. It's possible that alien upgrade structures could scale their effects by the # of nearby cysts (ie, they heal more or faster or at longer range), but that's not a simple change either.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Light particle effects or "auras" around a buffed cyst could identify different links. Otherwise something like... a "crag cyst" gets little plates on its sides, a "shade cyst" grows little tendrils, etc. There could also be a visual cue along the "tendril" linking the two so it's clear that the cyst is partnered with something.
As long as the aliens (and marines?) get a visual cue that they can easily recognize what's going on, that's enough.
By the way, it might be nice for alien flashlight to literally highlight cysts linked to structures as well as the tendrils between them. That way the game looks nice but you get clear instant information when you change view modes.
Wilson, i believe you are onto something here..
Aliens use infestation spread as a form of resource collecting, with only X amount allowed per area distance (sort of like how max amount of items in room work) so it forces you to PUSH your way through and control a map and Extractors being just for marines with already placed nodes throughout the map as currently implemented (meanwhile allow marines to utilize tech points toward their tech somehow [not a comm chair obviously] and bam both sides of equal abilities to gain both tech and resources but in different ways related to map control!!)
<b><u>this would completely solve turtling, imo,</u></b> especially if you have a finite amount of resources allowed on both sides (enough to allow an hour long match or whatever time) Marines run out of mining material and aliens organic lifetime expires without new ground to cover by withering away
<i>But</i>, there should be something to make marines hesitant to just walk over infestation — say, a chance of tripping (especially when going backwards) with a 5-10pt HP penalty. The tripping thing should make meeting a fade on infestation significantly more scary than on open ground.
Edit: should probably also be something to stop resource-loaded aliens just plopping infestation all over the marine base — make it grow slowly from the edges, say.
This.
Oh my god this.
Imagine entering data core only to find it looking like a spiderweb of vines.
Vines in which you would have to cut through to get entrance.
<a href="http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~amitp/game-programming/polygon-map-generation/" target="_blank">http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~amitp...map-generation/</a>
I wonder if some of these ideas could be implemented into the prototype tool?
<i>But</i>, there should be something to make marines hesitant to just walk over infestation — say, a chance of tripping (especially when going backwards) with a 5-10pt HP penalty. The tripping thing should make meeting a fade on infestation significantly more scary than on open ground.
Edit: should probably also be something to stop resource-loaded aliens just plopping infestation all over the marine base — make it grow slowly from the edges, say.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For me, it's all about risk vs reward. Cutting off a major trunk-line that starves out three forward bases is a <b>massive</b> reward. It needs to carry an appropriate level of risk, and one way to encourage that is to make severing a major trunk take longer than taking out an isolated cyst. It gives more time for alien players to respond, and thus greatly increases the level of risk involved.
Instead of connected polygons use randomly generated objects (e.g. more than 20 infested models) which makes everything easier. Not a texture but low polygon textured objects. It is something like putting different models of Cysts everywhere within limits. But you need generated animations for each of those objects.
I know that you imagine this at the first but you want to make soemthing complex, But that is simple and it is usefull, high performance and simple for us.
2. The more complex one is store infestation lines only as objects in server and on thtestse client side NS2 engine may generate those infestations according to line positions and surfaces. It is something like webbing. This coding may be hard but probably your infestation is same or close to this. Thid means
high load for clients.
3. Less and less polygons, low textures please ! Consider this whatever you do. I would like to recommend you to do FPS tests for those models.
It would really make the aliens play a lot differently from the marines if all their upgrades were tied into energy which was dependent on infestation spread, while their lifeforms would still require Res to evolve.
I also thought it would always be cool if you had different types of structures that you could place on the res nodes which would do different things. Like the upgrade structures had to be built on the res nodes, making them more vulnerable and forcing expansion.
Just throwing ideas out there.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wilson, Techercizer and ironhorse, check out this idea I had the other day, it pretty much expands on what you suggest here.
Infestation = resources (No team res)
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=115678" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=115678</a>
I agree that infestation shouldn't massively <i>increase</i> the poly-count of a given area... But that's not the same thing as saying the area should be low-poly to begin with.
Now, it might be that Charlies' idea about infestation hasn't jelled yet, so he's poking around the edges to see if he can get a handle on it.
The current cyst-based infestation is just a placeholder, that's a given. Unfortunately, exactly what it is holding a place _for_ isn't clear.
However, we can always analyze the current system and see what its strength and weaknesses are
- pros (compared to the pre-cyst infestation system)
* solved the problem with vulnerable-to-FT only infestation by adding easy-to-kill cysts
* limits infestation to follow the map constraints
* gorge-art!
* a lot less CPU intensive
- cons
* cysts are so easy to kill, the aliens are always vulnerable to single marines going around killing cysts. Basically, instead of a infestation being a good thing to aliens, its now a vulnerability because any cyst is just two shotgun blasts (0.9 seconds) away from being dead.
* FT lost one of its roles
* infestation is now so easy to kill, marines are just yawning at it. It does not give a sense of threat.
* dropping a cyst and having an infestation growing out of it does not give an organic feel to infestation. It just feels artificial.
* with enough energy, an alien commander can drop a line of cysts straight across the map in about 10 seconds. That's not an infestation - that's carpet bombing.
* Once a cyst has generated an infestation and that infestation has reached its fully-grown size, the infestation is static and feels dead (though the bubblies does help with this).
(Feel free to come up with more pros/cons)
Now, the above cons could possibly be solved, but there are several possible solutions and in order to choose the right one, you need to know what the purpose of infestation is. Is it to be mostly decorative, with a small amount of game-tweak effects like now? Or is infestation supposed to be a core game mechanic, with the game being a race between marines teching up and fighting off the inexorably growing infestation, with games ending with infestation waves lapping up towards the marine base, or marines flying or fighting their way through heavy infestation to kill an alien hive?
(In case its not obvious; yea, I kinda like the latter).
I rather discuss this aspect of infestation rather than discussing mechanism to place cysts.
are also walls and corners needs to be considered.
<img src="http://www.yyoru.com/dl/Infestations_by_yimmasabi/Infestations_by_yimmasabi1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Next step may be as shown.
<img src="http://www.yyoru.com/dl/Infestations_by_yimmasabi/Infestations_by_yimmasabi2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
You can totally download and compile this file by rad studio c++ builder xe;
<a href="http://www.yyoru.com/dl/Infestations_by_yimmasabi.rar" target="_blank">Download Example with Sources</a>
Maybe if there was more reward for using extra cysts? Such as that resource for creep cover idea, or the cyst enhancing structures idea. Another idea might be to add tactical advantages, like if you have denser cysts, tall grass sprouts from the creep and provides skulks some ground cover. At least hive rooms should be covered... maybe the max # of eggs depends on creep coverage of hive room? You would have to choose aggressive expansion and resources vs. respawn rate for your army.
Another approach is to change the costs involved with placing cysts. Maybe the energy cost of placing a cyst could depend on it's position. Imagine a branching line that passes through the center of all major rooms and hallways on the map. Call it the "world line". If you draw the shortest line between a cyst and the world line, call that point on the world line the "cyst point" on the world line. The cost of placing a new cyst could depend on the distance to the next closest cyst point of an already existing cyst.
Cysts that go straight for the next rooms and nodes would be more expensive than ones that just reinforce held areas, making those extra cysts easier to justify.
I might be wrong, of course...
Army anaolgy ... *always* take your risks *early*
This would also encourage more alien teamplay around protecting the DI expansion. Alien players would see these 'pheromone waypoints' signaling the khaams expansion plans. A few marines could hamper the expansion pretty easily if there are no aliens to confront them. This gives the DI network weakness at the edges and during expansion while maintaining resiliency at the core and making older growth tougher to kill.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I definitely like this idea in some form. I also really like the ideas where there is <i>purpose and benefit</i> to the infestation.
BTW before I start: I think you guys at UkW are doing an amazing job. The following is primarily a memorandum for you. That said:
I don't think you guys at UkW have made your intentions clear. Is your intention to have realism as your priority or gameplay? You can't have both as your priority. IMO it would be helpful to know.
If the priority is realism, I think the quoted post above starts in on a good idea.
Just think about it. If you were an alien super-organism bent on conquest that grows very quickly in an intended direction, do you think you would have things like cysts as a single-point-of-failure weakness in that all the surrounding organism material would die? No you wouldn't, at least not for very long. Isn't that the point of infestation: to have a seamless "full-mesh" web of interconnected organism that is difficult to kill? However, it makes sense for cysts to exist if there is a benefit to the organism with a certain "calculated" drawback, but not the death of ALL of the surrounding infestation (when mature). I guess one has to state the purpose of the cyst in terms of the organism for there to be a logical reason for it to be there.
That said, I will create a reason for you (perhaps there is one somewhere else that I haven't seen): one type (the default type?) of cyst acts as a nutrient repository for the newly-growing infestation. When the infestation has had time to grow enough and connect itself robustly to the rest of the infestation it can then survive on it's own without the need of the cyst. I think that under normal circumstances, <i>all</i> mature infestation should grow outwardly at all times. Just like a plant. Perhaps there are times when it does not grow outwardly e.g. for a particular amount of time after being damaged.
I can imagine how this looks; very similar to the quoted post above. A vine (nutrient conduit; literally a pipe for fluid) grows out quickly in one "organic" direction. It then relatively quickly forms a cyst. After the cyst is formed, infestation rapidly is able to grow out from it in all directions. Speed of direction may be determined relative to gravity and perhaps the "shininess" of the surface (a rough surface is perhaps easier for the infestation to grow on). After the infestation matures, the usefulness of the cyst may expire or the cyst may turn into something that can disburse healing or spores or defense etc, or maybe it remains just as it is.
Perhaps if a vine/conduit/pipe that is growing out from a cyst/hive takes damage, it does something like what you would expect to see if you cut off a plant stem: it continues to grow, but out the side of the stem and then forward. Perhaps it takes some time to heal and continue growing.
There could be a purpose for other cysts: healing, defense, spores etc.
After the infestation matures, there could be good reason to have the nutrient-conduit cysts just harden over or perhaps continue to be a nutrient conduit for added localized super growth. It also could be emergency "health" for local infestation. Basically like armor for infestation. Or perhaps temporary "health" for it if it somehow got wholesale cut off from a hive.
As far as the localized super-growth is concerned: we'll assume that infestation that is mature will grow on its own indefinitely and to an unlimited lateral distance; and mature infestation is defined as infestation that <i>well-connected</i> with hive infestation e.g. not just a little strip of local infestation connected with the hive infestation, but instead a good meaty chunk; and infestation that is not mature will not grow without a cyst; and infestation that is mature and has a cyst has localized (relative to the cyst) "super-growth" capability; let's also assume there is a hive and two nutrient-conduit cysts both with mature infestation: (cyst a) and (cyst b):
(hive)-----(cyst a)-----(cyst b)
However for the sake of clarity, let's start with this situation:
(hive)-----(cyst a)
We'll also assume that (cyst a) has infestation that is mature. We can then assume that the conduit between the (hive) and (cyst a) is of a certain size for it to have "standard" 1x localized super-growth.
Now refer to the initial scenario of two cysts which includes the addition of (cyst b); again, both with fully mature infestation. We'll assume "standard" 1x localized super growth for <i>both</i> cysts. If we assume this, logic follows that (cyst a)'s conduit to the hive will have to grow to twice the volume (2x). A graphical change should thus ensue. This would mean that (cyst a) is keeping 1x of the nutrient flow and passing 1x of it to (cyst b). It also means that the (cyst b) conduit is at least 1x volume.
However, if we are to assume that both cysts will not necessarily have "standard" 1x super-growth and perhaps the <i>only</i> "standard" 1x super growth that's occurring is (cyst b), then (cyst b) would be passed all of the nutrients. <b>This could be a really interesting networking/piping mechanic</b> for the alien commander to set: each cyst being either a pass-through or "cut off" for the nutrients. If it's a "cut off" it would horde the nutrients and have localized super-growth. If not, it would simply pass them through. Perhaps if you allow upgrades to the cysts (and perhaps thusly cyst conduits) e.g. 1x, 2x, 3x, localized super growth would increase by 1x, 2x, 3x and then perhaps you could also granularly pass 1x, 2x, or 3x of the nutrient flow to a particular connected cyst, depending upon how much nutrient flow is available. Of course, the cyst-to-cyst connection may need to be upgraded to support the appropriate flow rate.
You could arbitrarily "cap" the infestation super-growth to 1x and just have the capability of passing super-growth on to more cysts (1x, 2x, 3x) if balance is an issue. However, the former is more interesting and dynamic to me.
You could also arbitrarily define that the only localized super growth that is allowed is via the cysts furthest in the chain from the hive. This would then eliminate the alien-commander per-cyst flow/cut-off mechanic.
A recommendation would be to have default settings that the commander can then micromanage.
An important side note about infestation taking damage:
Ok let's first imagine a slimy mossy goo on the ground. How would you kill it in real life? Scraping it up with sharp metallic objects? yes. Flamethrowers? yes. Chemicals? Perhaps. Bullets, no. Bullets would make a small hole in the infestation. You'd have to shoot 20k rounds at a patch of infestation in an orderly fashion to kill it all. It would be drastically faster to scrape it off the ground.
Now, all that being said, <i>if your priority is gameplay</i> and not realism, keeping what you have now is fine. Small refinements would only be necessary e.g. adding benefits to buildings etc. I command alien a lot, and enjoy the way it is now it minus the bugs.
By the way, I think you could do some cool things with infestation colors. Hint: infestation in some places doesn't benefit from chlorophyll - at least in terms of light-to-food production. To take it one step further than aesthetics, this could even act as some sort of information source: maturity, purpose, or health of local infestation, location of local marines on infestation, or resistance to a particular damage type. I'm sure there are other possibilities.
Also, if you decide that "networking" a lot of cysts in one room would be cool, you <i>could</i> simply shrink the size of cysts to get more of them per room. I don't know if there are any practical/aesthetic limitations if this were to be done, though. The current per-area build cap would need to be increased, though.
<!--quoteo(post=1890231:date=Dec 14 2011, 04:25 AM:name=Nixxen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nixxen @ Dec 14 2011, 04:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1890231"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
This.
Oh my god this.
Imagine entering data core only to find it looking like a spiderweb of vines.
Vines in which you would have to cut through to get entrance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can envision gorges like spiders, but shooting infestation "webs" out of their mouths.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwKuFREOgmo" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwKuFREOgmo</a> or <a href="http://www.google.co.uk/search?um=1&hl=en&biw=1264&bih=702&tbm=isch&q=slime+mold+network&oq=slime+mold+network&aq=f&aqi=g-S1&gs_upl=12653l14085l0l14324l8l8l0l4l4l0l230l728l0.3.1l4l0" target="_blank">in Google</a>
It still looks kind of alien while being realistic (or real)
I am not convinced to the model where commanders build paths of infestation manually but even if so the slime mold-like growth would make it look cool.
EX if you want a forward cyct to have high hp you can't just make it stronger unless you strengthen it's support and renforce... Cool result if you connect cyst chains they all increase in hp... That chain from hive A to B is very strong...,
Oh and quick pitch for power node cyst that can be built on destroyed or unbuilt power nodes... Result atmospheric changes(lights fog and such). And interference for marien comm in those rooms(comm can't see anything in alien hive unless he scans or marine kills powe cyst, if rine wants a med pack comm is dropping blind unless he scans or kills power cyst). Maybe cool static effect for the the comm...
Quick reason I think it should be a power cyct and not a natural part of infestation, early game first min or so dont want rine com to see or "not see" where you are... Let alien comm deside when to implement this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Going on atmospheric changes, I think the cyst would be great, if the power node is destroyed, it should have grace period (this is the time it takes until the back up power switches on, the red lights) then once this grace period is over, alien comm needs to get infestation into that room, once that's accomplished and it's near enough to cover the nodes location, he selects a builder, hovers his mouse over the empty power-node and has a transparent structure appear (indicating he can build a structure there), once he presses the right/left click to build (what ever you click to command builders to build something), a pop up box ask to confirm it, then clicking yes the builder goes to the empty node and builds a special looking cyst. This cyst has a building time and once built has a "growth period" (the time it takes for it's specialness to shine,, the idea is that it's growing infestation into the circuits to choke them from functioning properly). Once this "growth period" is over, the power switches off completely and everything turns pitch black (also some lights may flicker but majority of the time all lighting is off) and fog/mist starts to emit out of the cyst node filling the room causing visibility to be difficult even with a torch on... the only way to restore the room is to destroy the cyst-node, wait (the same time it take for the cysts "growth period" or something like 2/3 or 3/4 the time), and then once the red lights appear again, your back to normal being able to build a power-node and further secure the area. The idea of all the waiting is so it isn't easy to turn into a alien dominated area (marines depend on lighting while aliens not so much, also a great chance to really implement the torch and the desire of those epic flickering lights). Hope you like it. And I'm pretty sure it won't be OP for the aliens while making more of an atmosphere for aliens, also when the back up power is on, red lights, it's like the area becomes contested, since normally we know power-node being used, marine territory, infestation showing alien territory with red back up lights, but other spots just don't have infestation and we consider that to be contested, but having the atmosphere where no light is being emitted, everything's misty/foggy, red FLICKERING lights if anything, infestation everywhere, and alien structures, eggs, and aliens, now that seems like an alien territory..
Awesome. It's great for followers to see the fluidity of the design & prototyping process and how design versus technical constraints is tackled.
Few quick ideas:
<b>Cyst Suicide Mechanics</b>
Really like the notion of the Cyst Suicide feature. Here's how I envisage it:
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=johnnyvdoremalen@Youtube)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (johnnyvdoremalen@Youtube)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Scale the damage of a cyst blowing up to the amount of hp remaining (less hp -> less damage), this way the choice of the commander sacrificing it will be more meaningful. He wouldn't wait until 1% hp on every cyst then blow it up just in time.
If you blow it up automatically at 0% hp for a small amount of damage, some commanders might chose not to pay attention to the cysts and focus somewhere else on the map.
But yeah, I was also hoping for ingame footage :) Keep up the good work though! :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agree, but it should have a delay (click 'explode' and it explodes 2 seconds later dealing damage according to final health percentage. Maybe increase Marine slow in a radius during charge-up and add a clear sound or just visual effect (see <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NUVAZ92Wis" target="_blank">League of Legends Nunu ultimate</a>). This opens it up for some amazing depth and risk-reward mechanics:
<ul><li> Means you can't always deal instant damage, which I think would stop people from ever attacking nodes with axes</li><li> Gives Marine an opportunity to retreat, or to persist and risk getting snagged in pursuit of the deny (plus he'll get some res for the deny)</li><li> Adds depth to feature for the Commander, since you need to pay attention to your territory and predict ahead of time if you think a node will be destroyed</li><li> Commander can even set up well-timed traps to kill advancing or retreating Marines</li><li> Means Marines can juke the Alien Commander by forcing him to suicide a node in less time than it would take for the Marine to chop it down</li></ul>
I can't really see any downsides. It just sounds fun-fun-fun to me and not to difficult to implement!
<b>Dying on the creep</b>
Set of 3 or so (for variation) canned animations that trigger if a Marine dies on the creep. The infestation, detecting a target no longer physically able to fight back, expends some energy to secure a greater source of energy. It appears to lash out and out and snare the Marine, who cries and lashes out in his death throes as he is dragged down to the floor and enveloped, leaving the mound that Charlie described.
The mound is either persistent or slowly 'melts' away as the energy boost dissipates. It might even be an optimisation if you have a canned anim instead of ragdoll and you have a low-poly mound instead of a detailed corpse instance, and you have an elegant way of removing the corpse from the world over time. The downside is it's quite a lot of animation work and it may be difficult to blend from the animation playing at the time of death into the canned one (I'd imagine marines who die while jumping or running would be an issue, unless you only start the anim once the ragdoll hits the floor and is turned into a rigid body).
Could do a similar thing with Aliens, even the lashing out part. I kind of like the way the creep would act indiscriminately to individual entities to further the survival of the species.
<b>Gorge Infestation 'Snail Trail'</b>
Maybe the Gorge leaves a light infestation trail behind him as he goes.
<ul><li> On infestation this would add a small multiplier to the rate of infestation expansion</li><li> Could be used to temporarily connect locations within a short distance of eachother</li><li> Means Gorges have an interesting support/escape ability in non-infested areas by slowing Marines who are chasing allies</li><li> Means Gorges can be tracked when they venture too far into Marine territory</li></ul>
Awesome. It's great for followers to see the fluidity of the design & prototyping process and how design versus technical constraints is tackled.
Few quick ideas:
<b>Cyst Suicide Mechanics</b>
Really like the notion of the Cyst Suicide feature. Here's how I envisage it:
Agree, but it should have a delay (click 'explode' and it explodes 2 seconds later dealing damage according to final health percentage. Maybe increase Marine slow in a radius during charge-up and add a clear sound or just visual effect (see <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NUVAZ92Wis" target="_blank">League of Legends Nunu ultimate</a>).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like the idea to an extent I think a great idea for this is yes, press explode/sell building, 2-3 seconds later boom-! but, only having a visual and perhaps a sound to identify it about to explode, giving marines time to escape, also I was thinking it would rock, if attacking with an axe, you can pop it if the aliens decide to explode it, but in popping it depending on how quickly you popped it means how much damage you receive by it, so if it takes 3 seconds or 3.4-5 seconds to explode and deals 100 damage, then popping it at 1 second deals roughly 29 - 33 or 31 damage, 2 seconds 41 - 50, 3 seconds or 3. 4-5 seconds 90 - 100 damage. if caught in the blast a slight instant speed decrease then fade back to normal, with a flash bang high pitch noise from the bang. but just remember these are cysts so their not the greatest of structures or not as far as I know of. But helpful none-the-less. So to try simplify it, if the alien comm, decides to pop them, then you can decide, slash and take a little bit of damage or run to avoid allot of damage, and so depending on once it begins to try and explode you gotta think fast, hack it or run, maybe leaving it a little strong so if your working as a team if it's going to take three hacks to pop it, then three peps are great, but if it's only one person chances are by the point you hit it enough times, your hurt, severely hurt, or dead, or missing because you pretty much dropped your axe and run.
dropping a cyst and having an infestation growing out of it does not give an organic feel to infestation. It just feels artificial.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I don't see how it's much more different than the very natural act of a seed growing and spreading its roots and stem from where it was dropped.
Do you mean that the way the user interface works feels artificial?
It makes sense that a vine and a cyst could be upgraded. either by themselves or as a part of the network the alien team builds. This would allow you to spend lots or resources building a line of cysts that would fortify your area or to utilize vines to expand quickly but create blind spots that could then be exploited. to sever the network.
This creates a choice for the alien team, between fast and weak and strong and slow.
The upgrade system makes sense to be both automatic and to be manual. so Cysts and vines would slowly grow based on a set of constraints, say number of surrounding Cysts, but if the alien team wanted they could buy upgrades to areas. this would allow a new hive to have a bigger cyst faster.
This again adds a choice between expensive and strong and cheap and weak.
With a vine the upgrade system would add health and length.
For a cyst it would add to healing speed and the scale of the infestation around it.
As people pointed out it would be really cool to be able to tell how upgraded a Cyst or vine would be by looking at it. So a vine might be thicker and look more grown as it upgrades.
One of the problems with spend money on cysts is that they are pretty vulnerable. So I would propose that a high level cysts slowly sinks into the infestation surrounding it as it gets larger. this does two things, first it ties the cyst into the infestation and secondly it makes teh marines get closer to shoot at it.
basically we have a damage reduction that scales inversely to distance from the Cyst as it sinks into the Infestation around it.
This give the marines a choice to attack the infestation on the floor with a flame thrower or to enter the infestation, and thus be lit up like a Christmas tree to the alien team.
This means that heavily infested ares are offer the aliens an advantage and the marines have to make choices about where and how to attack it.
, i think
I made a processing sketch to show how it might work for a single cyst.
<a href="http://housemark.co/games/ns2-cyst/" target="_blank">Try it out</a>
TLDR: think of vines as power lines, cysts as streetlights, and the infestation like the comforting yellow glow under a streetlight in a horror film. then click the link, play with the number and bam done.
In addition infestation should begin to shrink if burnt with flamethrowers, the motivation being that the infestation sacrifices it outer parts to heal burnt parts created by flamethrowers.
In addition infestation should begin to shrink if burnt with flamethrowers, the motivation being that the infestation sacrifices it outer parts to heal burnt parts created by flamethrowers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I really like this suggestion. One of the nice things about it is that it provides a conduit for one of the hypothetical properties of DI that I've always wanted to see: The ability for infestation to grow and thicken until it completely changes how the room looks (or even after enough time, grow so thick that exosuited marines would be unable to fit through without burning some off).
I've also got to love how it brings the weed-trimming spotlight back to the flamethrower.
Do you mean that the way the user interface works feels artificial?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seeds and plants aren't all one lifeform. Each seed sustains itself.
The way infestation works is much closer to a fungus, which spreads out to fill space and has no taproot or stem or weak point, it just grows, and every single fiber serves to connect back to the whole. There are the occasonal specialised growths, usually for spreading spores, but fungus is not usually photosynthetic so picking them wouldn't kill it, it'd just stop it from doing whatever that particular growth does.
The only way to kill a fungus is to kill every bit of it, either by changing the environmental conditions so that it dies, or by finding all the bits and killing them all directly.
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From all of that, I think the NS2 infestation should just grow on its own, with the commander being able to stimulate growth in a particular direction, maybe by dropping cysts, but cysts should not be required to keep it alive.
I think it'd be much better if dropping a cyst made the infestation in the local area grow faster around the cyst, and also made it regenerate much faster when damaged. This allows cysts to serve as a means of controlling growth, and also of sustaining growth under tough conditions.
With this model, I think cysts should be droppable anywhere, and be able to keep themselves alive, but the infestation doesn't grow from them, it grows from the hive. Cysts just make it grow FASTER. So you can imagine the commander dropping a chain of cysts across the map, and maybe little spores or something come out of the hive and fly to the spots and seed a little cyst there. The cysts just sit there doing nothing, but then if you wait you see the infestation growing quickly across the map, from the hive room. I think it'd be pretty awesome as a marine, to walk into an area that maybe a gorge has hidden a bunch of cysts in, and to see this green stuff growing out of the doorway on the other side of the room and slowly spreading across the room as you walk across it. That's INFINITELY cooler than the current approach.
In order for infestation to stay alive, it needs to connect to the hive, but it does so simply by being connected, there's no vines or cyst network, if the infestation connects to the hive along its surface, it's sustained and grows freely. To cut off infestation marines have to isolate it completely from the hive, which means finding a narrow hallway and burning it clear and keeping it clear until the infestation dies off.
Things like structures are the specialised growth, killing them doesn't kill infestation, it just stops the structure from doing what it does.
If a patch of infestation is cut off from the hive, the structures on it should slow down, heal slower, active abilities don't work, the infestation recedes back to the cysts.
To kill infestation you would just damage it, with anything. Spray it with bullets, fire, grenades, whatever. Anything works, it just takes time and flamers would obviously be the best choice because they spread damage around a lot. Killing cysts would make it easier, but you still have to clear it yourself.
You could also add some new marine structures or structure functionality. A CC for example might be able to connect to the power node in a room and use it to clear infestation from the room it's in. You could also make a secondary mode for arcs which destroys infestation around them, like a constant sonic pulse or something.
I don't think that the cyst mechanic is the best or the only way to allow marines to clear infestation without flamethrowers. This system means you can site your bases to cut off infestation progress through the map, position arcs in the second mode to block it, and use your marines to attack weak points to cut off chains if they can keep alive long enough to do so.
Perhaps one feature that could be useful for any of this is the ability for an alien comm to stim pack areas of the network that are under attack or providing healing to the front line fighters. This would throttle other branches of the network and give bonus to the structures in the area while making other parts susceptible. This could also play into other peoples suggestions for using crags to push healing or umbra back into the network. Then under normal operations the high level features not available unless they are close to a main trunk or have the temporary effects of the stim pack.
The way infestation works is much closer to a fungus, which spreads out to fill space and has no taproot or stem or weak point, it just grows, and every single fiber serves to connect back to the whole. There are the occasonal specialised growths, usually for spreading spores, but fungus is not usually photosynthetic so picking them wouldn't kill it, it'd just stop it from doing whatever that particular growth does.
The only way to kill a fungus is to kill every bit of it, either by changing the environmental conditions so that it dies, or by finding all the bits and killing them all directly.
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From all of that, I think the NS2 infestation should just grow on its own, with the commander being able to stimulate growth in a particular direction, maybe by dropping cysts, but cysts should not be required to keep it alive.
I think it'd be much better if dropping a cyst made the infestation in the local area grow faster around the cyst, and also made it regenerate much faster when damaged. This allows cysts to serve as a means of controlling growth, and also of sustaining growth under tough conditions.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I really like this idea. There are however some issues with severing the paths of infestation. Would it just recede away from where you spray your bullets? It wouldn't be easy to make it appear right and be intuitive. If you instead use vines that the infestation slowly spreads out around, you would cut the vine and make the part not connected slowly die with the infestation receding from it meanwhile. The infestation should grown with time, but the spread should decrease exponentially so that you get some fast but much slowly.
The vine would start of from the hive, and then you can direct it and also branch it. Directing it just tells it where to go, while branching it would strengthen the entire vein leading up to the branch. This would make the vine much harder to kill at the hive, yet so much more rewarding.
As you work with a vine, I think you want three options: direct, branch, and connect. Starting with a one-hive system, the vine would be of power "one". That means that the outermost vines would have the health "one" while we go back towards the hive, the vine would increase in power by "one" for each branch it passes. I don't think directing should cost anything, while branching would cost (energy or res as suitable).
I draw an image, as I am told those explain more than a thousand words ;)
<img src="http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/9430/infestation.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<i>Figure: Green symbolize infestation spread</i>
The main point of connect would be to add different branches together. Doing so will make them continue as one after the connection, with their respective power added together. Connecting a vine from a new hive will connect both systems and increase the power of all vines by "one". The actual durability from a certain power would have to be balanced and probably wouldn't be linear :)
I dunno it makes sense to me.
The way I see it if I shot a shotgun at a metal plate covered in moss, the moss would fall off pretty fast. It might not be the most efficient way to clean your metal plate, but it would work.
I figure you would shoot the infestation, it'd spew out some nice green goo particles, and it would recede from the area, or more accurately get destroyed where the bullets hit and have to grow back.
Obviously using your shotgun and rifle rounds to do this would be a bit unwise if you're trying to clear a room full, but you could quite reasonably do it with a small corridor enough to cut off part of the infestation.
Now if you had some proper tools, like grenades, flamethrowers, ARCs or maybe dual minigun exosuits, it'd be a lot easier. I don't really have a problem with infestation being tough to destroy with absolute bare bones starting gear.
If you REALLY need to you could let marines buy 'sonic emitters' from the armory, which could use the old power pack model and you would stick them onto walls and floors like mines, and they'd clear out infestation around them. Make it a free trade off with the switchax and you can carry say 3 per marine.
I don't really think there's much wrong with the 'shoot bullets at it to make it go away' approach, as it's quite consistent with how the rest of the game behaves. I also like the fact that it is possibly as simple as it gets in terms of useability, if the infestation is there, you can build on it, if it isn't there, you can't, if it is there all the way back to the hive, it's connected, if it isn't, it's not. The accelerating cyst mechanic is also about as simple as I can think of, I don't entirely like it but I think it should be fairly intuitive, cysts make infestation grow fast, whether you use this for defence or expansion or both is up to you.
A lot of the other systems seem a little complex to me? I don't entirely understand the vine idea I admit.
I would say that it's based on your idea.
<ul><li>Infestation will spread to a certain distance from the vine</li><li>A vine will not grow by automatically, but the commander can point in what direction it should go (like with cysts accelerating..)</li><li>If you want to go in different directions, you fork the vine</li><li>Forking the vine increases the power of the vine leading up to the fork</li><li>Connecting one vine to another will increase the power of the vine after the fork</li><li>Connecting a hive will increase the power of all vines connected</li></ul>
I also draw a new image :)
<img src="http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/9782/infestation3.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I hope this makes it clearer. <i>Image updated</i>