Natural Selection 2 News Update - Dynamic infestation prototype + source
Flayra
Game Director, Unknown Worlds EntertainmentSan Francisco Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 3Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer
Game Director, Unknown Worlds EntertainmentSan Francisco Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 3Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer
Comments
E.g. here, with one click I get 5 new lines of DI
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/bGs6h.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Only thing I'd change would be for the infestation to have a wider spread. If the prototype test is accurate to how it will be in game then there will be a lot of bare floor areas even in quite heavily infested areas.
So two nodes next to each other will essentially strengthen the infestation area of each rather than overlapping and being negligible. The if one was to die, the infestation would shrink back to the size that one postule could support.
Additionally, I see the most common strategy for dealing with infestation is to just pop cysts and slowly push forward as it gets destroyed; if infestation becomes even more dangerous to Marines, I wonder what team in their right mind would ever wind up bothering to step onto it.
I don't really like the idea of things being connected and infestation being cut-off. It either just becomes a hassle for the alien com to continue to redrop cysts as they get destroyed or it's not worthwhile for the marines and so they just fight the infestation from front to back anyway.
I don't really like the idea of things being connected and infestation being cut-off. It either just becomes a hassle for the alien com to continue to redrop cysts as they get destroyed or it's not worthwhile for the marines and so they just fight the infestation from front to back anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I concur. I thought cysts were a placeholder that we lived with while we waited for DI to be developed. Are they planned to persevere to release?
Thicker vines should spread more infestation around them then thinner ones, and the longer you make a vine, the thinner it should become. If you have a grid of thick enough vines then the infestation path will cover the ground between them completely, while if the vines are thinner, there would be a gap in the middle of them. You could even make the infestation paths mostly cosmetic, by just allowing buildings to be placed on vines/vine intersections. This would make how you build the network matter much more. Hydras excluded ofcourse :)
I think I should start practicing Kharaa hivemind. I can see how I would enjoy being the creator :)
gorges will need to drop cysts at the cost of energy, to help quicken the spread which would only allow the class to do more then its current role.
Imagine a forward Cyst, a lowly level 1, then a bunch of Whips waltz up to root on the infestation, and TADA!: a level 2 or 3 Cyst with higher health and/or armor! Maybe the infestation even grows up walls and thickens to reflect this mechanic.
I don't really like the idea of things being connected and infestation being cut-off. It either just becomes a hassle for the alien com to continue to redrop cysts as they get destroyed or it's not worthwhile for the marines and so they just fight the infestation from front to back anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Basically this, infestation is supposed to be organic, this is not organic, this is a discrete network, and it works exactly like a discrete network, discrete networks are not organic.
The level of infestation needs to be visual as it is functional. Cysts, bone armored cysts, cysts with more luminescence with yellow spots or something, black and orange veins and growth. Maybe not all levels of infestation effect marine movement , infestation that can defend itself somehow? Aliens all have "connection" to each other and the hive
Infestation being harmless early game to dangerous later. Maybe remove requirement to have to build harvesters on infestation? Make infestation really MATTER.
* base the creep on a heat dispersion model
<img src="http://oi40.tinypic.com/1znx3t0.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
* creep distance allways the same
* nodes can only placed within current spread creep (im unsure about this, could be throwing a monkey wrench into alien expansion)
* roots growing between nodes (including hives), giving away the closest nodes to "this" one.
** creep spreads from roots as well to give incentive to place more than one at the entrance, the center and the exit of a room each.
* creep dispersion rate depending on node level
* nodes grow levels by themselfs, but can be boosted by healspray or whatever
* fully build hives are allways max node level (hometurf mentality for aliens, upping the difficulty to take out gestated hives).
* the node network scans in random intervals (30s~60s) for nodes that reached full spread and expands the borders by automaticly placing a new node within that borders.
** since only fully spread nodes are applicable, marines can hinder the growth with flamers, else they are slowly crushed by the creep if they don't take care of it or not fast enough.
* full grown nodes disconnected from the network try to reconnect for three 'border ticks' by growing a node seperately from the "expanding the network" one, but the automatic expansion trys to reconnect the closest disconnected (full grown) node.
I wish I can see one of those in game as soon as possible (B191 max 192 :) )
anyone remember? <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=113258&view=findpost&p=1844125" target="_blank">NS2Infest</a>
or multi connected cysts? <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=114099&view=findpost&p=1859627" target="_blank">ns2cysts</a>
I don't really like the idea of things being connected and infestation being cut-off. It either just becomes a hassle for the alien com to continue to redrop cysts as they get destroyed or it's not worthwhile for the marines and so they just fight the infestation from front to back anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This.
Placing cysts all the time isn't that much fun. I'd rather be building structures or leading the team as alien comm.
As a marine I'd rather have a well defined boundary between alien and marine territory, albeit one that can move back and forth. The current implementation of infestation could only work like that if it gave aliens decent buffs or damaged marine health. Nothing stops a marine running over a few patches and cutting off a whole section.
I'm not sure about the whole "build up an area" thing though. I feel like it's not really worth it to place multiple cysts close together as they die pretty fast and it's easy for a lone marine to kill several close by which in turn just costs you more energy to replace. At least with the way it works currently, it's always better to spread it out with as few cysts as possible so you can expand faster. There's not a good enough reason to build up a thick network.
I also kinda like the idea of having an initial radius in which infestation spreads out quite quickly and then a larger radius in which it spreads much more slowly. It gives the impression that it's constantly growing.
Level 1 cysts network on the ground or the wall as per normal (whatever that ends up being) but only on one plane (ie just the wall or just the floor it is placed on)
Level 2 cysts will network with cysts on the same plane but also on adjacent planes (ie it will network with other cysts on the floor and also with those on the wall beside it)
Level 3 cysts will network with cysts on the wall/floor beside it plus those on the floor/wall opposite it.
Example:
You might have three cysts in a hall - one on the floor and one on each wall. They are all level 1 so they have infestation but they won't network.
The cyst on the left wall is upgraded to level 2 so it then networks with the cyst on the floor and that strengthens the network. The cyst on the right wall is still 'isolated'. It still gives off infestation so it can still heal lerks and feed hydra's and crags but it can be disconnected pretty easily.
The cyst on the left wall is upgraded one more time to level 3 and its vines then snake across to the opposite wall - that is the right hand cyst and forms a network with that one.
Not sure if I describe that right. :)
I guess the 'processing' I saw is a great tool but it doesn't let you think in 3d so I thought I'd add this comment. :)
Keep up the good work. :)
<img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/52970084/errors.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Could you zip up your whole sketch folder instead of just the source itself?
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/files/ns2/di_prototype/DI5.jar" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/files/ns2/di_prototype/DI5.jar</a>
I really wish I had time to have a play around with this. :(
you can currently place cysts without connecting them to the existing network.
if you place a cyst near a wall, the preview-line will be shown through walls but it will not appear when the cyst is finally placed.
<a href="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/600/di5n.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/7920/di5n.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
other than that, i like the mechanics. but i have to agree that a grid of lines/vines doesn't appear very organic, this might be improved with some randomized elements though.
I like the rest of it though.
But I agree with Wilson, that cysts popping out of nowhere seems very wierd.
Maybe not draw the cyst until the vine has reached the position of the cyst.
<!--quoteo(post=1890032:date=Dec 13 2011, 02:32 AM:name=WizardHUN)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WizardHUN @ Dec 13 2011, 02:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1890032"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Figure something out about cyst vs. turrets.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Figure what out?
Turrets shoot at aliens, and alien structures?
I sense that you want to decrease the spammy feel of cysts.
A simple change to do that, is to make them cost resources instead of energy.
I will quote myself from another thread.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To <b>stop spam</b>, tie more things to <b>resources</b>, instead of <b>energy</b>.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=115515" target="_blank">Beacon, Nano-Shield, Building energy doesn't scale with resource situation</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hope the dev team will realize that energy only leads to spam, no matter what the ability is.
Resources requires map control, most energy based abilities doesn't.
Energy just require you to put down the building somewhere, often at well defended bases.
Then the spam of abilities comes when the enemy attack, umbra spam, beacon spam etc.
More harvesters/extractors -> more access to the abilities -> more likely to win the game.
Cut off their resources -> more likely to win the game.
A needed nerf to turtling and a fix for stalemates.
this rises the question of how to handle the density but it would at least cover (roughly) the entire ground.
In terms on the integration question I'm not sure if that makes it better or worse since you need canvas support to implement it.
Probably in some form, marines need a way to fight off infestation without flamethrower-tier tech.
Make bullets damage the proper infestation the same way flames do then.
So you can spray your rifle at it, blast it with your shotgun, hit it with grenades, whatever works.
Flamethrower would just be the most effective weapon by virtue of being a continuous fire area effect damage over time weapon.
I had to make some changes since Vector isn't supported and the java based mouse handler had to get pulled.
<a href="http://housemark.co/games/ns2-infest/" target="_blank">Try it here</a>
I also changed to use green since the grey can be hard to find.
p.js source is linked from there in case you want to pretend it's javascript code.
Edit: I missed the delete code for cysts the first time through, that should be fixed now
I'll have to see if there are any differences when I get home and try Charlie's version.