<!--quoteo(post=1885621:date=Nov 18 2011, 07:10 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Nov 18 2011, 07:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885621"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd actually like the flashlight to have its own atmospherics, would be good for making it feel more... attached to the marine? Good for squad coordination, and also adding more of a downside to the flashlight as aliens can trace it back to you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is how the flashlight works, but currently we only display them when you are viewing the flashlight from 3rd person.
Looks pretty sweet ! :). But I gotta say after getting used to having nearly nothing on the marine hud for so many builds, that minimap does look quite annoying now that we can see it ingame.
<!--QuoteBegin-"aeroripper"+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ("aeroripper")</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Maybe down the road some customization to that map readout will make it more useful, such as switching from map view to marine helmet cam (or of those in your squad) or something. Maybe a small camera feed from a player-placed camera stuck to a wall somewhere in the map to monitor alien movement. That kind of stuff reminds me a lot of the old Descent games cockpit screens.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That would be so awesome. Would love to stick one on a team mate so i can see what he's covering better etc.
<!--quoteo(post=1885645:date=Nov 19 2011, 12:51 AM:name=aeroripper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aeroripper @ Nov 19 2011, 12:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885645"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...to marine helmet cam (or of those in your squad) or something. Maybe a small camera feed from a player-placed camera stuck to a wall somewhere in the map to monitor alien movement...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
YES! Not sure how it could be implemented without taking up screen space... but, it would add some theme if you could see other squad members head cams. Especially ones, not in the same area of the map. This would have a level of benefit where you are receiving real-time feedback from different areas of the map.
-WildCat-Cape Town, South AfricaJoin Date: 2008-07-19Member: 64664Members, Reinforced - Shadow
I fairly certain this is the best implementation of volumetric lighting I've ever seen in a computer game. I'm really impressed.
There's only one improvement that I think could be made. That is: modify the intensity of the effect based on the angle that the player's view makes with the direction of the light. This would allow the effect to be more pronounced when you're looking straight at the light source and almost invisible when looking away from the light source.
A good example to illustrate this would be the flash light. When you turn on your own flash light, it is shining away from you and so the effect should be almost invisible. The same would be true if a team mate was standing by your side and looking in the same direction as you - his flash light beam should be almost invisible. However, if a team mate is standing a few meters away from you and points his flash light straight at you, the atmospheric effect should then be at it's most intense.
This would more accurately match real life behaviour because light is more likely to reflect off atmospheric particles at obtuse angles than at acute angles.
<!--quoteo(post=1885649:date=Nov 19 2011, 06:56 AM:name=Max)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Max @ Nov 19 2011, 06:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885649"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is how the flashlight works, but currently we only display them when you are viewing the flashlight from 3rd person.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which is probably sensible, otherwise turning it on would make everything in front of you go slightly blurry.
InsaneAnomalyJoin Date: 2002-05-13Member: 605Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts, Future Perfect Developer
<!--quoteo(post=1885693:date=Nov 19 2011, 01:58 PM:name=-WildCat-)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (-WildCat- @ Nov 19 2011, 01:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885693"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I fairly certain this is the best implementation of volumetric lighting I've ever seen in a computer game. I'm really impressed.
There's only one improvement that I think could be made. That is: modify the intensity of the effect based on the angle that the player's view makes with the direction of the light. This would allow the effect to be more pronounced when you're looking straight at the light source and almost invisible when looking away from the light source.
A good example to illustrate this would be the flash light. When you turn on your own flash light, it is shining away from you and so the effect should be almost invisible. The same would be true if a team mate was standing by your side and looking in the same direction as you - his flash light beam should be almost invisible. However, if a team mate is standing a few meters away from you and points his flash light straight at you, the atmospheric effect should then be at it's most intense.
This would more accurately match real life behaviour because light is more likely to reflect off atmospheric particles at obtuse angles than at acute angles.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This isn't quite how it works in real life since all the individual pieces of particulate matter floating about will all be sitting at different angles. So it doesn't matter if the light is shining away from you, it will still bounce of some of those particles and back in your direction.
Uploaded with <a href="http://imageshack.us" target="_blank">ImageShack.us</a>
This is a relatively good example since the torch is pointed away from the camera but the beam is still clearly visible.
You are right to say that by looking directly into the flashlight it would be brighter, but that would be covered by a combination of HDR rendering and lens flare effects (nothing too extreme I promise).
Like the top of the new hud! pretty cool looking. It looks glowy! I had trouble trying to get that effect can't wait to see how you did it! Some changes though I personally would make are these.
Placement: 1.Use the top part of the GUI to push commander orders to marines (where the resource counter is placed now) 2. Move the Resources to the Health bar area. 3. Remove game time from the GUI, put it on the scoreboard instead. Or place it in minimap area. 4. Move the health bars to the right side of the screen.
Graphics: I think the theme of the GUI is really set by the top middle of the minimap. It looks projected and glowy, simple, clean and dosn't take focus away from the game itself. I think it would look good if the rest of the interface followed suit.
+Minimap: -Make the border heck of a lot thinner. -Give it projected from the side of the screen look behind and around it.
+Health bars: -Can't tell how they look from the video, look a little big -They look better, little clunky, borders on them might be bad. -Soft glowing bars if possible i think would fit the theme best. -Have it look like its being projected from the bottom of the visor
<!--quoteo(post=1885705:date=Nov 19 2011, 03:29 PM:name=xVisions)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xVisions @ Nov 19 2011, 03:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885705"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Some changes though I personally would make are these.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thanks for the feedback. However, the HUD shown in the video is not a good example, as it is broken, half finished, and many of the elements have been moved and changed since this video (health and armor bars are now on the right side of the screen and are much smaller, for example). <!--quoteo(post=1885645:date=Nov 19 2011, 05:51 AM:name=aeroripper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aeroripper @ Nov 19 2011, 05:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885645"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I did like the 3D hud you guys were originally doing compared against the current flat iteration.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> We are still going to do that effect. There were some complications doing the HUD in 3D, and since the only effect that we were really using it for was to get that tilted look, we decided to keep the HUD as 2d UI and just program the tilt effect in. That may not make it for the next patch, but it will be implemented soon after. <!--quoteo(post=1885661:date=Nov 19 2011, 09:25 AM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Nov 19 2011, 09:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885661"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Did the aliens get a new hud too?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The only thing that has been changed with the alien HUD so far is the addition of the Resource numbers to the top. Many of the marine HUd elements, such as the minimap, are not going to be done for the aliens, as they don't have as much use for them.
ZeikkoJoin Date: 2007-12-16Member: 63179Members, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester
edited November 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1885739:date=Nov 19 2011, 09:38 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Nov 19 2011, 09:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885739"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Many of the marine HUd elements, such as the minimap, are not going to be done for the aliens, as they don't have as much use for them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> WHAT!? I would argue that the minimap is more important to the aliens than marines. Marines are slow and easy to see. You can easily see and predict where your teammates are. Skulks on the other hand are small can hide in the ceilings etc. You usually have no idea where your teammates are even if they're in the same room with you. Using the hivesight is usually too slow to find out the position of your teammates while positioning yourself at the same time. Also seeing how many opponents are there around the corner where your teammates are having a combat is very useful while advancing towards the spot. There are also numerous reasons why aliens need the minimap to keep up with the overall strategy, but i guess you're not removing the big minimap bound to c key, just not having the small one in the corner as aliens. Anyhow, i would like to see the minimap or have better hivesight implementation as alien.
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
edited November 2011
Aliens don't really need the minimap as the hivesight could indicate most things on the battlefield. <img src="http://i.imgur.com/EV4qQ.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> <img src="http://i.imgur.com/kFPNW.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> ( parasited structures)
-WildCat-Cape Town, South AfricaJoin Date: 2008-07-19Member: 64664Members, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1885700:date=Nov 19 2011, 04:38 PM:name=Insane)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Insane @ Nov 19 2011, 04:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885700"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This isn't quite how it works in real life since all the individual pieces of particulate matter floating about will all be sitting at different angles. So it doesn't matter if the light is shining away from you, it will still bounce of some of those particles and back in your direction.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Your logic is sound but you haven't taken into account that light more readily reflects off surfaces when the angle of incidence is greater. Reflected light appears brighter when it "glances" off surfaces that are nearly parallel to the beam of light.
As such, particulate matter appears to be illuminated more brightly when it is floating between the viewer and the light source. (And that is not because of the glare from the light source itself.)
<!--quoteo(post=1885739:date=Nov 19 2011, 10:38 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Nov 19 2011, 10:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885739"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The only thing that has been changed with the alien HUD so far is the addition of the Resource numbers to the top. Many of the marine HUd elements, such as the minimap, are not going to be done for the aliens, as they don't have as much use for them.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> agreed as aliens have hive sight while marines dont, marines are humans that means that they need technology to help them out whilst aliens dont need technology so aliens having a mini map is kinda...
I personally do not think the effect should be toned down too much. It is awesome, the thicknesss of it adds soooo much to the visual atmosphere of the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1885765:date=Nov 19 2011, 06:01 PM:name=-WildCat-)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (-WildCat- @ Nov 19 2011, 06:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885765"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Your logic is sound but you haven't taken into account that light more readily reflects off surfaces when the angle of incidence is greater. Reflected light appears brighter when it "glances" off surfaces that are nearly parallel to the beam of light.
As such, particulate matter appears to be illuminated more brightly when it is floating between the viewer and the light source. (And that is not because of the glare from the light source itself.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
(Large particle) Mie scattering is mostly in the forwards direction; you see it most vividly when you are looking directly at the light source but the light source is just obscured by something.
(Tiny particle) Rayleigh scattering is mostly in the forwards AND backwards directions and it is strongly dependent on colour(proportional to 1/(wavelength^4)).
If possible I think the effect should be toned up near infestation and toned down much everywhere else; as if the infestation was giving off an invisible cloud of spores or something.
<!--quoteo(post=1885700:date=Nov 19 2011, 09:38 AM:name=Insane)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Insane @ Nov 19 2011, 09:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885700"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This isn't quite how it works in real life since all the individual pieces of particulate matter floating about will all be sitting at different angles. So it doesn't matter if the light is shining away from you, it will still bounce of some of those particles and back in your direction.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mie scattering is a wave, not particle phenomenon. For large particles(e.g. dust) it is much stronger in the forward direction(small angles of deflection).
The competing effect is that having a bright light shining into your face makes it difficult to notice; if a conveniently placed object(like a tree trunk, or something) blocks the light source you get the familiar effect of "god rays".
InsaneAnomalyJoin Date: 2002-05-13Member: 605Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts, Future Perfect Developer
Well fair enough then! I take that back, I honestly hadn't realised that Rayleigh scattering didn't also account for the larger particles as well. It's always nice to learn something new. Although I do still stand by the assertion that your team-mates torch beam should still be visible when you are standing next to him, which I think the picture I posted demonstrates well enough.
I must re-post again because I want a dev to comment but is there any way this could be an effect with a slider to control how thick it is? I really love the atmospherics and want them to remain exaggerated. Similar to the toggle-able fxaa A response would be appreciated. Thanks
<!--quoteo(post=1885834:date=Nov 20 2011, 08:06 AM:name=Dictator93)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dictator93 @ Nov 20 2011, 08:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885834"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I must re-post again because I want a dev to comment but is there any way this could be an effect with a slider to control how thick it is? I really love the atmospherics and want them to remain exaggerated. Similar to the toggle-able fxaa A response would be appreciated. Thanks<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The thickness I believe will be adjustable by the mapper, so they can make the maps as 'atmospheric' as they want. FXAA is off by default. You can turn it on in console or in your options.xml file.
Comments
This is how the flashlight works, but currently we only display them when you are viewing the flashlight from 3rd person.
<!--QuoteBegin-"aeroripper"+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ("aeroripper")</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Maybe down the road some customization to that map readout will make it more useful, such as switching from map view to marine helmet cam (or of those in your squad) or something. Maybe a small camera feed from a player-placed camera stuck to a wall somewhere in the map to monitor alien movement. That kind of stuff reminds me a lot of the old Descent games cockpit screens.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That would be so awesome. Would love to stick one on a team mate so i can see what he's covering better etc.
Did the aliens get a new hud too?
YES! Not sure how it could be implemented without taking up screen space... but, it would add some theme if you could see other squad members head cams. Especially ones, not in the same area of the map. This would have a level of benefit where you are receiving real-time feedback from different areas of the map.
There's only one improvement that I think could be made. That is: modify the intensity of the effect based on the angle that the player's view makes with the direction of the light. This would allow the effect to be more pronounced when you're looking straight at the light source and almost invisible when looking away from the light source.
A good example to illustrate this would be the flash light. When you turn on your own flash light, it is shining away from you and so the effect should be almost invisible. The same would be true if a team mate was standing by your side and looking in the same direction as you - his flash light beam should be almost invisible. However, if a team mate is standing a few meters away from you and points his flash light straight at you, the atmospheric effect should then be at it's most intense.
This would more accurately match real life behaviour because light is more likely to reflect off atmospheric particles at obtuse angles than at acute angles.
Which is probably sensible, otherwise turning it on would make everything in front of you go slightly blurry.
There's only one improvement that I think could be made. That is: modify the intensity of the effect based on the angle that the player's view makes with the direction of the light. This would allow the effect to be more pronounced when you're looking straight at the light source and almost invisible when looking away from the light source.
A good example to illustrate this would be the flash light. When you turn on your own flash light, it is shining away from you and so the effect should be almost invisible. The same would be true if a team mate was standing by your side and looking in the same direction as you - his flash light beam should be almost invisible. However, if a team mate is standing a few meters away from you and points his flash light straight at you, the atmospheric effect should then be at it's most intense.
This would more accurately match real life behaviour because light is more likely to reflect off atmospheric particles at obtuse angles than at acute angles.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This isn't quite how it works in real life since all the individual pieces of particulate matter floating about will all be sitting at different angles. So it doesn't matter if the light is shining away from you, it will still bounce of some of those particles and back in your direction.
<a href="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/195/windowslivewriterhowish.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/1705/windowslivewriterhowish.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
Uploaded with <a href="http://imageshack.us" target="_blank">ImageShack.us</a>
This is a relatively good example since the torch is pointed away from the camera but the beam is still clearly visible.
You are right to say that by looking directly into the flashlight it would be brighter, but that would be covered by a combination of HDR rendering and lens flare effects (nothing too extreme I promise).
Placement:
1.Use the top part of the GUI to push commander orders to marines (where the resource counter is placed now)
2. Move the Resources to the Health bar area.
3. Remove game time from the GUI, put it on the scoreboard instead. Or place it in minimap area.
4. Move the health bars to the right side of the screen.
Graphics: I think the theme of the GUI is really set by the top middle of the minimap. It looks projected and glowy, simple, clean and dosn't take focus away from the game itself. I think it would look good if the rest of the interface followed suit.
+Minimap:
-Make the border heck of a lot thinner.
-Give it projected from the side of the screen look behind and around it.
+Health bars:
-Can't tell how they look from the video, look a little big
-They look better, little clunky, borders on them might be bad.
-Soft glowing bars if possible i think would fit the theme best.
-Have it look like its being projected from the bottom of the visor
Thanks for the feedback. However, the HUD shown in the video is not a good example, as it is broken, half finished, and many of the elements have been moved and changed since this video (health and armor bars are now on the right side of the screen and are much smaller, for example).
<!--quoteo(post=1885645:date=Nov 19 2011, 05:51 AM:name=aeroripper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aeroripper @ Nov 19 2011, 05:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885645"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I did like the 3D hud you guys were originally doing compared against the current flat iteration.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We are still going to do that effect. There were some complications doing the HUD in 3D, and since the only effect that we were really using it for was to get that tilted look, we decided to keep the HUD as 2d UI and just program the tilt effect in. That may not make it for the next patch, but it will be implemented soon after.
<!--quoteo(post=1885661:date=Nov 19 2011, 09:25 AM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Nov 19 2011, 09:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885661"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Did the aliens get a new hud too?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The only thing that has been changed with the alien HUD so far is the addition of the Resource numbers to the top. Many of the marine HUd elements, such as the minimap, are not going to be done for the aliens, as they don't have as much use for them.
--Cory
WHAT!?
I would argue that the minimap is more important to the aliens than marines. Marines are slow and easy to see. You can easily see and predict where your teammates are. Skulks on the other hand are small can hide in the ceilings etc. You usually have no idea where your teammates are even if they're in the same room with you. Using the hivesight is usually too slow to find out the position of your teammates while positioning yourself at the same time.
Also seeing how many opponents are there around the corner where your teammates are having a combat is very useful while advancing towards the spot.
There are also numerous reasons why aliens need the minimap to keep up with the overall strategy, but i guess you're not removing the big minimap bound to c key, just not having the small one in the corner as aliens.
Anyhow, i would like to see the minimap or have better hivesight implementation as alien.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/EV4qQ.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/kFPNW.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> ( parasited structures)
But all of these aren't in ns2 atm.
Your logic is sound but you haven't taken into account that light more readily reflects off surfaces when the angle of incidence is greater. Reflected light appears brighter when it "glances" off surfaces that are nearly parallel to the beam of light.
As such, particulate matter appears to be illuminated more brightly when it is floating between the viewer and the light source. (And that is not because of the glare from the light source itself.)
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
agreed as aliens have hive sight while marines dont, marines are humans that means that they need technology to help them out whilst aliens dont need technology so aliens having a mini map is kinda...
As such, particulate matter appears to be illuminated more brightly when it is floating between the viewer and the light source. (And that is not because of the glare from the light source itself.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
(Large particle) Mie scattering is mostly in the forwards direction; you see it most vividly when you are looking directly at the light source but the light source is just obscured by something.
(Tiny particle) Rayleigh scattering is mostly in the forwards AND backwards directions and it is strongly dependent on colour(proportional to 1/(wavelength^4)).
Mie scattering is a wave, not particle phenomenon. For large particles(e.g. dust) it is much stronger in the forward direction(small angles of deflection).
The competing effect is that having a bright light shining into your face makes it difficult to notice; if a conveniently placed object(like a tree trunk, or something) blocks the light source you get the familiar effect of "god rays".
A response would be appreciated. Thanks
A response would be appreciated. Thanks<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The thickness I believe will be adjustable by the mapper, so they can make the maps as 'atmospheric' as they want. FXAA is off by default. You can turn it on in console or in your options.xml file.