ZeikkoJoin Date: 2007-12-16Member: 63179Members, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester
<!--quoteo(post=1884416:date=Nov 9 2011, 05:01 PM:name=Moose)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Moose @ Nov 9 2011, 05:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1884416"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Has random spawning been scraped or something? was just looking at the progress tracker page and noticed its gone :(. It was (Accepted) too....
Hopefully this is a mistake.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The progress tracker shows only the current sprint of the project. It is not showing the accepted items of the last week's sprint. UWE has a sprint length of 1 week, even though they don't release weekly builds anymore. Thus you are not able to see the accepted tasks of the previous weeks on the progress tracker.
But as far as i remember the task was just "test the random spawn" or something like this. Not to actually implement it i think.
i gave this a go last night. Not sure I agree with what I put in now but hey.
The logic was to have al the stuff you might glance at in the bottom half, and the informational thing you might want to know but not if a skulk is at your ankles at the top.
This means the bullets left, hp, armor etc are all together for quick checks and then maps and notifications are up top.
Thoughts: Basically, it makes sense that the jp bar would go over with health and armor
I pulled out the boxes around ui elements, I figured that the message queue could be unified for all messages from drops and deaths to notifications etc
Needed voice comm icon added that and some current speakers, I MAY have gone over board on that front.
Also it needs text chat as well so I added that.
The map I removed. I experimented with cutting out the background but it basically sucked because in the screen shot there is nothing in the back ground so it still didn't look transparent.
Overall, I think the scanning line effect used on the health bars and commander name is preferable to the box effect. It could be personal opinion here as well.
<!--quoteo(post=1884377:date=Nov 9 2011, 07:51 AM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Nov 9 2011, 07:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1884377"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Changes in layout that i think would make it better.
<a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12784365/marineH2.jpg" target="_blank">http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12784365/marineH2.jpg</a> (Only the stuff that you see most of the time, rest in text form - to know if it still feels good if not every ui element is there)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hey Koruyo, those are some good changes. We like the minimap being on the left and death messages being on the right, and we really like the current location being above the minimap. We're going to stick with our Commander name and Res locations, however, being at the top middle for now, and keep the game timer at the lower left corner.
Guess thats kinda the idea after uwe said they will only change the minimap and deathmsgs after my suggestion - looks good to me.
PS: i love the recent commander activity - think thats very usefull! So commanders dont need to communicate every little crap all the time, and can focus on more important things...
(maybe only show new buildings and starting researches, and if buildings are beeing attacked in a red box... medpacks ammo etc would be a bit much info that would spam this boxes)
Yay Welders, also yay no more only magical nanite sparks while building.
From what I can understand about the many states of doors...
Door (invulnerable) -> Opened Door -> Closed Door -> Locked Door (destructible and +use to open) -> Welded Door (Onos/Infest destructible and cannot be opened) -> Broken Door (repairable?)
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
Will the welder make a weapon slot 4? Like tool slot or something.
If so, then you could work it like ns1 where pulling it out shows the armor rings of players and health rings of structures without having to look directly at them to read their %.
Don't forget the 4/hp hit. Then people can get their epic welder kills.
<!--quoteo(post=1884504:date=Nov 9 2011, 07:14 PM:name=IeptBarakat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ Nov 9 2011, 07:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1884504"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Don't forget the 4/hp hit. Then people can get their epic welder kills.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It would be nice if the mapper has the option to define the health for the doors.
So the Welder basicly got 3 main purposes: Decreasing build time for structures, reinforcing doors, reparing players/structures fast, (melee against aliens)
The Welder should be kinda the Gorge of marine weaponry with it's own very special talent. While I dunno which weapon slot it will take I think it should replace at least a whole slot. It should give the carrying player much fun if he even can't spray and pray with ordinary weaponry and make the ###### com assistent to look after the other players and structures. That should be the mac.
If I'm imagining buying a Welder I need not only the satisfying purpose for being the wannabe Engineer, I want to make a personal difference with it while I'm still a threat to the Aliens, but in a special way. Similiar to the extra Rambo Fashion you got when you're carrying a Flamer the Welder should differate this feeling to an even more specific way that makes you proud when you land a bigtime Job with only a Tool.
Besides healing it's a Tool to mess with the Entities in the Level itself, so besides just boringly welding doors it should have a gimmick that makes it worthwile.
Has someone brought up the idea for a wielder attachment for the rifle? I think that would bring up some interesting gameplay. Could be a bit overpowered though.
as i was reading about the new welder news, I came across;
" Allow marines to repair power nodes without a welder (150/sec), but repair them faster with one (300/sec)."
what the hell is the welder for then? repairing, welding and repairing armor must be only done through welder, a tool which was built for this task alone.
aside from that, finally good news welder is in the works. pushing E on each other and power nodes has been so silly. Please don't make this game too easy to play.
but I wouldn't mind areas where you are suppose to wield on a door. For example, instead of allowing welder when the user is facing the middle of the door only make it so you have to weld the the outside of the door if you understand what I mean.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->so we’re going to cut multiple Commanders, at least until v1.0. I don’t think many of you are going to miss it...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The utility tool should have a slow arcing pulse of electricity every ~.6 sec. This will be used to repair nodes and regular light armor. When the welder is researched, increase the rate of the arcing pulse for these tasks while giving a faster repair rate. The added welder function can be used on on doors and maybe arcs/exos for increased repair speed. So the research cost to the team for 'welder tech' will increase the overall effectiveness of the utility tool function for everyone, but only players that buy a welder addon will be capable of welding doors (arcs/exos?).
Of course MACs can always be used to weld doors/arcs/exos as well as repairing nodes and regular armor. Maybe they could have a moderate boost when welder tech has been researched too. Not so sure about this after re-reading the design doc since devs want to differentiate welder/marine tech tool from MACs.
As for the door welding design notes, it seems to make sense pretty well. I'm not sure that about having normal damage affect the doors. It's already been stated that chewing on nodes is one of the less interesting tasks in NS, so making a similar activity in chewing on doors seems odd. Also, it seems to make busting a door less dramatic. Locked doors should only remain sealed if powered up. Once the power goes out, the doors should get stuck opened unless they have been welded. This would allow for door control to change hands when territory changes until Onos come along to smash down any welded/locked doors for good. When that time comes, the marines have to be prepared.
<!--quoteo(post=1884990:date=Nov 15 2011, 05:01 AM:name=culprit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (culprit @ Nov 15 2011, 05:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1884990"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Once the power goes out, the doors should get stuck opened unless they have been welded. This would allow for door control to change hands when territory changes until Onos come along to smash down any welded/locked doors for good. When that time comes, the marines have to be prepared.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree <!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->+1<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Edit: Also, if a door is locked then maybe biting it should slowly open it creating enough space for a skulk and only a skulk to walk through (Make lerk but I don't know how big that is). This wouldn't prevent what is currently happening now but it will make it less effective (Locked doors giving marines easy territory).
^ That sounds good, some sparks from the door getting jammed with barely enough space for small lifeforms to squeeze through (Skulk, Gorge, Lerk). Fade can take to a nearby vent in that case.
Missing design log updates here, but yay Onos and Jetpack next patch :)
<!--quoteo(post=1884612:date=Nov 11 2011, 08:02 AM:name=saltybp53)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (saltybp53 @ Nov 11 2011, 08:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1884612"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Has someone brought up the idea for a wielder attachment for the rifle? I think that would bring up some interesting gameplay. Could be a bit overpowered though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> A while ago, yeah. I think it's a decent idea. Only light marines could wield it, since heavies can't use rifles (afaik). It still allows a player to defend himself, but sacrifices the grenade launcher attachment (and any other upgrades) as well as shotguns and flamethrowers. It also, naturally, doesn't come free.
Re: Power nodes... Well, the marines have got to be able to bring it back up somehow, if no one currently has a welder.
QuovatisTeam InversionJoin Date: 2010-01-26Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited January 2012
I'm not a big fan of having infestation blow up mines. All the aliens would have to do is have a kamikaze gorge go in, lay one cyst, and it could blow up 30+ mines, even though it's unconnected. No mines on infestation is fine, but the second rule needs to be tweaked. Perhaps just make it where mines don't blow up if covered in infestation (but can still be destroyed by bilebomb, etc). This would make aliens be able to move freely on infestation without worrying about mines, yet not overpowered where one cyst can take out 300 res worth of mines.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1892669:date=Jan 4 2012, 10:30 PM:name=Quovatis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quovatis @ Jan 4 2012, 10:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1892669"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not a big fan of having infestation blow up mines. All the aliens would have to do is have a kamikaze gorge go in, lay one cyst, and it could blow up 30+ mines, even though it's unconnected. No mines on infestation is fine, but the second rule needs to be tweaked. Perhaps just make it where mines don't blow up if covered in infestation (but can still be destroyed by bilebomb, etc). This would make aliens be able to move freely on infestation without worrying about mines, yet not overpowered where one cyst can take out 300 res worth of mines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> +1
<!--quoteo(post=1892623:date=Jan 4 2012, 11:01 AM:name=Laosh'Ra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Laosh'Ra @ Jan 4 2012, 11:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1892623"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->sorry for being a bit off-topic, but i noticed that the design log has dates like "12/3/2012", you might want to fix that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1892665:date=Jan 4 2012, 09:06 PM:name=Laosh'Ra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Laosh'Ra @ Jan 4 2012, 09:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1892665"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i am well aware of that. but we're not in december 20<b>12</b> are we?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nor in mars. You know what this means? We should go find their time machine and get us the released version of ns2!
rhombusLerk QueenJoin Date: 2011-06-23Member: 106055Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited January 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1892669:date=Jan 4 2012, 04:30 PM:name=Quovatis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quovatis @ Jan 4 2012, 04:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1892669"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not a big fan of having infestation blow up mines. All the aliens would have to do is have a kamikaze gorge go in, lay one cyst, and it could blow up 30+ mines, even though it's unconnected. No mines on infestation is fine, but the second rule needs to be tweaked. Perhaps just make it where mines don't blow up if covered in infestation (but can still be destroyed by bilebomb, etc). This would make aliens be able to move freely on infestation without worrying about mines, yet not overpowered where one cyst can take out 300 res worth of mines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Concern for this has been expressed already. The idea was jotted down without being fleshed out in the document so there's a lot more to it than just infestation blowing up mines.
endarJoin Date: 2010-07-27Member: 73256Members, Squad Five Blue
edited January 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1892661:date=Jan 5 2012, 06:03 AM:name=Dghelneshi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dghelneshi @ Jan 5 2012, 06:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1892661"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->@Laosh'Ra: "fix it"? It's not a mistake, MM/DD/YY is just the usual way to write dates in the US, while DD.MM.YY is more common in Europe.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You say that like Europe is the lone country, but i thought it was the rest of the world who uses DD.MM.YY, and ONLY the US uses MM.DD.YY. Who else uses MM.DD.YY (except maybe Canada).
Resource wise, 100% return but health based seems like an OK idea
Only suggestion is make sure that recycling animation is in place so that skulk's dont end up wasting time chewing a recycling extractor. (Or at least they can make a better decision)
Time wise:
For early relocations, suggestion is to keep the CC component to be similar timing but make IPS build quicker OR, give a free/fast building IP for each CC that is built.
The slow original CC build means it can't be abused by some wierd Ninja IP strategy etc.. but once the CC has been built, I don't see how the first IP can be abused even if it built quicker (or even instantly).
Mines:
Don't quite get how, 'not able to build on infestation' is going to stop Mines spam outside infestation areas
I also don't get 'infestation will blow up mines' actually stops the spamming. All it does is allow something to counter the spamming
so the question is, what exactly are you trying to address?
The ability to place many mines all over the place (Spamming)
<!--quoteo(post=1892702:date=Jan 5 2012, 04:49 PM:name=endar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (endar @ Jan 5 2012, 04:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1892702"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You say that like Europe is the lone country, but i thought it was the rest of the world who uses DD.MM.YY, and ONLY the US uses MM.DD.YY. Who else uses MM.DD.YY (except maybe Canada).
I forgot Belize!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> On a related note, it's ironic that the only country that successfully rebelled against the British Empire is practically the only one still using Imperial units to any major extent.
Comments
Hopefully this is a mistake.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The progress tracker shows only the current sprint of the project. It is not showing the accepted items of the last week's sprint. UWE has a sprint length of 1 week, even though they don't release weekly builds anymore. Thus you are not able to see the accepted tasks of the previous weeks on the progress tracker.
But as far as i remember the task was just "test the random spawn" or something like this. Not to actually implement it i think.
The logic was to have al the stuff you might glance at in the bottom half, and the informational thing you might want to know but not if a skulk is at your ankles at the top.
This means the bullets left, hp, armor etc are all together for quick checks and then maps and notifications are up top.
<a href="http://i.imgur.com/HEFDj.jpg" target="_blank">http://i.imgur.com/HEFDj.jpg</a>
Thoughts:
Basically, it makes sense that the jp bar would go over with health and armor
I pulled out the boxes around ui elements, I figured that the message queue could be unified for all messages from drops and deaths to notifications etc
Needed voice comm icon added that and some current speakers, I MAY have gone over board on that front.
Also it needs text chat as well so I added that.
The map I removed. I experimented with cutting out the background but it basically sucked because in the screen shot there is nothing in the back ground so it still didn't look transparent.
Overall, I think the scanning line effect used on the health bars and commander name is preferable to the box effect. It could be personal opinion here as well.
<a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12784365/marineH2.jpg" target="_blank">http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12784365/marineH2.jpg</a>
(Only the stuff that you see most of the time, rest in text form - to know if it still feels good if not every ui element is there)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hey Koruyo, those are some good changes. We like the minimap being on the left and death messages being on the right, and we really like the current location being above the minimap. We're going to stick with our Commander name and Res locations, however, being at the top middle for now, and keep the game timer at the lower left corner.
Thanks.
--Cory
Kill notices are pretty important and should be by itself and a bit larger, but not quite tf2 large.
My variation of it. <a href="http://i.imgur.com/VgaQT.jpg" target="_blank">http://i.imgur.com/VgaQT.jpg</a>
PS: i love the recent commander activity - think thats very usefull! So commanders dont need to communicate every little crap all the time, and can focus on more important things...
(maybe only show new buildings and starting researches, and if buildings are beeing attacked in a red box... medpacks ammo etc would be a bit much info that would spam this boxes)
From what I can understand about the many states of doors...
Door (invulnerable) -> Opened Door -> Closed Door -> Locked Door (destructible and +use to open) -> Welded Door (Onos/Infest destructible and cannot be opened) -> Broken Door (repairable?)
If so, then you could work it like ns1 where pulling it out shows the armor rings of players and health rings of structures without having to look directly at them to read their %.
Don't forget the 4/hp hit. Then people can get their epic welder kills.
This.
I'm curious to how the welder will look in NS2.
So the Welder basicly got 3 main purposes: Decreasing build time for structures, reinforcing doors, reparing players/structures fast, (melee against aliens)
The Welder should be kinda the Gorge of marine weaponry with it's own very special talent. While I dunno which weapon slot it will take I think it should replace at least a whole slot. It should give the carrying player much fun if he even can't spray and pray with ordinary weaponry and make the ###### com assistent to look after the other players and structures. That should be the mac.
If I'm imagining buying a Welder I need not only the satisfying purpose for being the wannabe Engineer, I want to make a personal difference with it while I'm still a threat to the Aliens, but in a special way. Similiar to the extra Rambo Fashion you got when you're carrying a Flamer the Welder should differate this feeling to an even more specific way that makes you proud when you land a bigtime Job with only a Tool.
Besides healing it's a Tool to mess with the Entities in the Level itself, so besides just boringly welding doors it should have a gimmick that makes it worthwile.
" Allow marines to repair power nodes without a welder (150/sec), but repair them faster with one (300/sec)."
what the hell is the welder for then? repairing, welding and repairing armor must be only done through welder, a tool which was built for this task alone.
aside from that, finally good news welder is in the works. pushing E on each other and power nodes has been so silly. Please don't make this game too easy to play.
if i remember correclt ns1 welder was slow 2?
also, may I suggest a bit of increased range for using the welder..
will allow for combat welding (eg.. welding moving targets)
but I wouldn't mind areas where you are suppose to wield on a door.
For example, instead of allowing welder when the user is facing the middle of the door only make it so you have to weld the the outside of the door if you understand what I mean.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->so we’re going to cut multiple Commanders, at least until v1.0. I don’t think many of you are going to miss it...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I must admit... I smiled when I read this :D
Of course MACs can always be used to weld doors/arcs/exos as well as repairing nodes and regular armor. Maybe they could have a moderate boost when welder tech has been researched too. Not so sure about this after re-reading the design doc since devs want to differentiate welder/marine tech tool from MACs.
As for the door welding design notes, it seems to make sense pretty well. I'm not sure that about having normal damage affect the doors. It's already been stated that chewing on nodes is one of the less interesting tasks in NS, so making a similar activity in chewing on doors seems odd. Also, it seems to make busting a door less dramatic. Locked doors should only remain sealed if powered up. Once the power goes out, the doors should get stuck opened unless they have been welded. This would allow for door control to change hands when territory changes until Onos come along to smash down any welded/locked doors for good. When that time comes, the marines have to be prepared.
I agree
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->+1<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Edit: Also, if a door is locked then maybe biting it should slowly open it creating enough space for a skulk and only a skulk to walk through (Make lerk but I don't know how big that is). This wouldn't prevent what is currently happening now but it will make it less effective (Locked doors giving marines easy territory).
Missing design log updates here, but yay Onos and Jetpack next patch :)
A while ago, yeah. I think it's a decent idea. Only light marines could wield it, since heavies can't use rifles (afaik). It still allows a player to defend himself, but sacrifices the grenade launcher attachment (and any other upgrades) as well as shotguns and flamethrowers. It also, naturally, doesn't come free.
Re: Power nodes... Well, the marines have got to be able to bring it back up somehow, if no one currently has a welder.
EDIT: I fail. Miserably.
+1
<!--quoteo(post=1892665:date=Jan 4 2012, 09:06 PM:name=Laosh'Ra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Laosh'Ra @ Jan 4 2012, 09:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1892665"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i am well aware of that. but we're not in december 20<b>12</b> are we?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nor in mars. You know what this means? We should go find their time machine and get us the released version of ns2!
Concern for this has been expressed already. The idea was jotted down without being fleshed out in the document so there's a lot more to it than just infestation blowing up mines.
You say that like Europe is the lone country, but i thought it was the rest of the world who uses DD.MM.YY, and ONLY the US uses MM.DD.YY. Who else uses MM.DD.YY (except maybe Canada).
edit:
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format_by_country" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format_by_country</a>
I forgot Belize!
Resource wise, 100% return but health based seems like an OK idea
Only suggestion is make sure that recycling animation is in place so that skulk's dont end up wasting time chewing a recycling extractor. (Or at least they can make a better decision)
Time wise:
For early relocations, suggestion is to keep the CC component to be similar timing but make IPS build quicker OR, give a free/fast building IP for each CC that is built.
The slow original CC build means it can't be abused by some wierd Ninja IP strategy etc.. but once the CC has been built, I don't see how the first IP can be abused even if it built quicker (or even instantly).
Mines:
Don't quite get how, 'not able to build on infestation' is going to stop Mines spam outside infestation areas
I also don't get 'infestation will blow up mines' actually stops the spamming. All it does is allow something to counter the spamming
so the question is, what exactly are you trying to address?
The ability to place many mines all over the place (Spamming)
Or the lack of ability to get rid of them?
Or the ability to place mines in enemy territory?
edit:
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format_by_country" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format_by_country</a>
I forgot Belize!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
On a related note, it's ironic that the only country that successfully rebelled against the British Empire is practically the only one still using Imperial units to any major extent.
also, endar: Europe isn't a country :P