fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited October 2011
The prize pool is so small, it's largely symbolic. Paying somebody to make an aimbot for NS2 would probably cost more than you'd get in return. In any case I don't think that's a big concern, the bigger issue is all the small advantages you can get through modifying certain game assets (such as changing the power down lights to all white). Consistency checking will help with that, but there damn well better be exceptions for certain files like crosshairs.dds. There is absolutely NO justifiable reason for not allowing people to select their own crosshairs, especially considering how useless the default ones are.
Another concern is the lack of first person spectating and the ability to record yourself. Without first person spectating it is pretty much impossible to determine if someone is selectively aimbotting or wallhacking and even with it, it's very difficult to say for sure. Unfortunately self-recording probably wouldn't be viable at the moment even if the devs actually did add it to the game, because it too ties up a certain amount of system resources and game performance is already barely acceptable (even with the 187 improvements). FRAPS is NOT a viable alternative.
So what's the conclusion? Play the game, have fun and try to not worry too much about this stuff.
<!--quoteo(post=1882195:date=Oct 26 2011, 08:55 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Oct 26 2011, 08:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882195"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why not delay the tournament until 188 is released? You know, if the update makes the game more playable maybe its best to be safe.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> As has already been said, the tournament is already creeping dangerously into Christmas territory, not to mention the exam period for some of us. Another significant concern is teams gradually dying off and general tournament "hype" decreasing. I'm already seeing a lot of teams going inactive and players losing their excitement. Even if the tournament started today, there would be several forfeits in the first round. If you delay it any further, that number will only increase.
I wouldn't say the community is fail though, it has become larger and more involved as the game has progressed. I sincerely hope that noone has a problem with mechanics and content changing in a tournament within a alpha/beta game though - Id love to see "professionals" having higher tier stuff suddenly thrown in the mix
Has anyone considered that the changes B188 will bring could cause large, unexpected shifts in game play and strategy? If the build only arrives a few days before the tourney, teams may not have adequate time to adjust.
<!--quoteo(post=1882558:date=Oct 29 2011, 12:51 AM:name=thefonz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (thefonz @ Oct 29 2011, 12:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882558"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Has anyone considered that the changes B188 will bring could cause large, unexpected shifts in game play and strategy? If the build only arrives a few days before the tourney, teams may not have adequate time to adjust.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course. Future patches are going to throw huge spanners in the works but people still for some reason play this competitively. When it's all feature complete, they'll then go back and changes lots of things like they did when Fade got blink, that got changed for example.
Although still you have to commend those that currently play competitively, as those "best NS2 players" should expect huge change.
<!--quoteo(post=1882552:date=Oct 28 2011, 02:41 PM:name=elodea)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elodea @ Oct 28 2011, 02:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882552"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But the waffle maker...!!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The waffle maker is the symbolic nature of the prize pool, lol
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1882552:date=Oct 28 2011, 11:41 PM:name=elodea)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elodea @ Oct 28 2011, 11:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882552"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But the waffle maker...!!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh ###### forgot about that. Time to call meb for that $5 lua hack.
<!--quoteo(post=1882558:date=Oct 29 2011, 12:51 AM:name=thefonz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (thefonz @ Oct 29 2011, 12:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882558"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Has anyone considered that the changes B188 will bring could cause large, unexpected shifts in game play and strategy? If the build only arrives a few days before the tourney, teams may not have adequate time to adjust.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Personally I was kinda hoping this would happen, that way each match would be genuinely exciting as all the tactics will be new, especially if random starting positions make their way in... The first time a team breaks out the Onos no one will quite know whats happening! The tourney might be more about rapidly adjusting tactics than skill which should make it a good watch.
<!--quoteo(post=1882500:date=Oct 28 2011, 06:51 PM:name=Cygone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cygone @ Oct 28 2011, 06:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882500"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They can request it, but its a pointless request. To do that you need a license for Fraps, and that total amount of money for licenses would FAR surpass that of the prize money. IF someone wants to cheat, well we cant stop them. But considering most people in this community know almost all the others, I think cheating will be quite low if present at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
but... uh... ddjjtr... uh... mmm... Ok, I forgive you for not knowing.
There is a free program called gregion, similar functionality to fraps, same video quality, different avi(gregion uses new avi, no 4gb file limit)...
My point is, your comment about the fraps licenses is invalid considering all the free alternatives available, especially gregion, which has the same video quality.
You're forgetting that such capture-programs put an extraordinary load upon the system (in comparison to other demo-techniques), add to that that many folks already have a hard enough time to just run the game in and of itself, let alone with another application running to completely bog down the system. Some players with very powerful machines might be obliged to make such a video, but you certainly can't expect everyone to do so.
ZeikkoJoin Date: 2007-12-16Member: 63179Members, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester
Oh no Yuuki! you're showing our secret strategies to everybody! Haha! Good games! Thanks for the video Yuuki! I love the music choice, i couldn't stop laughing when i saw the skulks rushing with this music choice. Awesome!
Let's leave this down to the people in the tournament not cheating.. if they cheat, it will probably be obvious. ns2hd will be recording the scores and player positions on the map as well as classes... so we should be able to tell if anyone is speed hacking, damage hacking, or wall hacking simply from observing their behaviour compared to previously observed skill.
ArgathorJoin Date: 2011-07-18Member: 110942Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1883227:date=Nov 2 2011, 12:04 PM:name=Ironsoul)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ironsoul @ Nov 2 2011, 12:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883227"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...so we should be able to tell if anyone is... hacking simply from observing their behaviour compared to previously observed skill.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This previous observed skill makes me uncomfortable! I can be incredibly dangerous at times, but...I also trap myself on my own Hydra as a gorge, evolve into fade at silly places and defend vent standing on the railing (then falling off to my death at the sight of a skulk). If someone saw some of that play, they would probably think I was cheating merely getting a kill! :-/
* hell, NS2HD even flamed one of my fade eggs recently in a video! :-/
ZeikkoJoin Date: 2007-12-16Member: 63179Members, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester
<!--quoteo(post=1883227:date=Nov 2 2011, 01:04 PM:name=Ironsoul)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ironsoul @ Nov 2 2011, 01:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883227"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Let's leave this down to the people in the tournament not cheating.. if they cheat, it will probably be obvious. ns2hd will be recording the scores and player positions on the map as well as classes... so we should be able to tell if anyone is speed hacking, damage hacking, or wall hacking simply from observing their behaviour compared to previously observed skill.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How do you tell wallhacking in a game where you can see players in the minimap through walls and other obstacles? I don't see any way distinguishing between legitimate good usage of minimap and malicious usage of map editor to remove textures or using wireframe or other stuff like that.
<!--quoteo(post=1883149:date=Nov 1 2011, 11:55 PM:name=Yuuki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yuuki @ Nov 1 2011, 11:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883149"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Build 188 or not we are training hard !
It's not very effective<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It actually took only about 10 minutes to move all the whips from alien start to the corridor between ventilation and marine start where they suffered from a deadly grenade bombardment.
<!--quoteo(post=1883252:date=Nov 2 2011, 05:17 PM:name=Zeikko)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zeikko @ Nov 2 2011, 05:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883252"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It actually took only about 10 minutes to move all the whips from alien start to the corridor between ventilation and marine start where they suffered from a deadly grenade bombardment.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> ...Only... Next time we should build the whips in FC, with an army of gorges the build shouldn't take long (and the entrance is closer to the CC).
ArgathorJoin Date: 2011-07-18Member: 110942Members, Squad Five Blue
I tried a form of your Whip rush earlier today on a public and made some discoveries...
1) If you unroot all the whips and then use a nearby shade to cloak, they stay cloaked while moving. Cloaked Whip rushes baby! (sadly you then need a chain of shades all the way to Marine Start (as it only lasts 30sec? and Whips move really slow!).
2) Building them all at FC saves a LOT of time.
3) It takes Marines a LONG time to kill 10 Whips that appear in their base!
Comments
Another concern is the lack of first person spectating and the ability to record yourself. Without first person spectating it is pretty much impossible to determine if someone is selectively aimbotting or wallhacking and even with it, it's very difficult to say for sure. Unfortunately self-recording probably wouldn't be viable at the moment even if the devs actually did add it to the game, because it too ties up a certain amount of system resources and game performance is already barely acceptable (even with the 187 improvements). FRAPS is NOT a viable alternative.
So what's the conclusion? Play the game, have fun and try to not worry too much about this stuff.
<!--quoteo(post=1882195:date=Oct 26 2011, 08:55 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Oct 26 2011, 08:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1882195"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why not delay the tournament until 188 is released? You know, if the update makes the game more playable maybe its best to be safe.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As has already been said, the tournament is already creeping dangerously into Christmas territory, not to mention the exam period for some of us. Another significant concern is teams gradually dying off and general tournament "hype" decreasing. I'm already seeing a lot of teams going inactive and players losing their excitement. Even if the tournament started today, there would be several forfeits in the first round. If you delay it any further, that number will only increase.
I wouldn't say the community is fail though, it has become larger and more involved as the game has progressed.
I sincerely hope that noone has a problem with mechanics and content changing in a tournament within a alpha/beta game though - Id love to see "professionals" having higher tier stuff suddenly thrown in the mix
But the waffle maker...!!
Of course. Future patches are going to throw huge spanners in the works but people still for some reason play this competitively. When it's all feature complete, they'll then go back and changes lots of things like they did when Fade got blink, that got changed for example.
Although still you have to commend those that currently play competitively, as those "best NS2 players" should expect huge change.
The waffle maker is the symbolic nature of the prize pool, lol
Oh ###### forgot about that. Time to call meb for that $5 lua hack.
CS:GO had a tournament recently,
Starcraft 2 underwent countless tournaments in its beta.
Not sure about you guys but,
this pretty much validates the point against that random guy who comes back to rise the community every so often.
Personally I was kinda hoping this would happen, that way each match would be genuinely exciting as all the tactics will be new, especially if random starting positions make their way in... The first time a team breaks out the Onos no one will quite know whats happening! The tourney might be more about rapidly adjusting tactics than skill which should make it a good watch.
but... uh... ddjjtr... uh... mmm... Ok, I forgive you for not knowing.
There is a free program called gregion, similar functionality to fraps, same video quality, different avi(gregion uses new avi, no 4gb file limit)...
My point is, your comment about the fraps licenses is invalid considering all the free alternatives available, especially gregion, which has the same video quality.
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/wiew2JGsEt8"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/wiew2JGsEt8" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
Haha! Good games!
Thanks for the video Yuuki! I love the music choice, i couldn't stop laughing when i saw the skulks rushing with this music choice. Awesome!
This previous observed skill makes me uncomfortable! I can be incredibly dangerous at times, but...I also trap myself on my own Hydra as a gorge, evolve into fade at silly places and defend vent standing on the railing (then falling off to my death at the sight of a skulk). If someone saw some of that play, they would probably think I was cheating merely getting a kill! :-/
* hell, NS2HD even flamed one of my fade eggs recently in a video! :-/
How do you tell wallhacking in a game where you can see players in the minimap through walls and other obstacles?
I don't see any way distinguishing between legitimate good usage of minimap and malicious usage of map editor to remove textures or using wireframe or other stuff like that.
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/wiew2JGsEt8"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/wiew2JGsEt8" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pub.eu uses Whips and Gorges rush !
[30 minutes later]
It's not very effective
[30 minutes later]
It's not very effective<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It actually took only about 10 minutes to move all the whips from alien start to the corridor between ventilation and marine start where they suffered from a deadly grenade bombardment.
...Only...
Next time we should build the whips in FC, with an army of gorges the build shouldn't take long (and the entrance is closer to the CC).
1) If you unroot all the whips and then use a nearby shade to cloak, they stay cloaked while moving. Cloaked Whip rushes baby! (sadly you then need a chain of shades all the way to Marine Start (as it only lasts 30sec? and Whips move really slow!).
2) Building them all at FC saves a LOT of time.
3) It takes Marines a LONG time to kill 10 Whips that appear in their base!