Mac mines

kababkabab Join Date: 2003-12-15 Member: 24384Members, Constellation
in NS2 General Discussion
I see on the tracker mines are being added to the mac's yay :D

Just a little concern i have though..

In NS1 mines where used as a cheap and effect way for marines to lay down some defence without any significant pre-prerequisite just an armoury if I rectal..

Whilst giving mac's the ability is awesome it still doesn't give marines an early cheap defence since mac's are quiet expensive to acquire.

Just a thought :)
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Comments

  • RichardRahlRichardRahl Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104594Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1881350:date=Oct 23 2011, 07:56 AM:name=kabab)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kabab @ Oct 23 2011, 07:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881350"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I see on the tracker mines are being added to the mac's yay :D

    Just a little concern i have though..

    In NS1 mines where used as a cheap and effect way for marines to lay down some defence without any significant pre-prerequisite just an armoury if I rectal..

    Whilst giving mac's the ability is awesome it still doesn't give marines an early cheap defence since mac's are quiet expensive to acquire.

    Just a thought :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    they arnt' all that needed early on, the maps are so small in NS2 that you can get back before a skulk will significantly damage anything.
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  • Raza.Raza. Join Date: 2004-01-24 Member: 25663Members, Constellation
    Keep in mind that we don't know how much the mines themself cost and how many come with a MAC.
    Could be one per MAC (which would be useless) or 'infinite', with only energy/tres/pres as limiting factor.

    I agree though that going the robotics factory -> MAC route directly at the beginning of the round doesn't seem worth it at the moment.

    <!--quoteo(post=1881350:date=Oct 23 2011, 01:56 PM:name=kabab)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kabab @ Oct 23 2011, 01:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881350"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->if I rectal..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Good typo btw. ;)
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  • BacillusBacillus Join Date: 2006-11-02 Member: 58241Members
    One thing I don't like is how MACs aren't probably able to use the 3D environment to the fullest due to the top down RTS view. Mines in the middle of the floor are only one thing you can do with them in 3D.
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  • KurrineKurrine Join Date: 2010-07-03 Member: 72235Members
    The limitation on placement is a bit of a downer definitely.. Though I suppose at least they probably cant bury them in Phasegates and IPs either like I do so remember well. I assume bilebomb will detonate them like always?
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  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    Gonna miss the wall mines, vent mines and most importantly, the ability to make stairs out of mines.
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  • konatakonata Join Date: 2011-08-24 Member: 118296Members
    I lol'd when I first read about Mac Mines.
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  • SewlekSewlek The programmer previously known as Schimmel Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
    I made 2 months ago an implementation of them in my PT mod, and they turned out to be very useful even if only laying at the ground. you can place then behind RT's, behind sentries etc, that's a pretty cool additional defense. and it puts more importance in building a robotics factory, which is something that is needed atm (more different viable strategies to go).

    I'm also not sure how the final implementation of MAC mines will look like, i can just tell how it looked in my mod: you do the research and the robotics factory, then for 5 t.res for each mine you can place them with a mac. the mines were a structure, that meant that bilebombs would destroy them (same as in ns1). of course it's possible that they would cost p.res, but i doubt it would be mac energy. you could spam them too much then :)
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  • kababkabab Join Date: 2003-12-15 Member: 24384Members, Constellation
    Smart and sneaky mine placement was great in NS1 it would be a shame to see the mechanic dumbed down due to mac's..

    Perhaps marine should be able to purchase them from the armoury to?
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  • Egad!Egad! Join Date: 2011-10-19 Member: 128250Members
    Hmm. Maybe MACs just drop mines. That way when marines and MACs are out building extractors, a MAC could produce a mine (for a set resource cost, of course), and then a marine could pick it up and use it.
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  • TimTim Join Date: 2011-07-24 Member: 111958Members
    I agree with kabab that the MAC mines would probably discourage the use of them early game.
    Every commander (inc myself) generally builds the arms lab well before the robo factory.

    I can only think that the mines are being added as a counter to the Onos if the macs are going to place them. You won't see them until mid-late game.

    I believe that MAC placement of mines also ruins most of their offensive capability... a commander would have to follow a couple of marines with a mac. It would be best if both marines and MACs could place them, but this might contribute to the turtle problem we currently encounter in the current builds.
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  • kababkabab Join Date: 2003-12-15 Member: 24384Members, Constellation
    I'd like to put out there i do like the idea of mac's being able to place mines but i think making it mac exclusive nerf's the marines cheap early game defence strategy...
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  • SewlekSewlek The programmer previously known as Schimmel Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
    i don't think one of the design goals is to ignore tactical depth in ns2. mac mines are just 1 tool out of many, and it's not fixed how they will work
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  • CygoneCygone Join Date: 2011-05-29 Member: 101528Members
    Why dont all MACs get a 'free' mine when they are purchased, and this mine is 'restocked' in x amount of seconds. Also make them purchasable from the armory for PRES
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  • YuukiYuuki Join Date: 2010-11-20 Member: 75079Members
    Make them spider mines ! I would love to see a squad of marines explode to a mine dragged by a skulk.
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  • kingmobkingmob Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3650Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1881593:date=Oct 24 2011, 08:01 AM:name=Yuuki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yuuki @ Oct 24 2011, 08:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881593"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Make them spider mines !....<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Spider mines....hahaha....I remember Dystopia had very entertaining spider mines.
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  • KalabalanaKalabalana Join Date: 2003-11-14 Member: 22859Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1881617:date=Oct 24 2011, 10:37 AM:name=kingmob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kingmob @ Oct 24 2011, 10:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881617"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Spider mines....hahaha....I remember Dystopia had very entertaining spider mines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    They were awesome.
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  • GeneralBowserGeneralBowser Join Date: 2010-05-19 Member: 71801Members
    Chances are that aliens have fades by the time they have mac's so the impact won't be a gamekiller. But it could be nice that marines can easier defend isolated spots I guess.
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  • KalabalanaKalabalana Join Date: 2003-11-14 Member: 22859Members
    If instead of a tech lab, exo armor and jet packs were researchable by a robotics factory, it would greatly increase the structure's importance, and make it more of a presence in the early game. This would also make viable strats with early game MACs dropping mines for defense.
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  • ZeikkoZeikko Join Date: 2007-12-16 Member: 63179Members, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester
    edited October 2011
    <!--quoteo(post=1881621:date=Oct 24 2011, 04:59 PM:name=Kalabalana)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kalabalana @ Oct 24 2011, 04:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881621"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They were awesome.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <!--quoteo(post=1881621:date=Oct 24 2011, 04:59 PM:name=Kalabalana)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kalabalana @ Oct 24 2011, 04:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881621"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They were awesome.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    The great thing about Dystopia spider mines was their limited tracking capabilities and range. I was surprised that it actually required some skill to use them.
    Also avoiding them was a good skill to develop. Fun times, good gameplay.
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  • elodeaelodea Editlodea Join Date: 2009-06-20 Member: 67877Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    quite concerned with mines being added to macs. Wouldn't this make the robotics way too useful in prolonging stalemates? Sentry spam + mine spam right behind sentries is a bit too synergistic imo making skulk play really super boring. Again, all of this will rely on how the resource model is balanced but.

    Like others have said, going to miss creative mine placing !! :(.
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  • KalabalanaKalabalana Join Date: 2003-11-14 Member: 22859Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1881636:date=Oct 24 2011, 12:45 PM:name=Zeikko)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zeikko @ Oct 24 2011, 12:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881636"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The great thing about Dystopia spider mines was their limited tracking capabilities and range. I was surprised that it actually required some skill to use them.
    Also avoiding them was a good skill to develop. Fun times, good gameplay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    My Mk made short work of them. lol
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  • kingmobkingmob Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3650Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1881705:date=Oct 24 2011, 04:53 PM:name=Kalabalana)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kalabalana @ Oct 24 2011, 04:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881705"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My Mk made short work of them. lol<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    If you saw it coming...sneaky little spiders
    That was probably the sweetest of the HL2 mods for me.

    Sorry for going totally off course.
    As for the mines laid by macs I will take a wait and see attitude.
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  • SomeMiceDrinkingTeaSomeMiceDrinkingTea Join Date: 2011-06-11 Member: 103818Members
    edited November 2011
    Perhaps Commanders could use the wheel button on their mouse to zoom into a first person perspective of the map, just like "Dark Reign 2" if anyone knows that game. This might make it easier for the commanders to select walls to place mines on them. This could also help with Cyst placement.
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  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    I was hoping that mines would have been an early marine base defense, but if they are kept with the MAC, then I think that either they will be worthless or just promote further marine turtling.

    Instead, I'd love to see this changed to a cheap/low damage mine (enough to kill a skulk, but not anything else), that the comm can drop from the beginning of the game at the cost of some PRes (maybe 1-2 PRes/mine to be comparable to a med or ammo pack?)
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  • subshadowsubshadow Join Date: 2003-04-21 Member: 15710Members
    How about the marine comm can do a spell called "Assist AI", this would let the commander possess the mac/turret en place mines or aim a turret in a 3d environment at the cost of energy/res and of course, losing his overview of the map.
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  • TechercizerTechercizer 7th Player Join Date: 2011-06-11 Member: 103832Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1884042:date=Nov 7 2011, 03:41 AM:name=subshadow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (subshadow @ Nov 7 2011, 03:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1884042"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How about the marine comm can do a spell called "Assist AI", this would let the commander possess the mac/turret en place mines or aim a turret in a 3d environment at the cost of energy/res and of course, losing his overview of the map.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <!--quoteo(post=1884042:date=Nov 7 2011, 03:41 AM:name=subshadow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (subshadow @ Nov 7 2011, 03:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1884042"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->spell<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <!--quoteo(post=1884042:date=Nov 7 2011, 03:41 AM:name=subshadow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (subshadow @ Nov 7 2011, 03:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1884042"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->possess<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <!--quoteo(post=1884042:date=Nov 7 2011, 03:41 AM:name=subshadow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (subshadow @ Nov 7 2011, 03:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1884042"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->place mines or aim a turret in a 3d environment<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <!--quoteo(post=1884042:date=Nov 7 2011, 03:41 AM:name=subshadow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (subshadow @ Nov 7 2011, 03:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1884042"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->losing his overview of the map.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    What? All of my whats.

    That sounds nothing like the NS2 com's role
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  • WilsonWilson Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 72867Members
    It's like that spell in Dungeon Keeper that lets you take control of a creature.
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  • ZeikkoZeikko Join Date: 2007-12-16 Member: 63179Members, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester
    <!--quoteo(post=1884081:date=Nov 7 2011, 07:32 PM:name=Wilson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wilson @ Nov 7 2011, 07:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1884081"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's like that spell in Dungeon Keeper that lets you take control of a creature.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    That was awesome feature in Dungeon Keeper!

    But I still wouldn't want to see this in NS2 because you can enjoy the fps side of the game just by pressing the logout of the commander console.
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  • TechercizerTechercizer 7th Player Join Date: 2011-06-11 Member: 103832Members
    edited November 2011
    <!--quoteo(post=1884081:date=Nov 7 2011, 11:32 AM:name=Wilson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wilson @ Nov 7 2011, 11:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1884081"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's like that spell in Dungeon Keeper that lets you take control of a creature.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    But this isn't Dungeon Keeper, last time I checked. Com's place is wide-spread battlefield control, and letting him take control of a turret not only leaves nobody watching the map (making it a pretty counter-productive choice and a bit of a trap for newbie commanders), it gives Marines back the extra gun(s) that they're supposed to be spending by having a com.
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  • PapayasPapayas Join Date: 2010-07-01 Member: 72219Members
    edited November 2011
    Still, being able to zoom in would be very useful (For the alien commander as well; whips in corners without them poking out).


    I think the alien commander could go into a first person view (Or BE a drifter) because then they can put whips on the ceiling.


    <!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->
    That way they can make the marine and alien commanders different!<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->

    <!--sizeo:6--><span style="font-size:24pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->YAAAAAAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
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