What's the problem with the upgrades, anyway? In NS1 the difficulty was in choosing between equally good (in theory at least) upgrades, is that going to be dropped too? I had assumed it was just a matter of time and resources to get more upgrades into the game.
I think the issue with upgrades is that currently there is nothing to force you to pick 1 upgrade over another so if you have the res and the upgrade is unlocked you always get them all whereas with NS1 once you had the chamber you were forced to pick only one upgrade which would then potentially change how you played.
make lerk slow but add a new lerk fast moving attack like going fast like a arrow to hit the enemy target and add upgrades like when hit big gas cloud is release. Im not talking about kamikaze but an attack like ns1 onos charge.
and it would be great adding "last weapon used" key like in cs or hl
Originally, when I first try to switch between eggs, with switching eggs under one hive and then move to another hive .. fells not very well. The idea about switching between different hive's eggs each time yo switch egg is great, simple ... you don't need more.
when you wan more, then add egg selection on the map (similar to mute/un-mute players on scoreboard): - hold "button" for the map - click left m-button to show mouse - h-over of mouse on egg sprite will highlight egg for selection - left click on egg will select that egg!
I hope it's simple, understandable ... uniform with other existing stuff
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Add some way to attract players to Commander...medals?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Be careful here. It was the same in early NS1 years. Comms will come.
Good points brought up (RTS with dumb units, just an upgrade machine) but I think a large part is because of not wanting to deal with the commander view bugs.
IMHO fix what you got and revisit. I think you go a long way if you make MACS more enjoyable, consider allowing the comm to become the MAC directly (FPS view, etc).
As far as alien comm goes. Aliens don't need a comm after a certain point. Comm by committee works (pop in build some chambers, pop out). This mechanic could be encouraged by allowing the player to spend personal res in comm. As someone else mentioned, cysts nerfed the expansion responsibilities of the comm. When I comm alien I expand, build structures/upgrade then hop out and defend until res reaches a certain point then repeat. The alien meta game should still be organic.
Example first-life bonus for marines: Players have a 10% chance to spawn with a shotgun if they join the marine team before the round starts.
So not everyone gets the bonus, some people just win the lottery each time (and only if they get on the team before the round starts). Those people will not want to die, and smart team mates will want to protect them until the tech becomes available. The lore behind it would be that the strike team came prepared. :P
What? 10% chance to spawn with a shotgun? What's wrong with you? :P
It's an FPS. We don't want a game of chance and probability, I'd play WoW to work those as best as I could. I want a game of skill where you have to earn the right to be good and be better than the other team, not be handed it.
<!--quoteo(post=1880574:date=Oct 19 2011, 01:51 AM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Oct 19 2011, 01:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1880574"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[*]Add some way to attract players to Commander...medals?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't think this will be an issue as and when more maps come into rotation on servers. I just think people are fed up with being comm on summit all the time at the moment.
<!--quoteo(post=1880574:date=Oct 19 2011, 02:51 AM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Oct 19 2011, 02:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1880574"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Adjusting alien egg spawn times (making it fast when you have few eggs and slowing down when you have more)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not sure about this, shouldn't there be a benefit to having more eggs (more hives)? Aliens can destroy IPs to slow down the reinforcement rate, why shouldn't that be possible for marines?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Adding better sentry tracers so you know what’s happening before you’re suddenly dead<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Another problem is that you can barely hear the sentry firing when it's a couple meters away from you.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Some kind of bonus for your very first life...gives incentive not to die and for tense, probing game start<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Don't like it, makes no sense. At game start teams should be pushing out to secure territory, not play defensive because everyone is afraid to lose their bonus.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe have alien alt abilities always triggerable. So right-click is always heal, even if you are bile-bombing. Leaping while parasiting. Doesn’t quite work for the Onos though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes! This was a good addition to NS1 (+movement) and I always wanted something similar for NS2.
<u>It would be cool if we could open the evolve menu while respawning</u>, so you save a little time, and don't have to hatch - open the menu - re-evolve - hatch again. (maybe even auto open the menu while respawning?) Especially usefull for the small upgrades like frenzy, camo etc... (i kinda feel that ppl very often forget to evolve them)
_________________
<b>While we are at it - Alien upgrades/researches:</b>
NS1: <b>No General Damage or Armor upgrades</b>(ok hidden for armor depending on hives => armor more effective. Read something like that somewhere)
<b>Weapons: Depending on Hives, each lifeform got additional "weapons"</b>
Every upgrade hat 3 lvls, if you have 3 chambers you get the highest lvl of the upgrade => strongest version. You can only pick one of each category, and each chamber is linked to a hive ... so to have 2 different chambers you need to have 2 hives.
Depending on lifeform or playstyle you had different combos, that are still effective in their way. Like a silent ambush skulk (Carapace/Regeneration, Silence, Cloak/Focus) or are speedy in your face skulk (Carapace, Celerity, Sent of Fear/Focus) ____________________
NS2: (parts from the design log ideas) <b>General: Damage(whip) and Armor(Crag) upgrades</b> - but they dont work for every lifeform??? oO
<b>Weapons: In addition there are upgrades for other "weapons" - like bilebomb for gorge.</b> ___________________
Its a complete mess compared to ns1. There is no specialization on playstyle lifeform or situation anymore. => the upgrades cant be as strong or are only effective in certain situation - e.g. Celerity should only work on infestation oO...
So... whats the plan??? - with every upgrade and weapon - i can/have to upgrade 20 different things?
____________
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->• Lerk is too fast (he can be anywhere on the map so fast) <!--coloro:#FFFACD--><span style="color:#FFFACD"><!--/coloro-->Not sure, needs some tests how it would play if slower...<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
• Quieter footsteps when wall-walking (to encourage use of it) <!--coloro:#FFFACD--><span style="color:#FFFACD"><!--/coloro-->Its good as it is if you ask me...<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
• ARCs need mucho help <!--coloro:#FFFACD--><span style="color:#FFFACD"><!--/coloro-->Made a post in getsatisfaction - i agree<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
• Need to see the latest upgrades, esp. as they are researched <!--coloro:#FFFACD--><span style="color:#FFFACD"><!--/coloro-->See if upgrades available in Hud, like it was in ns1...?<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
• Need to fix voice volume being low for some people <!--coloro:#FFFACD--><span style="color:#FFFACD"><!--/coloro-->Need sliders for input and output of voice + some db boosters (look how its done in mumble or teamspeak)<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
• Some kind of bonus for your very first life...gives incentive not to die and for tense, probing game start <!--coloro:#FFFACD--><span style="color:#FFFACD"><!--/coloro-->Sounds very interessting!<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
• Add some way to attract players to Commander...medals? <!--coloro:#FFFACD--><span style="color:#FFFACD"><!--/coloro-->Details?<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
• Not enough damage feedback in general (you’re suddenly dead). <!--coloro:#FFFACD--><span style="color:#FFFACD"><!--/coloro-->You could add a low/no armor alert - since with low armor/hp alone you are pretty much already in the near dead/instakill zone for most lifeforms<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
• Alien alerts (“Your hive is under attackâ€) shouldn’t be affected by low-health DSP <!--coloro:#FFFACD--><span style="color:#FFFACD"><!--/coloro-->In general alerts should be improved, better hive sight and "global waypoints" would be cool - currently i only get overview with my minimap(especially in public matches) or commander(if no voice useless)<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
•Lerk is too fast (he can be anywhere on the map so fast) He's fine as he is but I would like to see a flight speed increase when dive bombing
•Quieter footsteps when wall-walking (to encourage use of it) Cant even hear them when they are running untill they are right behind me
•ARCs need mucho help I dont see a issue with the state they are in now, build 3 profit
•Need to see the latest upgrades, esp. as they are researched Would be nice to see our current upgrades on the screen but maybe not the reasearching ones
•Need to fix voice volume being low for some people Yes this is a issue atm when a comm is giving orders and noone can hear him
•Some kind of bonus for your very first life...gives incentive not to die and for tense, probing game start I don't think this is needed aliens have enough advatanges early on and this could cause more early wins for them
•Add some way to attract players to Commander...medals? A easy tutorial covering the basics and tool tips
•Not enough damage feedback in general (you’re suddenly dead). I know how I'm dying all the time (apart from looking at the kill feed)
•Alien alerts (“Your hive is under attackâ€) shouldn’t be affected by low-health DSP Should be played if its still being attacked over a long period
I think the alien spawn times should be something simple like:
2 skulks can spawn every 6 seconds. 1 egg spawns every 6 seconds.
That way if you kill the skulks fast enough you can limit the spawns to single skulks rather than dual spawns. If you kill 4 skulks it would take 12 seconds for them all to respawn again and it would take 24 seconds for the eggs to be replaced. Perhaps the egg spawn time is too fast though and the hives would always be full of eggs, idk, it would need to be tested.
I think the only other way is to make the egg spawn rate dynamic based on the number of eggs (i.e. the more eggs at a hive the slower the next egg takes to spawn). Since if you make the egg spawn rate too long compared to the spawn time then you get this situation where the aliens spawn time increases dramatically when the eggs run out and players can be waiting for 40+ seconds just to spawn.
I definitely think there should be a spawn cue though, similar to the marine IPs.
Aliens dont have a oh ###### button(distress), so if you want to make the spawn queue system similar to marines - aliens need this too.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah maybe they could have an ability to replace all the eggs or spawn all at once for a certain amount of tres. Again I think you really need to play with these things in-game to see what works.
On the subject of distress beacon, I think that it should cost tres to use. At the moment the marines can build multiple observatories in their base and have infinite beacon. I also think that if you build more than 1 obs that they should all share the same energy pool, so that you can't build more to allow you to scan more often. I think scan is a really powerful ability and I like the fact that it can only be used a few times and you need to conserve energy. With multiple obs the commander can just spam scans freely and you don't need to time it well or use it intelligently.
Don't you think the "sudden death" problems ("Adding better sentry tracers so you know what’s happening before you’re suddenly dead" "Not enough damage feedback in general (you’re suddenly dead). This may be a server tick rate issue, not sure.") are related to it ? Like the instant you lose you armor you die very fast.
<!--quoteo(post=1880653:date=Oct 19 2011, 10:49 PM:name=konata)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (konata @ Oct 19 2011, 10:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1880653"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What? 10% chance to spawn with a shotgun? What's wrong with you?
It's an FPS. We don't want a game of chance and probability, I'd play WoW to work those as best as I could. I want a game of skill where you have to earn the right to be good and be better than the other team, not be handed it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> On the FPS side, TF2 has crits, L4D has the Tank lottery. On the RTS side, the Command & Conquer games have crates filled with random goodies. Minor randomisation in either genre is hardly an original idea.
In any case, the thinking was: <ul><li>A similar bonus for each team</li><li>Only people who join a team before round start are eligible for a bonus (to discourage team-stacking)</li><li>The bonus is quickly made irrelevant by teching up</li><li>Only a few people get the bonus each time so that bonus can be meaningful enough to make a difference without overpowering an entire team</li><li>This means the bonus also acts as an opportunity: When it's your turn, you really don't want to screw it up.</li><li>The reasoning behind shotguns specifically is that they are dropped on death and others marines can pick it up</li></ul> I'm not too concerned about what the bonus itself actually <i>is</i>, I'm more interesting in the mechanics behind it.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited October 2011
Assorted thoughts and comments:
<!--quoteo(post=1880574:date=Oct 19 2011, 01:51 AM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Oct 19 2011, 01:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1880574"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[*]Adding minimum respawn time to aliens [*]Adjusting alien egg spawn times (making it fast when you have few eggs and slowing down when you have more)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The first is an incredibly important fix at the moment. The second seems to contradict the purpose of the first and is unintuitive. IMO the marines should have the option to either attack the hive or delay attacking the hive to hurt the ability for aliens to respawn. This also makes it easier to end games that are, in reality, lost earlier rather than dragging them out.
<!--quoteo(post=1880574:date=Oct 19 2011, 01:51 AM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Oct 19 2011, 01:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1880574"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[*]Add some way to attract players to Commander...medals?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> A (very simple) system that tracks your wins and losses, and perhaps other statistics related to commanding, would be phenomenal. Could be connected to achievements, but I don't know if that's necessary.
<!--quoteo(post=1880574:date=Oct 19 2011, 01:51 AM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Oct 19 2011, 01:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1880574"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[*]Quieter footsteps when wall-walking (to encourage use of it)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Aliens are already too difficult to hear. It makes more sense to give aliens the choice to upgrade the ability to be silent (at the omission of other beneficial upgrades, having to consider the pros and cons of choosing an upgrade is generally a good thing).
<!--quoteo(post=1880574:date=Oct 19 2011, 01:51 AM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Oct 19 2011, 01:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1880574"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[*]Energy regeneration faster when still so you don’t run out when doing repetitive tasks like biting nodes, healing players<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Seems like a zero sum game. If the rate of which aliens kill structures is already balanced, you would have to increase structure health to make up for aliens not having to take pauses while taking down structures to regain energy. If the amount of time it takes to kill an rt stays the same, there's little difference between sitting at the rt waiting for energy to recharge and sitting at the rt while biting it. The current system might actually be better: while you are waiting for energy to recharge you can at least do other things (like scout for marines coming to save the rt) whereas with a constant stream of energy you would have to stay at the rt biting it constantly until it goes down.
<!--quoteo(post=1880662:date=Oct 19 2011, 02:30 PM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Oct 19 2011, 02:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1880662"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Its a complete mess compared to ns1. There is no specialization on playstyle lifeform or situation anymore.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This seems to be a general problem with the game unfortunately. It might be a necessary part of game development, what do I know, but it seems like NS2 lacks direction in some ways. There's all sorts of wild ideas flying around (whips throwing back grenades anyone? Or even the grenade launcher being an attachment to the rifle in the first place?), some being put into the game, seemingly without there being much thought given to how these ideas are actually going to affect the rest of the game or if they even synergize with what's already in the game. There seems to be a lot of "lets try x to fix y" without fully considering what other implications x might have on the rest of the game. This may sound a bit harsh, but it's just the impression I get as an outside observer playing the game.
Specifically about the alien upgrade system; NS1 was beautiful in that regard. You had three different choices, all mutually exclusive at the start of the game, and your choice very much dictated not only how the game played out but also what skills your players would have to utilize to win the round. Choosing sensory chamber first made the biggest difference of course, with SC first rounds almost feeling like an entirely different game than DC or MC first games. Even choosing DC or MC had big ramifications however. If you went MC first, your Lerk had a lot more leeway in how he would play the game and how he supported the rest of the team and hive assaults would play out completely different depending on your chamber choice. Even then there were smaller choices within each selection, with the personal upgrades you chose depending on each chamber, also differentiating how you would play using a certain chamber. All this, yet the system was actually very simple in construction and easy to learn and understand.
I would say NS2 should try to build on this, instead of rejecting it and using the "buffet style" upgrade system aliens currently have. If anything, the disctinction between the different upgrade trees should be bigger, not smaller.
Aliens dont have a oh ###### button(distress), so if you want to make the spawn queue system similar to marines - aliens need this too.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Aliens didn't need it in NS1, I can't see any changes made to NS2 so far that makes any difference in that regard.
<!--quoteo(post=1880633:date=Oct 19 2011, 10:27 AM:name=Wilson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wilson @ Oct 19 2011, 10:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1880633"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think lerk speed is okay as long as they are made really bad against buildings. The speed only seems a problem to me when lerks can constantly harass the marine buildings and the marines are unable to defend them fast enough. If the lerks didn't do much damage towards buildings then they would only be a nuisance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm not a fan of this current trend of putting arbitrary limits on how certain classes do damage. If the weapons are designed correctly, you don't need to put invisible modifiers on how certain attacks deal damage against different types of targets. Furthermore, the more you specilize classes in this way, the more you delegate certain boring tasks on the remaining classes. Taking down structures is not a fun gameplay activity -- it's something you do because it's necessary for the strategic part of the game. If you limit the damage certain classes do against structures too much, you're basically left with two classes (the skulk and the gorge, but for most of the game simply the skulk since the gorge only gets bilebomb at hive 2 and even then is very vulnerable while bilebombing) doing all the boring tasks while the other classes get to have all the fun. Raise your hand if you want to play skulk in this scenario?
<!--quoteo(post=1880673:date=Oct 19 2011, 03:40 PM:name=Wilson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wilson @ Oct 19 2011, 03:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1880673"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->On the subject of distress beacon, I think that it should cost tres to use. At the moment the marines can build multiple observatories in their base and have infinite beacon. I also think that if you build more than 1 obs that they should all share the same energy pool, so that you can't build more to allow you to scan more often. I think scan is a really powerful ability and I like the fact that it can only be used a few times and you need to conserve energy. With multiple obs the commander can just spam scans freely and you don't need to time it well or use it intelligently.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree that beacon should cost tres, right now you can just spam it without really considering any consequences. Beacon is an extremely powerful tool and should be priced as such. The other option would be to make it cost a lot more energy for each beacon.
I don't think scans should cost tres or that observatories should share the same energy pool. For one that would negate a lot of the purpose behind building multiple observatories, but mainly I think scan is a great tool for the commander to support his troops in the field, and one that he should be encouraged to use as opposed to beacon which should be limited in use. As the game gets more balanced and people get more adept at playing it, the costs of building multiple observatories will balance out the advantage of being able to use scan more (basically building too many, even more than one, will be inefficient and will hurt your team rather than help it because you choose to build an obs instead of say upgrading armor 1).
Random unrelated idea: Make drifters a bit cheaper and give them a larger line of sight. That way the alien comm can use them to help the players in the field by using them as scouts (to a larger degree than they are being used for that role right now). You could even add an upgrade that gives them the ability to "sense" marines through walls, making them function as miniature alien observatories.
How about delaying the game start until a marine commander has been assigned?
BTW, Marine Commander is everything but boring or "no fun" if you ask me. You should come up with a real cool commander's manual - something that people enjoy watching and that makes them want to take on the challenge.
How great would it be if when they jump out of the chair they: <ul><li>Have a cool hat. Seriously - some type of generals hat, or make them glow. Make them 10% bigger, idk - something unique.</li><li>give them 20% extra health</li><li>give +15% health to nearby marines</li><li>give +15% dmg to nearby marines</li></ul> Many different avenues for tailoring this. Have to be in chair for > 5mins, make it have a 5min cooldown, etc.
Different skills could be re searchable. Maybe they choose defensive skills, offensive skills, quick building skills, etc. Give commanders options, RTS people love tech trees, love counters.
<!--quoteo(post=1880763:date=Oct 19 2011, 09:35 PM:name=Melancor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melancor @ Oct 19 2011, 09:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1880763"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How about delaying the game start until a marine commander has been assigned?
BTW, Marine Commander is everything but boring or "no fun" if you ask me. You should come up with a real cool commander's manual - something that people enjoy watching and that makes them want to take on the challenge.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My thoughts from some other thread: -------- The current squad system just doesn't work. The commander should be able to setup squads of any 1+ players, and assign them to a hotkey. Anything else is just stupid.
Starcraft/modern RTS has a wonderful squad/binding system, why not use the same thing? Select units and hit Ctrl-1. Bam! Squad created. Select other units, hit Ctrl-2 Bam! Squad created.
-------- I'd like an RTS style loading screen at round start. Vote for who starts as commander, commander can assign squads, click start -> 5s countdown, go!
For some reason the search bar isn't working so I'll just type up this idea.
Marines should be able to choose base spawn as well. Which I'm sure that's going to be implemented.
Lerks are impossible to hit with machine guns. I think that if marines shoot their wings it should injure them. Instead of having to aim just at their skinny body. Maybe a factor like if the wings get hit too much from bullets or flames, they shouldn't be able to fly until healed.
Sorry if this idea has already been said, the search doesn't work for me.
aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited October 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1880690:date=Oct 19 2011, 12:38 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Oct 19 2011, 12:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1880690"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would say NS2 should try to build on this, instead of rejecting it and using the "buffet style" upgrade system aliens currently have. If anything, the disctinction between the different upgrade trees should be bigger, not smaller.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Agreed. Something about the current upgrade system doesn't seem as important and simple as the old NS1 system. Compare the two systems from NS1 and NS2:
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><u><b><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->NS1<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b></u><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--> <b>Movement (Hive)</b> - Team responds faster and can be more offensive with attacks. Boosted adrenaline regen when aliens are near it. Celerity - immediately noticeable. Makes you faster. Adrenaline - immediately noticeable. Lots of adrenaline. Silence - immediately noticeable. Completely silent.
<b>Defense (Hive)</b> - Aliens play more defense to hold ground and good DC placement is useful due to healing. Carapace - immediately noticeable. More armor and taking more hits. Regen - immediately noticeable. Slowly regen health. Redemption - somewhat noticeable some of the time. Seemed random in NS1.
<b>Sensory (Hive)</b> - Tactical. Has its own distinct feel from the other chambers. Made the map play different with cloaking. Cloaks aliens in its radius and SOFs marines. Scent of Fear - immediately noticeable. See marines through walls. Cloaking - immediately noticeable but takes getting used to mechanic. Focus - immediately noticeable. Attack strength is slowed but doubled in damage.
<b>Offense Chamber</b> - Static turret. Shoots ranged spikes at marines.
<u><!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->NS2<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></u> <b>Crag (HIVE)</b> - Armor upgrades. Instead of armor absorption values changing invisibly with more hives, you have a real upgrade system now. Leveled armor upgrades. No "individual" upgrades yet.
<b>Shade (HIVE)</b> - Cloaks aliens\structures in radius, but only on manual trigger from alien comm. Relies on energy. Produces permanent distortion\confusion effect for marines. Camouflage - Individual upgrade that cloaks your player.
<b>Shift (HIVE)</b> - Not in game yet.
<b>Whip</b> - Proves leveled damage upgrades. Mostly static defense. Fury ability underused or not at all. Ranged bombard ability likely. Frenzy - Individual upgrade that gives health on kill. Don't actively notice most of the time. Invisible effect. Swarm - Individual upgrade trying to be a collective upgrade. Doesn't do anything most of the time unless with group. Bile Bomb - Individual gorge structure killing ability. Other upgrades give enhancements, this just unlocks a weapon. Feels weird and out of place since hives give skulks leap so naturally gorges should get more weapons when more hives go up.
<b>Hydra</b> - Static turret. Shoots ranged spikes at marines.
It was a lot easier to understand in NS1. Certain abilities like Frenzy and Swarm are useful, but you don't really notice them like you did the upgrades in NS1. In NS1 alien upgrades were focused on <b><u>individual</u></b> enhancements that worked immediately and all the time (except redempt which was delayed). The only thing that had to be done was for a gorge to drop a certain chamber and the rest of the team would get individual upgrades that complimented their class and playstyle.
In current NS2, you have chambers that have their own static/triggered abilities that affect the <b>group</b> along with evolve-able individual upgrades for players. As more hives go up, players can get all the associated upgrades from those chambers all at once. It's like combat mode from NS1 and kills the uniqueness of a crag\shade\shift hive.
I would much rather see a "Crag Hive" be a tradeoff from a "Shade Hive". Crag, Shift, and Shade Hives should provide <b>immediately noticeable evolved individual upgrades to players</b>, but only allow one of those upgrades to be used like in NS1. Its a trade off, not a buffet. Players would have to choose what upgrade they want from that chamber depending on the situation. A crag hive for instance allows players to only evolve defense related abilities. Players would have to choose from carapace, regen, or redemption but not ALL of them at once. If a second hive finishes (and the comm chooses shade), the individual player can still get his preferred crag upgrade from the 1st hive, but now also, his preferred shade upgrade from the 2nd hive. Instead of a bucket of collected upgrades, aliens have to pick and choose which will benefit the current situation and strategies, along with what lifeform they are. As in NS1, 3 chambers of that type = full power.
The alien comm should control the chamber abilities, which are focused on affecting the group <u><b>collectively</b></u>. Individual players focus on their own upgrades that affect only their player. In my eyes, this is a good blend of the old NS1 system, and the new NS2 design.
<!--quoteo(post=1880899:date=Oct 20 2011, 08:52 PM:name=Kalabalana)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kalabalana @ Oct 20 2011, 08:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1880899"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One thing I would like to add, when evolving, do not auto burst the egg, require the user to primary attack to get out like when they spawn.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You guys should really add an ELO matchmaking type system, or at least some sort of skill designation on servers. This way you don't have to worry about how to keep the game fun for both casual and competitive players.
Chet Faliszek does a good job of explaining this in respect to CS:GO. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=eDVLYJ_HQso#t=281s" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=playe...LYJ_HQso#t=281s</a>
<!--quoteo(post=1880783:date=Oct 20 2011, 03:51 AM:name=kabab)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kabab @ Oct 20 2011, 03:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1880783"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Are we ever going to get a way as aliens to teleport between hives like NS1?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, it is most likely going to be an ability on the Shift alien structure <!--quoteo(post=1880793:date=Oct 20 2011, 05:18 AM:name=B1ackSmoke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (B1ackSmoke @ Oct 20 2011, 05:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1880793"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Lerks are impossible to hit with machine guns. I think that if marines shoot their wings it should injure them. Instead of having to aim just at their skinny body. Maybe a factor like if the wings get hit too much from bullets or flames, they shouldn't be able to fly until healed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Their wings are part of their hitbox, so hitting their wings does do damage, not just their bodies <!--quoteo(post=1880906:date=Oct 20 2011, 09:09 PM:name=Pyromaniac)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pyromaniac @ Oct 20 2011, 09:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1880906"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You guys should really add an ELO matchmaking type system, or at least some sort of skill designation on servers. This way you don't have to worry about how to keep the game fun for both casual and competitive players.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> We definitely have some kind of matchmaking service on our list, but most likely it will be done after version 1.0
<!--quoteo(post=1880937:date=Oct 21 2011, 12:23 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Oct 21 2011, 12:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1880937"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes, it is most likely going to be an ability on the Shift alien structure<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
<!--quoteo(post=1880793:date=Oct 20 2011, 08:18 AM:name=B1ackSmoke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (B1ackSmoke @ Oct 20 2011, 08:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1880793"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Lerks are impossible to hit with machine guns. I think that if marines shoot their wings it should injure them. Instead of having to aim just at their skinny body. Maybe a factor like if the wings get hit too much from bullets or flames, they shouldn't be able to fly until healed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I find it on occassion that they're quite terribly easy to hit. It's already a suicide to go flying into a marine-occupied room with the gas.
The gas sucks major balls anyways damage-wise, no reason whatsoever to use it really.
<!--quoteo(post=1880967:date=Oct 21 2011, 01:09 AM:name=Skie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Skie @ Oct 21 2011, 01:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1880967"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The gas sucks major balls anyways damage-wise, no reason whatsoever to use it really.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Untrue. If your with a pack of skulks --- gas the room, team turns on "alien vision", nom nom nom.
Err, or just gas up a room until its hard enough for the marines to see, then use your spikes.
If a marine is at a low point health-wise; the gas will finish him off...it's not so easy trying to escape a "gas chamber".
-----------------------------------
On another note: I think it'd be nice if the gas slowly-sunk towards the ground - that way marines cannot crouch under it; avoiding death.
Comments
and it would be great adding "last weapon used" key like in cs or hl
The idea about switching between different hive's eggs each time yo switch egg is great, simple ... you don't need more.
when you wan more, then add egg selection on the map (similar to mute/un-mute players on scoreboard):
- hold "button" for the map
- click left m-button to show mouse
- h-over of mouse on egg sprite will highlight egg for selection
- left click on egg will select that egg!
I hope it's simple, understandable ... uniform with other existing stuff
Be careful here. It was the same in early NS1 years. Comms will come.
Good points brought up (RTS with dumb units, just an upgrade machine) but I think a large part is because of not wanting to deal with the commander view bugs.
IMHO fix what you got and revisit. I think you go a long way if you make MACS more enjoyable, consider allowing the comm to become the MAC directly (FPS view, etc).
As far as alien comm goes. Aliens don't need a comm after a certain point. Comm by committee works (pop in build some chambers, pop out). This mechanic could be encouraged by allowing the player to spend personal res in comm. As someone else mentioned, cysts nerfed the expansion responsibilities of the comm. When I comm alien I expand, build structures/upgrade then hop out and defend until res reaches a certain point then repeat. The alien meta game should still be organic.
Multi-comm strats have not been explored.
Players have a 10% chance to spawn with a shotgun if they join the marine team before the round starts.
So not everyone gets the bonus, some people just win the lottery each time (and only if they get on the team before the round starts). Those people will not want to die, and smart team mates will want to protect them until the tech becomes available. The lore behind it would be that the strike team came prepared. :P
It's an FPS. We don't want a game of chance and probability, I'd play WoW to work those as best as I could. I want a game of skill where you have to earn the right to be good and be better than the other team, not be handed it.
I don't think this will be an issue as and when more maps come into rotation on servers. I just think people are fed up with being comm on summit all the time at the moment.
Not sure about this, shouldn't there be a benefit to having more eggs (more hives)?
Aliens can destroy IPs to slow down the reinforcement rate, why shouldn't that be possible for marines?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Adding better sentry tracers so you know what’s happening before you’re suddenly dead<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Another problem is that you can barely hear the sentry firing when it's a couple meters away from you.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Some kind of bonus for your very first life...gives incentive not to die and for tense, probing game start<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't like it, makes no sense. At game start teams should be pushing out to secure territory, not play defensive because everyone is afraid to lose their bonus.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe have alien alt abilities always triggerable. So right-click is always heal, even if you are bile-bombing. Leaping while parasiting. Doesn’t quite work for the Onos though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes! This was a good addition to NS1 (+movement) and I always wanted something similar for NS2.
Especially usefull for the small upgrades like frenzy, camo etc... (i kinda feel that ppl very often forget to evolve them)
_________________
<b>While we are at it - Alien upgrades/researches:</b>
NS1:
<b>No General Damage or Armor upgrades</b>(ok hidden for armor depending on hives => armor more effective. Read something like that somewhere)
<!--coloro:#4169E1--><span style="color:#4169E1"><!--/coloro-->Defensive<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> (Carapace, Regeneration, Redemption)
<!--coloro:#F4A460--><span style="color:#F4A460"><!--/coloro-->Movement<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> (Silence, Adrenaline, Celerity)
<!--coloro:#2E8B57--><span style="color:#2E8B57"><!--/coloro-->Sensory<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> (Sent of Fear, Focus, Cloak?)
<b>Weapons: Depending on Hives, each lifeform got additional "weapons"</b>
Every upgrade hat 3 lvls, if you have 3 chambers you get the highest lvl of the upgrade => strongest version.
You can only pick one of each category, and each chamber is linked to a hive ... so to have 2 different chambers you need to have 2 hives.
Depending on lifeform or playstyle you had different combos, that are still effective in their way. Like a silent ambush skulk (Carapace/Regeneration, Silence, Cloak/Focus) or are speedy in your face skulk (Carapace, Celerity, Sent of Fear/Focus)
____________________
NS2: (parts from the design log ideas)
<b>General: Damage(whip) and Armor(Crag) upgrades</b> - but they dont work for every lifeform??? oO
<!--coloro:#4169E1--><span style="color:#4169E1"><!--/coloro-->Crag:<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Carapace, Regeneration
<!--coloro:#F4A460--><span style="color:#F4A460"><!--/coloro-->Shift:<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Mutation
<!--coloro:#2E8B57--><span style="color:#2E8B57"><!--/coloro-->Shade:<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Camo
<!--coloro:#8B0000--><span style="color:#8B0000"><!--/coloro-->Whip<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->: Frenzy, Swarm, Something
<!--coloro:#556B2F--><span style="color:#556B2F"><!--/coloro-->Infestation Chamber<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->?: Celerity, Infectious Blood
<b>Weapons: In addition there are upgrades for other "weapons" - like bilebomb for gorge.</b>
___________________
Its a complete mess compared to ns1.
There is no specialization on playstyle lifeform or situation anymore.
=> the upgrades cant be as strong or are only effective in certain situation - e.g. Celerity should only work on infestation oO...
So... whats the plan??? - with every upgrade and weapon - i can/have to upgrade 20 different things?
____________
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->• Lerk is too fast (he can be anywhere on the map so fast)
<!--coloro:#FFFACD--><span style="color:#FFFACD"><!--/coloro-->Not sure, needs some tests how it would play if slower...<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
• Quieter footsteps when wall-walking (to encourage use of it)
<!--coloro:#FFFACD--><span style="color:#FFFACD"><!--/coloro-->Its good as it is if you ask me...<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
• ARCs need mucho help
<!--coloro:#FFFACD--><span style="color:#FFFACD"><!--/coloro-->Made a post in getsatisfaction - i agree<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
• Need to see the latest upgrades, esp. as they are researched
<!--coloro:#FFFACD--><span style="color:#FFFACD"><!--/coloro-->See if upgrades available in Hud, like it was in ns1...?<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
• Need to fix voice volume being low for some people
<!--coloro:#FFFACD--><span style="color:#FFFACD"><!--/coloro-->Need sliders for input and output of voice + some db boosters (look how its done in mumble or teamspeak)<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
• Some kind of bonus for your very first life...gives incentive not to die and for tense, probing game start
<!--coloro:#FFFACD--><span style="color:#FFFACD"><!--/coloro-->Sounds very interessting!<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
• Add some way to attract players to Commander...medals?
<!--coloro:#FFFACD--><span style="color:#FFFACD"><!--/coloro-->Details?<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
• Not enough damage feedback in general (you’re suddenly dead).
<!--coloro:#FFFACD--><span style="color:#FFFACD"><!--/coloro-->You could add a low/no armor alert - since with low armor/hp alone you are pretty much already in the near dead/instakill zone for most lifeforms<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
• Alien alerts (“Your hive is under attackâ€) shouldn’t be affected by low-health DSP
<!--coloro:#FFFACD--><span style="color:#FFFACD"><!--/coloro-->In general alerts should be improved, better hive sight and "global waypoints" would be cool - currently i only get overview with my minimap(especially in public matches) or commander(if no voice useless)<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's fine as he is but I would like to see a flight speed increase when dive bombing
•Quieter footsteps when wall-walking (to encourage use of it)
Cant even hear them when they are running untill they are right behind me
•ARCs need mucho help
I dont see a issue with the state they are in now, build 3 profit
•Need to see the latest upgrades, esp. as they are researched
Would be nice to see our current upgrades on the screen but maybe not the reasearching ones
•Need to fix voice volume being low for some people
Yes this is a issue atm when a comm is giving orders and noone can hear him
•Some kind of bonus for your very first life...gives incentive not to die and for tense, probing game start
I don't think this is needed aliens have enough advatanges early on and this could cause more early wins for them
•Add some way to attract players to Commander...medals?
A easy tutorial covering the basics and tool tips
•Not enough damage feedback in general (you’re suddenly dead).
I know how I'm dying all the time (apart from looking at the kill feed)
•Alien alerts (“Your hive is under attackâ€) shouldn’t be affected by low-health DSP
Should be played if its still being attacked over a long period
2 skulks can spawn every 6 seconds. 1 egg spawns every 6 seconds.
That way if you kill the skulks fast enough you can limit the spawns to single skulks rather than dual spawns. If you kill 4 skulks it would take 12 seconds for them all to respawn again and it would take 24 seconds for the eggs to be replaced. Perhaps the egg spawn time is too fast though and the hives would always be full of eggs, idk, it would need to be tested.
I think the only other way is to make the egg spawn rate dynamic based on the number of eggs (i.e. the more eggs at a hive the slower the next egg takes to spawn). Since if you make the egg spawn rate too long compared to the spawn time then you get this situation where the aliens spawn time increases dramatically when the eggs run out and players can be waiting for 40+ seconds just to spawn.
I definitely think there should be a spawn cue though, similar to the marine IPs.
Aliens dont have a oh ###### button(distress), so if you want to make the spawn queue system similar to marines - aliens need this too.
Aliens dont have a oh ###### button(distress), so if you want to make the spawn queue system similar to marines - aliens need this too.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah maybe they could have an ability to replace all the eggs or spawn all at once for a certain amount of tres. Again I think you really need to play with these things in-game to see what works.
On the subject of distress beacon, I think that it should cost tres to use. At the moment the marines can build multiple observatories in their base and have infinite beacon. I also think that if you build more than 1 obs that they should all share the same energy pool, so that you can't build more to allow you to scan more often. I think scan is a really powerful ability and I like the fact that it can only be used a few times and you need to conserve energy. With multiple obs the commander can just spam scans freely and you don't need to time it well or use it intelligently.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=114896" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=114896</a>
Don't you think the "sudden death" problems ("Adding better sentry tracers so you know what’s happening before you’re suddenly dead" "Not enough damage feedback in general (you’re suddenly dead). This may be a server tick rate issue, not sure.") are related to it ? Like the instant you lose you armor you die very fast.
It's an FPS. We don't want a game of chance and probability, I'd play WoW to work those as best as I could. I want a game of skill where you have to earn the right to be good and be better than the other team, not be handed it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
On the FPS side, TF2 has crits, L4D has the Tank lottery. On the RTS side, the Command & Conquer games have crates filled with random goodies. Minor randomisation in either genre is hardly an original idea.
In any case, the thinking was:
<ul><li>A similar bonus for each team</li><li>Only people who join a team before round start are eligible for a bonus (to discourage team-stacking)</li><li>The bonus is quickly made irrelevant by teching up</li><li>Only a few people get the bonus each time so that bonus can be meaningful enough to make a difference without overpowering an entire team</li><li>This means the bonus also acts as an opportunity: When it's your turn, you really don't want to screw it up.</li><li>The reasoning behind shotguns specifically is that they are dropped on death and others marines can pick it up</li></ul>
I'm not too concerned about what the bonus itself actually <i>is</i>, I'm more interesting in the mechanics behind it.
<!--quoteo(post=1880574:date=Oct 19 2011, 01:51 AM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Oct 19 2011, 01:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1880574"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[*]Adding minimum respawn time to aliens
[*]Adjusting alien egg spawn times (making it fast when you have few eggs and slowing down when you have more)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The first is an incredibly important fix at the moment. The second seems to contradict the purpose of the first and is unintuitive. IMO the marines should have the option to either attack the hive or delay attacking the hive to hurt the ability for aliens to respawn. This also makes it easier to end games that are, in reality, lost earlier rather than dragging them out.
<!--quoteo(post=1880574:date=Oct 19 2011, 01:51 AM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Oct 19 2011, 01:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1880574"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[*]Add some way to attract players to Commander...medals?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A (very simple) system that tracks your wins and losses, and perhaps other statistics related to commanding, would be phenomenal. Could be connected to achievements, but I don't know if that's necessary.
<!--quoteo(post=1880574:date=Oct 19 2011, 01:51 AM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Oct 19 2011, 01:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1880574"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[*]Quieter footsteps when wall-walking (to encourage use of it)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aliens are already too difficult to hear. It makes more sense to give aliens the choice to upgrade the ability to be silent (at the omission of other beneficial upgrades, having to consider the pros and cons of choosing an upgrade is generally a good thing).
<!--quoteo(post=1880574:date=Oct 19 2011, 01:51 AM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Oct 19 2011, 01:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1880574"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[*]Energy regeneration faster when still so you don’t run out when doing repetitive tasks like biting nodes, healing players<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seems like a zero sum game. If the rate of which aliens kill structures is already balanced, you would have to increase structure health to make up for aliens not having to take pauses while taking down structures to regain energy. If the amount of time it takes to kill an rt stays the same, there's little difference between sitting at the rt waiting for energy to recharge and sitting at the rt while biting it. The current system might actually be better: while you are waiting for energy to recharge you can at least do other things (like scout for marines coming to save the rt) whereas with a constant stream of energy you would have to stay at the rt biting it constantly until it goes down.
<!--quoteo(post=1880662:date=Oct 19 2011, 02:30 PM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Oct 19 2011, 02:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1880662"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Its a complete mess compared to ns1.
There is no specialization on playstyle lifeform or situation anymore.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This seems to be a general problem with the game unfortunately. It might be a necessary part of game development, what do I know, but it seems like NS2 lacks direction in some ways. There's all sorts of wild ideas flying around (whips throwing back grenades anyone? Or even the grenade launcher being an attachment to the rifle in the first place?), some being put into the game, seemingly without there being much thought given to how these ideas are actually going to affect the rest of the game or if they even synergize with what's already in the game. There seems to be a lot of "lets try x to fix y" without fully considering what other implications x might have on the rest of the game. This may sound a bit harsh, but it's just the impression I get as an outside observer playing the game.
Specifically about the alien upgrade system; NS1 was beautiful in that regard. You had three different choices, all mutually exclusive at the start of the game, and your choice very much dictated not only how the game played out but also what skills your players would have to utilize to win the round. Choosing sensory chamber first made the biggest difference of course, with SC first rounds almost feeling like an entirely different game than DC or MC first games. Even choosing DC or MC had big ramifications however. If you went MC first, your Lerk had a lot more leeway in how he would play the game and how he supported the rest of the team and hive assaults would play out completely different depending on your chamber choice. Even then there were smaller choices within each selection, with the personal upgrades you chose depending on each chamber, also differentiating how you would play using a certain chamber. All this, yet the system was actually very simple in construction and easy to learn and understand.
I would say NS2 should try to build on this, instead of rejecting it and using the "buffet style" upgrade system aliens currently have. If anything, the disctinction between the different upgrade trees should be bigger, not smaller.
<!--quoteo(post=1880672:date=Oct 19 2011, 03:23 PM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Oct 19 2011, 03:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1880672"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->@wilson
Aliens dont have a oh ###### button(distress), so if you want to make the spawn queue system similar to marines - aliens need this too.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aliens didn't need it in NS1, I can't see any changes made to NS2 so far that makes any difference in that regard.
<!--quoteo(post=1880633:date=Oct 19 2011, 10:27 AM:name=Wilson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wilson @ Oct 19 2011, 10:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1880633"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think lerk speed is okay as long as they are made really bad against buildings. The speed only seems a problem to me when lerks can constantly harass the marine buildings and the marines are unable to defend them fast enough. If the lerks didn't do much damage towards buildings then they would only be a nuisance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not a fan of this current trend of putting arbitrary limits on how certain classes do damage. If the weapons are designed correctly, you don't need to put invisible modifiers on how certain attacks deal damage against different types of targets. Furthermore, the more you specilize classes in this way, the more you delegate certain boring tasks on the remaining classes. Taking down structures is not a fun gameplay activity -- it's something you do because it's necessary for the strategic part of the game. If you limit the damage certain classes do against structures too much, you're basically left with two classes (the skulk and the gorge, but for most of the game simply the skulk since the gorge only gets bilebomb at hive 2 and even then is very vulnerable while bilebombing) doing all the boring tasks while the other classes get to have all the fun. Raise your hand if you want to play skulk in this scenario?
<!--quoteo(post=1880673:date=Oct 19 2011, 03:40 PM:name=Wilson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wilson @ Oct 19 2011, 03:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1880673"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->On the subject of distress beacon, I think that it should cost tres to use. At the moment the marines can build multiple observatories in their base and have infinite beacon. I also think that if you build more than 1 obs that they should all share the same energy pool, so that you can't build more to allow you to scan more often. I think scan is a really powerful ability and I like the fact that it can only be used a few times and you need to conserve energy. With multiple obs the commander can just spam scans freely and you don't need to time it well or use it intelligently.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree that beacon should cost tres, right now you can just spam it without really considering any consequences. Beacon is an extremely powerful tool and should be priced as such. The other option would be to make it cost a lot more energy for each beacon.
I don't think scans should cost tres or that observatories should share the same energy pool. For one that would negate a lot of the purpose behind building multiple observatories, but mainly I think scan is a great tool for the commander to support his troops in the field, and one that he should be encouraged to use as opposed to beacon which should be limited in use. As the game gets more balanced and people get more adept at playing it, the costs of building multiple observatories will balance out the advantage of being able to use scan more (basically building too many, even more than one, will be inefficient and will hurt your team rather than help it because you choose to build an obs instead of say upgrading armor 1).
Random unrelated idea: Make drifters a bit cheaper and give them a larger line of sight. That way the alien comm can use them to help the players in the field by using them as scouts (to a larger degree than they are being used for that role right now). You could even add an upgrade that gives them the ability to "sense" marines through walls, making them function as miniature alien observatories.
BTW, Marine Commander is everything but boring or "no fun" if you ask me. You should come up with a real cool commander's manual - something that people enjoy watching and that makes them want to take on the challenge.
How great would it be if when they jump out of the chair they:
<ul><li>Have a cool hat. Seriously - some type of generals hat, or make them glow. Make them 10% bigger, idk - something unique.</li><li>give them 20% extra health</li><li>give +15% health to nearby marines</li><li>give +15% dmg to nearby marines</li></ul>
Many different avenues for tailoring this.
Have to be in chair for > 5mins, make it have a 5min cooldown, etc.
Different skills could be re searchable. Maybe they choose defensive skills, offensive skills, quick building skills, etc. Give commanders options, RTS people love tech trees, love counters.
<!--quoteo(post=1880763:date=Oct 19 2011, 09:35 PM:name=Melancor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melancor @ Oct 19 2011, 09:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1880763"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How about delaying the game start until a marine commander has been assigned?
BTW, Marine Commander is everything but boring or "no fun" if you ask me. You should come up with a real cool commander's manual - something that people enjoy watching and that makes them want to take on the challenge.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My thoughts from some other thread:
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The current squad system just doesn't work.
The commander should be able to setup squads of any 1+ players, and assign them to a hotkey. Anything else is just stupid.
Starcraft/modern RTS has a wonderful squad/binding system, why not use the same thing?
Select units and hit Ctrl-1. Bam! Squad created.
Select other units, hit Ctrl-2 Bam! Squad created.
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I'd like an RTS style loading screen at round start.
Vote for who starts as commander, commander can assign squads, click start -> 5s countdown, go!
Marines should be able to choose base spawn as well. Which I'm sure that's going to be implemented.
Lerks are impossible to hit with machine guns. I think that if marines shoot their wings it should injure them. Instead of having to aim
just at their skinny body. Maybe a factor like if the wings get hit too much from bullets or flames, they shouldn't be able to fly until healed.
Sorry if this idea has already been said, the search doesn't work for me.
-B1ackSmoke
Agreed. Something about the current upgrade system doesn't seem as important and simple as the old NS1 system. Compare the two systems from NS1 and NS2:
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><u><b><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->NS1<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b></u><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<b>Movement (Hive)</b> - Team responds faster and can be more offensive with attacks. Boosted adrenaline regen when aliens are near it.
Celerity - immediately noticeable. Makes you faster.
Adrenaline - immediately noticeable. Lots of adrenaline.
Silence - immediately noticeable. Completely silent.
<b>Defense (Hive)</b> - Aliens play more defense to hold ground and good DC placement is useful due to healing.
Carapace - immediately noticeable. More armor and taking more hits.
Regen - immediately noticeable. Slowly regen health.
Redemption - somewhat noticeable some of the time. Seemed random in NS1.
<b>Sensory (Hive)</b> - Tactical. Has its own distinct feel from the other chambers. Made the map play different with cloaking. Cloaks aliens in its radius and SOFs marines.
Scent of Fear - immediately noticeable. See marines through walls.
Cloaking - immediately noticeable but takes getting used to mechanic.
Focus - immediately noticeable. Attack strength is slowed but doubled in damage.
<b>Offense Chamber</b> - Static turret. Shoots ranged spikes at marines.
<u><!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->NS2<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></u>
<b>Crag (HIVE)</b> - Armor upgrades. Instead of armor absorption values changing invisibly with more hives, you have a real upgrade system now. Leveled armor upgrades.
No "individual" upgrades yet.
<b>Shade (HIVE)</b> - Cloaks aliens\structures in radius, but only on manual trigger from alien comm. Relies on energy. Produces permanent distortion\confusion effect for marines.
Camouflage - Individual upgrade that cloaks your player.
<b>Shift (HIVE)</b> - Not in game yet.
<b>Whip</b> - Proves leveled damage upgrades. Mostly static defense. Fury ability underused or not at all. Ranged bombard ability likely.
Frenzy - Individual upgrade that gives health on kill. Don't actively notice most of the time. Invisible effect.
Swarm - Individual upgrade trying to be a collective upgrade. Doesn't do anything most of the time unless with group.
Bile Bomb - Individual gorge structure killing ability. Other upgrades give enhancements, this just unlocks a weapon. Feels weird and out of place since hives give skulks leap so naturally gorges should get more weapons when more hives go up.
<b>Hydra</b> - Static turret. Shoots ranged spikes at marines.
It was a lot easier to understand in NS1. Certain abilities like Frenzy and Swarm are useful, but you don't really notice them like you did the upgrades in NS1. In NS1 alien upgrades were focused on <b><u>individual</u></b> enhancements that worked immediately and all the time (except redempt which was delayed). The only thing that had to be done was for a gorge to drop a certain chamber and the rest of the team would get individual upgrades that complimented their class and playstyle.
In current NS2, you have chambers that have their own static/triggered abilities that affect the <b>group</b> along with evolve-able individual upgrades for players. As more hives go up, players can get all the associated upgrades from those chambers all at once. It's like combat mode from NS1 and kills the uniqueness of a crag\shade\shift hive.
I would much rather see a "Crag Hive" be a tradeoff from a "Shade Hive". Crag, Shift, and Shade Hives should provide <b>immediately noticeable evolved individual upgrades to players</b>, but only allow one of those upgrades to be used like in NS1. Its a trade off, not a buffet. Players would have to choose what upgrade they want from that chamber depending on the situation. A crag hive for instance allows players to only evolve defense related abilities. Players would have to choose from carapace, regen, or redemption but not ALL of them at once. If a second hive finishes (and the comm chooses shade), the individual player can still get his preferred crag upgrade from the 1st hive, but now also, his preferred shade upgrade from the 2nd hive. Instead of a bucket of collected upgrades, aliens have to pick and choose which will benefit the current situation and strategies, along with what lifeform they are. As in NS1, 3 chambers of that type = full power.
The alien comm should control the chamber abilities, which are focused on affecting the group <u><b>collectively</b></u>. Individual players focus on their own upgrades that affect only their player. In my eyes, this is a good blend of the old NS1 system, and the new NS2 design.
Please don't do this.
+1
Chet Faliszek does a good job of explaining this in respect to CS:GO.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=eDVLYJ_HQso#t=281s" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=playe...LYJ_HQso#t=281s</a>
Yes, it is most likely going to be an ability on the Shift alien structure
<!--quoteo(post=1880793:date=Oct 20 2011, 05:18 AM:name=B1ackSmoke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (B1ackSmoke @ Oct 20 2011, 05:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1880793"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Lerks are impossible to hit with machine guns. I think that if marines shoot their wings it should injure them. Instead of having to aim
just at their skinny body. Maybe a factor like if the wings get hit too much from bullets or flames, they shouldn't be able to fly until healed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Their wings are part of their hitbox, so hitting their wings does do damage, not just their bodies
<!--quoteo(post=1880906:date=Oct 20 2011, 09:09 PM:name=Pyromaniac)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pyromaniac @ Oct 20 2011, 09:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1880906"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You guys should really add an ELO matchmaking type system, or at least some sort of skill designation on servers. This way you don't have to worry about how to keep the game fun for both casual and competitive players.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We definitely have some kind of matchmaking service on our list, but most likely it will be done after version 1.0
--Cory
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
just at their skinny body. Maybe a factor like if the wings get hit too much from bullets or flames, they shouldn't be able to fly until healed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I find it on occassion that they're quite terribly easy to hit. It's already a suicide to go flying into a marine-occupied room with the gas.
The gas sucks major balls anyways damage-wise, no reason whatsoever to use it really.
Untrue. If your with a pack of skulks --- gas the room, team turns on "alien vision", nom nom nom.
Err, or just gas up a room until its hard enough for the marines to see, then use your spikes.
If a marine is at a low point health-wise; the gas will finish him off...it's not so easy trying to escape a "gas chamber".
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On another note: I think it'd be nice if the gas slowly-sunk towards the ground - that way marines cannot crouch under it; avoiding death.