Man, I should hang around the mapping area of the forums more often! An excellent first impression!
I think the hanging server idea is absolutely brilliant, and your curvyness is genius, especially with the windows. The spiral reactor thing just invites you to stop and stare...
The new server room is nice, though I agree it does need something more. It doesn't seem to block an Onos very well ATM, as you originally said it was supposed to. Maybe fixing that will fix the issue with the new room.
-1 to dubstep room, wouldn't want to soil this beauty with the sound of an electric razor being dropped in the toilet. A great idea for a silly, fun map though.
+30 for the map, an incredible talent you have. 30 for killing a Hive :P
Can't say I'm at all surprised that it's very difficult to work with such complex geometry. God help you when it comes to balance, that is once you've laid down all this nice stuff. I'm sure you'll be fine, though, judging by the hard work and dedication shown thus far.
cant wait for you to even release a video of the map but how much longer before you think you will release a playable version of the map for us to test?
I haven't stopped making this map, I've just been busy and preoccupied with BF3 and Skyrim as of the last month or so. There will be some solid hours spent crunching on this map so you everyone can see more of the map.
When working on the middle tech room I bit off more than I chew and stalled on the map for while as I wanted to get a teaser video out. I still know exactly what its going to look like, but I need to pace this section or my brain will go to mush again.
<!--quoteo(post=1885888:date=Nov 21 2011, 02:15 AM:name=Remedy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Remedy @ Nov 21 2011, 02:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885888"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hey guys it's been a while!
I haven't stopped making this map, I've just been busy and preoccupied with BF3 and Skyrim as of the last month or so. There will be some solid hours spent crunching on this map so you everyone can see more of the map.
When working on the middle tech room I bit off more than I chew and stalled on the map for while as I wanted to get a teaser video out. I still know exactly what its going to look like, but I need to pace this section or my brain will go to mush again.
I'll keep you guys posted.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't burn yourself out designing the map, take your time. Nothing worse than getting half way through developing a level/area only to get yourself a bad case of mappers block.
But to be fair those two games are worth putting the map on hold for ;).
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
edited November 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1885888:date=Nov 20 2011, 08:15 PM:name=Remedy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Remedy @ Nov 20 2011, 08:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885888"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hey guys it's been a while!
I haven't stopped making this map, I've just been busy and preoccupied with BF3 and Skyrim as of the last month or so. There will be some solid hours spent crunching on this map so you everyone can see more of the map.
When working on the middle tech room I bit off more than I chew and stalled on the map for while as I wanted to get a teaser video out. I still know exactly what its going to look like, but I need to pace this section or my brain will go to mush again.
I'll keep you guys posted.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We understand, and we're all still very excited. Pace yourself. Take breaks. You've got a great thing going, just enjoy it and repeat what is working.
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->[DISCLAIMER: Clicking on this thread for new screenshots may result in an imminent let down]<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--quoteo(post=1888321:date=Dec 5 2011, 02:50 AM:name=PersianImm0rtal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PersianImm0rtal @ Dec 5 2011, 02:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888321"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->any update?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm grey-boxing off the rest of the map to do a playtest this week so after then I'll get back to detailing and screenshots.
I might leave lots of screenshots under the christmas tree.
endarJoin Date: 2010-07-27Member: 73256Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1888450:date=Dec 5 2011, 02:13 PM:name=Remedy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Remedy @ Dec 5 2011, 02:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888450"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->[DISCLAIMER: Clicking on this thread for new screenshots may result in an imminent let down]<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hi. I'd like to point out that the preceding disclaimer was inappropriately placed and failed its primary purpose.
I'm considering moving the whole middle section of map down so that the middle tech room sits more between of the furthest left and right tech rooms. This also means I can move the top two tech rooms and the double resource room closer to the remaining map.
I'll be working on the further greybox detailing then hopefully when I'm satisfied I'll add in all the bells and whistles to the rooms.
I know its sparse at this point, but any ideas or suggestions on adding or removing pathways would be appreciated.
I think there is too little access through the middle of the map. Both sides are so far cut off.
EDIT:
Adding on to that, the teams are not symmetrical and I don't feel a symmetric layout would work well. I feel your nodes aren't spaced as evenly and you need to make the layout a bit more together than as spaced out as it is. Here's my quick take on it.
Yellow = Deleted. Red = new route. Blue = Put the node here instead in a room.
I hope that gives you an idea or two, even if you don't go with all my ideas.
EDIT2: On reflection, on the right hand side, I might even delete that corridor northwards a bit further to make 2 access instead of 3 access routes from that double-core-thing at the top. And you might even expand the furthest area south to making that a tech point too for balancing?
pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
edited December 2011
I think the layout is interesting. I don't agree with the remarks about long hallways or lack of rooms. It just appears that way from the greybox overview; I've got the same comments on early summit overviews.
I like that the current layout helps both teams to keep their spawns clean; it's more linear and mostly about defending the res locations and making a choice regarding the expansion and pressure on the enemy. I think the greyboxed outer tech expansions are too small, probably leading to the impression that there are long hallways and a lack of rooms. I'd also like to see res nodes at the outer expansions to adress various issues other maps have already been through. The middle tech point should be viable as 2nd hive location, so aliens can make the choice between defensive or aggressive expansion coupled with the according pressure on marines. Moving it down a little might really help and in general there is a lot that can be done with vents later on to adjust balance. It should be similar easy to defend as the outer alien expansion location or it'll suffer the Heliport-fate. The benefit of the middle tech point is easier and faster access to most parts of the map and who ever has it should be able to block easy passage of enemy units. I think it should also give faster access not only to the outer expansions, but to the outer res node locations aswell for different aggressive strategies, hence my suggestion for the layout below: <img src="http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/5770/nonamelayout.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Benefit of moved down middle techpoint: -Easier control over a couple of single res node locations -Faster access to enemy outposts/base
Benefit of outer tech point (with added res node): -Easier to defend and/or more time to spot an incoming attack -Faster access to double-res location
<!--coloro:#aadd00--><span style="color:#aadd00"><!--/coloro-->I hadn't checked in on this in some time, the map looking lovely so far. Though it might be a bit too much hallway, maybe. I can't wait to see this fully fleshed out either way.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Hey everyone with current situation of this map I've taken into consideration that it would be better to stop making this map and do a NS1 remake.
It has come to my attention that considering so many factors of game-play to just a single room let alone a whole map is going to hinder this map from ever being finished. Not to mention that on top of game-play I also have really strict observation of creative aspects, which with these two factors this map would take a long time to finish. I've always been really optimistic about this layout and really wanted to do something different, but it's become to much a risk.
I really like this map and have at times enjoyed working on it, but at this point its to great a risk to commit to finishing this map and having the possibility of having to overhaul the map to fix and change the game-play.
You may wonder why I would stop making this map after all the work done and drop it to make another map from scratch. The truth is doing a remake will allow me to copy the layout and game-play and work off from there. This will save me the time I normally spend making a room, but ultimately end up deleting and changing numerous times.
I'll be deciding on what NS1 map to remake and go from there, though you wont see the last of ns2_noname as I'lll be transferring my work into the remake wherever I can.
Many thanks to those who have stuck with this map and helped encourage me to continue with positive feedback.
endarJoin Date: 2010-07-27Member: 73256Members, Squad Five Blue
I don't think he intends a carbon copy replica of an NS1 map. It's a great baseline to start with as you don't need to do the initial planning, just reworking for balance. I suppose we will find out when FM releases veil what the NS1 maps are like.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
edited January 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1892202:date=Dec 31 2011, 06:46 AM:name=PersianImm0rtal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PersianImm0rtal @ Dec 31 2011, 06:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1892202"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think your decision is really dumb, because NS1 maps would never work in NS2, because the gameplay is completely different.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Uhm, your talking nonsense here. It's different, but not THAT much different. NS1 maps would work just as great in NS2 as they did in NS1. In fact, they would work alot better than the current summit. Which is a total mess with random spawns, and totally ruins the map in my opinion. Whenever teams get spawn locations close to eachother, the game becomes more of a team deathmatch. A distance requirement could be done, but it would require heavy refactoring on the map layout and vents. And it would also eliminate the "random" of random spawns, you would know where your enemy is. <!--quoteo(post=1892204:date=Dec 31 2011, 07:05 AM:name=PersianImm0rtal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PersianImm0rtal @ Dec 31 2011, 07:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1892204"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, NS1 Maps has lots of long narrow hallways, and UWE is specifically trying to avoid that kind of map.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Long narrow hallways make chokepoints, that's probably reason #1 why they don't want that.
As for the remake, I would love to see origin, tanith or eclipse :P
pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
I hear you man. I think you can get through with it, but currently it's certainly more work to get a map somewhere than let's say in a year with an improved editor and more established gameplay. Considering all the changes I made to Summit and all the changes that were and are going to be made to Tram it's really hard to commit to a certain layout, especially with a map built like yours.
I've thought about doing a remake myself aswell, even got the permission from the creator of an NS1 map, but I'm not sure wether 4 techpoint maps work well in NS2, considering that the offical maps all go for 5-6 techpoints. There is a limit to how much you can stretch gameplay and balance. The question is how far you can go with adapting the ns1 map to ns2 and still call it a proper remake.
I understand though, I always thought the layout you had chosen wouldn't be great for gameplay but I enjoyed keeping up with the map since it looked so good. I'm kinda bummed that you're doing a remake though. I guess it's the safe option.
Comments
Really like the whole roundness everything has.
Keep up the good work!
Cheers
I think the hanging server idea is absolutely brilliant, and your curvyness is genius, especially with the windows. The spiral reactor thing just invites you to stop and stare...
The new server room is nice, though I agree it does need something more. It doesn't seem to block an Onos very well ATM, as you originally said it was supposed to. Maybe fixing that will fix the issue with the new room.
-1 to dubstep room, wouldn't want to soil this beauty with the sound of an electric razor being dropped in the toilet. A great idea for a silly, fun map though.
+30 for the map, an incredible talent you have. 30 for killing a Hive :P
Can't say I'm at all surprised that it's very difficult to work with such complex geometry. God help you when it comes to balance, that is once you've laid down all this nice stuff. I'm sure you'll be fine, though, judging by the hard work and dedication shown thus far.
Keep it up, can't wait for the video.
This map and descent are the two most original maps I've seen. Can't wait to play on it.
I haven't stopped making this map, I've just been busy and preoccupied with BF3 and Skyrim as of the last month or so.
There will be some solid hours spent crunching on this map so you everyone can see more of the map.
When working on the middle tech room I bit off more than I chew and stalled on the map for while as I wanted to get a teaser video out.
I still know exactly what its going to look like, but I need to pace this section or my brain will go to mush again.
I'll keep you guys posted.
I haven't stopped making this map, I've just been busy and preoccupied with BF3 and Skyrim as of the last month or so.
There will be some solid hours spent crunching on this map so you everyone can see more of the map.
When working on the middle tech room I bit off more than I chew and stalled on the map for while as I wanted to get a teaser video out.
I still know exactly what its going to look like, but I need to pace this section or my brain will go to mush again.
I'll keep you guys posted.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't burn yourself out designing the map, take your time. Nothing worse than getting half way through developing a level/area only to get yourself a bad case of mappers block.
But to be fair those two games are worth putting the map on hold for ;).
I haven't stopped making this map, I've just been busy and preoccupied with BF3 and Skyrim as of the last month or so.
There will be some solid hours spent crunching on this map so you everyone can see more of the map.
When working on the middle tech room I bit off more than I chew and stalled on the map for while as I wanted to get a teaser video out.
I still know exactly what its going to look like, but I need to pace this section or my brain will go to mush again.
I'll keep you guys posted.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We understand, and we're all still very excited. Pace yourself. Take breaks. You've got a great thing going, just enjoy it and repeat what is working.
Here's to progress :D
<!--quoteo(post=1888321:date=Dec 5 2011, 02:50 AM:name=PersianImm0rtal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PersianImm0rtal @ Dec 5 2011, 02:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888321"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->any update?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm grey-boxing off the rest of the map to do a playtest this week so after then I'll get back to detailing and screenshots.
I might leave lots of screenshots under the christmas tree.
Hi. I'd like to point out that the preceding disclaimer was inappropriately placed and failed its primary purpose.
Map assets:
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->5 TECH POINTS<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->10 RESOURCE POINTS<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<a href="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/802/2011120600002.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/5967/2011120600002.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
I'm considering moving the whole middle section of map down so that the middle tech room sits more between of the furthest left and right tech rooms.
This also means I can move the top two tech rooms and the double resource room closer to the remaining map.
I'll be working on the further greybox detailing then hopefully when I'm satisfied I'll add in all the bells and whistles to the rooms.
I know its sparse at this point, but any ideas or suggestions on adding or removing pathways would be appreciated.
EDIT:
Adding on to that, the teams are not symmetrical and I don't feel a symmetric layout would work well. I feel your nodes aren't spaced as evenly and you need to make the layout a bit more together than as spaced out as it is. Here's my quick take on it.
Yellow = Deleted.
Red = new route.
Blue = Put the node here instead in a room.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/oWoKc.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I hope that gives you an idea or two, even if you don't go with all my ideas.
EDIT2: On reflection, on the right hand side, I might even delete that corridor northwards a bit further to make 2 access instead of 3 access routes from that double-core-thing at the top. And you might even expand the furthest area south to making that a tech point too for balancing?
I don't agree with the remarks about long hallways or lack of rooms.
It just appears that way from the greybox overview; I've got the same comments on early summit overviews.
I like that the current layout helps both teams to keep their spawns clean; it's more linear and mostly about defending the res locations and making a choice regarding the expansion and pressure on the enemy.
I think the greyboxed outer tech expansions are too small, probably leading to the impression that there are long hallways and a lack of rooms. I'd also like to see res nodes at the outer expansions to adress various issues other maps have already been through.
The middle tech point should be viable as 2nd hive location, so aliens can make the choice between defensive or aggressive expansion coupled with the according pressure on marines.
Moving it down a little might really help and in general there is a lot that can be done with vents later on to adjust balance. It should be similar easy to defend as the outer alien expansion location or it'll suffer the Heliport-fate.
The benefit of the middle tech point is easier and faster access to most parts of the map and who ever has it should be able to block easy passage of enemy units. I think it should also give faster access not only to the outer expansions, but to the outer res node locations aswell for different aggressive strategies, hence my suggestion for the layout below:
<img src="http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/5770/nonamelayout.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Benefit of moved down middle techpoint:
-Easier control over a couple of single res node locations
-Faster access to enemy outposts/base
Benefit of outer tech point (with added res node):
-Easier to defend and/or more time to spot an incoming attack
-Faster access to double-res location
It has come to my attention that considering so many factors of game-play to just a single room let alone a whole map is going to hinder this map from ever being finished.
Not to mention that on top of game-play I also have really strict observation of creative aspects, which with these two factors this map would take a long time to finish.
I've always been really optimistic about this layout and really wanted to do something different, but it's become to much a risk.
I really like this map and have at times enjoyed working on it, but at this point its to great a risk to commit to finishing this map and having the possibility of having to overhaul the map to fix and change the game-play.
You may wonder why I would stop making this map after all the work done and drop it to make another map from scratch. The truth is doing a remake will allow me to copy the layout and game-play and work off from there. This will save me the time I normally spend making a room, but ultimately end up deleting and changing numerous times.
I'll be deciding on what NS1 map to remake and go from there, though you wont see the last of ns2_noname as I'lll be transferring my work into the remake wherever I can.
Many thanks to those who have stuck with this map and helped encourage me to continue with positive feedback.
Uhm, your talking nonsense here.
It's different, but not THAT much different. NS1 maps would work just as great in NS2 as they did in NS1.
In fact, they would work alot better than the current summit.
Which is a total mess with random spawns, and totally ruins the map in my opinion.
Whenever teams get spawn locations close to eachother, the game becomes more of a team deathmatch.
A distance requirement could be done, but it would require heavy refactoring on the map layout and vents.
And it would also eliminate the "random" of random spawns, you would know where your enemy is.
<!--quoteo(post=1892204:date=Dec 31 2011, 07:05 AM:name=PersianImm0rtal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PersianImm0rtal @ Dec 31 2011, 07:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1892204"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, NS1 Maps has lots of long narrow hallways, and UWE is specifically trying to avoid that kind of map.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Long narrow hallways make chokepoints, that's probably reason #1 why they don't want that.
As for the remake, I would love to see origin, tanith or eclipse :P
Considering all the changes I made to Summit and all the changes that were and are going to be made to Tram it's really hard to commit to a certain layout, especially with a map built like yours.
I've thought about doing a remake myself aswell, even got the permission from the creator of an NS1 map, but I'm not sure wether 4 techpoint maps work well in NS2, considering that the offical maps all go for 5-6 techpoints. There is a limit to how much you can stretch gameplay and balance.
The question is how far you can go with adapting the ns1 map to ns2 and still call it a proper remake.
I understand though, I always thought the layout you had chosen wouldn't be great for gameplay but I enjoyed keeping up with the map since it looked so good. I'm kinda bummed that you're doing a remake though. I guess it's the safe option.