Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Nah I tried with it on or off, nothing noticeable in terms of FPS change. I didn't keep my eye on the cores though, might have to pop up Taskmanager to have a gander at the 2 cores and the usage :)
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited August 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1871583:date=Aug 27 2011, 11:45 PM:name=Lemming Jesus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lemming Jesus @ Aug 27 2011, 11:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1871583"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Went from around 30 frames to never more than 8 on summit. The server tickrate was at a steady 30.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Which server? As I've had the 10FPS issue on EPIC, but that one German server (goes of the check the name: Heidis Ziegenfarm 1 (HBZ)) it was a good and steady 20+
Multiple games to test during today and last evening (build185 release). Quite odd...
Yea i just confirmed this, in the ready room, ull be fine and get normal FPS, but when u join a team or spectator, u drop down to 10-15 fps (where i normally get 3x this). Just had this happen on the anagram server, something is definitely funky with this build thats causing these massive performance issues. And its not because of too many objects or players. Everyone in the game experienced this exact same thing. Wasnt just 1 machine. Even after the game ended, the problem stayed. However, when i found another server, performance went back to normal. Something weird is goin on here.
Its weird though. if you watch ns2hd 185 internal playtest, it played quite smoothly. Perhaps its a server side mod like gmovermind which is having problems with new build?
<!--quoteo(post=1871617:date=Aug 28 2011, 04:41 AM:name=elodea)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elodea @ Aug 28 2011, 04:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1871617"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Its weird though. if you watch ns2hd 185 internal playtest, it played quite smoothly. Perhaps its a server side mod like gmovermind which is having problems with new build?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe but not GMOvermind it runs on HBZ.
It is weird. Hope UWE finds the, hopfully easy to patch, problem!
@Wilson502 I know that the server only uses 1 Core but the Client supports Multithreading.
I didn't notice any fps difference, tickrates gets bad (5-10) when the game progress however, but that's not new. Maybe it's hardware specific ? Or os.
The frame rate in this build sucks! In build 184 I was getting 60 to 80 frames per second on Maximum settings, but now in build 185 I am lucky if I get 17 to 25 frames per second... on the lowest settings, with lower resolution and bloom turned off.
There is a serious major bug in this build with the frame rate...
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1871699:date=Aug 28 2011, 06:47 PM:name=PersianImm0rtal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PersianImm0rtal @ Aug 28 2011, 06:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1871699"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->but now in build 185 I am lucky if I get 17 to 25 frames per second...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oi that's why I've been playin' with all the time since alpha dammit :D, welcome to my world!
Seems like I'm the one with the good luck (or rather least amount of bad luck) this time around, I'm measuring an FPS-drop of about 20-25%, thankfully not quite as drastic as the 100-300% described here.
AsranielJoin Date: 2002-06-03Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
The fps drops come from the new movement/prediction code. The lower the server tickrate, the more does the client have to predict. Since prediction became slower, your fps will drop.
Current solution? Only play on fast servers (high tickrate).
<!--quoteo(post=1871654:date=Aug 28 2011, 08:09 AM:name=Sturmf4lke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sturmf4lke @ Aug 28 2011, 08:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1871654"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->for me this has nothing to do with the server ..... even on HBZ, atm rly the strongest server in EU, my FPS dropped due to 50% from 184.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes theres been a general overall performance decrease with this patch, i do agree. I was posting earlier about a specific server side bug that makes all clients that connect play at the same low frame rate. Hence the 10 fps bug name that i threw out there.
<!--quoteo(post=1871712:date=Aug 28 2011, 12:22 PM:name=Asraniel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Asraniel @ Aug 28 2011, 12:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1871712"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The fps drops come from the new movement/prediction code. The lower the server tickrate, the more does the client have to predict. Since prediction became slower, your fps will drop.
Current solution? Only play on fast servers (high tickrate).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So your saying the collision issues Max tried to fix by predicting client-wise are causing these fps drops? Sounds plausible, but would that mean in order to get the better frame rates we had in 184 we'll have to tolerate the collision spazzing issues we used to have too? or at least until a better algorithm for predicting player movements is made?
<!--quoteo(post=1871715:date=Aug 28 2011, 07:33 PM:name=Heroman117)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Heroman117 @ Aug 28 2011, 07:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1871715"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So your saying the collision issues Max tried to fix by predicting client-wise are causing these fps drops? Sounds plausible, but would that mean in order to get the better frame rates we had in 184 we'll have to tolerate the collision spazzing issues we used to have too? or at least until a better algorithm for predicting player movements is made?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, Max made some big network changes, as part of fixing the collision issues. They will result in much more accurate client-side prediction in general, which is a good thing for the game overall. However, as a consequence, he knew the client performance was going to suffer a bit in the short term, and the decrease will be greater the larger your ping is, so it will be especially noticeable on lower performing servers.
It is just a step along the way of making the game better and smoother, and sometimes you have to take a step back to take 2 steps forward. There are plenty of other ways to make up the frame rate drop on the client, with other planned optimizations, so we won't have to go back to the poor pre 185 collision, don't worry.
Having this issue as well. I should probably state that my first game (HBZ, right after 185 release) was really smooth, however the next day I had awful FPS on any server I joined.
yea, the admins need to restart the server when that happens vic..... we should let the admins of the servers be aware of that when players start experiencing that.
QuovatisTeam InversionJoin Date: 2010-01-26Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited August 2011
Yikes. I'd much rather put up with the collision issues than the massive FPS drop we see in 185. In 184 I was getting 60 FPS. It's now in the 30-40 FPS range. I have a high-end machine, but I know many that simply can't play now because their FPS is so low.
This is severely hurting the competitive NS2 scene, as it's basically unplayable due to low FPS now. Server performance is also down from 184.
I am from Argentina so my ping is huge, can play very well with 60fps average in 184. but now in 185 is very unplayable with 30 or less fps. sometimes 20 - 15.
<!--quoteo(post=1871882:date=Aug 29 2011, 05:19 PM:name=Quovatis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quovatis @ Aug 29 2011, 05:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1871882"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yikes. I'd much rather put up with the collision issues than the massive FPS drop we see in 185. In 184 I was getting 60 FPS. It's now in the 30-40 FPS range. I have a high-end machine, but I know many that simply can't play now because their FPS is so low.
This is severely hurting the competitive NS2 scene, as it's basically unplayable due to low FPS now. Server performance is also down from 184.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Its not a choice between bad collision or bad framerate. The changes we made were necessary to make the game better in the long run, and that is our goal here. We would love to have the game playing smoothly at this point in the beta, but we are focused on making the game playable and polished on release, so we are not going to hold back on making big engine changes, or gameplay changes, in order to avoid hurting the competitive scene, which really isn't going to take off anyway until much closer to release when more of the game is finalized.
<!--quoteo(post=1871901:date=Aug 29 2011, 02:47 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Aug 29 2011, 02:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1871901"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Its not a choice between bad collision or bad framerate. The changes we made were necessary to make the game better in the long run, and that is our goal here. We would love to have the game playing smoothly at this point in the beta, but we are focused on making the game playable and polished on release, so we are not going to hold back on making big engine changes, or gameplay changes, in order to avoid hurting the competitive scene, which really isn't going to take off anyway until much closer to release when more of the game is finalized.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Phew at least the devs know what they're doing and not falling victim to nonsense.
<!--quoteo(post=1871901:date=Aug 29 2011, 01:47 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Aug 29 2011, 01:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1871901"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Its not a choice between bad collision or bad framerate. The changes we made were necessary to make the game better in the long run, and that is our goal here. We would love to have the game playing smoothly at this point in the beta, but we are focused on making the game playable and polished on release, so we are not going to hold back on making big engine changes, or gameplay changes, in order to avoid hurting the competitive scene, which really isn't going to take off anyway until much closer to release when more of the game is finalized.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> In other words be patient guys, they are working on it.
In my readings " come back after 3 month"! optimizing the server and client side code is not a weekend work. The game is unplayable for me right now, so i just hope UWE got the talent, and resources for this task.
<!--quoteo(post=1871948:date=Aug 29 2011, 11:58 PM:name=Hapika)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hapika @ Aug 29 2011, 11:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1871948"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In my readings " come back after 3 month"! optimizing the server and client side code is not a weekend work. The game is unplayable for me right now, so i just hope UWE got the talent, and resources for this task.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
oldassgamersJoin Date: 2011-02-02Member: 80033Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
edited August 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1871719:date=Aug 28 2011, 08:55 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Aug 28 2011, 08:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1871719"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes, Max made some big network changes, as part of fixing the collision issues. They will result in much more accurate client-side prediction in general, which is a good thing for the game overall. However, as a consequence, he knew the client performance was going to suffer a bit in the short term, and the decrease will be greater the larger your ping is, so it will be especially noticeable on lower performing servers.
It is just a step along the way of making the game better and smoother, and sometimes you have to take a step back to take 2 steps forward. There are plenty of other ways to make up the frame rate drop on the client, with other planned optimizations, so we won't have to go back to the poor pre 185 collision, don't worry.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Let me correct it for you cory. Don't take it personal. I've been watching UWE progress for almost 2 years of now.
UWE have taken one step back and a half step forward. Then you'll go left and right. Over & Over again. Meaning that you're confused and lack focus.
<!--quoteo(post=1872064:date=Aug 30 2011, 06:28 AM:name=oldassgamers)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (oldassgamers @ Aug 30 2011, 06:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1872064"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->UWE have taken one step back and a half step forward. Then you'll go left and right. Over & Over again. Meaning that you're confused and lack focus.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not really in regards to the engine coding. Seems most stuff has been pretty straightforward, often features are revisited and improved, but this is one of the few cases performance has clearly taken a hit from some new engine code.
When it comes to game play yeah there's less focus but its mainly because even though most of the game has already been planned out, once new features go in, there is often things that don't work as expected and need modification from the original plan (fade blink changes, lots of lerk revision, leap changes etc). There's also been many cases where it was new game play features causing the performance issues (most recent example would be overhead associated with early pustule implementation). And let's not forget the first NS was up to version 3.0+ before it had been considered 'done' from a game play perspective.
Anyways I'd love to see some improvements to occlusion and particle systems. There are a lot of people who are experiencing over half the map rendering after playing for a few minutes (affects me too). Seems when too much of the map renders garbage collection kicks in full force and the client rate drops hard. I know something has been in the works for a while now so hopefully it goes in soon.
<!--quoteo(post=1872064:date=Aug 30 2011, 12:28 PM:name=oldassgamers)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (oldassgamers @ Aug 30 2011, 12:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1872064"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Let me correct it for you cory. Don't take it personal. I've been watching UWE progress for almost 2 years of now.
UWE have taken one step back and a half step forward. Then you'll go left and right. Over & Over again. Meaning that you're confused and lack focus.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Don't call me out by name, say something completely unfounded, untrue, and insulting, and then say "don't take it personal". That does not make your thoughtless post any more acceptable. If you lack the understanding of what goes into game development, then ask questions respectfully, and we'll do our best to inform you.
Comments
Which server? As I've had the 10FPS issue on EPIC, but that one German server (goes of the check the name: Heidis Ziegenfarm 1 (HBZ)) it was a good and steady 20+
Multiple games to test during today and last evening (build185 release). Quite odd...
=(
Maybe but not GMOvermind it runs on HBZ.
It is weird. Hope UWE finds the, hopfully easy to patch, problem!
@Wilson502
I know that the server only uses 1 Core but the Client supports Multithreading.
There is a serious major bug in this build with the frame rate...
:[
Oi that's why I've been playin' with all the time since alpha dammit :D, welcome to my world!
Seriously though, some odd is happening...
Since prediction became slower, your fps will drop.
Current solution? Only play on fast servers (high tickrate).
Yes theres been a general overall performance decrease with this patch, i do agree. I was posting earlier about a specific server side bug that makes all clients that connect play at the same low frame rate. Hence the 10 fps bug name that i threw out there.
Since prediction became slower, your fps will drop.
Current solution? Only play on fast servers (high tickrate).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So your saying the collision issues Max tried to fix by predicting client-wise are causing these fps drops? Sounds plausible, but would that mean in order to get the better frame rates we had in 184 we'll have to tolerate the collision spazzing issues we used to have too? or at least until a better algorithm for predicting player movements is made?
Yes, Max made some big network changes, as part of fixing the collision issues. They will result in much more accurate client-side prediction in general, which is a good thing for the game overall. However, as a consequence, he knew the client performance was going to suffer a bit in the short term, and the decrease will be greater the larger your ping is, so it will be especially noticeable on lower performing servers.
It is just a step along the way of making the game better and smoother, and sometimes you have to take a step back to take 2 steps forward. There are plenty of other ways to make up the frame rate drop on the client, with other planned optimizations, so we won't have to go back to the poor pre 185 collision, don't worry.
--Cory
This is severely hurting the competitive NS2 scene, as it's basically unplayable due to low FPS now. Server performance is also down from 184.
but now in 185 is very unplayable with 30 or less fps. sometimes 20 - 15.
This is severely hurting the competitive NS2 scene, as it's basically unplayable due to low FPS now. Server performance is also down from 184.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its not a choice between bad collision or bad framerate. The changes we made were necessary to make the game better in the long run, and that is our goal here. We would love to have the game playing smoothly at this point in the beta, but we are focused on making the game playable and polished on release, so we are not going to hold back on making big engine changes, or gameplay changes, in order to avoid hurting the competitive scene, which really isn't going to take off anyway until much closer to release when more of the game is finalized.
--Cory
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Phew at least the devs know what they're doing and not falling victim to nonsense.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In other words be patient guys, they are working on it.
optimizing the server and client side code is not a weekend work. The game is unplayable for me right now, so i just hope UWE got the talent, and resources for this task.
optimizing the server and client side code is not a weekend work. The game is unplayable for me right now, so i just hope UWE got the talent, and resources for this task.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is just a step along the way of making the game better and smoother, and sometimes you have to take a step back to take 2 steps forward. There are plenty of other ways to make up the frame rate drop on the client, with other planned optimizations, so we won't have to go back to the poor pre 185 collision, don't worry.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Let me correct it for you cory. Don't take it personal. I've been watching UWE progress for almost 2 years of now.
UWE have taken one step back and a half step forward. Then you'll go left and right. Over & Over again. Meaning that you're confused and lack focus.
Not really in regards to the engine coding. Seems most stuff has been pretty straightforward, often features are revisited and improved, but this is one of the few cases performance has clearly taken a hit from some new engine code.
When it comes to game play yeah there's less focus but its mainly because even though most of the game has already been planned out, once new features go in, there is often things that don't work as expected and need modification from the original plan (fade blink changes, lots of lerk revision, leap changes etc). There's also been many cases where it was new game play features causing the performance issues (most recent example would be overhead associated with early pustule implementation). And let's not forget the first NS was up to version 3.0+ before it had been considered 'done' from a game play perspective.
Anyways I'd love to see some improvements to occlusion and particle systems. There are a lot of people who are experiencing over half the map rendering after playing for a few minutes (affects me too). Seems when too much of the map renders garbage collection kicks in full force and the client rate drops hard. I know something has been in the works for a while now so hopefully it goes in soon.
UWE have taken one step back and a half step forward. Then you'll go left and right. Over & Over again. Meaning that you're confused and lack focus.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't call me out by name, say something completely unfounded, untrue, and insulting, and then say "don't take it personal". That does not make your thoughtless post any more acceptable. If you lack the understanding of what goes into game development, then ask questions respectfully, and we'll do our best to inform you.
--Cory