Armory and Armor
Floodinator
[HBZ] Member Join Date: 2005-02-22 Member: 42087Members, Reinforced - Shadow
[HBZ] Member Join Date: 2005-02-22 Member: 42087Members, Reinforced - Shadow
<div class="IPBDescription">Should the Armory really weld Marines</div>I want to bring up a discussion about the Armory.
I often see on pub that as soon as a Marine get attacked the run (f.e from dc to ms) to the next armory getting healed and welded. A group of 4 rines gets down to 2 rines because of those running backs.
Sometimes you go as a Group somwhere and after the attack all or almost all run back and the aliens can retake teritory. Its hard to be a rine that stays there alone awayting the revenge of the skulks, while the others run back.
I sure the teamplay will increase if only the rines can weld eachother. They need to play atleast with another rine and ramboes can get punished by the team by not getting welded so they may be forced to teamplay.
Also a model for welding is needed because pressing E ain't intuitive to new players. If there is a model of something like a welder they will atleast ask the other players what is it for.
I often see on pub that as soon as a Marine get attacked the run (f.e from dc to ms) to the next armory getting healed and welded. A group of 4 rines gets down to 2 rines because of those running backs.
Sometimes you go as a Group somwhere and after the attack all or almost all run back and the aliens can retake teritory. Its hard to be a rine that stays there alone awayting the revenge of the skulks, while the others run back.
I sure the teamplay will increase if only the rines can weld eachother. They need to play atleast with another rine and ramboes can get punished by the team by not getting welded so they may be forced to teamplay.
Also a model for welding is needed because pressing E ain't intuitive to new players. If there is a model of something like a welder they will atleast ask the other players what is it for.
Comments
You have a similar "issue" with the aliens, but they can't fix each other up unless one of them is a Gorge - and even then some aliens run back to the hive to heal instead.
However I don't think removing it is the right approach to take. Rather have the other option you mentioned with a distractive icon/model on marines with damaged armor.
I doubt all marines would weld each other up in pubs though, even with the flashy icon.
Brink did this for ammo and health.
An icon would show up on your buddy.
Indicating what key to press
and you would be rewarded with a bunch of swirling sprites when you did it correctly.
<a href="http://static.gamesradar.com/images/mb/GamesRadar/us/Games/B/Brink/Everything%20else/Super%20review/Buff_river--article_image.jpg" target="_blank">http://static.gamesradar.com/images/mb/Gam...ticle_image.jpg</a>
It was a simplistic mechanism that actually worked in pub play.
I don't think giving automatic updates be helpful (more annoying) to the com, but maybe if the notifications told him, who specifically needs health and ammo? I've found that as playing com if you click the button to focus on the marine who needs help, they sometimes turn out to be dead by the time you get there... If it was to say who specifically needs help, you can at least check the death messages.
Did you even read what I wrote?....
I often see on pub that as soon as a Marine get attacked the run (f.e from dc to ms) to the next armory getting healed and welded. A group of 4 rines gets down to 2 rines because of those running backs.
Sometimes you go as a Group somwhere and after the attack all or almost all run back and the aliens can retake teritory. Its hard to be a rine that stays there alone awayting the revenge of the skulks, while the others run back.
I sure the teamplay will increase if only the rines can weld eachother. They need to play atleast with another rine and ramboes can get punished by the team by not getting welded so they may be forced to teamplay.
Also a model for welding is needed because pressing E ain't intuitive to new players. If there is a model of something like a welder they will atleast ask the other players what is it for.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How about you weld those 2 Marines which will eliminate them having to run back...
Having a model will create a delay between welding/shooting (having to have the 2 models transition from 1 another).
The way I see it, no actions should be automatic unless it involves structure abilities. And even if that were the case, team welding is a rather powerful mechanic if actually attended to by a team. There is an immediate reward for actually taking the time to weld a team mate, so instead I think it should be our jobs as players to inform and encourages others to weld, rather than having the game hold our hands.
Then i guess every form of alien auto-heal should be removed.
Having a model will create a delay between welding/shooting (having to have the 2 models transition from 1 another).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ever tryed to weld a running Marine? Even caling the name wont stop em from running to the next armory...
As an injured person, I can do nothin to get healed from a teammate.
As a teammate, I can be at full health but I'm the one who has to do the healing.
The reason the injured people run back is because they want to do something to get health back, the thought is 'I'm injured, I'll go get health' which is not something you can really change.
If you want people to stay with the group, you need to make it so that it's advantageous to stay with the group. If you're carrying a relatively expensive gun and are close to death, it is entirely against your interest to stay with the group and die, so someone else can steal your gun.
Find some way to make staying with the group a safer alternative to running back to an armory, and you'll solve the problem, until then you are going to end up with people doing it quite a lot.
He probably just read this:
I sure the teamplay will increase if only the rines can weld each other.
In a good forum post the first sentence after a break should say in short what the lines until the next break should say. And your first sentence said exactly the opposite. That is why he got confused ;-)
Indeed I did and came to the conclusion that you said its ingame and I concur... No need to detract from the game due to newbies running back to base. A game should never be balanced around pubplay...
All it needs is a better visual indicator...
The bigger issue is when you go up to someone to weld you both collide and get sent 10 ft up in the air, then can't find each other, and have to do it all over again. Hopefully this will be fixed in 185 as UWE said it might be.
But the welding in general is fine now. It's a placeholder for an actual welder, and I'm fine with that for now.
as for pushing E on each other, that is such dumb thing. I actually hope its placeholder for the actual welder, which should NOT be given to all marines by default.
Not to mention the joy of having to ask someone else to heal my armor and hoping they have a welder otherwise I'm entirely screwed when it comes to field repairs.
I really don't get why some people are suggesting that the best way to encourage teamwork is to troll players into oblivion by making everything as difficult as possible to do by yourself.
Shooting a roomful of people in the kneecaps will not engender a sense of team spirit and convince them to work together, it'll leave you with a room full of people who hate you and your stupid game, because it's you as the game designer who are forcing them into this crappy situation in which they suck horribly at everything, not the enemy team.
And if everyone hates your game, they'll go play another one. Games are supposed to be fun, not character building exercises.
its not about what's more convenient, its about bring back what's needed in a game. But you had problems using welder in ns1, enjoy pushing E now.
And why exactly does the welder need to be a separate, purchseable, selectable weapon?
Let's consider, what is the net effect of this?
1. Welding prevents you from doing other things.
2. There is a limited capacity of welding which can be done per player in the squad, because x amount of weld power is spread over y marines on average.
3. Welding comes in slightly later in the game.
4. You can see when someone is welding.
So, taking these four premises, let's replace the old welder with a new one, which is purely a visual effect, is activated by holding E on a weldable surface, it lowers your weapon much like building does, it has a reduced welding speed compared to the old welder, and is unlocked for all marines after a simple research.
The net effect of this is:
1. Welding prevents you from doing other things.
2. There is a limited capacity of welding which can be done per player in the squad, because x amount of weld power is spread over y marines on average.
3. Welding comes in slightly later in the game.
4. You can see when someone is welding.
5. It is consistent with all other mechanics in the game, whereby holding E on an unbuilt structure fills up its HP and E is used as the general 'interaction' button.
6. It is far more streamlined than the other approach from a player perspective.
7. It makes teamwork far easier, as if you need a player to weld, you can be sure that if you have a welder, so do they, and if you don't have a welder, neither do they, thereby enhancing players' understanding of their teammates.
8. It frees a weapon slot you can use for something else.
Which of these is the superior method?
Having only select marines who choice to buy this weapon would promote far better teamwork rather then every marine having this by default. (class roles)
as I said before I hope its just placeholder, like many other things in the game now.
Having only select marines who choice to buy this weapon would promote far better teamwork rather then every marine having this by default. (class roles)
as I said before I hope its just placeholder, like many other things in the game now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You keep saying that but you don't give any sort of reasoning as to why it is the case.
Repeatedly yelling something doesn't make it so, unfortunately. I've tried doing it, doesn't work.
I don't see how it's any dumber than changing weapon and holding mouse1. They could even make a welder model come up when you press e.
I'm having an idea about this: We already have hit indications coded in. Wouldn't be much of a work to make the arrow green to show heal / armor restore. would also be useful for aliens
Most of the time I need to type and tell ppl to weld me, or hear a person telling me to weld him, with that option it would be way more comfy.
And, of course a visual effect on a marine with low armor is needed too, but not too cartoonish.
Marines are wearing this stuff which is kinda brings all the info right in their eyes, so visual on a low armor marine is very natural and explainable.