Hive specialities
subshadow
Join Date: 2003-04-21 Member: 15710Members
Join Date: 2003-04-21 Member: 15710Members
It would be cool to have different perks to each specialised hive. (the chamber it's connected to)
First of all, a crag hive should have more health, a shade hive should always be cloaked (unless attacked), a shift hive should generate more energy (for building drifters and infest).
Second, maybe these hives should also be able to launch the triggerable ability the connected chamber has (umbra/cloak/...)
Third, the most difficult for the developer team: create 3 specialised models for the hives.
I can imagine the crag hive to have large armor plating on the sides, protecting his weak belly.
The shade hive should become more transparent, with maybe a more blue-ish tone, more tendrils hanging off from the top,....
The shift hive: -not really an idea for the looks of it- Maybe a slower version of the burning animation (so it looks like a very active, energetic hive) combined with being slimmer, higher off the ground or swinging to the sides a bit.
First of all, a crag hive should have more health, a shade hive should always be cloaked (unless attacked), a shift hive should generate more energy (for building drifters and infest).
Second, maybe these hives should also be able to launch the triggerable ability the connected chamber has (umbra/cloak/...)
Third, the most difficult for the developer team: create 3 specialised models for the hives.
I can imagine the crag hive to have large armor plating on the sides, protecting his weak belly.
The shade hive should become more transparent, with maybe a more blue-ish tone, more tendrils hanging off from the top,....
The shift hive: -not really an idea for the looks of it- Maybe a slower version of the burning animation (so it looks like a very active, energetic hive) combined with being slimmer, higher off the ground or swinging to the sides a bit.
Comments
Not a fan of triggerable abilities, but I like the passive ability idea.
Only a problem, there is no use of cloaking the shade hive, as the di is still visible. I think that a better passive ability could be the shades passive ability that distorts marine vision (the ability shouldnt affect sound like that imho).
<ol type='1'><li><b>Passive traits:</b> What effects the Hive will have on nearby alien structures and players (e.g. increased attack damage).</li><li><b>Spawn traits:</b> How the eggs around the Hive are effected (turn invisible, shorter re-spawn time etc), aliens evolving close by would also be effected.</li><li><b>Base traits:</b> How the Hive it'self is changed (e.g. more resistant to damage).</li></ol>
Following this formula, I have conjured up what, in my mind a specialized Hive's attributes could be:
<u><b>Crag Hive:</b></u>
<b>Passive traits:</b> The Hive could heal nearby alien players and structures much like the Crag, along with slightly increasing their health and armour. This extra amount of protection would gradually diminish when the affected entity is no longer within the Hive's effective radius, and would gradually increase if said entity re-entered the Hive's radius. The Hive could be capable of simultaneously healing more units than a Crag.
<b>Spawn traits:</b> Eggs have increased health (and possibly a layer of armour), making them stronger. Aliens that hatch could have a momentary boost in health and armour.
<b>Base traits:</b> The Hive would be able to reinforce it's self with extra health and armour. A Crag Hive could also automatically regenerate after it has stopped taking damage for an amount of time.
<u><b>Shade Hive:</b></u>
<b>Passive traits:</b> The Shade Hive would cloak nearby alien players and structures, these entities would then turn visible if; a marine strayed too close, the cloaked entity suffered damage, the cloaked entity moved out of the Hive's range, or the cloaked entity attacked or performed other certain actions (a Gorge using Heal Spry, a Crag using Umbra etc). The cloaking effect would be gradual and not instantaneous, the Hive would not be able to cloak it'self.
<b>Spawn traits:</b> Egg spawn locations would be randomized. The eggs would also cloak, remaining cloaked until a Frontiersman made direct physical contact with one.
<b>Base traits:</b> The Shade Hive could cause an EMP effect that would cause the Hive and anything in it's surrounding area to be undetectable to the marine commander, the marine commander would instead see static interference when panning over the area that the Shade Hive is situated. The Hive and surrounding area of effect would be unscannable. The Marine commander would be unable to place down buildings, power packs, health kits and ammo near the Hive. The only way the Marine commander could detect the Hive and any alien structures or players under it's effects, would be if Frontiersmen on the ground could gain line of sight on any of the structures.
<u><b>Shift Hive:</b></u>
<b>Passive traits:</b> Alien players near the Hive would have an increase in attack speed, movement speed and a faster adrenaline recharge rate. Structures that are close to the Hive would build and gain energy at a faster pace, along with performing their passive ability (Heal, lash etc) at a faster rate.
<b>Spawn traits:</b> More eggs would spawn with eggs and the Aliens inside them spawning at a faster pace. Alien players would also have the choice to prematurely hatch from their eggs when spawning/evolving. A player that would normally wait 13 seconds could instead choose to spawn in 6 seconds, halving his/her re-spawn time. However, the player would spawn half undeveloped, with only half their health, armour and attack damage. Eventually, their stats would slowly increase to normal standards.
<b>Base traits:</b> The Shift Hive could have some kind of a teleportation ability. An alien player could enter the Hive and transition into a third perspective view that is similar from the commander view but separate, meaning that the player would not be able to interfere with the Commander. From here the alien could then choose to teleport to any place on the map that is occupied by infestation. This would obviously be a one way trip and would cost a fair amount of Pres. Any number of players could teleport at any time to any destination, this means that three players could enter the Hive at the same time (whilst it is occupied by a commander), with each player then teleporting to their own destinations with the Hive experiencing no cool-down effect. To avoid scenarios where players stack and hide inside their Hive, players could have a five second limit, at which point they are teleported to a random location, this would cost even more Pres as an extra deterrent.
Spawn and Base traits would also be upgrades that would need to be researched from their respective Hives.
+1
As for the shade distortions minus the sound distort being suggested by Feha, I don't think it'll be worth it. It'll end up being that the shade hive is the least helpful to defense even with the sound distort.
While it's rather annoying at first, I admittedly loved the fact it kills communication with those sound distortions.. that part of it actually impairs you. Though since some people will just use vent or mumble, so that ruins that part being useful.
The visual ripples don't really do anything useful at least to me, I barely even notice it after a while, I'd generally rather the passive was a cloak for static objects at least for the shade, maybe get it to hide DI as well. It's the only effect that cant be mostly ignored, well, aside from with a good scanning, but that's at least within the constraints of the game and costs something.
Specialized hives would make gameplay much more intense. More though would have to be put into what chamber would be dropped first.
Secondly, with specialized hives, marines will be able to tell which hive each chamber is linked to. More strategy will have to be put into which hive they should take down.
@kurrine, I suppose that you are right, distortion is simply annoying (especially the sound distortion, atleast the visual can be mostly ignored).
I was thinking that the shade is the tech that helps during combat the least, it is for sneaking past defences or getting that perfect ambush. Therefor the distortion effect would be a good choice, as it is mostly useless. If it cloaks aliens nearby, they will have to easy to kill attacking marines.
But your idea that it cloaks static buildings is good. Maybe actually even let it cloak aliens that dont move (much like the upgrade). This would give the hive a nice and usefull ability, but once the marines know where the defence is, they just have to fire at the same place to bring it visible again.
A passive cloak is one possible way in making the inadequate whip a useful contributor, though making them tougher would partially help I guess, I'm not sold on the barrage attack or however it's called, yet. But then I've only tested an attempt at it on the PT mod.
Nobody ever likes my ideas ಥ_ಥ
on a more serious note, when i say that each Hive would have three different perks, i didn't mean that each specialized Hive would be limited to only one perk at a time, each Hive would perform all three abilities simultaneously, I only categorized them into three sections to make it easier to explain. Or was it each Hive having three abilities each that put you off my idea, does it seem a bit overbearing?
<ul><li>Having several abilities per hive means that it is not as easy to decide on the abilities, as having more means that it is harder to balance them.</li><li>Each hive are not as unique as I would prefer, as in your idea each of them would basically do the same thing. Sure, the effect they have on things are different, but they still act in the same way (except for that "base trait")</li><li>Some of your "Base Traits" are triggered abilities, I think that such abilities should be avoided if possible (the micromanaging can get tedious).</li><li>Some of your suggested abilities is also bad because they would mean removing functionality that already exist from the other hives (or a lame boost on the hive). Example would be your crag hive healing nearby stuff (all hives already does that). And that crag hives regen (again, all hives already does that)</li><li>Or they are simply bad ideas, such as shade hive cloaking everything like a shade would, or that shade hives randomize egg locations (there is a reason uwe stopped doing that).</li><li>I think that one ability per hive is more apparent (beginner-friendly) and easier to both come up with a really good idea and implement it very well.</li></ul>
Could do with a little more fleshing out but in general it's a great concept.
<ul><li>Having several abilities per hive means that it is not as easy to decide on the abilities, as having more means that it is harder to balance them.</li><li>Each hive are not as unique as I would prefer, as in your idea each of them would basically do the same thing. Sure, the effect they have on things are different, but they still act in the same way (except for that "base trait")</li><li>Some of your "Base Traits" are triggered abilities, I think that such abilities should be avoided if possible (the micromanaging can get tedious).</li><li>Some of your suggested abilities is also bad because they would mean removing functionality that already exist from the other hives (or a lame boost on the hive). Example would be your crag hive healing nearby stuff (all hives already does that). And that crag hives regen (again, all hives already does that)</li><li>Or they are simply bad ideas, such as shade hive cloaking everything like a shade would, or that shade hives randomize egg locations (there is a reason uwe stopped doing that).</li><li>I think that one ability per hive is more apparent (beginner-friendly) and easier to both come up with a really good idea and implement it very well.</li></ul><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fair, valid points my good friend. It would be more imaginative if they had their own unique abilities as opposed to having different variations of the same thing. After thinking about this subject further, giving Hives abilities that are similar or identical to the structures they are specialized after (a Hive that cloaks or heals aliens) should be avoided, as this would undermine said structures making them less useful. I also agree with you on not giving Hives triggered abilities, though I assure you that none of the abilities and traits I described were triggered abilities.
The visual changes on the hives would be a cool addition, but something like that is low priority since there has to be done alot more other stuff.
Here are my suggestions:
<b>Crag Hive:</b>
Hive Hitpoints increased
Eggs have more health, armoured model to show this
<b>Shade Hive:</b>
Hive regen rate increased
Eggs are cloaked
<b>Shift Hive:</b>
Hive energy rate increased
Eggs randomly move, or shift about (not too sure about this, but it's the only thing I could think of)
Definitely having a benefit other than the actual chamber would give the game more depth. Not 100% sold on the eggs, as the shift one doesn't really fit, perhaps if they move to another hive when they get attacked?
The Crag Hive would be based on durability and resistance to damage:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hive Hitpoints increased
Eggs have more health, armoured model to show this<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Basically this, along with having a slight increase to damage resistance.
Another cool feature could be eggs giving friendly units close by a small heal when they are destroyed (players, structures and even the Hive itself).
The Shift Hive would be based on speed and maneuverability:
The Shift Hive could spawn more eggs than the other Hives, allowing more aliens to spawn at one time. e.g. A normal level 1 Hive would have three eggs, were as a level 1 Shift Hive could have five. The overall re-spawn time would also be slightly reduced.
structures nearby could build faster and gain energy faster <u><b>(maybe)</b></u>.
The Shade Hive would be based on stealth and deceit:
The Shade Hive could create an EMP effect that would hamper the Marine Commander's sight. This could mean that when the Shade Hive is scanned, the Hive and an amount of the area surrounding it would appear as static to the Marine Commander. Otherwise the Shade Hive could instead stop the Commander from scanning it's area altogether. This would mean that the only way for the commander to see the Hive and anything near it, would be to have a Frontiersman on the ground gain direct line of sight.
The Hive would also prevent the Commander from dropping med packs, ammo and buildings near it.
I don't think that the Shade Hive should cloak friendlies, as this would undermine one of the Shade's abilities. However the Hive could distract marines by creating fake eggs that would be illusions. (not sure, as the Shade might also do something similar).
It should just cloak eggs, close proximity pustules and structures.
The visual disruption put on marines by the shade would be utilised by the hive to a much larger radius as well.
It should just cloak eggs, close proximity pustules and structures.
The visual disruption put on marines by the shade would be utilised by the hive to a much larger radius as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I do not believe that the Shade Hive should cloak structures because the Shade structure already does this, nor should the Hive disrupt a Frontiersmen's vision for the same reason. Giving a Hive the same abilities as the structures they are specialized after results in said structures becoming less useful, possibly to the point that a Crag or a Shade is constructed only for the upgrades they provide. The Shade Hive needs to do something that the Shade doesn't, such as neutering the Marine commander's ability to reinforce his squad to a certain degree.
Your probably right about the Hive's EMP being overpowered, not extremely but still...
How about this? The Hive is detectable to the commander when scanned, but any structure or alien that is very close to the Hive is still invisible to the commander. This does NOT mean that said structures and aliens are physically cloaked, which means that a marine can still see them, (and so would the Commander if said marine gained line of sight). This slightly limits the Commander's ability to warn his squad mates about what there running into.
I also standby my idea to make it impossible for the Commander to place ammo, med packs and buildings too close to the Hive because of it's EMP ability, this would force marines to pull back slightly if they want a boost in health or ammo. This gives the player a choice, keep up the attack without the support of his/her commander, or pull back slightly to restock on health and ammo but consequently giving the aliens a small amount of time to recuperate.
Obviously these effects wouldn't cover an entire area or room, that would be too overpowered.
<u>Crag Hive:</u> Eggs are simply tougher
<u>Shade Hive:</u> Additional Phantasm Eggs. They "pop" (fade blink effect like) when scanned or "killed"
<u>Shift Hive:</u> More Eggs spawn and faster
I think the benefits are all equal (if numbers are correct) and would underline the play style further when choosing a chamber. I don't like somehow the other passive bonuses. Don't like it that 1 hive would be tougher, harder to kill than others. That takes away strategic decisions on the marine side, since you would for example always attack the shade hive before the crag or shift hive. even if those hives are balanced, people will develop one favored strategy which will be seen as "best" (like in NS1 MC first)